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Child prodigy Michael: when did YOU think he started? LOL

Yeah, exactly. I would imagine it takes being pretty tough to come out alright or not self-destructive, like youd said. It can turn bad so easily.
 
So true. That's why Michael Jackson survived child stardom. He didn't let it overshadow his quest though his career did take some turns where things could've been real tragic and it didn't, lol. You know? I'm sure Michael will start to look back at his childhood with renewed appreciation.
 
Yeah. Compared to some of the things that have happened to him in his adult life, his childhood could look a lot worse. Michael's strength is the stuff of myth when you think about it. At the same time, Michael's childhood really led to a lot of the problems that happened later in his and really sort of shaped a lot of his outlook on life and the direction it took.
 
troubleman84 said:
I honestly think any hurt Joe conflicted after 1966 was mainly MENTAL rather than PHYSICAL. People forget that Joe used to verbally assault his children during rehearsals, it wasn't just the physical punishment. Michael said during Jackson 5 performances in the early years (maybe before Motown) that Michael's dad didn't really show any emotion. Michael probably knows that fathers back in the day used corporal punishment on their kids but it wasn't that that made him mad against his dad in the years following. Michael said his father never told him he loved him or the other kids, that they refer to him as either Joseph or Papa Joe. Michael thought talking about his painful relationship with his dad would solve things but he didn't know that it would only make things worse. I think Michael realizes now why his father was so hot-headed. When you are yourself raised with a father who don't treat you like you think a father should, you start to react that way but I think Michael saw something in Joe that the media and us as fans don't see and that's why Michael gives him children the love Joe may have neglected to give him. And the lack of Joe's emotions toward Michael in a loving sense may have a reason to do to why Michael was so determined and driven in his career because until "Off the Wall", everything Mike did was to PLEASE his father. That was a reason for Marvin Gaye in that sense too though his father didn't manage his son's secular career.
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I appreciate your post right here...becuz you don't simplify the relationship unlike the media and some people like to do. Whether or not his father beat him and if he did, how often and how strong,etc. these issues are important (it makes a difference esp. when the way physical punishment is done is considered, not just whether it was done or not-I know this from my experience.....), but like you said, mainly the lack of emotional connection goes way deeper. I've always thought Joe is one of the past generation's fathers who are usually tough and don't express affection at all or clearly to reach out to their kids. I'm from Korea, but I can relate to that cuz many fathers' traditional role in Korea have been that way. So, mothers play a dominant role in providing the kids with their affective needs. You know, being emotionally supportive.

One thing that I share with Michael as a kid is the type of relationship with my father....So, I think I can see similar emotions that he has toward his father.....It's very complex. There's love and respect of course. And at the same time there's fear and pain. That's why we cannot define their relationship with a few words and say "End of discussion!" We'd never know the exact picure as those outside lookin in. Relationships in family within general are hard to describe exactly the way it is, if you're not the very ones in it.
 
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See, I like it when people look at this from several different perspectives. I often see fans who dismiss Michael's emotions over his childhood and say things to the affect of 'He didn't have it that bad. He shouldn't complain, etc, etc...' And that makes me upset because pain is pain, you know, and you can't help how you feel inside, and we really aren't in a position to judge how great an affect any of what Joe did actually had on Michael. The only person who knows is Michael himself and Michael's been open about it, like Timmy said, maybe he thought it would help to talk in public about it. I just don't understand people who can doubt him over his own feelings. That seems so unfair to me. I think, at least I hope, that Michael realizes now that his dad does love him and that he just couldn't express it. The relationship is complex, and people want to group it in to black and white terms, like they do everything. It doesn't work that way though. I feel bad for Joe too because its got to hurt knowing that you did what you thought was right and it ended up hurting your kid instead. I never though Joe meant to purposfully hurt Michael or any of his children. He just didn't know any other way. I just wish people, fans included, wouldn't dismiss one or the other. If they aren't dismissing Michael's memories and emotions on the issue, they're doing it to Joe. I see that too much. Shoot, I've even seen fans accuse Michael of lying, which is grossly unfair and so agenda driven that it's mind boggling. I mean, Michael loves his father, it's obvious, and I think all he ever wanted was to know Joe loved him back. Whenever he's mentioned his upbrining in the past, he's always felt bad about it afterwards. Like when he apologized to Joe on camera after admitting to Oprah that Joe used to beat him. Or that he bought Joe a Hummer the next day after admitting it. Or how he's quick to add in that his father is a genius, etc... He doesn't want to hurt his father, or embarrass him. He just didn't know how else to handle it I guess. People shouldn't critisize him for that, I don't think. Like he said in "Moonwalk", its sad for a son to want to know his father, but never really ever being able to.
 
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wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
See, I like it when people look at this from several different perspectives. I often see fans who dismiss Michael's emotions over his childhood and say things to the affect of 'He didn't have it that bad. He shouldn't complain, etc, etc...' And that makes me upset because pain is pain, you know, and you can't help how you feel inside, and we really aren't in a position to judge how great an affect any of what Joe did actually had on Michael. The only person who knows is Michael himself and Michael's been open about it, like Timmy said, maybe he thought it would help to talk in public about it. I just don't understand people who can doubt him over his own feelings. That seems so unfair to me. I think, at least I hope, that Michael realizes now that his dad does love him and that he just couldn't express it. The relationship is complex, and people want to group it in to black and white terms, like they do everything. It doesn't work that way though. I feel bad for Joe too because its got to hurt knowing that you did what you thought was right and it ended up hurting your kid instead. I never though Joe meant to purposfully hurt Michael or any of his children. He just didn't know any other way. I just wish people, fans included, wouldn't dismiss one or the other. If they aren't dismissing Michael's memories and emotions on the issue, they're doing it to Joe. I see that too much. Shoot, I've even seen fans accuse Michael of lying, which is grossly unfair and so agenda driven that it's mind boggling. I mean, Michael loves his father, it's obvious, and I think all he ever wanted was to know Joe loved him back. Whenever he's mentioned his upbrining in the past, he's always felt bad about it afterwards. Like when he apologized to Joe on camera after admitting to Oprah that Joe used to beat him. Or that he bought Joe a Hummer the next day after admitting it. Or how he's quick to add in that his father is a genius, etc... He doesn't want to hurt his father, or embarrass him. He just didn't know how else to handle it I guess. People shouldn't critisize him for that, I don't think. Like he said in "Moonwalk", its sad for a son to want to know his father, but never really ever being able to.
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Great post, again. And I feel you and I are seeing eye to eye on the issue. If you read my post right above yours, you know what I mean. One thing I'd like to add is he was simply candid and honest in speaking and writing about his feelings toward Joe. I don't think he did it like, consciously thinking about the consequences or effects. Just like in many other parent-kid relationship, there was hurt and pain inside and it's healthier to openly talk about it rather than keep all of it inside for too long. It was a part of his life, so he showed it in a setting that was to deal with his life, whether through interviews or books.

Like you pointed out so clearly, it's people's responses and views that create problems out of what should be accepted naturally. It ain't that simple to explain or define the relationship, so they can't narrow it down to a few clear-cut words. I don't even expect or call for sympathy or empathy from them. I just hope at least they don't think either Michael or Joe is a special case. They're just like many other fathers and sons who went through the same situation. The only difference is that both of 'em are famous and some aspects of their relationship have been displayed to the world.
 
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^ Right, exactly. Michael seems to understand that, that a lot of children have to go through hardships like that and that's partly why he's so sensitive to it I think. Because he knows what that's like. And so he tries so hard to do the opposite.
 
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