Atheist thread

[Michaels Lover]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

yeah, I know how it is in those muslim countries. it's just so unfair and even though you don't struggle with it in the same way they do, it still makes me sad that your loved ones cant respect it everyone should have a right to be respected for who they are, and what they do or don't believe. and you're right, in my country it's a piece of cake being an atheist. we have it made over here. no matter your beliefs, no one will even look at you the wrong way. we have a lot of muslims because we have so many immigrants from mostly Africa and the middle east. it hasn't always been like that, they've migrated here over the years. so we have different religions, and everyone is accepted for whatever their beliefs are. now, I'm not saying everything is rose red, and that there's no violence (name one place on earth where there isn't :smilerolleyes. Denmark is a small country with a population of 5 million people. I don't know how many % of them are muslims. but they struggle to fit in with the way of life here, and our culture. especially the kids suffer most from it
when growing up, I wasn't raised/brainwashed into believing anything. religion was something that was never even talked about in my home. so that means I also had the opportunity of developing my own beliefs/opinions. We did learn about it (christianity), in school, but even then, I thought those stories (from the bible), were too far out to be true. to this day, I still don't know what my mothers religious views are. i don't know, it's just something we've never really talked about. she knows mine though, I have told her several times, and she just shrugged, like that's no big deal. and some of my other relatives believe in god, but even so, they respect my opinion, and i respect theirs. so you see, I live in a completely different world compared to those countries where it's not as accepted as here. I just can't understand it, and I don't think I will ever be able to

 

[Galactus123]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

I'm glad that here where I live the religion doesn't really show up in everyday life almost at all. Many times I get the feeling that most people are atheist. If somebody would start talking about God it would feel really awkward. I'm sure there are a lot of believers but most of them are older people.

 

[MJresearcher]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

In Australia most people don't seem to care much about someone being an atheist. People who claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus are the ones considered strange here. It's mostly secular over here and very grateful for that, I don't know how atheists survive in places full of fundamentalists. I think I'd go insane.

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

In Australia most people don't seem to care much about someone being an atheist. People who claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus are the ones considered strange here. It's mostly secular over here and very grateful for that, I don't know how atheists survive in places full of fundamentalists. I think I'd go insane.

it's just the other way around in Australia, wow that's pretty amazing and fascinating

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

In Australia most people don't seem to care much about someone being an atheist. People who claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus are the ones considered strange here. It's mostly secular over here and very grateful for that, I don't know how atheists survive in places full of fundamentalists. I think I'd go insane.

This is really awesome! You, Michael's lover and Galactus are very lucky it's a piece of cake being an atheist in your countries. But Tahl, how is this Jeebus freak Australian? When Bill Nye, The Science Guy debated Ken Ham provided various examples how the great flood in Noah's Ark never happened talking about the oldest tree in the world, Old Tjikko which is 9,550 years old, 3,550 years older than the alleged age of the Earth according to Creationists, how evolution occured and keeps occuring, etc and the ONLY "evidence" Ham provided was the bible, "there is a book." :doh:

 

[HIStory]

Although I'm an atheist, I do have a soft spot for beautiful African choir music, like this:

[youtube]yNqmpQPp-ns[/youtube]

That is one way in which religion can bring people together

I am as much of an atheist as it comes but I sometimes still find myself quoting Bible verses to certain situations. Obviously I do not consider the Bible God's word or inspired by God or whatever Christians think about it. It is a literary work and a myth like those Greek legends or the Kalevala or any other religious or folk myth, but people still read those and can take some wisdom away from them even if they know it's a myth. That it does not come from God does not mean that there is not some human wisdom in it - after all it was written by people, some of whom had great life experiences and wisdom for their age. For example, Proverbs has some good advises.

Recently someone started a thread about MJ on another forum and how good he was for this world and the world did not respect him like it should have. Regarding that I always thought this Bible verse was so fitting to him:

[SUP]18 [/SUP]“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. [SUP]19 [/SUP]If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+15

Obviously I do not take this literally, that God chose MJ out of this world (since there is no God), but I do believe this verse reflects to the human experience that when you are a better person than the average you will get easily hated by other people. The world does have a need to cut such individuals "down to size" and apparently it always has been so. This may explain the disproportionate and irrational hate Michael got during his lifetime. Of course, jealousy is a part of it too.

The bigger point I want to make is that there is no shame in enjoying religious artwork as an atheist - or even to take something away from it. Being an atheist does not stop me from enjoying a beautiful religiously inspired classical musical piece or a gospel or a literally work. Just like not believing in Zeus and the Greek gods does not affect me in being able to enjoy antique Greek statues or literature depicting those gods.

 

[LindavG]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

[youtube]lWZifSXlzlI[/youtube]

Something to make you think...

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Tells the story of 8 year old Rúbaí's impending first holy communion and her refusal to take part in it. It was sad to see little Rúbaí' was looked down for being a free thinker but it's a moving short film nonetheless.

It makes me wish I were that smart at her age but I guess I was too brainwashed into "believing" in that moment of my life.

 

[HIStory]

Tells the story of 8 year old Rúbaí's impending first holy communion and her refusal to take part in it. It was sad to see little Rúbaí' was looked down for being a free thinker but it's a moving short film nonetheless.

It makes me wish I were that smart at her age but I guess I was too brainwashed into "believing" in that moment of my life.

[video=youtube;4rSkSOkUJ5o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rSkSOkUJ5o&sns=fb[/video]

Oh I missed it and it's taken down from YT.

But I watched the documentary about Uganda. Horrible what American evangelicals do there. They take advantage of the fact that there are many uneducated people there and they are easily convinced of BS. What Africa needs to prosper is quality, secular education not religious indoctrination.

It was laughable when that US guy said he is not in favour of theocracy. They are building exactly that in Uganda when they impose their laws and their "values" onto a whole country by introducing Biblical laws into the country's laws. Horrible.

I don't know how those evangelical people can sleep at night when they think of the fact the consequences of their words result in people getting imprisoned and beaten up and even killed. There is blood on their hands but they obviously don't think of those consequences.

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

have you ever heard of The Thinking Atheist? they make some really powerful videos

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

Oh I missed it and it's taken down from YT.

But I watched the documentary about Uganda. Horrible what American evangelicals do there. They take advantage of the fact that there are many uneducated people there and they are easily convinced of BS. What Africa needs to prosper is quality, secular education not religious indoctrination.

It was laughable when that US guy said he is not in favour of theocracy. They are building exactly that in Uganda when they impose their laws and their "values" onto a whole country by introducing Biblical laws into the country's laws. Horrible.

I don't know how those evangelical people can sleep at night when they think of the fact the consequences of their words result in people getting imprisoned and beaten up and even killed. There is blood on their hands but they obviously don't think of those consequences.

If I spot the video again, I'll post it.

Not only those evangelicals from IHOP )international House of Prayer) are causing LGBTT to be imprisoned or murdered by their own compatriots, those zealots are condemning Ugandans to die of AIDS by spreading BS about abstinence being the most effective to prevent IHV rather than using condoms. We could see the connditions most of the people live in, the majority of the population is poor and uneducated as you stated it, most people won't be able to pay the IHV treatment they require and I think one of the doctors said in the docu stateted preachings abstinence rather the correct use of condoms have caused the virus to increase. For what I could gather from the IHOP people, they pretend impose Christianity (evangelical Pentecostal) and the biblical laws into the world but they see Uganda as their precioous pearl. Anyway, God loves Uganda is a must see if people want to learn about evangelicals' sinister ways to impose their values and their homophobic agenda.

 

[MJresearcher]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

I listen to The Thinking Atheist podcasts all the time, Seth is awesome.

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

wow http://icelandmag.visir.is/article/...er-believe-god-created-world-new-poll-reveals

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

^I guess old generations of believers will have to die in order to make secularism stronger. I clarify, I don't mean the ones who believe in deities are ought to be killed.

Something to laugh about because seriously, I've encountered rabid believers and MJ haters like this tiny Pomeranian who have reacted to evidence/the truth pretty badly. :lol:

https://www.facebook.com/NateTalksToYou/videos/935451539844670/






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[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

If you want to have a glimpse how The Boston Globe discovered the Catholic Church protected between 70-90 pederast priests in that state, Spotlight is your movie.

In 2001, The Boston Globe hires a new editor, Marty Baron (Liev Schreiber). Meeting with Walter "Robby" Robinson (Michael Keaton), Baron discovers that Robinson heads the "Spotlight" team, a small group of journalists whose articles are investigative in nature, but can take up to a year to publish. When Baron reads a small column in the paper about the pedophile priest John Geoghan, and a lawyer who says that Cardinal Law (the Archbishop of Boston) knew that Geoghan was sexually abusing children and did nothing to stop him, Baron urges the Spotlight Team to investigate the story.

Initially believing that they are following the story of one priest who was moved around several times, the Spotlight Team begin to uncover a pattern of sexual abuse of children by Roman Catholic priests in Massachusetts, and an ongoing cover-up by the Boston Archdiocese.

BTW, Geoghan was convicted for sexually molesting children sentenced to 9-10 years in prison thanks to the investigation made by the Spotlight team in 2002 but was strangled by an inmate a year later.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

 

[LindavG]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

Unfortunately, there are still plenty of people who dispute that the three cats are related because that would mean evolution is real, even if it doesn't extend to humans. These people believe God created all species individually and it's just a coincidence that we share 98% of our DNA with chimps. To be honest, I'm not even sure they believe in DNA or DNA-testing considering their disdain for science.

While this is all very disturbing, I have discovered something last week that truly shocked me. Did you know there is a genuine conspiracy theory, growing in popularity, that the earth is actually flat? I used to think this was just a joke or a parody or something but no, there are actually quite a few people who believe this and they have elaborate theories and "evidence". They believe the earth is flat and not spinning and that the sky is above us like a dome. Apparently the edges of the earth are at the North & South Poles which is why people aren't allowed to go there. It's absolutely mindblowing to me how people in 2016 can believe such absurd nonsense. And the sad part is that they think they are the enlightened ones and we are all "sheeple" -_-

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

Unfortunately, there are still plenty of people who dispute that the three cats are related because that would mean evolution is real, even if it doesn't extend to humans. These people believe God created all species individually and it's just a coincidence that we share 98% of our DNA with chimps. To be honest, I'm not even sure they believe in DNA or DNA-testing considering their disdain for science.

While this is all very disturbing, I have discovered something last week that truly shocked me. Did you know there is a genuine conspiracy theory, growing in popularity, that the earth is actually flat? I used to think this was just a joke or a parody or something but no, there are actually quite a few people who believe this and they have elaborate theories and "evidence". They believe the earth is flat and not spinning and that the sky is above us like a dome. Apparently the edges of the earth are at the North & South Poles which is why people aren't allowed to go there. It's absolutely mindblowing to me how people in 2016 can believe such absurd nonsense. And the sad part is that they think they are the enlightened ones and we are all "sheeple" -_-

I'm not surprised...people will believe anything

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

^^Neil deGrasse Tyson and Richard Dawkins are the men!

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

 

[LindavG]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

If those Christians were truly concerned about the sanctity of marriage, they would be out there in the streets protesting against divorce and remarriage. The Bible is very clear about that (see Matthew 19). Instead, conservative Christians in the US have higher divorce rates than the general population. Religion is just a convenient way for them to justify their bigotry towards anyone they perceive as the Other. A few decades ago, they'd have been walking around with signs like this:

And a few decades from now, they will have found a new scapegoat to feel morally superior to.

 

[LindavG]

Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia died today. I know it's not appropriate to say this at this time but I am sure our American friends who are atheist, homosexual, black or poor breathe a sigh of relief. I trust Obama to nominate someone who understands the concept of secularism and who will not base his decisions on fundamentalist religious beliefs.

For those who are not familiar with Mr Scalia: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/03/opinion/justice-scalias-majoritarian-theocracy.html

The suggestion that the Constitution cannot override the religious beliefs of many American citizens is radical. It would imply, contrary to the provision that forbids religious tests for public office, that religious majorities are special wards of the Constitution. Justice Scalia seems to want to turn the Constitution upside down when it comes to government and religion; his political ideal verges on majoritarian theocracy.

In a talk last month at the Union League in Philadelphia, he criticized the court’s interpretations of the establishment clause of the First Amendment, which prohibits the government from “establishing” a religion. He did so, according to the moderator, Robert P. George, a professor of jurisprudence at Princeton, on the ground that “there is no textual or historical basis for the Court’s claim that laws and policies must be neutral not only between different religions, but also between religion and nonreligion.” The implication is that if a majority of Americans reject same-sex marriage on religious grounds, the Supreme Court must bow.

 

[barbee0715]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

^^Yes, he is dead and that was my first thought tonight. Obama can nominate a liberal judge. However the news reports are saying with a fractured Congress and a presidential election going on this year it might wait for the new Pres.

I hope not because we have some big cases on the docket.
We're in for a big fight I think.

 

[analogue]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

Why is it that when one person believes in something with no evidence of it's existence, then that person is called a crazy lunatic, and made fun of. But if a billion people believe in something with no evidence, then all of a sudden it's a religion and that deserves respect?

 

[Antwort]

Tragically those images are part of history and they are a sad testament to the abuse of Christ's name and teachings. In instances like that I cannot help but feel ashamed of fellow Christians.

If those Christians were truly concerned about the sanctity of marriage, they would be out there in the streets protesting against divorce and remarriage. The Bible is very clear about that (see Matthew 19).

Unfortunately, most Christian denominations have embraced divorce and although the Catholic Church is the last one to formally denounce it, in practice the papacy has recently taken measures to ease the annulment process, which is a de facto divorce and opens the door to remarriage.

Indeed, if the sanctity of marriage and the worth of the family were to be truly upheld then people in conservatives circles ought to worry much, MUCH more about the divorce rate, adultery, child abuse and domestic violence which happens in "Christian" families. Those are far more stringent and wide spread issues than civil unions among gays, who, believe it or not (in spite of their vocal lobbying) are and will continue to be a small minority of the populus.

Why is it that when one person believes in something with no evidence of it's existence, then that person is called a crazy lunatic, and made fun of.

Kind of like the hoaxers who believe Michael is still alive, hiding somewhere out there (preferably online) and will come back to shock the galaxy off its axis? At this point in time, there may very well be just one person left believing that kind of stuff lol.

But if a billion people believe in something with no evidence, then all of a sudden it's a religion and that deserves respect?

You do make an interesting point, but I'm not sure I can embrace it fully. Christ's physical and historical existence has been confirmed. I can understand how from the point of view of non-believers and people of other faiths His divinity remains questioned, but His existence has been proven. Also, one would have to take into account the history of the Church made of martyrs, saints and miracles, all of which cannot be dismissed as collective delusion. People may kill in the name of a divinity they have no certainty about except maybe fear, but few would be killed for someone they didn't truly believe in and have profound love for. Don't mean to transform the thread into a debate though which I know is forbidden for the sake of forum stability and the convivial climate which dominates MJJC.

I also would have had some things to say about Justice Scalia after reading a most disturbing piece on his economic outlook and how it relates to Christianity, but I will definitely leave that one for another intervention (probably a blog post) because it truly wouldn't make the subject of this thread.

Religion is just a convenient way for them to justify their bigotry towards anyone they perceive as the Other.

Absolutely agree with this. The high jacking of religion by extremists of every type is one of the greatest tragedies in world history. Instead of being a force for peace, brotherhood and prosperity for all, religion has been misused by many to propagate an agenda of sin, violence and inhumanity, all of which are contrary to God's holy and loving nature.

I know the posting of Bible verses is not without precedent, therefore I will go ahead and post something I believe is highly relevant for the pictures above..........

21*“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.*22*Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’*23*And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ - Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV)

P.S. I find it highly ironic how at times non-believers are more familiar with the Bible than many who claim to embrace it. Btw, I must shamefully admit that I fit rather well into the Christian ignorant archetype when it comes to certain portions of the Old Testament. Hopefully, my honesty is a good excuse and worth at least half a pardon

 

[LindavG]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

Unfortunately, most Christian denominations have embraced divorce and although the Catholic Church is the last one to formally denounce it, in practice the papacy has recently taken measures to ease the annulment process, which is a de facto divorce and opens the door to remarriage.

To be clear, I don't think there is anything morally wrong with divorce. I only mentioned it because it so clearly demonstrates the double standard that some Christians have, where they will pick and choose Bible verses based on what's convenient for them and suits their particular moral and political beliefs.

Kind of like the hoaxers who believe Michael is still alive, hiding somewhere out there (preferably online) and will come back to shock the galaxy off its axis? At this point in time, there may very well be just one person left believing that kind of stuff lol.

To me Analogue's statement was more like questioning the difference between a cult and a religion, or a paranoid schizophrenic who thinks the walls are talking to him versus a religious person who thinks the angels are talking to him. What really distinguishes them but the number of followers who share their delusions? This is an honest question. As a Christian in the United States you take it for granted that your religious beliefs are mainstream and shared by many people around you. But this is really just an accident of history. If you were born in another place or another time, you would wonder how anyone could possibly believe in talking snakes or pregnant virgins or seven-headed dragons. The way you look at, say, Roman or Greek mythology with a sense of fascination and disbelief is the same way non-Christians who weren't indoctrinated with the religion look at Christianity. I don't think many Christians actually realise this and that is why there is such a fundamental misunderstanding between atheists and Christians (and other believers). We don't feel we are being disrespectful or unreasonable when we 'mock' any particular religion because it holds no deeper meaning for us.

You do make an interesting point, but I'm not sure I can embrace it fully. Christ's physical and historical existence has been confirmed. I can understand how from the point of view of non-believers and people of other faiths His divinity remains questioned, but His existence has been proven.

I won't go into detail here because as you said, this is not a debate thread, but the physical and historical existence of Jesus as described in the Bible is not quite as uncontroversial as you make it sound.

Also, one would have to take into account the history of the Church made of martyrs, saints and miracles, all of which cannot be dismissed as collective delusion. People may kill in the name of a divinity they have no certainty about except maybe fear, but few would be killed for someone they didn't truly believe in and have profound love for. Don't mean to transform the thread into a debate though which I know is forbidden for the sake of forum stability and the convivial climate which dominates MJJC.

There is no disagreement here. I don't doubt that people who are willing to die for their religious beliefs are deeply and sincerely convinced those beliefs are true. The problem is that throughout history, people with wildly different beliefs have sacrificed their own lives. As we speak, Muslims in the Middle East are killing themselves and each other because they believe this is what God commands them to do. Yet has their complete devotion to their faith made you question for even one second that Islam might be the true religion and you were wrong all this time?

Absolutely agree with this. The high jacking of religion by extremists of every type is one of the greatest tragedies in world history. Instead of being a force for peace, brotherhood and prosperity for all, religion has been misused by many to propagate an agenda of sin, violence and inhumanity, all of which are contrary to God's holy and loving nature.

We'll agree to disagree regarding the supposed holy and loving nature of the God of the Bible :innocent: But you said yourself that you haven't really studied the Old Testament in detail so I guess that explains things :cheeky:

Btw, I don't think there's anything wrong with the type of discussion we're having, keeps things interesting. I assume the "for non-believers only" just means that this thread is not an invitation for religious people to try to save our lost souls ;D

 

[MJresearcher]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

I think this discussion is fine, debate only becomes a problem when people attack each other on a personal level instead of discussing and rebutting each other's arguments. I think one of the main reasons debate can get so heated is because people take refutations of the arguments personally, but a refutation of an argument and a personal attack are two different things.

 

[Antwort]

I think this discussion is fine, debate only becomes a problem when people attack each other on a personal level instead of discussing and rebutting each other's arguments. I think one of the main reasons debate can get so heated is because people take refutations of the arguments personally, but a refutation of an argument and a personal attack are two different things.

Btw, I don't think there's anything wrong with the type of discussion we're having, keeps things interesting. I assume the "for non-believers only" just means that this thread is not an invitation for religious people to try to save our lost souls ;D

Agree abundantly with both of you. I actually think civilized, good-natured and well meaning debates make conversation interesting. Furthermore, I don't believe people in Christian circles ought to isolate themselves within their parochial limits and disengage from the world. Threatening people with brimstone and fire and other equally "inspiring" visions of hell won't help either. You guys may have noticed it already - I'm not here on any proselytizing mission. To quote Kanye I'm not here to turn atheists into believers lol.

I am afraid throughout history the Church(es) has/have been too preoccupied with instilling the fear of hell in people instead of persuading them of the beauty and worth of heaven. Thankfully, the age of conversions by the sword and completely unChristian inquisitorial practices is long gone. There still are plenty of items of discontent I, as a believer, have about current Christian practices, but those concerns of this poor, wretched sinner truly do not belong in this thread.

I don't doubt that people who are willing to die for their religious beliefs are deeply and sincerely convinced those beliefs are true. The problem is that throughout history, people with wildly different beliefs have sacrificed their own lives. As we speak, Muslims in the Middle East are killing themselves and each other because they believe this is what God commands them to do.

Linda, I realize what you say about the acts of certain types of religious people, but I specifically made the difference between those who sacrifice themselves in the name of their religion, e.g. Christian martyrs either in Roman times or in our age and those who kill others, current events in the Middle East and in other corners of the world certainly come to mind. I know that history has plenty of evidence when Christian either among themselves or against other people have been guilty of dreadful violence. However, that no longer is the case, not on such a wide spread level anyhow. My point was mainly about those among Christians who demonstrated their faith through the ultimate sacrifice without hurting anyone, which I believe is the authentic Christian way. I don't believe those who kill others in the name of God (at any point in time) have anything to do with real faith, be they Christians, Muslims or any other religion. The voices of moderate Islam which denounce those acts as contrary to their faith unfortunately don't receive enough recognition. I'm convinced they represent the majority of Muslims across the world and they do not see in suicide bombers either heroes or genuine martyrs.

As far as the doubts about God's loving nature and the elements of the Old Testament in support of such assertions I won't really get into details and not necessarily because I may be ill equipped for such a debate. I may not be completely familiar with the entirety of the Old Testament, but suffice it to say that I relate a bit too much for my own well being (thus far, anyhow) to the Book of Job and a couple of other books there. It is with great sadness that I must admit that life has given me a bit too many and too harsh occasions due to which I have been forced to question God's love and mercy for me. The idea that He puts through the hardest tests those whom He loves best provides me with little to no comfort whatsoever. My devotion to honesty prevents from saying otherwise. All of the above notwithstanding, I still hope that one particular Psalm verse about "seeing God's goodness in the land of the living" will hold true.

Btw of Bible verses/quotes and interpretation. It is very true that Bible lends itself to plenty interpretations, contradiction and most limited use according to agenda, priority or particular tradition, as you also pointed out in the issues about divorce.

To be clear, I don't think there is anything morally wrong with divorce. I only mentioned it because it so clearly demonstrates the double standard that some Christians have, where they will pick and choose Bible verses based on what's convenient for them and suits their particular moral and political beliefs.

I also know that you have nothing contrary to divorce, but were using it as an argument about the duplicity of certain Christians. My personal disagreement with the practice of divorce derives from a rather pragmatic consideration, much more than the religious/moral aspect of it all. Even if all priests, pastors and cardinals in the world would say that divorce is commendable and is not a sin in God's eyes (which is basically what they are saying), I would still consider it a mistake from the sheer point of practicality.

I still believe lifelong and fulfilling monogamy is the most complete form of personal bliss. Except for those who have utter disdain for conjugal faithfulness and confuse fidelity with boredom, no normal human being who embarks on a deep and intimate relationship actually wants it to end, not if it provides them with the physical satisfaction and emotional security such a romantic interest and connection ought to provide. Therefore, from where I'm standing the true issue is not so much Christian marriage or divorce, but that simple, silly notion of finding someone to share true love with for the rest of one's life. After all, what is divorce or any other form of breakup if not the terrible reminder that the search for that "special one" is not actually over? This time is forever, love is the answer......La volta che non sbaglio più.........music is full of such lyrics and proclamations about the desire to finally find that one special bond which will hold and be a source of constant joy.

Better stop rambling now because I'm really goin' O/T here. Apologies for intruding and taking so much space. I also feel like I should apologize for the comparison between hoaxers and people of faith. It was mostly just another of my silly attempts at humor in what otherwise is a rather serious discussion. Keep rockin' everyone :flowers:

 

[analogue]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: Athesit Thread (For non-believers only)

my latest purchase