Coroners Report released - GRAPHIC CONTENT (Threads merged)

[Moulin Rouge]

Question

I too read the report and felt a bit ashamed at the end..especially reading the truth about his hair. Its like for years we speculated about it, but it wasnt our right to know. MJ and his body were about mystery and now theres nothing left.

But I have a question. When MJ was arrested in November 2003, on his booking information, it stated his weight as 120lbs and height as 5'11. On the autospy, the height is 5'9 and weight is 136lbs.

Now I understand the height difference. When Mj was booked, he probably had on shoes and they measured to the top of his hair. But the autospy must have been just the "body" so to speak.

However, the weight is very suspect. In the photos of the One more chance video (which was done days before the arrest), he is quite a good weight. His thighs are meatly and he's generally healthy (weight wise). In the This is It photos, he is much much thinner. His legs are like sticks.

So how the hell can he weight 16lbs more than in 2003? Do you think the arrest details are false. Maybe they didnt weigh him and someone just supplied the information e.g. from a passport or something?

What do you all think?

He probably had his shoes on in 2003, he always said he was 5'10 so give or take and inch it's not that big of a deal. About his weight, either the 2003 weight is inaccurate or the 2009. In 2003 they could have taken his weight from his ID and they don't update your weight unless it looks significantly different from what's written. Or at the cornoer's office they could have weighed him after he was in the freezer so he was a bit heavier.

 

[mjjfan4ever]

I wish they will name some people. Please.

:clapping:

 

[jilliebean]

Re: Coroners Report released (Threads merged)

yes.

From reading the autopsy report, I am pretty sure he will go for a plea deal. Pleading not guilty at the arraignment is pretty normal.

But after seeing the autopsy report, it is VERY CLEAR propofol killed him. None of the other drugs that so called friends & family were yapping about showed up in the autopsy.

People have been going on and on that MJ was addicted to opiates and all these drugs...well, the autopsy doesn't show any of that.

Murray has to face the music. He fed MJ the drugs that killed him.

I agree with this 100%. On pages 5 and 6 it shows the meds that were prescribed to Michael and it shows the date they were prescribed and how many were prescribed and how many remained... Michael was not abusing his prescription medication in any way shape or form!!!!!

 

[Soundmind]

Michael Jackson's Guitarist Manager Bruce Edwin Reports on Autopsy Summary

Bruce Edwin, who is CEO of the celebrity talent management firm Starpower Management, who managed guitarist David Williams (guitarist on Thriller, Off the Wall, etc., who also passed on last year), states, "I have reviewed over twenty pages of the coroners and criminalist report of Michael today, and what fans of Michael should know from these findings are the following; Number one, Michael Jackson was, although too thin, at nearly six foot and 136 pounds, generally in good health.
Secondly, details Mr. Edwin, 7 drugs were found in his system, and two in particular, propofol, and benzodiazepine, caused his death due to creating the inability to breath and undue strain being put on his heart due to these drugs.
Thirdly, Bruce Edwin continues, the autopsy, which involved many biopsies of various parts of the body and organs, concluded the experts' findings that Michael most likely did not administer these drugs into himself.
It is suspected, Bruce Edwin goes on, that Dr. Conrad Murray was reportedly the one present who administered these drugs into Michael. The autopsy report further details that the person who presumably gave Michael these drugs through an I.V. in to his leg, did so without following proper safety procedure, and did so reportedly for the reason of insomnia, and that these drugs are not supposed to be used to treat insomnia.
Bruce Edwin adds, Michael's guitarist, David Willliams confided to me early last year that Michael had been addicted to pills and drugs for some time, and that the Jackson family was aware of this, and that there was at least one person in Michael's home that was enabling him, and possibly more, and that one particular person who generally answered the phone was the person attempting to block the family from communicating with their son Michael. The talent manager further states that David Williams and at least one of the other Jackson brothers were attempting to do an intervention to save Michael, but that their efforts were being blocked by a person in the house to save him.
Mr. Edwin, who is also a producer, and attended the repass of Mr. Jackson, lastly states, I feel that the family knows who is responsible for the tragic loss of life of the world's biggest star, and music's legend. I feel they know who did it, and they are going after him. It won't bring Michael back, but it will help them with some closure, and they deserve it.

I'm more interested in the drummer's manager's opinon from the Bad tour that may or may have not passed away :smilerolleyes: I'm sure he has valuable information that will allow Randy to expose Branca and probably there is no wrong in taking the stand to paint MJ as junkie and allow Murray to escape justice . There is a more important mission to accomplish :smilerolleyes: . He attended the repass , and Oxman atteneded that did not make him credible either . Are you planning to take the stand ? I'm sure even desperate Chernoff won't pay you any attention , who needs you when Randy is more than willing to take the stand and say MJ was "controled by drugs for the last 12 years of his life"

 

[esther1972]

If Michael died within seconds of the propofol shot, I do not understand why he was given it around 10.00 am 10.30. am? That was the time for him to wake up usually. . idk?

I have no idea why it would be given at that time...but there are more things i don't understand. If that murray guy indeed came down every morning at the same time why didn't anybody go ask security if they knew michael was sleeping late or something like that. (ps sorry for this maybe off topic question but it is on of many i have regarding to what happend that day)

 

[daisy]

I have no idea why it would be given at that time...but there are more things i don't understand. If that murray guy indeed came down every morning at the same time why didn't anybody go ask security if they knew michael was sleeping late or something like that. (ps sorry for this maybe off topic question but it is on of many i have regarding to what happend that day)

this is not off topic at all.

but this could be also due to privacy Michael might have required.
who could ask - the chief maybe.....kids?

 

[twinklEE]

I have no idea why it would be given at that time...but there are more things i don't understand. If that murray guy indeed came down every morning at the same time why didn't anybody go ask security if they knew michael was sleeping late or something like that. (ps sorry for this maybe off topic question but it is on of many i have regarding to what happend that day)

I agree, and the point here is why Murray gave him the propofol around the time he was supposed to be up already, Michael supposedly had breakfast every day around 9.30/45 am with his children. Yet that day he ''decided'' to receive (another?) shot of propofol to sleep longer despite having in house rehearsals at 2 pm and Travis PAyne being on his way. It just doesn't add up.

 

[esther1972]

this is not off topic at all.

but this could be also due to privacy Michael might have required.
who could ask - the chief maybe.....kids?

If i understood correctly the chef made breakfast or juice every morning...so i quess she did the same thing that morning too...murray used to pick it up on and take it upstairs everymorning...but not that morning..
Since that chef had to know about Michael's sceduale in order to prepare the meals (would michael join or not that kind of stuff) and she didn't get to hear this mornings routine would be different wouldn't asking security about michael's sceduale be a normal question than?

I agree, and the point here is why Murray gave him the propofol around the time he was supposed to be up already, Michael supposedly had breakfast every day around 9.30/45 am with his children. Yet that day he ''decided'' to receive (another?) shot of propofol to sleep longer despite having in house rehearsals at 2 pm and Travis PAyne being on his way. It just doesn't add up.

exactly it doesn't add up...and the strange thing is eventhough the chef give all these interviews not one reporter bothered to ask her this...don't get me wrong i'm not saying the chef is involved...all i'm saying is that it doesn't add up.

 

[daisy]

Is it true that out of these medicines found in Michael´s body "two in particular, propofol, and benzodiazepine, caused his death due to creating the inability to breath and undue strain being put on his heart due to these drugs."???

He says about two drugs here that caused death.
In combination?

I am wondering whether Michael was conscious at the time of being administered propofol.

 

[twinklEE]

There were so many benzo's given to him t hat it was impossible for Michael to be conscious and ''demand more'' as Murray and that rat of a lawyer he has have claimed in the past, according to them Michael was ''demanding propofol'' untill poor little Murray was scared to life and ''gave in''. right like a 5'9 man who weighed no more than 136lbs was able to bully and scare off a 6'5!!!! probably 200lbs man. Monster gave him that last shot on that morning b/c he WANTED to give it to him, bastard didn't care, and this jackass is still allowed to practice medicine only in America. :smilerolleyes:

 

[eStyle]

Michael Jackson's Guitarist Manager Bruce Edwin Reports on Autopsy Summary

Bruce Edwin, who is CEO of the celebrity talent management firm Starpower Management, who managed guitarist David Williams (guitarist on Thriller, Off the Wall, etc., who also passed on last year), states, "I have reviewed over twenty pages of the coroners and criminalist report of Michael today, and what fans of Michael should know from these findings are the following; Number one, Michael Jackson was, although too thin, at nearly six foot and 136 pounds, generally in good health.
Secondly, details Mr. Edwin, 7 drugs were found in his system, and two in particular, propofol, and benzodiazepine, caused his death due to creating the inability to breath and undue strain being put on his heart due to these drugs.
Thirdly, Bruce Edwin continues, the autopsy, which involved many biopsies of various parts of the body and organs, concluded the experts' findings that Michael most likely did not administer these drugs into himself.
It is suspected, Bruce Edwin goes on, that Dr. Conrad Murray was reportedly the one present who administered these drugs into Michael. The autopsy report further details that the person who presumably gave Michael these drugs through an I.V. in to his leg, did so without following proper safety procedure, and did so reportedly for the reason of insomnia, and that these drugs are not supposed to be used to treat insomnia.
Bruce Edwin adds, Michael's guitarist, David Willliams confided to me early last year that Michael had been addicted to pills and drugs for some time, and that the Jackson family was aware of this, and that there was at least one person in Michael's home that was enabling him, and possibly more, and that one particular person who generally answered the phone was the person attempting to block the family from communicating with their son Michael. The talent manager further states that David Williams and at least one of the other Jackson brothers were attempting to do an intervention to save Michael, but that their efforts were being blocked by a person in the house to save him.
Mr. Edwin, who is also a producer, and attended the repass of Mr. Jackson, lastly states, I feel that the family knows who is responsible for the tragic loss of life of the world's biggest star, and music's legend. I feel they know who did it, and they are going after him. It won't bring Michael back, but it will help them with some closure, and they deserve it.

Interesting, thank you!

 

[Limonali]

What does Mr. Edwin REALLY know about Michael, I wish to ask... :smilerolleyes:

 

[daisy]

There were so many benzo's given to him t hat it was impossible for Michael to be conscious and ''demand more'' as Murray and that rat of a lawyer he has have claimed in the past, according to them Michael was ''demanding propofol'' untill poor little Murray was scared to life and ''gave in''. right like a 5'9 man who weighed no more than 136lbs was able to bully and scare off a 6'5!!!! probably 200lbs man. Monster gave him that last shot on that morning b/c he WANTED to give it to him, bastard didn't care, and this jackass is still allowed to practice medicine only in America. :smilerolleyes:

I also think that Michael was not consciouss after so many meds, but I am wondering whether one can proove it basing on the autopsy report.

 

[Limonali]

There is more on the report that I noted but I have to read it again.
Quite frankly, since I have first hand seen this type of procedure I was sick to my stomach and having trouble getting that visual now out of my head.

You're in a difficult position due to that, yet you have more insight... Can understand better.

I also think that Michael was not consciouss after so many meds, but I am wondering whether one can proove it basing on the autopsy report.

I don't know if there's a way to prove it based on the report - beyond any doubt.

 

[Beachlover]

I also think that Michael was not consciouss after so many meds, but I am wondering whether one can proove it basing on the autopsy report.

No. We have no way of knowing how conscious he was.

 

[daisy]

Ok, thanks.

I was just wondering:
- The perimortem beads were present on the bed(if I understood correctly)
- somebody said that Michael died almost immediately after propofol was administered
- propofol didn´t even concentrate enough in blood
- Michael died because of two drugs not one

Maybe Michael was already in a very bad condition he was dying from so many drugs that the propofol didn´t even make it to the blood, which could indicate that Michael could have been in a quite serious state already at the time when propofol was administered.

 

[esther1972]

I have no idea who give you the idea that propofol didn't concentrate enough in the blood because in the coronors report you can read the levels of propofol from the blood drawn at the hospital were sky high....

 

[Beachlover]

and the propofol concentration in urine were very small 0.15 in the last 12 hours of his life (550 urine bladder) . Then why did he even take propofol ??? There is something very very wrong with this story . 50 /25 mg daily to sleep for hours and he slept !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sound, what exactly is your question here? I am presently re-reading the autopsy.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

I imagine the B/P cuff and other stuff was hidden? Or just not used. And also, as a nurse, I can tell you that I would not think to check his blood pressure either. What for?

did it say in the report that one of those monitors u put on your fingers was found in a cupboard in another room. yet murray claimed he was using it on mj. there wasnt any mention of the medics finding one on mj was there. i dont remember reading that.

also who do we know murray injected at around 10.30? becasue if livor mortis etc.whos to say it didnt happen earlier than that?

 

[daisy]

have I misunderstood Soundmind´s posts?

I know that , but for them to rule it as perimortem they determined there was no process of healing . So MJ died on that BED , else a healing process would have started immediatley after he was removed from the bed . PLus the propofol concentration in his blood is an indication he died while he was hooked to propofol and that was at least half an hour before the paramedics arrived . there was no time for the concentration to drop in his blood .

I want to know why they did not classify the injurie caused by the CPR and the attempts to revive him like with the beads . also no mention of time of death or even estimated one , why ?

Mechi , if the survival time after propofol was for 8 minutes the blood concentration would have dropped to near 1 or even less . the blood concentraion indicates when MJ DIED which means DIED he was still hooked to propofol and when propofol stopped there was NO TIME for the concentration to drop . They detected propofol , lidocaine and flumazenil in a syringe , they detected propofol , lidocaine and flumazenil in a a short section of IV tubing attached to a Y connecter . They did not detect any drug in a long tube attached to an IV bag nor in the bag . That means Murray was pushing the drugs into the IV and not in the bag . so no IV drip as he claimed , all of these were recovered from his bag which he found the time to hide " in a closet in the next room"

why no flumazenil was detected in MJ's system ? was it too late ? probably .

Soundmind seems like you're needed here

 

[Beachlover]

I think Michael stoped breathing very shortly after he got the propofol
-> no oxygen anymore so the brain shuts off after around 6-7 minutes
-> no brain activity anymore so the heart shuts off after another... well let's say 8 minutes.
The nurses here can might say it more exactly about the minutes but I think I'm not too wrong?

Now you can keep blood circulation for some time by just making the heart pumping on through cpr for example... that long you're might able to also still feel some pulse for some time.

But that explains for example why the concentration of propofol didn't really make it completely also to the urine etc.

To me it's clear... Michael died on that bed. Those marks seem to be indeed perimortem.
Still a person is officially dead only legally I think when a doctor makes the official declaration? Which was done only much later in the hospital by Dr. Brown? 2 something pm.

Ok. Propofol or Benzo death works like this. First, the breathing slows...gets slower.....slower. The blood isn't getting the oxygen it needs and the brain sends the message to the heart and the heart tries to compensate by beating faster to circulate the blood. The heart beats faster and faster as the body tries to receive the oxygen it needs.

This doesn't take that long, minutes. The brain and the heart muscle don't receive oxygen.

 

[Beachlover]

did it say in the report that one of those monitors u put on your fingers was found in a cupboard in another room. yet murray claimed he was using it on mj. there wasnt any mention of the medics finding one on mj was there. i dont remember reading that.

also who do we know murray injected at around 10.30? becasue if livor mortis etc.whos to say it didnt happen earlier than that?

These items were found in his Medical Bag.

Collected on 6/29 (second scene visit) Blue Rubber Strip (tourniquet), Sphygmomanometer (Blood Pressure), Pulse Finger Monitor, Bloody Gauze,
(on the bottom of the drug listing on Page 7 of the autopsy)

 

[daisy]

Ok. Propofol or Benzo death works like this. First, the breathing slows...gets slower.....slower. The blood isn't getting the oxygen it needs and the brain sends the message to the heart and the heart tries to compensate by beating faster to circulate the blood. The heart beats faster and faster as the body tries to receive the oxygen it needs.

This doesn't take that long, minutes. The brain and the heart muscle don't receive oxygen.

So the moment of death was minutes after administering propofol, and due to administering propofol as combined with benzo taken previously?

 

[Beachlover]

So the moment of death was minutes after administering propofol, and due to administering propofol as combined with benzo taken previously?

Well, this is where any confusion comes in and what time Murray found him. In other words, how long after this did he find Michael?

Perhaps he found him while Michael still had some sort of a pulse as he said but it looks very doubtful. Was it an hour? I can't stay that and I'm not seeing evidence saying that. This, of course, doesn't mean he is not guilty of gross negligence as he obviously tried to hide the fact he gave Propofol.

I am still reading.

 

[Mechi]

So the moment of death was minutes after administering propofol, and due to administering propofol as combined with benzo taken previously?

that's exactly what I think happened, reading this report.

 

[Beachlover]

that's exactly what I think happened, reading this report.

Yes, that IS what happened, but whether or not he found him a minute later or 10 I am not sure either. 10 minutes is too late. You can't reverse it by then and that is why I think there is no flumazenil in the blood.

 

[Sophielo]

From what the report has stated yes it seems that Michael died right after being given propofol. My theory is that Michael was gone when Murray got back and the delay in calling 911 and the phone calls were Murray panicking and trying to figure out what to do.

 

[riviera1992]

All in all, I still keep myself apart from reading this document, 'cause not only the pain delivered, but also the level of too many invasive details... for such an extraordinary human being, seems too unfair for me to be exposed even in death... :angel:
I imagine in days to come, more and more tabloids and TV will start to disset all the details, as they did after FBI files, and to take any opportunity to gain one again some ratings, using his name.
So here is what I think we may have as a point in helping his image:

How does medialoid lie? Rolling Stone magazine, for example, wrote in both its "tribute" editions that Michael wore a nose prosthesis. They even said that an unnamed "source" told them that once, during rehearsal, it fell off and rolled across the floor. Well, the coroner's 51-page report has just been released and, lo and behold, Michael's nose bore one scar on either side of his nostrils but otherwise was intact. Clearly, he was buried with his God-given nose.

Will Rolling Stone retract its lie? Not on your life! Why not? Because a dead man can't be defamed. How convenient. How convenient for anyone in medialoid (mainstream media infected by tabloid journalism) who wants to make a buck on Michael Jackson--dead or alive. Defamers--all of you.

The text belongs to a friend of mine, Catherine. I hope you will meet this quote all over the net.:clapping:

Great post. I think we should email some of those medialoid with this post and asking them "How's your conscience dealing with the lies you spread?Wouldn't wanna be you."

 

[daisy]

Yes, that IS what happened, but whether or not he found him a minute later or 10 I am not sure either. 10 minutes is too late. You can't reverse it by then and that is why I think there is no flumazenil in the blood.

Thanks

however, we cannot say anything about Michael´s state prior to the moment he received propofol besides that he had benzo, correct?

I mean, we cannot tell by this strong (too strong) reaction to propofol that he might have been strongly influenced by benzo in the first place? Which could also mean that Michael was 1) unconscious and/or 2) already influenced to the point that administering even small amount of propofol could kill him?

 

[Mechi]

Yes, that IS what happened, but whether or not he found him a minute later or 10 I am not sure either. 10 minutes is too late. You can't reverse it by then and that is why I think there is no flumazenil in the blood.

Well he couldn't know how much later he found him first. But yes then it was obviously too late. And I guess he noticed then soon.
I'm sure that's why he didn't even call 911 too soon.
To me he wasn't that much in panic. To me he needed the time to try to cover what he did all motivated by greed cashing in from Michael.
And that's why 911 was called that late. Didn't matter anyways anymore.
Didn't work too well out for him, as he was too stupid.

But well four years in jail... come on... he'll probably get out much earlier... soooo...