Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

You guys remember that movie "Fatal Attraction?" Some of those folks out there, especially that Reed character and Robson, might have a weird, creepy attraction to Michael. I believe they got something to hide...
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I'm interested in hearing what Charlamagne Tha God had to say from the Breakfast Club radio show. Someone here said he ripped them to shreds. What did they say?
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I have no words for this shit about Oprah and her friends watching this on a yacht. And that tweet from Gayle King, about how she feels their pain, thanks the director. Just **** the hell off. Crawl into that man's behind why don't you? Jesus christ, I am so, so....SO fed up with this stuff. I guess it remains to be seen what Oprah thinks of it but I don't trust her at all. And she has a huge influence, which is not good.

The fact that the Jacksons just can't see this doc, yet Oprah can. Also, this Geffen dude, wasn't MJ very against that fellow?

You guys remember that movie "Fatal Attraction?" Some of those folks out there, especially that Reed character and Robson, might have a weird, creepy attraction to Michael. I believe they got something to hide...

I think the filmmaker Dan Reed is a pedophile. In the movie he directs the audience to focus on graphic pediophilic sexual acts, and not on ways to eliminate pedophilia. This not Dan Reed's first film
on the topic of pedophilia. His previous film was titled "Pediophile Hunters". I venture to guess he will be returning to the topic of pedophilia, again and again.
 
CherubimII;4239189 said:
I think the filmmaker Dan Reed is a pedophile. In the movie he directs the audience to focus on graphic pediophilic sexual acts, and not on ways to eliminate pedophilia. This not Dan Reed's first film
on the topic of pedophilia. His previous film was titled "Pediophile Hunters". I venture to guess he will be returning to the topic of pedophilia, again and again.

I agree. I also think Reed is a pedophile. There’s something strange in that he seems to get sexual gratification in man/boy sex and he wanted those liars to be as graphic as possible. I feel the exact same with NAMBLA member/pedofile, Victor Guiterrez’s. The trash book that he wrote describes HIS fantasies, not Michael’s. I am also suspect and feel that Wade Robson is a pedo. My reasoning is that all the claims against Michael are what he could possibly be wishing he could do to his own son. He claimed that he looked at his baby son and began to think of sexual things, that were supposedly done to him. His wife really needs to watch him. I would not feel safe with a child of mine around Wade Robson. His claims reek of pedophilic fantasy.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Love Never Felt So Good w Justin just on Irelands biggest radio station. Never sounded so good.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Just saw that it has a 100% rating on RottenTomatoes. Not good.

#MeTooStupidToThinkForMyself #MeTooScaredToQuestionAccusers
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

From Canada. It is MIND BOGGLING how all of this is allowed to happen and people are so lazy to look up any facts. It's astonishing.

I had my sister in law tell my wife, "Ohh boy he's going to lose his sh** when he sees this documentary"

She was talking about me to my wife.

I'm like oh man. This crap is all old and proven to be BS

NOBODY wants to look anything up. Such a reckless and lazy time period we live in. People just believe whatever they see.

Never mind Michael Jackson, this kind of lynching shouldn't happen to anybody. It's unheard of.

That a** kisser Gayle King. I cannot believe she was so irresponsible and tweeted that out. Just believes them right away. How unintelligent can you get?
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Was talking to my sister about this. She was like "well, whatever happened, I will still listen to his music but I don't know what happened." I sensed something and asked what she meant and she was like "Well, we don't really know what happened." and I mentioned things like the court documents and she said "well, those things might not always be right."

God.

Meanwhile, my 15-year old brother is dealing with kids at his school who are calling Michael a pedophile with one girl saying she has facts... when my brother acts for those facts she says she is hiding them. What the F!
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I'm interested in hearing what Charlamagne Tha God had to say from the Breakfast Club radio show. Someone here said he ripped them to shreds. What did they say?

Really? Interesting. CTG has always held the belief that MJ was guilty.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

It means they could have got paid through Wade's foundation and no one will ever know. How convenient.

ahhhh i get it now that little turd
 
somewhereinthedark;4239190 said:
I agree. I also think Reed is a pedophile. There’s something strange in that he seems to get sexual gratification in man/boy sex and he wanted those liars to be as graphic as possible. I feel the exact same with NAMBLA member/pedofile, Victor Guiterrez’s. The trash book that he wrote describes HIS fantasies, not Michael’s. I am also suspect and feel that Wade Robson is a pedo. My reasoning is that all the claims against Michael are what he could possibly be wishing he could do to his own son. He claimed that he looked at his baby son and began to think of sexual things, that were supposedly done to him. His wife really needs to watch him. I would not feel safe with a child of mine around Wade Robson. His claims reek of pedophilic fantasy.

That Wade and James can ne pedophils cames in my mind too, two days ago, but I was afraid to speak it out.
They can have all the motivativation with this movie to make their illness more acceptable.
I think this is maybe motivation from the peple behind MJFacts and coloberation channels too.
They defenitly belong to Wade and James.

englishhooligan;4239194 said:
Meanwhile, my 15-year old brother is dealing with kids at his school who are calling Michael a pedophile with one girl saying she has facts... when my brother acts for those facts she says she is hiding them. What the F!

The young Michael Jackson Fans at school are the fans we should really think about in these days.
Those people had hardest times in 1994 and 2013-2015 and when I remeber many comments I read last year on youtube from those young MJ fans the treatment doesn't really get better til the days before this documentery.
It must be horrible now!
On those peple again the ignorant, selfish, media, the haters and other suporters don't think about when they promote this documentery and calling MJ guilty or a childmolester, but we should not forget them and pray for them in these next weeks and months!
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I am new here although I have been visiting this forum for several years.

It feels like someone should compile a document that bullet points exactly what proof is provided in this documentary in column A compared to proof of MJ's innocence in column B.
 
I find the comments below made by Wade Robson on his blog very interesting.

"I was absolutely obsessed with Michael Jackson. When I was five years old, I won a dance contest and the prize was to meet him. This encounter only exacerbated my idolization."

Does this not contradic Robson the accusations that MJJ Productions was finding "young children" for Michael Jackson?

Wade Robson is clearly well aware that it was a dance competition that he won that led him to Michael Jackson.

"My dance life began to take off and being that my Mother was also my chaperone, manager, and driver, most of my time was spent with her. Dad seemed to be slowly moving into the background of my life."

"Dad seemingly floating further and further into the background of my life. I was so focused on Michael that I noticed Dad less and less."

"I found out that the idea that I may have been sexually abused by Michael Jackson caused Dad a lot of anxiety, guilt and depression over the years."

"I was faced with guilt, shame and sadness due to how I pulled away from him over the years, how I called Michael “Dad,” how I was too busy to talk so many times, and how I couldnʻt seem to bring myself to care enough to try and understand him while he was alive. Now that I was a Father myself, I wept numerous times, as I could now imagine how he felt as his little boy, little girl and the woman he loved walked out the door and moved to the other side of the world. "

It's clear that Wade Robson regrets not having a strong relationship with his father and blames the relationship with Michael as the cause for this.

Is this enough of a motive to destroy everything about his past in relation to Michael by seeing him as a child abuser?

Is he channelling all his guilt and regret onto Michael so he doesn't feel the blame for the failed relationship between him and his father?

“There is nothing you have to do.” These words became a mantra and played an instrumental role in my having the courage to redesign my life."

"redesign my life"

Again, is he trying to 'redesign' his past by destroying his memories of Michael and his reputation thus destroying anything to do with him, is this the only way he can accept what happened to his father?

Wade's father killed himself in 2002.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Just saw that it has a 100% rating on RottenTomatoes. Not good.

#MeTooStupidToThinkForMyself #MeTooScaredToQuestionAccusers

A 100% rating? That's really bad yeah, what the hell man.

As for Oprah. I wouldn't dare to call her MJ's friend, but she did interview Lisa Marie and I believe she denied any of those allegations. Oprah is no dumb person, she has seen how the media was towards MJ during the trial, she has seen how he was fully acquitted. I would hope she does or has does some research and that she sees this doc for what it is. Extremely one-sided and zero actual evidence.

I would hope so, but at the same time I don't trust this woman one bit. My friend says he has always felt there is a very different side to her, a two face. I have had that feeling too.

If all these people that saw it, reviewed it with ridiculous ratings only truly knew about the two subjects. I really feel sorry for these people that they are so damn easy to convince of something with so very little, nothing basically. Before this airs on TV I really hope a lot of people have seen the facts thanks to videos and sites, but j doubt it.

Question.

Can this thing become a trial, even when MJ is no more around us? Can they cross examine this doc, the two accusers and show how full of lies, contradictions and holes it is to the judge or even jury? Yesterday I spoke to my friend about this and he said he'd love to see headlines on newspapers and sites saying W&S are proven liars, arrested, going to jail.

That is my wish too, but could such a thing ever happen? Best possible thing that can happen is that it's thrown out or that the estate wins and hopefully we can count on the media to actual report that fact, sigh. Of course if Dan is gonna bring a third, we can expect to be reading tons of trash until the trial has ended.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

It's bad. Getting worse.

TV2 - one of the biggest TV stations in Denmark has a Good evening show - with many viewers - they discussed they new doc - and talked about if it was possiple to still listen to MJ's music... - They even talked about Spotify should remove his music... More and more danish news medias are reporting this now.

DR1 - the biggest channel in Denmark - will show Leaving Neverland later this year... - That will be very very bad... - Danish fans are trying to stop it, but I doubt they will succed...

The Estate or someone really needs to do something very very soon. - And it has to come loud so all the medias will show it. This is very damaging to MJ and his music.

I even read a journalist who, after he had seen the doc wanted Youtube and Spotify - and other video/song services to remove all MJ content...
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Oprahs always been an uncle tom. She wouldnt have been known outside of the usa if it werent for the interview with mj.over the years shes taken shots at him whenever she could. Upto the blatent lies she told about how mj acted behind the scenes during the interview. Totally refuted when those with footage leaked it inorder to shut her up

In the past she worked with the world of wonder production company.the same company who wanted to turn guiterrez book into a film yet claims this fake advocacy of abuse b.s because of what she claims happened to her in order to get her more support. Shes quite happy to be part of a lynchmob.who the hell would even except of a copy of this tape to watch on your birthday on a yacht.thats weird in itself.of course we know this is all P.R by reed. Get the tape out to haters who will spread via twitter etc to their brainless followers. and used as a diversion tactic for the likes of weinstein. And the uncle tom is quite happy to do it.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

A 100% rating? That's really bad yeah, what the hell man.

As for Oprah. I wouldn't dare to call her MJ's friend, but she did interview Lisa Marie and I believe she denied any of those allegations. Oprah is no dumb person, she has seen how the media was towards MJ during the trial, she has seen how he was fully acquitted. I would hope she does or has does some research and that she sees this doc for what it is. Extremely one-sided and zero actual evidence.
Wrong.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

oprah has always thought mj was guilty
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I wouldn't rely on Oprah. I don't understand people's fascination with her. Long as she stays out of it I'll be happy.

Don't expect the media to support Michael they didn't in the past why would they now.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I've been doing some thinking about this and...

Even after he was acquitted I feel there have always been people that were still on the fence. Whether that was about Arvizo or Chandler I don't know but clearly there have always been those that had doubts. We also had a side that felt like "too many kids, there has to be something." which basically are the ones that just believe it and will easily eat this up as fact and the haters.

We ignore the haters and the ones that believe it, there's no helping those. The first one, those on the fence need to know what it's really about. That is if they are willing to listen and read, preferably before this filth airs on TV because if not I can easily see them being convinced too. Even more so now that Dan Reed has mentioned there's a third one. This brings me to I believe it was Chris Rock years ago, he went like "another kid Michael, another kid?" in his show. And sadly that's how a lot of people's minds work, that's how their logic works. Especially today with the MeToo movement where it's quite clearly expected of you to side with the accuser immediately.


This is why I can never be down with them. Weinstein? Oh absolutely. But there have been baseless accusations against Morgan Freeman all of a sudden and I saw these forums going "what a pervert, disgusting man, can't watch his movies anymore." when I said I rather do my research first a little and not jump to any conclusions.... bad move, sigh. More of than not it's true they said. And that made me think of MJ immediately and how I can never back such a movement.

Yesterday when I clicked that tweet about Oprah I also saw tweets by The Sun in the comments about how child porn and animal torture porn material had been found. The same filth those tabloids brought years ago and sigh, quite clearly was all bullshit, fabricated. Had such a thing been found he would have been behind bars. Now I know, the sun, who cares, we sure don't, we know what lowlives they are. But fact remains is that tons of people do read it and eat it up as fact too because this comes on top of the Dan Reed's trash.

:(
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier;4239207 said:
I've been doing some thinking about this and...

Even after he was acquitted I feel there have always been people that were still on the fence. Whether that was about Arvizo or Chandler I don't know but clearly there have always been those that had doubts. We also had a side that felt like "too many kids, there has to be something." which basically are the ones that just believe it and will easily eat this up as fact and the haters.

We ignore the haters and the ones that believe it, there's no helping those. The first one, those on the fence need to know what it's really about. That is if they are willing to listen and read, preferably before this filth airs on TV because if not I can easily see them being convinced too. Even more so now that Dan Reed has mentioned there's a third one. This brings me to I believe it was Chris Rock years ago, he went like "another kid Michael, another kid?" in his show. And sadly that's how a lot of people's minds work, that's how their logic works. Especially today with the MeToo movement where it's quite clearly expected of you to side with the accuser immediately.


This is why I can never be down with them. Weinstein? Oh absolutely. But there have been baseless accusations against Morgan Freeman all of a sudden and I saw these forums going "what a pervert, disgusting man, can't watch his movies anymore." when I said I rather do my research first a little and not jump to any conclusions.... bad move, sigh. More of than not it's true they said. And that made me think of MJ immediately and how I can never back such a movement.

Yesterday when I clicked that tweet about Oprah I also saw tweets by The Sun in the comments about how child porn and animal torture porn material had been found. The same filth those tabloids brought years ago and sigh, quite clearly was all bullshit, fabricated. Had such a thing been found he would have been behind bars. Now I know, the sun, who cares, we sure don't, we know what lowlives they are. But fact remains is that tons of people do read it and eat it up as fact too because this comes on top of the Dan Reed's trash.

:(

The damage this doc could do is to turn those people who have given MJ the benefit of the doubt since 2005 after he was acquitted. The public falls into 3 camps - those who always have and always will believe he was guilty, the fans like us who do the research and understand the facts who believe he is innocent, and then the majority of people in the middle who don’t really know for sure what the truth is but have been willing to give MJ the benefit of the doubt after his acquittal in 2005. It’s this last group where most of the damage could be done. It could sway a whole section of the public to believe he must have been guilty.

Ive said this several times now, and I still think that this documentary has the potential to derail MJ’s legacy more than 1993 or 2005. He is not here to defend himself. There is no trial with the prospect of an acquittal, which forced certain people to shut up and crawl back under their rocks back in ‘05. Plus this time, graphic allegations directly from the mouth of his accusers will he beamed on TV screens all over the world. The last factor is the age we live in. The pressure from the public with these sorts of things has reached fever pitch, and there will be numerous calls backed up by the media to silence MJ’s music in public and to call for a boycott.

This is where rhe Estate comes in. They have been through the litigation with Wade and Jimmy over the last 5 years. They are armed with the facts, the lies, the changing stories, the previous denials and Cirque du Soleil situation with Wade. They have the ability to shut some of this down and start to shift the narrative from MJ being an alleged paedophile to Wade and Jimmy’s lack of credibility and money motives. If the Estate don’t respond to this properly, they will be partly responsible for MJ’s legacy being trashed. Because even if this all blows over, even if there is just a few days of media outrage after the doc airs and then things die down, a while swathe of the public will now believe MJ to be guilty where they may not have before. It can’t just be business as usual after that. They can’t just release another statement and then carry on as if nothing has happened. They have to fight this publicly.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

the estate need to come in like ASAP
 
dmehta;4239208 said:
The damage this doc could do is to turn those people who have given MJ the benefit of the doubt since 2005 after he was acquitted. The public falls into 3 camps - those who always have and always will believe he was guilty, the fans like us who do the research and understand the facts who believe he is innocent, and then the majority of people in the middle who don’t really know for sure what the truth is but have been willing to give MJ the benefit of the doubt after his acquittal in 2005. It’s this last group where most of the damage could be done. It could sway a whole section of the public to believe he must have been guilty.

Ive said this several times now, and I still think that this documentary has the potential to derail MJ’s legacy more than 1993 or 2005. He is not here to defend himself. There is no trial with the prospect of an acquittal, which forced certain people to shut up and crawl back under their rocks back in ‘05. Plus this time, graphic allegations directly from the mouth of his accusers will he beamed on TV screens all over the world. The last factor is the age we live in. The pressure from the public with these sorts of things has reached fever pitch, and there will be numerous calls backed up by the media to silence MJ’s music in public and to call for a boycott.

This is where rhe Estate comes in. They have been through the litigation with Wade and Jimmy over the last 5 years. They are armed with the facts, the lies, the changing stories, the previous denials and Cirque du Soleil situation with Wade. They have the ability to shut some of this down and start to shift the narrative from MJ being an alleged paedophile to Wade and Jimmy’s lack of credibility and money motives. If the Estate don’t respond to this properly, they will be partly responsible for MJ’s legacy being trashed. Because even if this all blows over, even if there is just a few days of media outrage after the doc airs and then things die down, a while swathe of the public will now believe MJ to be guilty where they may not have before. It can’t just be business as usual after that. They can’t just release another statement and then carry on as if nothing has happened. They have to fight this publicly.

Considering what we have seen happen in recent times, most recently with R Kelly, I have never understood why some MJ fans refuse to believe this is worse than 93 or 05.

In '93 TWO grand juries rejected the case against MJ.
In '05 after a trial which included evidence from '93 acquitted MJ. That DID A LOT to restore faith in MJ's innosence for many, many people.
MJ's image was recovering well by the time he died in '09 and after his death there was great deal of positivity toward his career and achievements, often exclipsing the personal life and allegations.
Now there CAN NEVER BE an acquittal. These allegations can go untested by law, accusers can claim ANYTHING they like, WHENEVER they like. I have said this from the moment the documentary was announced. This is FAR WORSE than '93 or '05. Far worse.

Fans responding to fans using the acquittal as evidence that MJ wasn't an abuser completely miss the point. The trial DID NOT consider whether MJ abused Robson or Safechuck. The acquittal proves nothing. Sure, they stated they weren' abused at that time, and they now claim that was false, but in any case MJ was tried on the alleged abuse of Arvizo. That is all that was covered by the trial. Nothing else.

If signifiant effort is not made to undermine the claims SOON then MJ's commercial prospects are finished. I'm serious!#


I said it when the documentary was announced and was told I was wrong, well look what's happening!
 
dmehta;4239208 said:
The damage this doc could do is to turn those people who have given MJ the benefit of the doubt since 2005 after he was acquitted. The public falls into 3 camps - those who always have and always will believe he was guilty, the fans like us who do the research and understand the facts who believe he is innocent, and then the majority of people in the middle who don’t really know for sure what the truth is but have been willing to give MJ the benefit of the doubt after his acquittal in 2005. It’s this last group where most of the damage could be done. It could sway a whole section of the public to believe he must have been guilty.

Ive said this several times now, and I still think that this documentary has the potential to derail MJ’s legacy more than 1993 or 2005. He is not here to defend himself. There is no trial with the prospect of an acquittal, which forced certain people to shut up and crawl back under their rocks back in ‘05. Plus this time, graphic allegations directly from the mouth of his accusers will he beamed on TV screens all over the world. The last factor is the age we live in. The pressure from the public with these sorts of things has reached fever pitch, and there will be numerous calls backed up by the media to silence MJ’s music in public and to call for a boycott.

This is where rhe Estate comes in. They have been through the litigation with Wade and Jimmy over the last 5 years. They are armed with the facts, the lies, the changing stories, the previous denials and Cirque du Soleil situation with Wade. They have the ability to shut some of this down and start to shift the narrative from MJ being an alleged paedophile to Wade and Jimmy’s lack of credibility and money motives. If the Estate don’t respond to this properly, they will be partly responsible for MJ’s legacy being trashed. Because even if this all blows over, even if there is just a few days of media outrage after the doc airs and then things die down, a while swathe of the public will now believe MJ to be guilty where they may not have before. It can’t just be business as usual after that. They can’t just release another statement and then carry on as if nothing has happened. They have to fight this publicly.

It's most definitely up to the estate and/or Jacksons now. They can't keep relying on the fans to provide people with facts because that only goes so far. Face to face it mostly ends up in the non believer calling you obsessed or "why do you care so much" or basically that those facts could be wrong too. So goddamn tiresome!

Yesterday I read that statement by the estate's online team and it sounds like they are planning on something. Just because we hear nothing doesn't mean they are sitting still. We can only guess on what they might be planning to do. Even if it does come as far as coming very close to Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal, Google Music removing his music, which honestly I think is very,very far away from happening if at all, not even Kelly's music is removed. But let's just say we get dangerously close to that, I can't see the estate just sitting by the sidelines and not make drastic moves. Because that's the part where their money starts to be jeopardized.

Worst case scenario is that a big amount of people really turn against MJ and never listen to his music or watch the videos anymore. I truly hope the estate's plans are something very big. I mean they sure are quiet and the fact that someone from them was at the festival and doc.... I would like to believe that this means something. Is it possible they might be planning on taking it to court? Like you said, they have history with Robson in court. Maybe they are waiting so they all can see the doc first, so that they can debunk it even more?
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Yesterday when I clicked that tweet about Oprah I also saw tweets by The Sun in the comments about how child porn and animal torture porn material had been found. The same filth those tabloids brought years ago and sigh, quite clearly was all bullshit, fabricated. Had such a thing been found he would have been behind bars. Now I know, the sun, who cares, we sure don't, we know what lowlives they are. But fact remains is that tons of people do read it and eat it up as fact too because this comes on top of the Dan Reed's trash.

:(

Dan Wootton, a guy who was on the Lorraine show on UK TV and called MJ a paedophile said this documentary was a long time coming and finally the victims are being heard etc. He's executive editor of the Sun.

What I find amazing is that somebody who is involved in a rag like the Sun, one of the most blatantly unreliable newspapers actually seems to believe MJ was a criminal and has no problem stating it as fact on TV. He knows how currupt the news and yet still believes the media's stories. How is that possible? Even if it was because he grew up reading the inaccurate reports in the press, as I have considered previously, then surely now he's in the industry he would have to reconsider all the "facts" from the past.

I put him on blast on Twitter last night. A despicable person working for a despicable newspaper.
 
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