Latest on MJJC

Atheist thread

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

And just to add in.. this "brother Rachid" is not well respected.. He intentionally speaks ill of Muslims for his "Christian" agenda.. its well documented.
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

I haven't read it entirely but I can back up my statements. In a prominet Catholic country like mine is easier to get a bible than the qu'ran.

Shakir
Whoever is the enemy of Allah and His angels and His apostles and Jibreel and Meekaeel, so surely Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers.
Click to expand...
Surat 2:98

Yusuf Ali
Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- on them is Allah's curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind
Click to expand...
Surah 2:161

Shakir
And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
Click to expand...
Surat 2:191

Shakir
When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
Click to expand...
Surat 8:12

Many of those verses can be found here, the page has different translations. Surat Al-Baqarah here.
 
Last edited:
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

Christians from any denomination could make an equivalent claim you made about The Westboro Baptist Church but they are the ones who follow the bible to the letter the most and the bible is supposedly the word of god dictated to men. I don't believe any supernatural stuff written in any "holy book" or made by people either way, until there is reliable, verifiable evidence to prove their claims, they believe in fairy tales for adults.
 
So yes... someone that googles like I said I see.. You are reminding me of MJ haters that google things that support that he hurt children with things that wave warning signs and is considered "proof".. I could post a bunch o proof that Michael is guilty as I can show proof that he is not..

And just for a little history lesson lets take the quote you posted..

And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

This was in regards to when the mosques were being attacked by non Islamic people.. It states As in self defense. When this is properly translated (which in English it does not make 100% clear) It is saying to drive them out of the mosque if under attack, and if their persecution is severer than be severer back.. DO OT fight with them in the mosque until THEY fight with you...

Summary, do not harm unless it's in self defense.. And to add onto that, which is often left out when translated or when people are trying to villanize muslims is that generally when the quran says to act in aggressive manors it is twards to specific groups that exhisted at the time that were trying to end the Islamic religion and prevent establishment of the religion by attacking them.

Here are a few other quotes you can google, since you are good at that.. that are In the Quran describing a good muslim..

25:63:
The worshippers of theAll-Merciful are they who tread gently upon the earth, and when the ignorantaddress them, they reply, “Peace!”

^ don't think I have to explain this one..


28:55, And when they hear vain talk, they turn awayfrom it and say: “To us our deeds, and to you yours; peace be to you: we do notseek out the ignorant.”

^ Same, No need t explain


“Surely they that believe, and those of Jewry, andthe Christians, and those Sabeaans, who so believes in God and the Last Day,and works righteousness–their wage waits them with their Lord, and no fearshall be on them, neither shall they sorrow.”

^ stating that Jews and Christians (other religions) who act righteously will make it into heaven..



Peace Is literally written into Islamic based languages and culture.. Something you would not know when you are trying to villanize group of people. You are speaking to someone that LIVED in the culture surrounded by nothing but muslims - telling ME what the believe.. My father is Muslim.. I don't know where you get off telling people what there beliefs are like some scholar..

My father a muslim and mother a Christian.. I know the debates thank you! You are entitled to your beliefs, but don't go around spreading your understanding of other people beliefs.









 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

Whoa, whoa, Mr., I'm not telling anyone what they have to believe! Believe whatever you want, that's your right even if it's unproven nonsense which there isn't tangible evidence to this day it's real. I respect people's right to adhere themselves in any region they want, I just don't respect the ideas.

Tell there isn't a persecution or their lives are not in danger to all those atheist bloggers in Malasia or Saudi Arabia jailed, tortured or condemned to death penalty because blaspheming is considered a crime in some Muslim nations. It's true I'm not inmersed in the Muslim world as you are/were but I've talked online to some Iranian women and a guy from Morocco who pretend to be Muslims to survive and not facing the consequences their families, society or the government might do to them if they knew these people are in reality atheists, apostasy is a crime punished with death in some countries.
 
Both the Bible and the Qu'ran are unproven fairy tales which both can be and are interpreted in many, many ways by those who practice them. And too much blood have been shed in the name of both tales.

The biggest problem with Islam in comparation to Christianity IMO that it's not just a religion but also a political system. Even though there have been attempts in history to establish Christian theocracies, but in Christianity that is not a Biblical order. In Islam however there is this expressed goal of establishing Sharia (and eventually the Caliphate) as a state law and you cannot really seperate religion and politics. In my eyes, as a secularist, that makes it less tamable than Christianity. States must remain secular and independent from any religion, period - at least the state I want to live in. Any religion based society is a step backwards IMO.

BTW:

Majorities of Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan support the death penalty for leaving Islam


By Max Fisher May 1, 2013 <iframe id="twitter-widget-0" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/follow_button.a64cf823bcb784855b86e2970134bd2a.en.html#_=1439328092534&dnt=false&id=twitter-widget-0&lang=en&screen_name=Max_Fisher&show_count=false&show_screen_name=true&size=m" class="twitter-follow-button twitter-follow-button" title="Twitter Follow Button" data-twttr-rendered="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; width: 137px; position: static; visibility: visible; height: 20px;"></iframe>
<article itemprop="articleBody" style="box-sizing: border-box;">Correction: An earlier version of this article incorrectly extrapolated data from the Pew Research Center&#8217;s 2013 survey report, &#8220;The World&#8217;s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society,&#8221; regarding the percentage of Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan who support the death penalty for leaving Islam. The correct figures, based on the 2013 Pew Research Center report, are 88% of Muslims in Egypt and 62% of Muslims in Pakistan favor the death penalty for people who leave the Muslim religion.
The Pew Research Center's vast new study on the views and attitudes of global Muslim populations was bound to create controversy. Like the U.S. public knowledge polls that find that one-third of Americans can't name the vice president, Pew's report includes some less-than-flattering pieces of data. And while it's important not to generalize about entire populations or demographic groups based on one study, some of these numbers are difficult to ignore. One of the questions, which Pew asked of Muslims in 38 countries from Europe, Asia, Africa and the Middle East, was whether or not they support making sharia the official law in the country. In many countries, the answer was overwhelmingly yes, although Pew notes that many respondents said sharia should apply only to Muslims and, just as importantly, that "Muslims differ widely in how they interpret certain aspects of sharia, including whether divorce and family planning are morally acceptable." Many respondents reject the stricter laws and punishments for which sharia is often, fairly or unfairly, known in the West. In other words, just because some people say they support sharia law does not mean they want to make their neighbors live in a 9th-century-style caliphate. Still, amid an otherwise innocuous or even reassuring report, Pew's study found some disturbing details. One that jumped out for me was the alarmingly high share of Muslims in some Middle Eastern and South Asian countries who say they support the death penalty for any Muslim who leaves the faith or converts to another. In fact, according to the 2013 Pew Research Center report, 88 percent of Muslims in Egypt and 62 percent of Muslims in Pakistan favor the death penalty for people who leave the Muslim religion. This is also the majority view among Muslims in Malaysia, Jordan and the Palestinian territories. It's important to note, though, that this view is not widely held in all Muslim countries or even among Muslims in these regions. In Bangladesh, another majority Muslim South Asian state that has a shared heritage with Pakistan, it is about half as prevalent, with 36 percent saying they support it. Fewer than one in six Tunisian Muslims hold the view, as do fewer than one in seven Muslims in Lebanon, which has a strong Christian minority. The view is especially rare among Central Asian and European Muslims. Only 6 percent of Russian Muslims agree that converts from Islam should face death, as do 1 percent of Albanian Muslims and, at the bottom of the chart, 0.5 percent of Kazakhs.

</article>


Pew's data shows the share of Muslims who support sharia and the share of these pro-sharia Muslims who back this policy. Some of the Pew data are charted at right. Leaving the faith is a particularly sensitive issue in Islam, which was initially founded in part as a sort of community. Abandoning Islam is traditionally considered not just apostasy, as it is in other religions, but a specific transgression called "ridda." In the first days of Islam, the religion was also a physical community under siege from outside forces and facing the possibility of fracturing within. To leave the faith was also to abandon the larger community, a crime considered akin to treason in the way we understand it in the West. Of course, times have changed significantly over the past 13 or 14 centuries, and a lone Muslim deciding to adopt a different faith or give it up altogether is no longer a practical threat to his or her community in the way that he or she might have been back then. But the religious pronouncements commanding punishment for ridda are still right there in the scripture, which may explain in part why this view persists. It's also important to note that majorities of Muslims in the countries surveyed, sometimes vast majorities, said they support religious freedom. That includes, for example, more than 75 percent of Egyptians and more than 95 percent of Pakistanis. It might seem like a glaring contradiction. And it is a contradiction, but it might make a little more sense that so many people could hold seemingly mutually exclusive views -- religious freedom is good, but anyone who leaves Islam should be executed -- if one understands the particular history of apostasy in Islam.
Click to expand...



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-support-the-death-penalty-for-leaving-islam/
 
Last edited:
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

It seems like you connect political agenda with a religious belief system.. That's what many country leaders do and they attempt to brainwash fallowers. However as far as the day to day Islamic person they do not believe In what the government portrays.. That is why there has been fighting within specific countries. Extremists that are tied to political agendas vs. the common man...

I cannot stand up for those who give a religion a bad name and have an alternative motive, but I can be a voice of the common man.. (Majority) of Islamic people. From farm workers, to Doctors, teachers, store owners etc.. They are people of peace. That I know!! I witness it first hand..

I'm not going to debate this anymore, I know what I have seen first hands and because I am half arab I am commonly around muslims.. those who read our posts can come up with there own conclusion. Be understanding when you label a group of people you are going to effect them. Even though I am not muslim, post like yours made me feel attacked because it is part of my culture. Be sensitive to what you say, no matter what you believe.

I will say bye to this debate the same way people of islam great each other "hello". As-salamu akaykum (The peace be upon you)
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

KOPV said:
It seems like you connect political agenda with a religious belief system.. That's what many country leaders do and they attempt to brainwash fallowers. However as far as the day to day Islamic person they do not believe In what the government portrays.. That is why there has been fighting within specific countries. Extremists that are tied to political agendas vs. the common man...
Click to expand...

What is extremism can be a matter of point of view. For example, to me someone who says the Sharia should be state law is an extremist because by that he wants to force his religion on everyone who lives in that country, even though not everyone accepts that religion. I'd say the same about Christians trying to establish Christian theocracy.

Actually, I have read about how basically they do not believe in the seperation of church and state on a Hungarian Islamic website by the Hungarian Muslim community that considers itself moderate. They do condemn terrorism, ISIS etc. However they do say very ugly, hateful things, for example, about gay people. (And they did quote the Qu'ran saying gay men should be thrown down from a high place as a punishment.) Or they did write this view on their website about the seperation of church and state that to to me is extremist.

In a state IMO everyone should be free to practice their religion or to NOT practice any religion at all. Everyone should be free to be straight or gay with the same rights. No religion should rule over another and the state needs to keep a distance from religion and remain secular and independent from them so that every citizen in the country can have equal rights and freedom to live in whichever way they want (of course as long as they do not hurt someone).
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

^ thanks for agreeing with me lol! I stated earlier that religion will always be a matter of opinion. Which would be a 'point of view'

I s
a
t
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

11836625_1194653760552088_7641298286356949147_n.jpg
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

Well, to be fair Satan isn't as evil as god
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

True, it wasn't Satan who drowned almost everyone in the story of Noah's ark. Reading through the bible god's kill count is immensely higher than Satan's. There are many disturbing stories in there.
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

''But he (god) loves you'' - George Carlin
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

Even children know religions have cause more harm than good and are not necessary to live in harmony among other humans. If subtitles don't appear click the CC button.

 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

It annoys me when people say that god gave us free will. But what about all the starving people in third world countries? They didn't choose to starve themselves. They had no choice. So I wish people would shut up with this whole ''free will'' B.S
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

^ well to play devils advocate.. or should I say "gods advocate" lol!!

"Free will" doesn't mean equal opportunity, but free to make your own choices...

Basically as in God paves the "right" way and we can chose to fallow!! but IF you don't fallow Gods path you could be subjected to HELLLLLLLLLLLLLL!


What has always gotten me is the excuse I hear about why God in the Old Testament vs. New Testamnt are almost two different entities... If God is the know all be all and paves our way etc. shouldn't he always be the same hearted entity? the book (along with all biblical books are so contradictory on many levels)
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

Believe in and do what I say or you'll be eternally tortured. Doesn't sound like much of a choice, especially not a fair one. I could hold a gun to someone's head and say they have to do everything I want or be shot, then I could tell them it's their choice and the responsibility falls on them but nobody in their right mind would say that's fair. Following this biblical logic we should let a person off if they rob someone at gun point, after all, the person chose to give them the money right? This highlights how wrong this logic is.
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

homersapien.jpg


evo.jpg


Goes to show humor doesn't have to be an issue of belief (or lack thereof). Even a Christian like myself can enjoy these lol.
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

removed
 
Last edited:
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

An interesting documentary about a trial in the US about so called "intelligent design".

 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

It amazes me that in the 21st century, there are still places in the developed world where people want to teach "intelligent design" as a viable alternative to evolution in public schools. Of course, only the Christian account of intelligent design, these people would lose their shit if a Hindu tried to do the same. It's bad enough that they have no understanding of what evolution actually is (judging by their arguments that were debunked decades ago) but there's no reason to force their ignorance onto little kids.

I went to a Catholic primary and secondary school and there was never any controversy about this. We were taught about the mythological accounts of creation in different religions in Comparative Religion class and the theory of evolution in science class, which is how it should be imo.

Even more amazing to me is how many Republican Presidential candidates are effectively pushing for a theocracy in the US and people don't even seem too concerned about that. I mean, they literally state that they put Biblical law above federal law (most recent example is the Kim Davis case) and their policies are entirely guided by religion. How does this make them any different than, say, the Muslim Brotherhood or other Islamic political parties in majority Muslim countries?
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

^^It doesn't make them any different in my view and I am very worried about it.
I'm not an athiest but I'm going to make sure and vote in the Republican primary this time in hopes one of these evangelical crazies are not the nominee.
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

barbee0715 said:
^^It doesn't make them any different in my view and I am very worried about it.
I'm not an athiest but I'm going to make sure and vote in the Republican primary this time in hopes one of these evangelical crazies are not the nominee.
Click to expand...

Good luck with that. From what I can tell they are all mentally unstable one way or another and it's a scary thought that one of them may get their hands on the nuclear codes. There's Ben Carson who thinks the world is 6000 years old and evolution is a trick by Satan, Donald Trump who thinks Mexico is purposefully sending its rapists and criminals to the US and building a 2000-mile wall on the border is an excellent way to stop them, Carly Fiorina who ran HP into the ground and blatantly lies without any hesitation, Mike Huckabee who wants to "amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards" (which is the very definition of a theocracy and quite a scary notion if you've read the Bible), Jeb Bush who thinks his brother kept America safe (9/11 and the disastrous Iraq war, anyone?), Ted Cruz who is a far-right extremist who thinks Obama is a Muslim communist and climate change is a hoax (among other insane things), Marco Rubio who has a weird Christian persecution complex... Did I miss anyone? -_- The GOP has been hijacked by Tea Party nutjobs which is a shame for the moderate Republicans out there.
 
Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

^^I know. It's crazy. And has been since the Tea Party was born in response to Obama being elected. I'm from Texas and Ted Cruz is from here. I did not bother to vote that year bc I thought no one in their right mind would vote for him in the primary. Wrong.
My state has gone to pot.

I find it ironic how they all warn against Sharia Law when they're trying to drive the ancient laws of Christanity down our throats. Even the Pope is liberal and compassionate.

And Ben Carson thinks evolution is a trick from Satan? And he's a doctor???
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top