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Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

SmoothGangsta said:
I really don't understand why I'm getting replies explaining to me why kids were in MJs bedroom, I know this. I already said I am not speaking about MJs conduct in regards to children. We all know he was innocent. I am merely saying that it was in his best interests to not be doing that, because most people would not view it in the way that it actually was. As sad and unfortunate as that is. Many people throughout MJs life tried to let him know this, to protect him, but mj didn't see the danger.
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Preach.
 
Who thinks this thread should be closed? Leaving Neverland aired a year ago. while it still being talk about. nobody really on this anymore and all of us just bricking, hurting each other, and dividing us. :(
 
NatureCriminal7896 said:
Who thinks this thread should be closed? Leaving Neverland aired a year ago. while it still being talk about. nobody really on this anymore and all of us just bricking, hurting each other, and dividing us. :(
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It's not going to be closed. People just need to have more tolerance and respect for each other and remember we are all fans here.
 
Could someone who is of the opinion that MJ should have changed please describe the way they think he should have lived his life? What to do, what not to do etc. Just curious to learn what kind of behavior you think would have spared him the tabloid witch hunt.
 
ScreenOrigami said:
Could someone who is of the opinion that MJ should have changed please describe the way they think he should have lived his life? What to do, what not to do etc. Just curious to learn what kind of behavior you think would have spared him the tabloid witch hunt.
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You can start a new thread for that if you want, but we need to get back on topic. This thread isn't supposed to be a general discussion about all the allegations or whatever else, it's for LN.
 
Anna said:
You can start a new thread for that if you want, but we need to get back on topic. This thread isn't supposed to be a general discussion about all the allegations or whatever else, it's for LN.
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Just trying to understand what has been suggested by you and a few others in this thread.
 
We need to be careful making another thread. last year a thread was made like that and it cause whole a lot of drama and that many users got banned or either month off the site people left etc.

I'm not even sure why we got this far in this thread. :unsure:
 
ScreenOrigami said:
Just trying to understand what has been suggested by you and a few others in this thread.
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Then make a new thread. Or don't. But this conversation is done in here. My original post was in relation to LN and then everyone went off course.

Back on topic please.
 
Disappointing news for UK folk following on from the false allegations made by fantasist (and paedophile) Carl Beech who claimed there was a paedophile ring in the UK parliament (and was believed, largely due to pressure on the police from the then deputy leader of the Labour party, Tom Watson):
(Carl Beech's false stories about UK public figures have much in common with Wade's and James' stories about MJ.)

I'm glad that MJ's music is unlikely to be the topic of any decisions made by the organisation 'UK Music'! However, it's interesting how widely Tom Watson is being condemned at least among musicians, now that the Carl Beech trial (and enquiry) are over and his allegations have been proved to be false.
I hope that people like Reed etc who 'promoted' the false allegations against MJ might be equally condemned after the R&S cases are finished- but I'm not overly optimistic.

Tom Watson is the new boss of UK Music despite having fuelled a conspiracy culture that saw innocent stars accused of abuse... so it's no wonder leading voices from Tim Rice to Cliff Richard are joining in a chorus of outrage

- Prominent musical figures are publicly questioning his suitability for the role
- Mr Watson had notoriously promoted fake allegations of a VIP paedophile ring

........Last month it was announced that the former MP was the new chairman of UK Music, which represents record labels, composers, publishers and promoters.

He triumphed over 79 other applicants for the job which requires, according to the advert, 'a wide-ranging and relevant experience of the commercial music environment'.

But a backlash is in full swing. A number of prominent figures are publicly questioning Watson's suitability and claim his appointment to the reported £60,000, 40-days-a-year job was the result of a 'stitch up' by insiders with links to New Labour.

UK Music is even in danger of falling apart, as one of its most important member organisations is threatening to pull out if Mr Watson remains in the post.

Aside from his lack of music business experience, much of the disquiet centres on Watson's disastrous judgment in promoting fake allegations of a VIP paedophile ring fuelled by the claims of fantasist Carl Beech.

Beech, aka 'Nick', made a series of devastating false claims of child sex abuse against a number of famous politicians and soldiers, including former Home Secretary Leon Brittan and Normandy veteran Lord Bramall, who had their homes raided by police.

Watson's reckless intervention, using parliamentary privilege, helped create a febrile environment which also saw music legend Sir Cliff Richard and former Radio 1 DJ Paul Gambaccini investigated by police for separate unfounded sex allegations. The fallout from that scandal is ongoing and threatens to taint Watson's new employers.

Last night Sir Cliff, falsely accused of sex abuse in the wake of the Jimmy Savile scandal, made clear his opposition to Mr Watson's appointment in strongly worded statements released to the Mail.

He said of Mr Watson: 'I would certainly not want to be represented by him, for anything.'

A spokesman for the star said his views are shared by a number of prominent industry figures, who also object to the ex-Labour MP's new job. He said: 'Sir Cliff is surprised and concerned about the appointment of Mr Watson as Chairman of UK Music and the appropriateness of him representing artists and song writers.

'This is a view shared by Sir Tim Rice, Nicky Chinn, Mike Batt, Gary Osborne, Tony Hatch, Mitch Murray and Sharleen Spiteri amongst many others.'

Oscar winner Sir Tim, whose hit shows include The Lion King and Evita, told the Daily Mail: 'I have no knowledge of any musical experience or expertise that Mr Watson may or may not have.

However in view of the fact that by his actions in connection with Carl Beech he has assisted in seriously harming the lives of several people in the music business I find it extraordinary that he should be appointed to such an important position in the industry.'

Sir Tim spoke out after music industry veteran Mike Batt, who had hits with The Wombles and wrote Art Garfunkel's No. 1 hit Bright Eyes, posted an open letter on his website strongly condemning UK Music's decision.

It alleged that Watson has enemies across the political spectrum and is an unsuitable candidate to lead an organisation whose primary role is to represent the music industry to Westminster and Whitehall.

Alluding to the VIP child sex scandal, it states: 'Can the industry be assured of a welcome with Watson as its flagbearer, and if not, is it worth the risk?'

Last night Mr Batt told the Daily Mail: 'It's a massive own goal for UK Music to appoint this reviled man as chairman because it's a job that requires respect from and good relationships with all participants, plus a thorough knowledge of the industry's inner workings.'

Pop guru Chinn — who produced and wrote hits for Tina Turner, Mud and Sweet — said of the rebellion against Watson: 'This is an extremely serious attempt by very serious people to ensure someone with such a low moral compass combined with so little knowledge of the music business does not walk into a position of importance that he doesn't remotely merit.'

Mr Gambaccini, presenter of Radio 2's Pick Of The Pops, said the appointment of Watson 'is yet another kick in the teeth' for those in the 'falsely accused community' and one which 'breaks my heart'.

'Although I will continue to present the Ivors [awards organised by the Ivors Academy, a UK Music member] I feel completely estranged from the organisation itself, which I know supported the choice of Tom Watson.'

He added: 'This is Tom Watson who, when Carl Beech was imprisoned, could have offered a heartfelt apology to the people he had wronged, but who instead said, 'I was also a victim of Carl Beech'.

'No, Tom, you weren't. You were his enabler.'

Meanwhile, Richard Lyttelton — a former president of the Royal Albert Hall and EMI Classics and Jazz — told the Mail: 'My concerns about Tom Watson's appointment are based on his qualifications for the job, his apparent lack of moral compass, his seeming inability to determine facts [in the Beech affair] his credibility with government and the media and my understanding that there were better qualified candidates.'

..............There is another link between Labour and UK Music decision makers. Former rock musician Crispin Hunt is chairman of the Ivors Academy and one of UK Music's ten directors. He is also the stepson of Mark Fisher, culture minister in Tony Blair's government.

Mr Hunt has reportedly described Watson as 'the right person for the moment and beyond'.

Such a view is not shared, apparently, by Ged Doherty, chairman of the British Phonographic Industry, which represents 400 companies and runs the Brit Awards, Mercury Prize and Classic Brit Awards.

The BPI is the most powerful of the ten groups with representatives on the UK Music board and Mr Doherty has reportedly said Watson's appointment would cause damage 'equivalent to Momentum and the Labour Party'. There are real fears the BPI might quit the consortium.

Last night a spokesperson for UK Music, which declined to say how much Watson will earn, said: 'All UK Music's member organisations were actively involved in the extensive and widely advertised recruitment process for the new Chair which culminated in the appointment of Tom Watson.

'It was ratified by the UK Music board in March and widely welcomed across the music industry.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...trage-Tom-Watsons-new-role-UK-Music-boss.html

UK Music:
UK Music is an industry-funded body, established in October 2008, to represent the collective interests of the recorded, published and live arms of the British music industry.

Through collective representation, UK Music promotes the interests of record labels and music publishers (major and independent), songwriters, composers, lyricists, musicians, managers, producers, promoters, venues and collection societies.

Through member engagement we ensure a collective voice across the sector is identified. Through lobbying we ensure that voice is heard.

UK Music exists to guide policy makers towards decision-making in the best interests of our sector and the best collective interests of our membership, now and for the future.
UK Music represents and promotes the interests of every part of the British music industry.
UK Music publishes research on the economic value of the music industry to the UK economy in our Music By Numbers report and its predecessor reports Measuring Music and Wish You Were Here.
UK Music works to ensure that the copyright, which underpins music, is recognised and valued at all levels of Government, throughout the wider economy and by consumers.

https://www.ukmusic.org/about/
 
Jobs for the boys. Thats the uk for you. More bothered about why he got the job in the first place rather than been taken in by beech. No sympathy for most of them as they were quick enough to judge mj
 
You can find a block list somewhere on Twitter that includes 90% of those trolls. Find that and block all those accounts and you’ll live in relative peace. ;)
 
ScreenOrigami;4288056 said:
You can find a block list somewhere on Twitter that includes 90% of those trolls. Find that and block all those accounts and you’ll live in relative peace. ;)
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okay.
 
myosotis said:
Maybe that needs a new thread? (ie just for blocking and reporting)? There are a zillion trolls on twitter.... (and indeed on every platform).
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Nahhh. I think if we do we probably wanna write account names to ourselves. we don't want the trolls and haters coming on here and bugging us.... or should we? there's a thread of people we should avoid. so maybe we should put those accounts there?
 
NatureCriminal7896;4288061 said:
Nahhh. I think if we do we probably wanna write account names to ourselves. we don't want the trolls and haters coming on here and bugging us.... or should we? there's a thread of people we should avoid. so maybe we should put those accounts there?
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Honestly, we shouldn’t make them too aware that they’re blocked. Remember, when we block them they can’t see what we tweet or that we tweet at all. We’re practically invisible to them until they make a new account and start over. Calling them out only makes them create more troll accounts. Veni, vidi, blocky. Don’t make much noise about it. ;)
 
Greez sorry i didn't know. i was only showing just to give us warning. i didn't realize websites like that exists.
 
NatureCriminal7896;4288109 said:
Greez sorry i didn't know. i was only showing just to give us warning. i didn't realize websites like that exists.
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For everything good in the world, a hater website exists. That’s not something exclusive to MJ. ;)
Although his haters are of course on the extreme side of the spectrum of hate.
 
This is a good new interview with Taj on YT channel 'Hugging the Cactus'.
It covers the issues around LN and the following Oprah TV show in 'just enough' detail, without being overwhelming for those who are unaware of the facts.

(Edit Part 2 interview added below. Unfortunately the video in the second half of Part 2 has no picture of Taj, though the audio is fine. )

(There are indications in the comments that YT 'demonetised' this video, which to me also seems to add to the 'evidence' that the media don't want the truth to be publicised.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0Bc3WPcxwM&feature=youtu.be


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmAc8n_-nos

 
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ScreenOrigami said:
Although his haters are of course on the extreme side of the spectrum of hate.
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You're about that. greez what buttholes. these people really don't have nothing to do with life if they make a website like this. like ugh. it's really best to ignore these people. karma does comes to people like this. i see it a lot and been happening a lot since LN aired.
 
also please calm down guys greez. i don't understand somethings. if i make a mistake or something then sorry....
 
NatureCriminal7896 said:
A another account that needs to be block and reported

https://twitter.com/Valhalla2049
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You all have to stop thinking this is alot people doing this. This is often the same few folks, they get banned on twitter and come back with another account. This fool blocked me months ago when I go hard after him. Also, some of these folks are real pedos hiding behind the scene and deflecting their sickness onto MJ. I have had two of those block me. I can spot these kinds of sickos a mile away in they way they response and post. And of course the trolls which everyone has trolls.
 
It's so strange to me, whatever your beliefs or opinions on anything, that a person would choose to spend any amount of time (let alone a significant amount) participating in behaviour so negative with nothing constructive to be gained from it. Or wallowing in a subject they have so much disgust or hatred for. Or telling everyone they are wrong all the time. Why put yourself through it?

Like, channel your energies into something good. Something positive. Or learn something. Or read something. Or go pick up litter.

There are people I don't particularly like in this world, but it's a big place, there's room for us all, and I choose to spend time pursuing the things that inspire me and make me happy. I feel sorry for them.
 
As some one who has depression there are times where i feel "sad" etc. but i would never hurt anyone just because i'm depressed. i do not know these people personally. but i think these people are the ones who needs help. these people have either too time in their hands or have a lot miserable in them.

either these people are poor and miserable (which is not good together and i don't think their poor if they can do this) or just miserable with too much time in their hands.

i don't get people either. why spread hate when you can do something good for the world? heck even Michael said this and he's their target. i bet Michael when to many hospitals etc donate then half these people ever would.

through that's not saying you still can't help the world without money.

Michael never hated anyone. i don't either. people like this have broken hearts.

i feel everyone should have a opinion whatever they feel about this case through i also feel if they believe Michael is guilty. can they like do it without hate?

Michael was and always be innocent. if they believe he guilty then theirs opinions. i honestly wouldn't hate them because hey, they believe Michael guilty through there a lot things out there that shows he is innocent.

but if it's comes to a point where they saying hatful things about Michael etc. (which they pretty much do and still does.) i wouldn't wanna be around them.

at the end of the day this is Michael to some people. i think as fans and supports just need to face that. yes it's sad. but what can we do about it? the only thing i can guess is the court case. but after that wouldn't do any good.(?)

the damaged is done. Michael will forever have this on him. :( i feel bad for the family etc. but hey, it is what it is.

one thing about this Michael legacy will continue it just always have dents in it. i say stay away from the dents and focusing more the good about Michael.

it won't be easy of course, but there's no differences between now and then when the fake lies came out. so hey. *shrugs*

my mother is a huge MJ fan and she knows this as well. my mother knows Michael is innocent. but she also knows that Michael has haters and dents in his legacy.

it doesn't bother her and it really doesn't bother me either.
 
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NatureCriminal7896 said:
As some one who has depression there are times where i feel "sad" etc. but i would never hurt anyone just because i'm depressed. i do not know these people personally. but i think these people are the ones who needs help. these people have either too time in their hands or have a lot miserable in them.

either these people are poor and miserable (which is not good together and i don't think their poor if they can do this) or just miserable with too much time in their hands.

i don't get people either. why spread hate when you can do something good for the world? heck even Michael said this and he's their target. i bet Michael when to many hospitals etc donate then half these people ever would.

through that's not saying you still can't help the world without money.

Michael never hated anyone. i don't either. people like this have broken hearts.

i feel everyone should have a opinion whatever they feel about this case through i also feel if they believe Michael is guilty. can they like do it without hate?

Michael was and always be innocent. if they believe he guilty then theirs opinions. i honestly wouldn't hate them because hey, they believe Michael guilty through there a lot things out there that shows he is innocent.

but if it's comes to a point where they saying hatful things about Michael etc. (which they pretty much do and still does.) i wouldn't wanna be around them.

at the end of the day this is Michael to some people. i think as fans and supports just need to face that. yes it's sad. but what can we do about it? the only thing i can guess is the court case. but after that wouldn't do any good.(?)

the damaged is done. Michael will forever have this on him. :( i feel bad for the family etc. but hey, it is what it is.

one thing about this Michael legacy will continue it just always have dents in it. i say stay away from the dents and focusing more the good about Michael.

it won't be easy of course, but there's no differences between now and then when the fake lies came out. so hey. *shrugs*

my mother is a huge MJ fan and she knows this as well. my mother knows Michael is innocent. but she also knows that Michael has haters and dents in his legacy.

it doesn't bother her and it really doesn't bother me either.
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One thing i can say, my mother is very lucky to have a family who supports her likes. my family are MJ fans as well because of her. :) most people in my family are around when he was just a child on stage singing etc. so let's be real. our family is basically generation after generation of MJ fans. which is good if you ask me. most people don't have that.
 
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