A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality [Discussion]

[Nighty]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

Thanks. But are those mixes so bad that those concerts are "unusable"?

Well, you have to consider the fact that FOH mixes are not as precise as a truck recording. You're surrounded by thousands of screaming people, trying to mix as good as possible versus being in a truck with a more controlled environment mixing a show. And to top it of, the audio on old tapes deteriorate with time - loads of hiss and noise gets on there, stereo width gets more mono, so trying to save that will be a hell of a project. Now instead they'll use a multitrack recording from a soundtruck, so we will get as pristine sound we could possibly get combined with it being able to be mixed in 5.1 surround, which wouldn't be possible with just the audio from the FOH mixes..

 

[soulmum]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

Many thanks to the estate for being honest with us, much appreciated. Loving the fact that they are actually listening to and taking notice of the fans opinions.

 

[Karthik]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

. I disagree some what with you becuase I think the Quality will be exceptable and the Best
the Estate can offer from this VHS

Do you mean acceptable when you say exceptable? Is it because you pronounce it that way? This is not the first time I noticed that.

 

[WildStyle]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

They aren't "unusable." They're about as unusable as VHS and they're using that. In this case they just decided against using it. It wouldn't sound any worse than the Yokohama show. One day they'll put some of it out I'm sure.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

The short answer ( and I have heard those mixes) is unfortunately 'pretty much yes'

The front of house mixes were fantastic concert mixes, really really excellent, but you have to understand that a FOH mix is created specifically to drive those huge speaker systems. This type of mix is very differrent in construction to a studio mix, and the 'finesse' of any FOH mix is obviously greatly constrained by the working environment.

One more question:

Do you know if the Wembley, that night, is the only second leg concert recorded on multitracks like they are saying, or they just can not find others? What about LA '89? Thanks.

 

[Go Flying]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

One more question:

Do you know if the Wembley, that night, is the only second leg concert recorded on multitracks like they are saying, or they just can not find others? What about LA '89? Thanks.

I don't know of any other 2nd leg concert recorded to multitrack in the way that wembley was.

To their great credit, the estate has been 100% straight up with their statement.

 

[ivy]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

That means Lowry Digital? I'm happy cause it is in pretty good hands now Only problem is that VHS could be poor source tho.

If its Lowry, then i'm positive the result will be very good. They can do "magic" sometimes. Frame by frame correction can fix alot. Maybe it wont look defined as from master, but good enough to enjoy the dvd.

I don't know what company they are talking about. but I know that the Apollo 11 restoration was a huge deal back in 2009. It was widely reported that Neil Armstrong's walk on the moon footage was lost. The reality was NASA used to record every mission in full on film but as it required too much film, they would tape over the later missions on the same film so they didn't have the original masters. It was remastered from a 40 year old recording of the TV broadcast.

When they said NASA that's the thing that I remembered. Again I don't know what firm or what technique the Estate is talking about.

And all the discussions were to make the estate to take statement, why vhs, why that night, whats going on.

Well as I said before the statement was released on Monday and I had contacted them on Tuesday and they had said it'll be addressed. and now they started to address it. so some speculation and negativity was unneeded IMO. People could have waited for the upcoming statement.

 

[Pentum]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

So let me get this straight, the Estate CAN get whichever concert Nocturne recorded if they want to?

 

[ivy]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

So let me get this straight, the Estate CAN get whichever concert Nocturne recorded if they want to?

how did you come to this opinion?

What I am reading from the statement is that Nocturne turned over everything to Michael's staff and everything was sent to Michael's storage facilities in LA.

There's no indication that Nocturne has anything in their possession.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I don't know what company they are talking about. but I know that the Apollo 11 restoration was a huge deal back in 2009. It was widely reported that Neil Armstrong's walk on the moon footage was lost. The reality was NASA used to record every mission in full on film but as it required too much film, they would tape over the later missions on the same film so they didn't have the original masters. It was remastered from a 40 year old recording of the TV broadcast.

When they said NASA that's the thing that I remembered. Again I don't know what firm or what technique the Estate is talking about.



Well as I said before the statement was released on Monday and I had contacted them on Tuesday and they had said it'll be addressed. and now they started to address it. so some speculation and negativity was unneeded IMO. People could have waited for the upcoming statement.

There was no speculation nor negativity. They announced VHS without details. It is what it is.

Now they explained the reasons, they don't have the master film and they do the best they can to restore it. Again, it is what it is, but at least we are informed. Also they made us understand that they are still searching for the master films.

Now, can we stop with constant paranoia of so called negativity and speculation. Can we discuss issues without being labeled negative and speculative? Be"cause of such statement some fans are convinced that there are conspiracy theorists all around when it clearly is not the case.

 

[Gfresh]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

The Way You Make Me Feel as an extra from another show that was taped with the 2-channel audio mix is fine...
Do it, Sony!

Is there any proof that he RE-placed TWYMMF for DD? He just added DD on the set-list.. I don't think TWYMMF was not performed.

 

[dam2040]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

He performed TWYMMF. Where does this rumour come from? My source is someone who was ACTUALLY THERE that night, and they know he did it

 

[Pentum]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

how did you come to this opinion?

What I am reading from the statement is that Nocturne turned over everything to Michael's staff and everything was sent to Michael's storage facilities in LA.

There's no indication that Nocturne has anything in their possession.

Sorry, I got confused.

Man, this is so weird. To know that most of the 123 Bad world tour concerts are scattered around, lost, some even destroyed probably.

What did I say a while back? The Estate didn't have any concerts. Most fans thought they had it all.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

So let me get this straight, the Estate CAN get whichever concert Nocturne recorded if they want to?

Nocturne has nothing. They gave everything to Michael's staff. Estate already have the majority of recorded concerts, but apparently they are all unusable because of poor audio quality.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

Sorry, I got confused.

Man, this is so weird. To know that most of the 123 Bad world tour concerts are scattered around, lost, some even destroyed probably.

What did I say a while back? The Estate didn't have any concerts. Most fans thought they had it all.

They have most of them but with poor audio quality.

 

[Pentum]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

They have most of them but with poor audio quality.

Isn't that "poor audio quality" the same as Yokohama?

 

[Boggy]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I feel relieved !!!

Thanks Ivy/ MJJC team for having reached the Estate to voice our concerns.

Thanks the Estate for having addressed the issues asap with detailed explanations.

Really appreciated.

 

[januska]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I'm thankful for getting some questions answered, but it's still such a shame there's no better quality available for the estate to use for this release.. I definitely hope this isn't "case closed" for them, instead they will keep going through stuff and looking for the films. :yes:


One thing that I'm wondering about is the audio though.. What kind of audio recording do we have in those Rome and Tokyo '88 concerts (or the parts that have leaked)? Because I would have no problem with that audio quality.. It would be pretty cool if after this Wembley release with outstanding audio they gave us other shows even with inferior audio quality, maybe just downloadable versions if not a DVD boxset. Maybe it's just me but I'd love to see all BAD concerts :wild:

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

Isn't that "poor audio quality" the same as Yokohama?

I don't think so. Read the statement again and read what Go Flying said few posts back.

"We also could have chosen to release the Japanese concert from the first leg of the tour as there is a master of that show"

 

[Pentum]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I don't think so. Read the statement again and read what Go Flying said few posts back.

"We also could have chosen to release the Japanese concert from the first leg of the tour as there is a master of that show"

I read that, but I assumed "master" of Yokohama meant video quality and not audio quality

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I read that, but I assumed "master" of Yokohama meant video quality and not audio quality

I think they meant both. audio and video. In my opinion Yokohama bootleg has good audio quality. About other shows they have they said "the audio is extremely problematic and therefore these concerts are unusable".

 

[Pentum]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

^ Yeah, Yokohama has great audio quality. Video is OK.

Would like to hear some audio example of these "unusable" recordings.

 

[Graf]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

^ Yeah, Yokohama has great audio quality. Video is OK.

Would like to hear some audio example of these "unusable" recordings.

Me too...

 

[WildStyle]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I would think they mean problematic in the sense that they don't have the multitracks and therefore cannot create new dynamic mixes. With the 2 track stereo mixes (which is what they have on the videos) the mixes are already set and can't be changed, and may not be up to very high standards. However it wouldn't be unlistenable. It would just mean they couldn't say "Michael's vocals are too low here turn it up a little." Or "That keyboard is way too overbearing, turn it dow some." Stuff like that. It would pretty much be on par with all the bootlegs we've gotten.

 

[ivy]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

Sorry, I got confused.

Man, this is so weird. To know that most of the 123 Bad world tour concerts are scattered around, lost, some even destroyed probably.

What did I say a while back? The Estate didn't have any concerts. Most fans thought they had it all.

You know what I think?

I think Bad tour was never shot or intended for a release. Michael had stated that he never wanted the concerts released in full, preferring fans to see him live. They shot and used whatever was needed for Moonwalker etc. but never intended a full concert release.

Everything else was recorded
for fun - as the colorist guy said
with generally not best conditions - such as FOH audio recording
it was just for Michael's own viewing - as everything is sent to his personal storage facilities and not to the record or production companies for archiving/ safe keeping and there wasn't any record keeping or tracking of those material.

This can also be the reason why Bad tour was never released in Michael's lifetime as well

 

[Eric]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I'm so glad the estate went with what they did. Can you imagine if they went with a Bad tour show that they had high quality video for, but the the audio sucked? That would have just been horrible! I'd much rather have high-quality audio and decent quality video, which is what we will get come September!

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

Michael Jackson probably recorded everything for fun. Yeah, an experienced businessman investing his money in video recording his concerts for fun. Happy times!

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I would think they mean problematic in the sense that they don't have the multitracks and therefore cannot create new dynamic mixes. With the 2 track stereo mixes (which is what they have on the videos) the mixes are already set and can't be changed, and may not be up to very high standards. However it wouldn't be unlistenable. It would just mean they couldn't say "Michael's vocals are too low here turn it up a little." Or "That keyboard is way too overbearing, turn it dow some." Stuff like that. It would pretty much be on par with all the bootlegs we've gotten.

Yeah, but with much much better video quality.

 

[WildStyle]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

Yeah, but with much much better video quality.

Basically, which is why I have no problem with them coming out in the future.

Even if only on a small collectors label for the fans like Elvis or Jimi Hendrix.

 

[Jesta]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

Michael Jackson probably recorded everything for fun. Yeah, an experienced businessman investing his money in video recording his concerts for fun. Happy times!

As Ivy said, it's highly probable that Michael never recorded these for a full release, but he probably had other business ventures in mind i.e. promotional videos, examples to show Pepsi to perhaps renew their deal in '91/'92 etc. Plus, we all know Michael loved to document everything, so it was a form of fun for him. His private home movies are an example of things recorded for fun i.e. behind the scenes footage of short films etc.

And besides, all concerts that were televised are available in some format, and judging by this statement even the masters are available i.e. Yokohama. No doubt the concerts that didn't see some kind of release were put into storage. After all, Michael didn't like to live in the past. As soon as an era was over and done with, he would have everything put in storage and begin again. The idea that he wouldn't want to release concerts - a constant reminder of imperfections and a visual embodiment of the past - is completely feasible. Hell, the first MJ concert commercially released was in 1997... AND ONLY IN KOREA!!! Bucharest was only released when The Ultimate Collection came along, and thus it could be seen as some kind of contractual obligation fulfilment.

Plus, let's not forget that Michael often made gifts of his ventures in the past i.e. allegedly giving people unreleased songs and the VHS of Buenos Aires etc. These recordings could've been given away to numerous people in Michael's staff. The possibilities are endless for where these recordings and numerous unreleased items could be!