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Dateline NBC tonight, 9pm E.T with Rabbi Boteach's tapes

mjbunny said:
I'm not trying to defend him by saying the following, but what was his relationship with MJ as? As a Rabbi Boteach, or as Shmuley ... a friend who was kind of an advisor, with whom he's working on a charity and plans to write a book with? Ministers, priests and rabbis are bound by vows to help their congregations with discretion and privacy, but MJ wasn't a Jewish man going to his Rabbi for counseling (anymore than Deepak Chopra was his personal physician). Now as a "friend" (and I do believe that at one time they actually were friends before they had their falling out) I can't say that Shmuley hasn't been a backstabber or that he is right in sharing every last private word, nor can I say that his comments implying MJ "may have" been guilty don't tell us something about his own heart and character. Sure. But I don't think that his title specifically binds him to secrecy in his personal life among friends. Just saying. That's bound by a different covenant... the one that says not to screw over your friends!
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hey mjbunny.... before i start let me just say i appreciate your respectful disagreement with my view.

i understand where you are coming from as far as to the nature of their relationship/friendship.

maybe its just me... but i guess if you are a leader of a faith you are that 24/7 .
i guess my point of view is this... i have read and heard the rabbi spew nothing but hatred when it comes to MJ. he is so judgmental, unforgiving, and really bitter. i haven't based my opinion about this man based on this audio's or the book.... it has been on the totality of how he has treated mj.
yes the rabbi is a backstabber, he is a crook, he spew hate. Now is those type of conducts acceptable in a leader / person of faith? NO-
it doesn't matter what the nature of his relationship/friendship with MJ.... what matters is how the rabbi lives or lead by example.

friendships with people doesn't give you a pass to mistreat another human being.
 
dearmichael1 said:
Draliongirl said:
Well back in 1994 she made fun of the kiss Michael gave to Lisa Marie, i dont recall exactly what she said, she seems to have changed after that, But TO ME Michael saw her little comment and did not like it


She's said quit a few things about him in the past, not just that. Also about janet too.
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you know i thought madge's speech was a good one in a sense that the facts are facts.... people abandoned him. they did. acceptance of that fact made the speech moving.

but does that take away all the stuff the she said about him? NO! and you are right.... madge just didn't talk about MJ but also about Janet.

if we are to forgive madge for abandoning mj then she and her fans should do the same about what was said on the audio.
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mjjfan4ever said:
dearmichael1 said:
you know i thought madge's speech was a good one in a sense that the facts are facts.... people abandoned him. they did. acceptance of that fact made the speech moving.

but does that take away all the stuff the she said about him? NO! and you are right.... madge just didn't talk about MJ but also about Janet.

if we are to forgive madge for abandoning mj then she and her fans should do the same about what was said on the audio.
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I totally agree with you. That was past.

I`m not her`s fan, but she said some important things in speech and I was totally touched when I saw that on TV.
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Warning! I wrote this under the influence and, listening to MJ "In The Back" on repeat as loud as I can. I didn't want to watch but some powerful force made me. :-(


Lord help us, just when I thought it was getting easier day-by-day, The Saga takes a wicked turn.
Some of Michael's beating stories rang too close to home for me and I lost it.

Doggon it, Michael, I won't have any tears left for the movie. Well, that might be a good thing. :)

Of course the media is still talking about the accusers without saying ANYTHING about the real truth why they turned on Michael. WHY? I want to know. The truth is all over the net. Part of the agenda, that's why.

AND, they're blowing that Madona "thing" out of proportion (specially on Showbizz Tonight).
The rabi did that on purpose of course. Out of the 30 hours of tapes, he had to bring out the Madonna quote from decades ago? PEEELEASE! We all know Michael had issues and Madonna was playing S&M to shock the public back then. Total turn off for MJ. That's probably why they fell out of touch.

Also in many photos with the rabi Michael's walking with crotches. Why? And he was most likely taking pain killers for that. It might have blurred his judgement about revealing all that stuff into a tape recorder. Blunt honesty isn't always good.

I wish I didn't hear all about his pains and suffering because now I have some weird feeling of guilt about enjoying his work knowing that he was tortured into doing it. :-((

Long post, sorry.

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if they release this tape out on dvd or cd i'll get so angry :yes: :mat: caise this is so mean what people did to him :(
 
Why World want to know totally everything about Michael ??
I don`t understand it at all...
The most important things are his music and his dance, his humanity and charity, not his private life.

I think about his lovely children. They are so young, and this brutal world want to know everything about their daddy.
 
Memefan said:
I don't understand why you guys are so worked up over this. I knew the fake rabbi would not do him justice. I also knew, it was his words that MJ authorized the release of these tapes, without ever showing proof of it.
I called for people to boycott the show, out of respect for MJ and the further injustice his legacy & name were about to be submitted.

Obviously everyone wanted to "hear MJ".

That is the hypocrisy I have noticed among MJ fans, taking ish about tabloids and the press all while being a willing participant. What were you expecting???

Quit asking when it will stop, because as long as people keep supporting the "demonization" of Michael Jackson, it will not stop.
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You're absolutely right. I did not want to watch and did anyway and now I regret it.
I'm addicted to Michael, plain and simple.

I promised to do better.

Thanks for the wake-up call. Keep'em coming.
 
I like most of you watch this interview and was shocked and somewhat upset. It was as if we were eavesdropping on a conversation that was meant for 2 people only and to be private. Yet too, it was a better understanding of Mike if one can say this and his pain and misery he was feeling. Anger because why the heck now Boteach? Of course it's $$$$$ what else. And what gets me even more angry is the fact they use a charity as they're way of smoothing it out. Like right...ok...you're out for revenge buddy...charity my butt.

Oh Michael wanted me to write this...Yea sure he did. If he were alive, would this all have come out ...heck no.

see a "good thing or added pain"
 
Lulu - that is my point also! Why do we need to know everything. Some things just are NOT OUR BUSINESS. And I am not just talking about fans, I am talking about the general public.

Remember the lyrics from Tabloid Junkie 'to read sanctifies it'. For me it not good enough that we want to hear Michael speak. We can hear Michael speak in any number of authorised ways. Listening to those conversations is a violation of Michael's privacy. Simple. We are contributing to the problem.

My advice? Unless we plan to do something about Boteach and his book, we need to step away from the tapes. Step. Away. I have indicated what I plan to do. I hope others will find a way to let Boteach know that this is not good enough.

Looking at how Boteach spoke about Madonna and the remarks he has made about Michael, you have to know that he has a jealous heart and he is an attention seeker. There is a darkness in his own soul that he needs to deal with. And I hope he is walking the straight and narrow, cause when he slips ...
 
TheChosenOne said:
Lulu - that is my point also! Why do we need to know everything. Some things just are NOT OUR BUSINESS. And I am not just talking about fans, I am talking about the general public.

Remember the lyrics from Tabloid Junkie 'to read sanctifies it'. For me it not good enough that we want to hear Michael speak. We can hear Michael speak in any number of authorised ways. Listening to those conversations is a violation of Michael's privacy. Simple. We are contributing to the problem.

My advice? Unless we plan to do something about Boteach and his book, we need to step away from the tapes. Step. Away. I have indicated what I plan to do. I hope others will find a way to let Boteach know that this is not good enough.

Looking at how Boteach spoke about Madonna and the remarks he has made about Michael, you have to know that he has a jealous heart and he is an attention seeker. There is a darkness in his own soul that he needs to deal with. And I hope he is walking the straight and narrow, cause when he slips ...
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Thanks for this. Really.
Lets do this for Michael.
Just for him and for Paris, Blanket and Prince.
 
michaeljojacksonfan said:
Actually i am very surprised i thought this guy was going to be a real bastard but after watching the special he seems very genuine and considerate of MJ and the pain he went through. I think this is very good for MJ.
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except for the fact that he said the alleged abuse from Joe "might not be true" and that Michael was self-absorbed because of his celebrity and fame and his insinuation that Michael MIGHT be guilty of pedophilia and so on and so on
don't listen to anything this bastard has to say, all he ever had in mind was to make money off Michael's pain and suffering and now he is also JUDGING him who the hell does he thing he is?
a creepy pervert who writes books about sex that's what he is!
 
I don't think I believe this at all. I mean, MJ is a very private person...he'd have to trust you absolutely to confide and be recorded like this - I don't think I believe it at all. MJ wouldn't have put these comments on tape!!

I have serious doubts about the veracity of these tapes.
 
Michael used to bare his soul and confide to total strangers that's just the kind of person he was
remember what Thome said Michael told him? that he wanted the world to see the real him, he thought this was the only way he could get his respect back, that's eactly what Bashir's documentary was suppose to do show the real Michael, I'm sure it's Michael on these tapes
 
Maybe he didn`t know that he is recording at the time.. O my godness.. What a silly world...
What a mean people around him...

I need a cold shower... GRRR
 
TheChosenOne said:
Lulu - that is my point also! Why do we need to know everything. Some things just are NOT OUR BUSINESS. And I am not just talking about fans, I am talking about the general public.

Remember the lyrics from Tabloid Junkie 'to read sanctifies it'. For me it not good enough that we want to hear Michael speak. We can hear Michael speak in any number of authorised ways. Listening to those conversations is a violation of Michael's privacy. Simple. We are contributing to the problem.

My advice? Unless we plan to do something about Boteach and his book, we need to step away from the tapes. Step. Away. I have indicated what I plan to do. I hope others will find a way to let Boteach know that this is not good enough.

Looking at how Boteach spoke about Madonna and the remarks he has made about Michael, you have to know that he has a jealous heart and he is an attention seeker. There is a darkness in his own soul that he needs to deal with. And I hope he is walking the straight and narrow, cause when he slips ...
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I totally agree with you.

I personally decided NOT to watch the show last night. And I am so happy I stuck to my guns.

When I first heard of the tapes and the way they came about, I called for MJ fans to boycott the show. But, what i have come to realize with MJ fans, talking sh!t about tabloids (how evil diane dimond is, we should support MJ and burn tabloids....) is one thing, but actually take action and step away, is another.

I have left comments for the fake rabbi, sent several emails to dateline, wrote a very bad critic of the book on amazon.com....but we are the minority.

I am tired of people complaining about the press, wondering when the MJ exploitation will stop, when they don't take any action to make it stop.

Maybe if we shut the darn TV and stop watching ET, maybe they won't have a need for that evil witch Diane Dimond to be on.

Three months later, these tabloid shows still put a lot of focus on MJ...because we buy into it. We watch it, their ratings skyrocket and they won't let go of the cash cow.
 
Victoria83 said:
I posted this on another thread, since moved to the Tabloid Section. This is long, but it's better to be armed with facts than take things at what might seem to be face-value. In my opinion, Boteach defrauded Michael on the Heal the Kids foundation, by taking most of the donations for his personal salary. If any of the money goes to any charity, I'll eat my fedora (if I had a fedora?).

(I'm sorry Susie. . but Michael would NOT be proud of Boteach's giving money to charity, because he's NOT GOING TO!")

If you really want to KNOW about this awful man, read here:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,73709,00.html

Samuel Freedman, a good reporter, writer and author of interesting books, evidently was sold a bill of goods on Boteach. His report on Shmuley's WWRL radio show with Peter Noel made it sound like Michael Jackson's onetime rabbi was on the up and up.

But readers of this column know otherwise. Back on May 23, 2001, we revealed the truth about the "Kosher Sex" rabbi who started a bogus charity with Jackson.

To this day there has no been no accounting for the money Boteach and Jackson raised for their Time for Kids/Heal the World Foundation. Indeed, the event they held on Feb. 14, 2001, at Carnegie Hall — a symposium on children — has never turned up in tax returns.

London newspapers reported that Boteach was ousted from the L'Chaim Society of Oxford University for mismanagement of funds. (He allegedly used money from the charity to maintain a lavish home. Boteach insisted it was his right to do so.) He was also reportedly banned from having a pulpit in the U.K., although during our conversation last year he denied that.

The New York Times also didn't bother to look into the infamous L'Chaim Society, Boteach's New York charity.

The most recent tax return available, which covers all of 2000, states that the New York edition of L'Chaim Society took in $203,185 in donations but paid out $240,164 "for administration." There are no funds listed for "Program Services."

In May 2001, this column discovered quite a lot about the so-called Oxford L'Chaim Society of New York, which has nothing whatsoever to do with Oxford University in Great Britain.

I wrote: "In 1999, the British government criticized (Boteach's) L'Chaim Society of Oxford, London and Cambridge — an organization that was supposed to support and promote Jewish thinking and life on the Oxford campus — when they discovered that Shmuley (his name is Shmuel but he loves the nickname) had been dipping into the funds.

In an e-mail to the Oxford Union, Sonia Tugwell of the Charity Commission wrote on January 8, 2001: "In August 1999, the Charity Commission opened an inquiry under section 8 of the Charities Act 1993 into the L'Chaim Independent Charitable Trust as a result of concerns that the charity's funds were being misapplied.

"The inquiry established that a number of apparent inappropriate payments were regularly being made by the founder of the charity, Rabbi Boteach and his wife. Fundraising costs and administrative expenses were high in relation to relatively low charitable expenditure.

"As a result of the inquiry, in March last year, the trustees of the charity, after taking appropriate legal advice, reached an agreement with the Boteaches. The result of this was that a sum was paid by them to the charity. The trustees of the charity decided to wind up the charity and the London and Oxford offices were closed last year with our approval. It was agreed that the assets of the Cambridge Society would be transferred to another trust. If there are any funds remaining after outstanding liabilities have been paid, these will be given to other charitable causes similar to those supported by the L'Chaim Independent Charitable Trust."

An article dated June 1, 1998, in the London Daily Telegraph clearly states: "Ah Shmuley. The shame, the disgrace. (He's been) publicly reproached by Elkin Levy, president of the United Synagogues; forced to resign from the synagogue in Willesden where he preaches, accused of conduct unbecoming, bringing the rabbinate into disrepute." The resignation was apparently in response to the publication of Boteach's controversial book, "Kosher Sex," which has been a bestseller and was excerpted in Playboy.

"It seems funny to me," said a source at the Oxford Union, "that the headquarters for the L'Chaim Society of Oxford is in New York."

Frustrated by the lack of information from Boteach's office, I subsequently wrote another story on Feb. 18, 2002, stating that Boteach's tax-free foundation in the United States is alled Oxford L'Chaim Society, implying a tie to the prestigious British university.

I also wrote that the L'Chaim Society's 1999 public tax filing shows that the charity took in $300,000. Of that amount, $160,000 went to "management" and $122,000 was sent as a lump-sum donation to the L'Chaim Society of Cambridge, the other top British university.

But, of course, representatives of the Cambridge Society swore to me last year that they hadn't heard from Boteach in a long time. Certainly they didn't mention a huge donation, and neither did Boteach.

Even so, more than half the money collected by Boteach in 1999 went to salaries. Less than half was donated to charity. Just in case you were wondering.
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Thanks for this. I say let's all report the rabi to proper authorities. I just did.
email them this article at

Complaints@tigta.treas.gov
and
opr@irs.gov
or
Mail: Write to:
Federal Trade Commission
Consumer Response Center
600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20580
 
at least Michael doesn't have to watch that madness
It would broke his heart even more :(
 
I think there is a natural curiosity to find out more about this complex man, which compels people to watch shows like this. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. What ends up being wrong is the WAY these things are presented to the public, with incredible sensationalism. It becomes difficult to weed out the truth from the lies because people become so good at lying. I will have to look at it again, but I do believe Michael KNEW he was being recorded. People seem to forget that Michael recorded almost everything... so him consenting to allow this Rabbi to record him shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. What I am giving the side eye at is the conversations being released NOW. No one but Michael and the Rabbi know WHY Michael decided to confide in him, ON TAPE, and what those tapes were to be used for, if anything. We will never know that.
 
mike is at peace now. the only ones suffering are those he loved and left b ehind. so take solace in the fact that this does nothing to sully OUR opinion of him. if anything, it makes us love him more.
 
All this did for me was make me feel more love for him.
I understand where he's coming from with his Dad.
I might not have gotten it that bad from my step-mom, but I totally feel him pain. Always have.
There was nothing new to me in these tapes.
I wish people would leave private things, PRIVATE
 
Tenacious D said:
He didnt inject it but he wanted it and he demanded it. Michael is partly responsible for his death. He could have said no, he knew what the dangers where.
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I'll get flack for this but I have to agree. MJ is partially responsible for his own death. I know it was deemed a homicide and I agree with that but he wanted and asked for these medications. I know they were to help him sleep and escape physical and emotional pain but we don't know that he was "murdered" or killed intentionally. And I can see why someone like the rabbi would be angry with MJ after finding out about his death. I often times wished he was a stronger person to resist all that and that he would have stayed clean if not for himself, then for his children. Probably the rabbi saw that he was beyond help at some point. Some people just don't want to be helped. They have to want to be helped. I say, if this rabbi and anyone else in MJ's life REALLY wanted to help him, they should have forced him somehow to get intensive therapy and/or rehab (which I understand he did try before). I've heard that many people with serious addictions only change when the threat of having their children taken from them is made. Maybe that would have done it. He needed a serious intervention. He may still be alive today had everyone who REALLY loved him and cared about him in his life "ganged" up on him...like Whitney Houston's mother and family did. Easier said than done though.
 
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