A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality [Discussion]

[Bernard]

Grading Michael Jackson
by Warren Eagles


My first real grading job was on the Michael Jackson Bad tour in 1988, directed by Patrick Kelly. I was an assistant telecine operator at Visions, located in Soho, London. As an assistant I laced the film, loaded the film cleaner and pressed REC on the 1” VTR. I spent the time in between these duties and lots of my own time observing and learning the nuances of the industry. Visions had 2 senior telecine ops Mark Baugh and Luke Rainey who were both particularly knowledgeable and were an invaluable part of my education. Just watching them grade then asking questions at the right moment was a great way to learn.

The concert was shot on a mixture of 35mm and 16mm film, it seemed at times they were shooting film for fun! The crew filmed 2 nights out of the 5 Wembley stadium gigs, film was also fed from the earlier tour legs in Australia, Japan, and Europe. As an accompanying piece to the concert, an “on the road” documentary was also filmed at the same time. The concert was cut in a 4 machine 1” online edit suit, not offlined. This was before Avid of FCP offline so the alternative would have been a lowband umatic or ¾ edit. As soon as the film came in from the lab we would be transferring it, feeding the footage on to 2 hungry edit suites.

It is still the biggest music project I have ever been involved with in terms of volume of footage. We would load each negative film lab roll onto the Rank MK111 telecine machine then set the counter to a known sync point on the film. So LR 10 would be TC 10:00:00:00. The sync point would be the start mark on the film leader.

There had been a hold up one day at the lab so the pressure was off and Mark said to me “why don’t you jump on the desk and grade a few rolls,” I jumped at it.

I played the film roll into the first song and checked our presets for color and framing. The colorists had set presets based on the different film stock types. Kodak 5248 slightly warmer than the 500ASA variety. I made some small adjustments all looked good and matched the previous work so I rewound the negative slowly to the film leader and then started to record from the Picture Start mark on the leader. To match a shot from a previous camera roll, we had to load that tape, find the shot we wanted to match to, then wipe to it with a vision mixer, no still store back then. The exposure and color balance were adjusted on the fly as the 1’’ VTR was recording. I initially couldn’t adjust the controls quickly enough so found that the exposure was changing during a usable piece of MJ’s performance. This meant we had to stop recording, adjust the shot then pick up the edit on a suitable camera flash or clapperboard. As I became more experienced I leant to change the controls fast enough to keep recording. This type of fly grading was a great way of learning instinctively which way to adjust the joysticks without looking at the Vector scope or Waveform monitor. The key here was consistence as there was to be no final grade. Fly grading is something junior graders don’t do much anymore because film dailies from a TK machine are becoming less frequent. Film is more likely to be transferred to a file then graded. It was a great way to learn how to grade, not just well but quickly.

The single “Another part of me” was cut from some of my early telecine work. The music video was cut from footage shot in London and Paris, that shows you how tight Jackson’s performance was.As far as I know the complete concert and documentary has never been released. A disappointing waste as the film managed to capture Jackson at his peak. Jackson never came into Visions during the project but Frank Dileo, his cigar smoking manager, visited a couple of times.

http://icolorist.com/grading-michael-jackson/

 

[lom kit]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

What I'm saying is that - because Bucharest had already been broadcast in the 90s - it was probably taken care of better than other masters and it could very well have been duplicated to be given to other broadcasters, thus making it easier to locate. If something wasn't intended to be released, it's reasonable to believe that it wouldn't be guarded so fervently as something that is or was.

Bucharest was televised by BBC and then re-edited and televised By HBO and later other tv stations. we don't know what was used as source for the dvd. Since its the HBO cut, its problably taken from HBO and not from Michaels archives.

 

[Hess]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I would prefer 16:9. I hate black bars on the side.

I would prefer that too. - But it apparently it would "damage" the quality.

Well, I guess what we can do now is pray that they find those films and release Blu-Rays of MJ's concerts someday!

My fingers are crossed!!

 

[ivy]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

It is Lowry digital. I've just read today about that Nasa thing they did.

well they are an impressive company then.

And wasn't you one of the who said that the concerns are reasonable?

yes they were. I even sent 2 more questions - it's the weekend so I won't get a reply back until monday or don't know if they'll respond to those.

the negativy came from those who think that we've complained, just because we don't jump for joy and are not unpretentious like some here. And the statement came that soon because of all that. else they could have left us till the release, without a single answer.

I think what I meant to say was that the constant repeat of some things and some premature speculation was the things that was problematic for me.

I totally understood the request of more information, the raise of questions and concerns when we all read the "VHS copy" mention in the statement, that's why I asked about it within 24 hours and got a response saying that it'll be addressed. What I called negativity was that even though people knew the answers were coming it didn't stop them from approaching to it on a ongoing negativity. Why not wait for more information?

Premature speculation was when some people knowingly and in a definitive way claimed that VHS footage can't be enhanced to decent quality but now we have reason to believe that Lowry Digital is involved in the restoration and they are known for decent work.

Do you see what I'm saying? A lot of premature speculation that involved negativity could have been avoided by waiting for the promised information.

 

[Jesta]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

What were the two more questions that you asked Ivy, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Topcronos]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

What were the two more questions that you asked Ivy, if you don't mind me asking?

Same here.

Any chance you asked if TWYMMF is part of the set list ?

 

[ivy]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

What were the two more questions that you asked Ivy, if you don't mind me asking?

You know me, I'd like to be certain before I say something. I'll mention what the questions were if I get an answer or a promise of an answer.

I don't like to post them and create hope about answers when I don't know if they'll be answered or not.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

well they are an impressive company then.



yes they were. I even sent 2 more questions - it's the weekend so I won't get a reply back until monday or don't know if they'll respond to those.



I think what I meant to say was that the constant repeat of some things and some premature speculation was the things that was problematic for me.

I totally understood the request of more information, the raise of questions and concerns when we all read the "VHS copy" mention in the statement, that's why I asked about it within 24 hours and got a response saying that it'll be addressed. What I called negativity was that even though people knew the answers were coming it didn't stop them from approaching to it on a ongoing negativity. Why not wait for more information?

Premature speculation was when some people knowingly and in a definitive way claimed that VHS footage can't be enhanced to decent quality but now we have reason to believe that Lowry Digital is involved in the restoration and they are known for decent work.

Do you see what I'm saying? A lot of premature speculation that involved negativity could have been avoided by waiting for the promised information.

People expressing their opinions are not going to pretend to be happy when they know they're getting an enhanced VHS quality. This place has been created for discussion. If some of us continually label others as creating negativity, then you end up in the division of the MJ fan base. And then what?

Let people express themselves even if they seemingly have negative things to say. And instead of constantly reproaching the attitude of people, it'd be maybe better to simply have a normal discussion and answer the negativity by the positivity.

Labeling is the thing that divides us, so let's not pour oil on fire. For each negative answer, there is a positive one.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

You know me, I'd like to be certain before I say something. I'll mention what the questions were if I get an answer or a promise of an answer.

I don't like to post them and create hope about answers when I don't know if they'll be answered or not.

I hope that you asked about the trailer. Is the trailer before or after restoration and if it's before to release a new trailer so we can see how it will look.

I think those are 2 most important questions right now. I hope you asked that and that they'll answer. If he performed TWYMMF or not is not that important.

 

[Hunter93]

Premature speculation was when some people knowingly and in a definitive way claimed that VHS footage can't be enhanced to decent quality but now we have reason to believe that Lowry Digital is involved in the restoration and they are known for decent work.

Do you see what I'm saying? A lot of premature speculation that involved negativity could have been avoided by waiting for the promised information.

This doesn´t change the situation at all if you ask me. It´s still a VHS and complaints about quality are just as justified as before.
If they do the restauration well, we´ll get a nearly lossless copy of the original VHS at best. But even Lowry Digital isn´t able to actually improve the quality of the picture - maybe they will eliminate some analogous artifacts at the cost of a blurrier picture over all, they can also adjust the black level and in some way also improve the colours but they are not able to perform real magic.

And even if we will get decent VHS quality, you simply can´t not say the quality is overall good. We live in times of Blu-ray discs and the upcoming 4K standard for home entertainment devices.
"Good" (out of my perspective) would mean at least proper DVD quality, VHS - no matter how good the picture for this format will be - is simply "bad" quality.

But of course I´m still exited for the DVD.

 

[lom kit]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

well they are an impressive company then.


Do you see what I'm saying? A lot of premature speculation that involved negativity could have been avoided by waiting for the promised information.

here is the link of what i've read. Just to make sure i'm not making up.

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...-saving-our-history-for-a-digital-future.aspx

And yes. I was one of the who was maybe to harsh. Guilty.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

Are we 100% sure it's Lowry digital?

 

[ivy]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

Are we 100% sure it's Lowry digital?

I don't think we can be 100% sure but

- they are well-known in the industry
- have worked with NASA on Apollo 11 restoration
- have their own patented technology

perhaps it can be one of Lowry's competition as well.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I hope Lowry has nothing to do with "low"

 

[ivy]

From MJNA

UPDATE: We’ve just got word of another confirmed performance included on the Bad 25 DVD: The Way You Make Me Feel as part of the encore with Man in the Mirror.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

From MJNA

UPDATE: We’ve just got word of another confirmed performance included on the Bad 25 DVD: The Way You Make Me Feel as part of the encore with Man in the Mirror.

In black and white mono restored on beta system or VHS 2.0?

 

[Pentum]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I just hope they leave it 4:3. It'll be a shame if they cut the image. Video quality is one thing (which is obviously only enhancable until a certain point and therefore not 100% in the Estate's hands) but cutting the image must not be done. I'd rather have black borders than a cropped image!

I know it has nothing to do with your post, but look how awesome it looks. To watch MJ in that quality.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I'm watching Vision DVDs right now on a big flat screen... it's very bad quality indeed. I just hope Bad Tour won't be worse.

 

[Pentum]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I'm watching Vision DVDs right now on a big flat screen... it's very bad quality indeed. I just hope Bad Tour won't be worse.

You really think Wembley will look better than the music videos on Vision? I don't think any NASA alien technology can do that

 

[ChrisC]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I don't think I'll ever fully trust anything the Estate ever tells us. That trust was broken in the events which we do not speak of. However, taking this statement at 'face value' and nothing more - big thank you to the Estate for addressing the majority of our concerns and communicating with us in this way, it is most welcome.

 

[Topcronos]

From MJNA

UPDATE: We’ve just got word of another confirmed performance included on the Bad 25 DVD: The Way You Make Me Feel as part of the encore with Man in the Mirror.

Thank you so much Ivy, that is really good news. At least to me. Would have been very disappointed should it not be performed.

 

[MichaelD]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I know it has nothing to do with your post, but look how awesome it looks. To watch MJ in that quality.

I'm with you. Unfortunately I used just a HQ image to create this illustration of an 1920 x 1080 screen... To good to be true.

 

[bobmoo79]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I'm glad the estate has explained the situation so we know why things are the way they are. I'm amazed that the footage wasn't kept more carefully or securely though.
Anyway, the best combination of video/audio they have for a releasable product is Wembley so we have to be happy with that. Unfortunately VHS restoration/enhancement is very limited, even when done by the best in the world, so we will ultimately be disapponted with the video quality. We just need to remember how bad the quality would have been without any restoration at all. This will be difficult because unless we see some of the original VHS footage we won't be able to appreciate the restoration fully

To prevent criticism once the product is released perhaps the estate should include a bonus feature that shows clips of the before and after footage....

 

[victorytour84]

Is there any victory tour concerts video found?

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

You really think Wembley will look better than the music videos on Vision? I don't think any NASA alien technology can do that

Due to the video source I doubt it, but I hope for the best.

 

[Boggy]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

Is there any victory tour concerts video found?

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeah. I love this post.

 

[Rudolf]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I don't know what company they are talking about. but I know that the Apollo 11 restoration was a huge deal back in 2009. It was widely reported that Neil Armstrong's walk on the moon footage was lost. The reality was NASA used to record every mission in full on film but as it required too much film, they would tape over the later missions on the same film so they didn't have the original masters. It was remastered from a 40 year old recording of the TV broadcast.

When they said NASA that's the thing that I remembered. Again I don't know what firm or what technique the Estate is talking about.



Well as I said before the statement was released on Monday and I had contacted them on Tuesday and they had said it'll be addressed. and now they started to address it. so some speculation and negativity was unneeded IMO. People could have waited for the upcoming statement.

NASA hired Lowry Digital to restore that footage in video you provided. I think best restoration company. They restored film negatives of many great popular movies.

 

[Deleted member 9375]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

There is however one piece of information in the Estate's communication that is very important: "to look for".

This indicates, and I hope I am not wrong, that they will relentlessly be searching for the lost material such as the original film of the BAD Tour concerts and, why not, other tours as well. And this is what I call reassuring.

As a collector of MJ's officially released music and videos, I will have to consider this DVD release as a vintage with a touch of lost memories from the 80s regarding the video quality. It has its own charm. To me this lower video quality will have that charm as long as I know that they are still looking for the original film and that one day they will proudly announce its blur-ray release. The master is not vanished, it is just lost among other films. It takes time to dig everything out, but I have faith we'll eventually get there.

This vintage DVD can be enjoyable thanks to the surround sound.

The day they find out the original film and put it on blu-ray, we'll all be even happier and think about this lower quality DVD as silly, sterile and funny debates memories.

Bear in mind that everything's gonna be "vintage": the buckles, the BAD album, the tickets, t-shirts, the video of the concert, the demos, yet with a zest of freshness thanks to the re-mastered sound and some remixes.

I find that the 80s had so much originality that you could watch anything in crap version it didn't matter, because it was so good.

Love this post and how the positive side of this is seen. This is exactly how I'm treating this release myself. As a kid of the 80's this whole pakage, including the Wembley concert is an opportunity for me to relive the Bad era with a sense of nostalgia and charm that was of the time.

It's easily the best release since The Ultimate Collection, except this is a whole lot better. We'd already seen the Bucharest concert and apart from about 10 demos/rarities/unreleased tracks, Bad 25 gives us a disc of demos/rarities, live album, tour programme, ticket replicas, 2 booklets, and Wembley dvd, and also confirmed (as a few of us already knew anyway from talking to people who were there) The Way You Make Me Feel is included!!!

Given the circumstance, this release is fantastic and if your not ganna except the reality of the situation at this stage then your probably not gonna get into the spirit of things. This situation doesn't rule out a blu-ray release down the road, when the film footage is found. Given what went down in Neverland in 93 and 04, when MJ's home was invaded and torn apart, it's no wonder things have been misplaced. Lets take the postives and look forward!

 

[Silouette]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

Y'all know your stuff, dontcha? Lol!
Me? I'm just tryna see a good quality DVD.

Oh, thanks MJ Estate for the response.

 

[StellaJackson]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

FOH Mixes are the mixes made each night, (from the sound mixing console in the middle of the arena) that the audience hears.

The type of enhancement of audio quality that (I think) you believe you are seeking from these FOH Mixes is technically impossible.

Can you clarify whether or not The Way You Make Me Feel was performed that night? You must know cos you provided the audio to the Estate right?