Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Thriller_MJ;4288190 said:
Been a development in Wade/James's court case. It is now been postponed till June 25th (yea, that date, i know) this is the date Reed plans to be in court to film some proceedings but not everything.

http://mjjr.net/docs/WadeJamesStatusUpdate2020.pdf

There’s a separate thread for the court case over here. :)
https://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/threads/129320-Discussion-Sexual-Abuse-Claims-Against-MJ-Estate-Robson-Safechuck-Doe/page1206?p=4288186#post4288186
 
"There's two sides to every story but most of the time only one side is the truth."

“I would never teach hatred, ever. That’s not what I’m about.”

"Lies are as foolish as the people who spread them.”-Michael Jackson
 
At first i didn't know what everybody meant by filming but now i realize that dan reed gonna be filming the court case. i heard that Michael estate gonna do the samething as well. this is good news because the estate can show wade and james are lying. there's no way the can win this court case. :D
 
He wants to film . No doubt maybe to plan for another doc in the future if he gets permission to film in court when its actually gonna be intresting.

Taj said the estate should do the same ala mj with take two so it cant be twisted.whether the estate will care enough to ask permission ?
 
Did the Estate submit a request to record testimony too? I only saw Reed's.
 
Did the Estate submit a request to record testimony too? I only saw Reed's.

A request hasn't been shared by fans who acquire such court docs, as yet. It might be filed along with papers for the next hearing, I suppose...
 
It's been a rumor that the estate will record in the court from what I heard. if this not true then fans and people need to stop saying things like this until they know for sure.
 
Orpah really been getting it lately. yesterday a lot people call her out about donating money for 19.

also good news

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Finally <a href="https://t.co/3ezBPOECMS">pic.twitter.com/3ezBPOECMS</a></p>&mdash; Receipt Holder (@ReceiptHolder) <a href="https://twitter.com/ReceiptHolder/status/1255102043171237888?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 28, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
How come?

Because the court cases aren't about proving the abuse allegations are lies. They can't do that. The cases are about if Michael's companies have responsibility for the alleged abuse. Even if the Estate win, which they should, it doesn't have anything to do with proving that Robson and Safechuck are perjurers. The best thing that can happen from this is that Robson and Safechuck lose and don't get the money they're after. That's it. They don't go to jail and Michael's name isn't cleared.
 
I'm feeling 50/50 on how the court case will go. I'm leaning more towards the estate winning than R/S reason being, employment law states you cannot legally employ a minor to work for any company so if R/S are seeking damages for a company they weren't employed by, how will that add up in court? It won't.
 
Just a suggestion here, can we maybe discuss the court case in the court case thread? It makes it easier to keep track of everything and avoids double posts. :)
 
Who else feels there's no point of this if Michael name isn't cleared and everybody who tried to damage Michael not going to jail? that's not fair. they all need some kind of displaced. bringing stress to everyone and everything. that's not fair at all.
 
I've been reading about a woman's sexual assault claims against former US Vice President Joe Biden, and there are a number of echoes of the Wade/ Safechuck cases. I hope this high profile case will help more people to see that 'believe all accusers' is a bad idea...

Here are some quotes from a much longer article about the case:

Since Alexandra Tara Reade&#8217;s sexual assault allegations against former Vice President Joe Biden have come to light, careful examination of her account unveils more questions than answers.

.....She has evolved from a woman who repeatedly praised Joe Biden for work he&#8217;s done to help end sexual assault in America, in 2017, to someone who now says Biden sexually assaulted her in 1993.

.....a non-profit organization (a horse sanctuary) ....tells us that Tara Reade (McCabe) volunteered at her rescue for a couple of years (from 2014&#8211;2016). During this time, Hummer (the sanctuary owner) alleges that Reade &#8220;stole from her nonprofit, lied, and created stories to obtain sympathy and money.&#8221;

.....(The news organisation reporting this story) obtained receipts and emails that back up many of (the sanctuary's) claims.

McCabe/ Reade wrote to the horse sanctuary looking for a job, and was hired as a volunteer. (She subsequently asked for and was gifted a horse, but the article describes several attempts to acquire money or items from the horse rescue fraudulently).

(The horse rescue owner) never remembers Reade mentioning any sexual assault by Joe Biden, but does recall that she did mention she was a victim of abuse at the hands of her ex-husband. When it comes to any mention of Biden, Hummer says it was always positive in nature.

(The sanctuary owner) said 'Why would you talk about someone like that in such a positive way, in such a positive light, if this is someone who attacked you?&#8221;

https://medium.com/@eddiekrassenste...e-from-a-non-profit-organization-e276cac68a2b

A different article on the same subject says:

...We were able to contact a longtime friend of Reade&#8217;s who wished to remain anonymous, but they said they &#8220;do not believe her allegations,&#8221; claiming she has always been one to seek attention.

Every allegation of sexual assault must be taken seriously, and the #metoo movement has certainly given the victims of sexual harassment and assault a greater shield of confidence in coming forward with less fear of being attacked themselves. With this said, however, it is the media&#8217;s responsibility to thoroughly investigate accusations before jumping into a story and allowing those allegations to potentially destroy another human being, or, in this case, a political campaign. Every woman deserves to be heard, but every media outlet still has the responsibility of investigating and then relaying to the public all of the facts at face value.

While the allegations made by Reade are impossible to prove or disprove, examining Reade&#8217;s actions over the years and other evidence that has been archived on the internet, brings her honesty and integrity into question.
Below we will cover many of the inconsistencies in her story, the endless contradictions she has made over the years....

....in March of 2020, Reade says that Biden fired her.

(From twitter) ....it seems as though Reade is admitting that she&#8217;s waiting for the perfect time to release her new allegations in order to hurt Joe Biden&#8217;s campaign.

https://medium.com/@eddiekrassenste...assault-allegations-of-joe-biden-e4cb3ee38460

(medium.com has previously supported MJ in this article about debunking LN:

https://medium.com/@justhoughts/leaving-neverland-debunked-in-10-minutes-or-less-35d2017469ba )
 
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myosotis;4288412 said:
(medium.com has previously supported MJ in this article about debunking LN:

Just to clarify, medium.com is just a platform where anyone can publish anything. They don&#8217;t actively support what people post there. I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s what you meant to say anyway, but the way you put it kind of sounds like it. :)
 
Some "victims" are liars that want money. just like wade and james. there are victims who know wade and james are liars and that Michael is innocent.
 
ScreenOrigami;4288415 said:
Just to clarify, medium.com is just a platform where anyone can publish anything. They don&#8217;t actively support what people post there. I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s what you meant to say anyway, but the way you put it kind of sounds like it. :)

Thank you for putting me right. I thought they 'edited' their content (my mistake).

It's just coincidence then that independent-minded writers there have had the sense to see through 'me too'. Thank goodness somebody does, and writes about it. :)
 
myosotis;4288429 said:
It's just coincidence then that independent-minded writers there have had the sense to see through 'me too'. Thank goodness somebody does, and writes about it. :)

Coincidence, but also the fact that it&#8217;s hard to get articles critical of &#8220;metoo&#8221; published anywhere else in the current media climate.
 
Sensible conclusion to another article about the 'Biden' allegations. This article was written by a former Federal Prosecutor in Detroit and LA.:

I know that &#8220;Believe Women&#8221; is the mantra of the new decade. It is a response to a century of ignoring and excusing men&#8217;s sexual assaults against women. But men and women alike should not be forced to blindly accept every allegation of sexual assault for fear of being labeled a misogynist or enabler.

We can support the #MeToo movement and not support allegations of sexual assault that do not ring true. If these two positions cannot coexist, the movement is no more than a hit squad. That&#8217;s not how I see the #MeToo movement. It&#8217;s too important, for too many victims of sexual assault and their allies, to be no more than that.


Michael J. Stern, a member of USA TODAY's Board of Contributors

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opini...ault-allegation-tara-reade-column/3046962001/
 
A fan on Twitter has 'restored' this 'Frontline Special' called 'Tabloid Truth' to 'HD'.

For anyone who hasn't seen it it's a very clear and detailed report about how the tabloids operated re. the Chandler allegations, and how much money was paid to people who worked for MJ at Neverland, like the Quindoys and the LeMarques. '$20k is a cheap story...$100-$200k is enough to get a family to come forward and talk (and say what the tabloids want to hear).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg7xQUWjQNk

 
Another snippett about the allegations by Alexandra Tara Reade against Joe Biden, and similarity to the W/S cases (specifically to Safechuck and the Gutierrez book):

It appears Tara Reade&#8217;s father wrote a book. (Loss, A Love Story by Bob Moulton). On page 37 there&#8217;s a paragraph that should sound very familiar...it&#8217;s Tara Reade&#8217;s accusation &#8212; almost word for word.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...egations-Match-Scene-from-Dead-Father-s-Novel
 
Interesting article about the fallout from 'Leaving Neverland' for HBO Execs. It seems this vanity piece for Reed et. al. didn't go down well...:

Time Warner Boss May Not Be Happy with Russell Simmons Film

AT&T announced on Friday, April 24, that John Stankey had been promoted to CEO, succeeding Randall Stephenson in the role as of July 1.

AT&T is the media giant that includes Time Warner and HBO, where the new HBO Max is scheduled to kick off on May 27 with a controversial documentary about music icon Russell Simmons.

The fledgling HBO Max franchise has shied away from commenting about why it would not include Simmons or the more than two dozen witnesses he provided and those who have come forward on their own to refute allegations made by three women featured in the documentary.

However, as Stankey takes over, some insiders believe the film could be in jeopardy.

One person at HBO said, &#8220;Stankey certainly doesn&#8217;t welcome or need controversy right out of the gate and he doesn&#8217;t want another &#8216;Leaving Neverland&#8217; situation.&#8221;

The person, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he works for the parent HBO and isn&#8217;t authorized to speak for HBO Max, said Stankey &#8220;barely survived&#8221; &#8220;Leaving Neverland,&#8221; a documentary HBO aired in 2019 about allegations made by two men who said the late Michael Jackson sexually assaulted them when they were children.

That documentary eventually led to former CEO Richard Plepler stepping down amid a multimillion-dollar lawsuit filed by Jackson&#8217;s estate.

Shareholders of HBO and its parent company were livid that Plepler and Stankey had put their investments in a precarious position by not bowing to immense pressure and the powerful Jackson estate to back out of the film.


Because the Simmons&#8217; documentary feature three women &#8212; including the film&#8217;s lead, Drew Dixon &#8212; whose allegations against Simmons have mostly been disproven by a yearslong investigation by the Black Press, the insider said, it&#8217;s possible Stankey could be wary of another protracted, multimillion-dollar court battle &#8212; particularly for a fledgling network.

Further, Stankey is said to have already stated hesitation about the film because the influential Oprah Winfrey and Apple TV stepped away from it just before it screened at Sundance in January.

&#8220;Bottom line,&#8221; a source told Vanity Fair when Stankey was elevated to head CNN in 2018, &#8220;what everybody wants to know is: how&#8217;s [Stankey] gonna react when there&#8217;s a scandal? How&#8217;s he gonna react when somebody screws up? Hopefully, it&#8217;ll be a while before we have to find out.&#8221;

Those at HBO Max might soon find out.

In a letter first reported by the Hollywood Reporter that was sent to Stankey dated Feb. 25, 2019, an unnamed person criticized the wisdom of the Time Warner acquisition and took aim at managers, including then-Warner Bros. CEO Kevin Tsujihara and Plepler.

The nine-page document which redacted the shareholder&#8217;s name demanded an inspection of AT&T corporate records.

Tucked inside the missive was the outrage at HBO and Plepler&#8217;s green-lighting of &#8220;Leaving Neverland.&#8221; Shareholders argued that the nine-figure lawsuit that followed put all of their investments in danger. Plepler exited HBO three days later, The Hollywood Reporter noted.

Notably, the letter also put Stankey on notice for what shareholders said was his &#8220;hands-off approach&#8221; on some of the decisions it dubbed foolish and detrimental to stakeholders.

Currently, HBO Max is still planning to air the documentary despite minimal public backing.

The network has repeatedly declined to answer questions about the film, including why Oprah Winfrey abruptly walked away from the documentary that features three women &#8212; Sheri Sher, Drew Dixon and Sil Lai Abrams.

When Winfrey backed out, she said she wasn&#8217;t comfortable with the film and that it needed work.

&#8220;There were too many inconsistencies in Drew Dixon&#8217;s story,&#8221; Winfrey stated.

In a letter this week to Stephenson, a representative for Simmons took the network to task for excluding Simmons&#8217; side of the story. Simmons has never been charged with any crime and has passed nine prosecution-level lie detector tests about his innocence.

&#8220;When is it ever right to have a one-sided conversation, one where if you defend yourself against accusations by offering &#8216;your truth,&#8217; you are accused of shaming rather than having a difference in recollection and, or, understanding of events? One where in the case of late if you don&#8217;t&#8217; fully agree or own &#8216;your truth,&#8217; as long as the truth agrees with them, you are OK; if it does not, then you are entirely against and wrongly vilified,&#8221; the letter stated.

&#8220;[Simmons] has already issued countless detailed denials of false accusations against him including pages of sworn witness testimony from family members, clergy, journalists and friends, who were present at every stage, covered in the documentary you now own.

&#8220;These denials have been validated by his passing nine prosecution-grade lie detector tests, seven of them from the president of the California Polygraph Association.

&#8220;He has provided sworn statements and pointed out fatal flaws and inconsistencies in written accounts, some published in the very books authored by the subjects of your documentary.

&#8220;Other reputable media organizations have taken the opportunity to review and have acted responsibly by not publishing these stories. The social change from today&#8217;s activism is more important to the world his daughters will inherit than any narrative from false accusations of events from nearly 40 years ago.&#8221;

Neither Stankey nor Stephenson could be reached for comment.


https://www.washingtoninformer.com/time-warner-boss-may-not-be-happy-with-russell-simmons-film/
 
myosotis;4288608 said:
One person at HBO said, “Stankey certainly doesn’t welcome or need controversy right out of the gate and he doesn’t want another ‘Leaving Neverland’ situation.”

It's nice reading about LN in this context.
 
myosotis;4288608 said:
Shareholders of HBO and its parent company were livid that Plepler and Stankey had put their investments in a precarious position by not bowing to immense pressure and the powerful Jackson estate to back out of the film. [/B]

Still only about money & the &#8220;power&#8221; of MJ&#8217;s camp &#8230; They see the problem with the &#8220;situation&#8221; not in the film itself, but in the lawsuit and their potential financial loss. At least, that&#8217;s how I read it.

As people pointed out on Twitter, the article was written by Stacy Brown.
 
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