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Dateline NBC tonight, 9pm E.T with Rabbi Boteach's tapes

mjjfan4ever said:
men of faith betrayed michael....
loved one's betrayed michael.....
employee's betrayed michael.....
friends betrayed michael.....
the media abused and maligned michael every chance they got.....
people made fun of michael....

and yet the media and many people can't understand why michael retreated to mannequins? why michael was reclusive?

then for the rabbi to say.... "how can this man have left his children orphaned??

HE WAS MURDERED.... YOU SORRY PIECE OF SH**.............

I'd prefer to go to hell than have a SPIRITUAL ADVISOR the likes of rabbi, chopra, and any other men of faith.... who can readily be so JUDGMENTAL.

Someone needs to tell the RABBI he is in the wrong profession.
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Superstition said:
Homicide is not always murder. Why don't you keep your theory about Murray being a murderer in the investigative threads. As it stands, Jackson's death was ruled a homicide, which is death at the hands of another. Homicide can describe manslaughter, wrecklessness or one of any other things.
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obviously, if i wanted to argue or discuss the issues surrounding mj's death and my theories about that subject i would have posted in the investigative thread.

why don't you read the entire post before you click the submit button.

in case my point about that wasn't clear.... i was trying to say to the rabbi.... mj did not die because he no longer had the WILL to live.. which is the inference and accusation the rabbi has made.
 
Unfortunately, I did buy the book, but Michael grew a lot since then. I believe he had the will to live again and he did not commit suicide. This was the only way he knew how to sleep (so he thought) and with Dr. no morals or ethics something terrible happened. Some will say he is partically to blame. I get that,BUT didn't he pay the ultimate price his life. He is not the only one to blame. Stopping blaming him. If he was an addict, he was sick and doctors should know better. There should be a difference between a Doctor and a dope dealer in this case there isn't.
 
ensleyave said:
Unfortunately, I did buy the book, but Michael grew a lot since then. I believe he had the will to live again and he did not commit suicide. This was the only way he knew how to sleep (so he thought) and with Dr. no morals or ethics something terrible happened. Some will say he is partically to blame. I get that,BUT didn't he pay the ultimate price his life. He is not the only one to blame. Stopping blaming him. If he was an addict, he was sick and doctors should know better. There should be a difference between a Doctor and a dope dealer in this case there isn't.
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Might as well ask for a refund. Who needs to read that piece of trash?
 
mjjfan4ever said:
obviously, if i wanted to argue or discuss the issues surrounding mj's death and my theories about that subject i would have posted in the investigative thread.

why don't you read the entire post before you click the submit button.

in case my point about that wasn't clear.... i was trying to say to the rabbi.... mj did not die because he no longer had the WILL to live.. which is the inference and accusation the rabbi has made.
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I read your post. My point stands. I don't disagree entirely with what you say about the rabbi, but throwing accusations of murder around is speculative. Right now, we know Jackson died at the hands of another. Whether it was murder, manslaughter, intentional or accidental is all theory at this point, so I simply pointed out that typing he was murdered in big capital letters like its fact is debatable.
 
Superstition said:
I read your post. My point stands. I don't disagree entirely with what you say about the rabbi, but throwing accusations of murder around is speculative. Right now, we know Jackson died at the hands of another. Whether it was murder, manslaughter, intentional or accidental is all theory at this point, so I simply pointed out that typing he was murdered in big capital letters like its fact is debatable.
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The Rabbi wants money, but if the Doc tried to cover up his actions. It is a whole different story now.
 
Michael got together with Shmuley in '99 and they started talking and recording, with the aim of releasing a book that would help people understand him better. (Sound familiar?...Replace "Shmuley" with "Bashir" and you've got the same story. This was definitely the predecessor to the Bashir doc.)



"Shmuley says Jackson, who was still reeling from 1993 sexual abuse allegations, wanted the public to hear his voice.

Meredith Vieira: The plan was always to publish the conversations?

Rabbi Shmuley: Absolutely.

Meredith Vieira: But why did he want that out there? Why did he want a book of the conversations?

Rabbi Shmuley: He knew that the public was deeply suspicious of him. I think he wanted be known as a man without a mask.

During the nine-month period when the tapes were made, the rabbi says he and Jackson were so close, he considered him part of the family."



Somewhere between 2000 and 2002, the project was dropped (along with Shmuley) and Michael elected Bashir to help him tell his story instead. During the trial, Shmuley had a bad case of diarrhea of the mouth, concerning Michael. Between that and the "Heal the Kids" ordeal (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,115965,00.html), Michael never wanted to speak to him again. Now, after Uri, Bashir, Shmuley, Gavin, and alllll of that scheisse surrounding the trial, does anyone really believe that MJ would've been willing to open up and bare his soul to the world once more, in an attempt to reconcile his image? Of course not. *He'd abandoned that project.* He was done with that route. He turned all of his attention to his kids and to his music - hoping, instead, that those creations would be the greatest testament to his character and his heart, that they would speak loudest. And they do. Shmuley needs to look at the man in the mirror.
 
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ensleyave said:
Why are you glad?
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cos it shares things to those who listen meaningfully which should have been shared a long time before...and might have made a change..
this side of MJ was always there..longing for love..longing for understanding...he just didnt let it show...and always put on the brave mask...
so I am glad that now those who do want to listen meaningfully have a chance
 
I just sent a scathing letter to Dateline NBC regarding that Boteach character. My message is number 42 on page 2 of the responses.
 
Superstition said:
I read your post. My point stands. I don't disagree entirely with what you say about the rabbi, but throwing accusations of murder around is speculative. Right now, we know Jackson died at the hands of another. Whether it was murder, manslaughter, intentional or accidental is all theory at this point, so I simply pointed out that typing he was murdered in big capital letters like its fact is debatable.
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What I know for sure, Michael didn't want to die. Rabbi is just making it look like that. He had 3 kids around him and he was a great father. And I do not blame ppl saying that he was murdered. It makes perfect sense if use a bit of logic.


Oh well, finally I watched it too. I totally ignored what rabbi was saying. He was just wrapping up MJ’s words whatever was good for him, covering up something.
I just was listening what MJ was saying about himself. A very interesting part was how critical he was about women in general. I would say I agree with his statements I just disagree that he applies it too almost all women. And I perfectly understand why. Because in Hollywood there is just jealousy, money, fame are more important than true feelings and pure relationships. Being famous, being loved by millions MJ really didn’t have any access to normal ppl . He was always surrounded by ppl who were more aggressive to get an access to him including crazy fans. I call it ppl-predators. They are everywhere, they are aggressive and successful they get their piece no matter what.Crazy fans who were pulled out with security from stage were not his taste ,I guess.
It was almost like a cage made from wrong ppl around him. It is really sad.
I wonder why Brooke Shields didn’t marry him? Looks like she was the one he really loved.Lisa Marie looks like was the one who didn’t care too much about him. I kind of figured it out before without listening and watching it.
A general impression from these tapes is sadness and feeling sorry for Michael. He really needed somebody beside him, who could heal his broken soul.
 
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I have bookended our more than two hundred pages of transcribed conversations with a moral overview of Michael's life and how his tragic existence and untimely demise can only be redeemed by serving as a morality tale for the rest of America.
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Talk about a Messiah complex... how dare he call Michael's existence tragic... how can he.... and to postulate how Michael can be "redeemed".....

This is the worst, most vile thing I have read from him yet.

This man is not worthy to shine Michael's dirtiest shoes.
 
Asedora said:
What I know for sure, Michael didn't want to die. Rabbi is just making it look like that. He had 3 kids around him and he was a great father. And I do not blame ppl saying that he was murdered. It makes perfect sense if use a bit of logic.


Oh well, finally I watched it too. I totally ignored what rabbi was saying. He was just wrapping up MJ’s words whatever was good for him, covering up something.
I just was listening what MJ was saying about himself. A very interesting part was how critical he was about women in general. I would say I agree with his statements I just disagree that he applies it too almost all women. And I perfectly understand why. Because in Hollywood there is just jealousy, money, fame are more important than true feelings and pure relationships. Being famous, being loved by millions MJ really didn’t have any access to normal ppl . He was always surrounded by ppl who were more aggressive to get an access to him including crazy fans. I call it ppl-predators. They are everywhere, they are aggressive and successful they get their piece no matter what.Crazy fans who were pulled out with security from stage were not his taste ,I guess.
It was almost like a cage made from wrong ppl around him. It is really sad.
I wonder why Brooke Shields didn’t marry him? Looks like she was the one he really loved.Lisa Marie looks like was the one who didn’t care too much about him. I kind of figured it out before without listening and watching it.
A general impression from these tapes is sadness and feeling sorry for Michael. He really needed somebody beside him, who could heal his broken soul.
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In the book he is very very critical of a certain type of woman. He even reference how many great men have been brought down, because of what women has between their legs. You have to look at where he is coming from. Since the age of FIVE he was exposed to strippers men throughing money at these women. He was exposed to groopies and how his brothers and fathers would have sex with these women. His father had an outside child by a woman that new his father was married. His sister in laws tried to break up their group. So from early on he saw women as manipulative. He loved Lisa, but she changed her mind about having kids with them until they divorced. Then she wrote letters to him changing her mind again saying she would. His heart turned cold as he says. Without all of that baggage it is hard enough to date when you are a celebrity anyway. You are always wondering.
 
So women don't get offended by what he says about women. You have to understand his state of mind. He still wanted marriage but he wanted a woman just like him compassionate giving, always dignified and a tomboy. Oh by the way I am a 41 year old mother of 3
 
Asedora said:
What I know for sure, Michael didn't want to die. Rabbi is just making it look like that. He had 3 kids around him and he was a great father. And I do not blame ppl saying that he was murdered. It makes perfect sense if use a bit of logic.


Oh well, finally I watched it too. I totally ignored what rabbi was saying. He was just wrapping up MJ’s words whatever was good for him, covering up something.
I just was listening what MJ was saying about himself. A very interesting part was how critical he was about women in general. I would say I agree with his statements I just disagree that he applies it too almost all women. And I perfectly understand why. Because in Hollywood there is just jealousy, money, fame are more important than true feelings and pure relationships. Being famous, being loved by millions MJ really didn’t have any access to normal ppl . He was always surrounded by ppl who were more aggressive to get an access to him including crazy fans. I call it ppl-predators. They are everywhere, they are aggressive and successful they get their piece no matter what.Crazy fans who were pulled out with security from stage were not his taste ,I guess.
It was almost like a cage made from wrong ppl around him. It is really sad.
I wonder why Brooke Shields didn’t marry him? Looks like she was the one he really loved.Lisa Marie looks like was the one who didn’t care too much about him. I kind of figured it out before without listening and watching it.
A general impression from these tapes is sadness and feeling sorry for Michael. He really needed somebody beside him, who could heal his broken soul.
Click to expand...
He was extremely critical of a certain type of women. He felt women manipulated men with sex. Don't get upset ladies. Think about his state of mind. That's what he saw from the early age of five. Strippers taking money from men. Groupies will have sex with you for fame and fortune. His dad a married man even having sex with these groupies. His sister in laws trying to break up the group. Those were his images.
 
i have not heard these private tapes, only read the first 10 pages of this thread.

but as with ALL things related to Michael, if you listen to MICHAEL's words and think about HIS actions, the truth becomes clear and it is beautiful.

1) Michael has NEVER spoken bad about anyone, except in private, and only AFTER that person hurt him first. Soooooo many people have taken their shots at Michael in public and Michael NEVER did the same (i.e. Lisa Marie, Madonna, leeches like this Shmulee jerk). Michael is classy.

2) When Michael speaks, I feel so much Love. Love for children, for his fans, for his family, for humanity. This Schmulee guy does not have the wisdom or good fortune to learn from Michael. Michael never Judges people for things he has no clue about. Michael has been a good human being his whole life.

3) Michael did NOT give up. I don't know him, but after loving him for MY whole life and knowing all that I do know about him, I don't think that he has ever been happier than he was NOW with his kids. I truly believe this.

To judge Michael and lie and say that Michael would have wanted these private tapes made public is so shameful.

Furthermore, for ANYONE who says that Michael lived a tragic life or insinuates that he failed his God-given gifts/potential is WRONG. Michael became the most famous man in the world and contributed more to humanity than any one person I've ever known. The hundreds and thousands of people on this forum are living examples of people touched by Michael's love. There are MILLIONS of us in this world.

We know all that Michael gave. We know that we were and still are blessed to have been alive for Michael Jackson.

There are two types of people: those that contribute to society and those that destroy it selfishly. Michael Jackson will live forever because he gave - and gives - us all love and happiness through his music, dance, and magic. This Schmulee is one of many who we will FORGET because he is not worth remembering.

I'd rather read each of your thoughts because I know your words come from a place of love. I will not let Michael down by giving this despicable Schmulee his 15 seconds of infamy.
 
Asedora said:
What I know for sure, Michael didn't want to die. Rabbi is just making it look like that. He had 3 kids around him and he was a great father. And I do not blame ppl saying that he was murdered. It makes perfect sense if use a bit of logic.
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And all I'm saying is that it's fine to have that opinion, but can it be left in the threads where its appropriate? I'm tired of trying to read threads on the forums and seeing all the rampant speculation.

The tapes themselves, interesting to listen to. But I, like many others, am suspect at the timing of the release. I don't know this guy's motives or if his actions are legit or for financial gain, but he's got to know people are going to question the timing, especially when he says he distanced himself from Jackson.
 
Dangerous21 said:
i have not heard these private tapes, only read the first 10 pages of this thread.

but as with ALL things related to Michael, if you listen to MICHAEL's words and think about HIS actions, the truth becomes clear and it is beautiful.

1) Michael has NEVER spoken bad about anyone, except in private, and only AFTER that person hurt him first. Soooooo many people have taken their shots at Michael in public and Michael NEVER did the same (i.e. Lisa Marie, Madonna, leeches like this Shmulee jerk). Michael is classy.

2) When Michael speaks, I feel so much Love. Love for children, for his fans, for his family, for humanity. This Schmulee guy does not have the wisdom or good fortune to learn from Michael. Michael never Judges people for things he has no clue about. Michael has been a good human being his whole life.

3) Michael did NOT give up. I don't know him, but after loving him for MY whole life and knowing all that I do know about him, I don't think that he has ever been happier than he was NOW with his kids. I truly believe this.

To judge Michael and lie and say that Michael would have wanted these private tapes made public is so shameful.

Furthermore, for ANYONE who says that Michael lived a tragic life or insinuates that he failed his God-given gifts/potential is WRONG. Michael became the most famous man in the world and contributed more to humanity than any one person I've ever known. The hundreds and thousands of people on this forum are living examples of people touched by Michael's love. There are MILLIONS of us in this world.

We know all that Michael gave. We know that we were and still are blessed to have been alive for Michael Jackson.

There are two types of people: those that contribute to society and those that destroy it selfishly. Michael Jackson will live forever because he gave - and gives - us all love and happiness through his music, dance, and magic. This Schmulee is one of many who we will FORGET because he is not worth remembering.

I'd rather read each of your thoughts because I know your words come from a place of love. I will not let Michael down by giving this despicable Schmulee his 15 seconds of infamy.
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Well said. Well said.
 
Superstition said:
And all I'm saying is that it's fine to have that opinion, but can it be left in the threads where its appropriate? I'm tired of trying to read threads on the forums and seeing all the rampant speculation.

The tapes themselves, interesting to listen to. But I, like many others, am suspect at the timing of the release. I don't know this guy's motives or if his actions are legit or for financial gain, but he's got to know people are going to question the timing, especially when he says he distanced himself from Jackson.
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We must remember this was nine years ago. Michael is even talking about things that happened furthur back than that. If you look at it reasonably we are talking 20 to 30 years ago. A person grows a hell of a lot during that length of time.
 
Why would anyone be offended about what he said about women?lol At least he was picky and wasn't sleeping with every girl that got on his way, like most celebrities do.
 
Tapes were interesting to say the least.

I just wish there were videos to go along with the tapes because quite frankly, audio tapes can be altered.

Clearly this is for financial gain, I just wish this information was released many years ago!
 
vargak said:
exactly...and this is why I am glad this is coming out...it reminds people that MJ was just human like anyone else
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yes maybe to us(fans) its a good thing coz we know him and really try to understand him and not judge him and we ignore the stupid comments made by the rabbi and we know that he wasn't MJ's friend and we know how the media could be
but the public is gonna be quick to judge him coz they have this image of him that the media gave them and there gonna believe that this rabbi was his friend and all that bullshit
and they already are twisting everything he said
 
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