A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality [Discussion]

[Rudolf]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I've been holding myself back because i have been enjoying listening to DBMA. After reading through the constant complaints i just had to say something.
Firstly, The Estate owes you and i absolutely nothing, they could of decided not to release any new material and continued making money off the material that already existed.
Secondly, Some of you act like you know better than the Estate and that rumours and speculation actually translate into facts... they don't.
Thirdly, Stop complaining about not having a Blu-Ray release, it's clear that you don't understand how restoration works, they CANNOT improve the quality of the film, all they can do is restore the film to the state it was when it was first copied. This means there is absolutely no point in a Blu-Ray copy of a VHS film.
Finally, The Estate did what they could, they didn't have to make a statement, but they did. If there was a better quality picture that they had, they WOULD be releasing it, as they would not have to spend money on restoration efforts.

Regards, Larry. PS: BAD 25!!!!!!!

There is no such thing as VHS film. We were talking about Estate getting original film reels and transfering to HD. That's completely other source than VHS.

 

[Billie Jean 78]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I've decided to completely support the decision of the Estate! I'm very much looking forward to this DVD and it's great they decided for the Wembley concert!
And the first MJ Live album ever is something we simply can not complain over!

I believe they will have done the best they could by the time the DVD is released. And look on the bright sight - maybe it's even better if they first release a DVD and maybe years later a BR if it's possible - that way we still have something to look forward to, regarding the Bad Tour! This way they can drag the experience of getting new MJ products for years to come!

The only thing I regrett is not getting a cinema release and I believe that this one is a lost opportunity now!

And I also wonder where this experience of not getting the master tapes of the Bad Tour or not knowing whee they are, leaves the possibility of ever getting a Victory Tour DVD???

 

[Hess]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

There is however one piece of information in the Estate's communication that is very important: "to look for".

This indicates, and I hope I am not wrong, that they will relentlessly be searching for the lost material such as the original film of the BAD Tour concerts and, why not, other tours as well. And this is what I call reassuring.

As a collector of MJ's officially released music and videos, I will have to consider this DVD release as a vintage with a touch of lost memories from the 80s regarding the video quality. It has its own charm. To me this lower video quality will have that charm as long as I know that they are still looking for the original film and that one day they will proudly announce its blur-ray release. The master is not vanished, it is just lost among other films. It takes time to dig everything out, but I have faith we'll eventually get there.

This vintage DVD can be enjoyable thanks to the surround sound.

The day they find out the original film and put it on blu-ray, we'll all be even happier and think about this lower quality DVD as silly, sterile and funny debates memories.

Bear in mind that everything's gonna be "vintage": the buckles, the BAD album, the tickets, t-shirts, the video of the concert, the demos, yet with a zest of freshness thanks to the re-mastered sound and some remixes.

I find that the 80s had so much originality that you could watch anything in crap version it didn't matter, because it was so good.

Yeah. That's a good way ot thinking about it.

This VHS wembley release is what we get until they find the masters to another concert and release on Blu-Ray!

 

[Remington Steele]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

A couple of questions:

1.) As they have stated they are talking about Umatic tapes that went to the archives: Why are some still hoping for a Blu-ray? As far as I could read at wikipedia, the best Umatic format was a bit better than S-VHS, meaning it would have DVD quality at best (which is far from Full HD).

2.) For the VHS restoration, they stated they hired a company that already did restoration for NASA (!). Wow, that really gives me some hope. If they're going that far, couldn't they even use another technology: I read of a technique were you can use standard definition video, take high def photographs of the same setting, and the software makes the video high def (!). Couldn't they use that technique? Anybody know how well that works? (I have forgotten the source)

3.) Will the DVD have Surround sound and will they use uncompressed PCM format? Did some of the fans already mention this wish to the estate? I hate compressed music DVDs (Dolby Digital is about 1:10 or 1:12 compressed AFAIK).

 

[charismatic]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

i'm happy the Estate provided us the background they provided. I think we need to fully support this project so they can understand how important it is to us that they find the film footage. If we put all our money into this project and support it 100%, the Estate will be certain that they will get way more than they could ever expect to get as a return on their investment if they continue to hunt for those film reels.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

A couple of questions:

1.) As they have stated they are talking about Umatic tapes that went to the archives: Why are some still hoping for a Blu-ray? As far as I could read at wikipedia, the best Umatic format was a bit better than S-VHS, meaning it would have DVD quality at best (which is far from Full HD).

2.) For the VHS restoration, they stated they hired a company that already did restoration for NASA (!). Wow, that really gives me some hope. If they're going that far, couldn't they even use another technology: I read of a technique were you can use standard definition video, take high def photographs of the same setting, and the software makes the video high def (!). Couldn't they use that technique? Anybody know how well that works? (I have forgotten the source)

3.) Will the DVD have Surround sound and will they use uncompressed PCM format? Did some of the fans already mention this wish to the estate? I hate compressed music DVDs (Dolby Digital is about 1:10 or 1:12 compressed AFAIK).

Maybe they will use that techique. I'd be surprised actually that they don't use the best technique there is.

 

[Hess]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

Actually it's very nice to hear the Estate cares so much about the fans!

 

[Rudolf]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

You can't have a Blu-Ray release of a film that is from the 80's... The Quality cannot be improved enough. Im sorry that you cannot understand that a Blu-Ray quality Bad concert is impossible, but thats the truth. Deal with it

Do you understand what is film? 35mm film can achieve up to 4K pixels. 16mm - 2K. 35mm film is like up to 4 times superior quality than 1080p HD Blu-Ray. And we know Wembley has been filmed with both 16mm and 35mm therefore Blu-Ray is possible theoretically, but films aren't in Estate's possession. They have just VHS and abput that you're right, there will be no HD and even no DVD quality. Very good VHS at best.

This is VHS -

This is film -

And now please take a look at Queen Live in Montreal 1981 Blu-Ray made from FILM -

 

[Rudolf]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I'm happy about this statement. Glad that Estate took time and cleared up this. Now I hope that VHS is in good standing and they restore it as good as they can.
*waiting for a trailer showing the footage*

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

3.) Will the DVD have Surround sound and will they use uncompressed PCM format? Did some of the fans already mention this wish to the estate? I hate compressed music DVDs (Dolby Digital is about 1:10 or 1:12 compressed AFAIK).

If I am not mistaken the PCM format is available only on blu-ray.

 

[Hess]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I hope the quality will be enjoyable. - And I think it will. - It's MJ for crying out loud!! :lol:

 

[Remington Steele]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

If I am not mistaken the PCM format is available only on blu-ray.

You are mistaken, most (or all?) MJ Sony DVDs have uncompressed PCM sound.

Another question I forgot:

4.) As the Umatic tapes seem to be not digital (which would explain the problems with sound, it was the same problem with VHS stereo sound, after about 1 decade it could get unusable): It seems to me they don't bother to digitalize all they have as fast as they can. Couldn't someone suggest this to them? The picture and sound quality will get worse and worse over the years...

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

You are mistaken, most (or all?) MJ Sony DVDs have uncompressed PCM sound.

Many DVDs are in DTS format due to the lack of space. But you are right DVDs can also be played with PCM format.

 

[Rudolf]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

It's not NASA people , it's the people that was hired by NASA and NASA DID restore the 40 year old footage of first moon landing from a recording of the TV Broadcast. (they had re-taped later missions over the initial master film to reduce the costs of missions, so they didn't have the original masters)

so care to explain what's funny?

That means Lowry Digital? I'm happy cause it is in pretty good hands now Only problem is that VHS could be poor source tho.

 

[lom kit]

That means Lowry Digital? I'm happy cause it is in pretty good hands now Only problem is that VHS could be poor source tho.

If its Lowry, then i'm positive the result will be very good. They can do "magic" sometimes. Frame by frame correction can fix alot. Maybe it wont look defined as from master, but good enough to enjoy the dvd.

 

[MJBT]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

Thank You to the Estate for giving us a bit more info on the matter, it's still a tradegy they are unable to locate the original fingers crossed it will be found I have hope, like many I'm still curious about the the missing film prints it makes sense the action they have taken, theres a lab I that featured in a documentary about the kidnapping of the girl of 21 years from America, the responsible burnt a tape of he and this were able to show the FBI what was on that burnt considering the damage they did an impressive job.

I hope release a trailer closer to the release to show us the final product

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

This is kinda like a double edged sword situation and they can't win no matter what they do

Release good quality 1st leg Japan - but piss fans off as it's been widely available and seen by most

Release good quality video but weaker audio - but piss fans off because they can't enjoy the live singing

Release good quality audio but weaker video - but piss fans off because they can't see the performance well

Try a mix and match of good audio and video from different shows or make a concert from best takes from multiple concerts - but piss fans off because it's not authentic concert experience and it's a cut / paste job

Don't release anything as they don't have the "perfect" product - but piss fans off because they waited and asked for Bad tour performance for so long.


This is a situation whatever the decision was there would have been a group that's unhappy.

Releasing good quality video but weaker audio would be million times better. I want to watch DVD, not just listen it. If they have great audio then they should release that concert on CD (like they will), and not try to create something (DVD) just because they have that audio.

 

[dam2040]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

Some of us have changed our tone. We were against it, wanted a Blu-Ray or whatever. Now this, and we all seem to be happy with the DVD? They would have released a Blu-Ray had the chance been available because it would mean more money, but it obviously wasn't so they had to use the DVD. I have been watching VHS restorations on YouTube and they are nothing but outstanding. Strong hopes this project will silence alot of people.

 

[Bubs]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I agree with the estate's decision, thanks for explanation.

I'm curious what other good news they have in store for us as this was posted in twitter:
MJ OnlineTeam ?@MJonlineteam
After 12 PM EDT on Monday, 6/4, there will be a great reason for you to go to http://MichaelJackson.com! #whosbad


more good news :clapping:

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I agree with the estate's decision, thanks for explanation.

I'm curious what other good news they have in store for us as this was posted in twitter:
MJ OnlineTeam ?@MJonlineteam
After 12 PM EDT on Monday, 6/4, there will be a great reason for you to go to http://MichaelJackson.com! #whosbad


more good news :clapping:

Probably Don't Be Messin' Around stream.

 

[Galactus123]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

Thank you Estate! I really hope that they will add The Way You Make Me Feel as bonus material from other Bad Tour concert. It would be a bonus so high quality audio is not necessary.

 

[lom kit]

For those who think some of us are never satisfied, let me put it that way.

What if the bad25 is like the dangerous se (2001)? Just the album without any extra material. Then anyone would say "whats the point of this", "why no demos"...
Knowing that there are material left. Do you imagene what was going on then?
The same is with wembley. We know the 2 shows are filmed on 16/35 mm. And all wonder why no hq dvd and blu-ray. It turns out the estate don't have the film masters.
And all the discussions were to make the estate to take statement, why vhs, why that night, whats going on.


So, do you understand what was all about?

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

One question:

What does it mean: "front of house mixes"? and why are those concerts "unusable"? Wouldn't be easier to try to enhance audio quality than video quality from personal VHS. Is it possible to somehow enhance that audio or are those shows lost forever? I would prefer high quality video and low quality enhanced audio.

 

[lom kit]

Thank you Estate! I really hope that they will add The Way You Make Me Feel as bonus material from other Bad Tour concert. It would be a bonus so high quality audio is not necessary.

This is a concert and not some sitcom dvd. So HQ audio is very much necessary. Some of us have home theater systems. Aaaaaand the cd will have 80% of the concert.

 

[Galactus123]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

This is a concert and not some sitcom dvd. So HQ audio is very much necessary. Some of us have home theater systems. Aaaaaand the cd will have 80% of the concert.

I meant only for The Way You Make Me Feel if its from other concert.

 

[Go Flying]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

One question:

What does it mean: "front of house mixes"? and why are those concerts "unusable"? Wouldn't be easier to try to enhance audio quality than video quality from personal VHS. Is it possible to somehow enhance that audio or are those shows lost forever? I would prefer high quality video and low quality enhanced audio.

FOH Mixes are the mixes made each night, (from the sound mixing console in the middle of the arena) that the audience hears.

The type of enhancement of audio quality that (I think) you believe you are seeking from these FOH Mixes is technically impossible.

 

[Sunwalker7]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I totally support the Estate's decision. I see no point in complaining about the quality of the DVD when it's the best quality we can have under the circumstances. Maybe we'll get a better quality DVD some day in the future, but now I'm just happy we're getting this. Bad25 seems like an awesome project, I can't wait for the release!

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

FOH Mixes are the mixes made each night, (from the sound mixing console in the middle of the arena) that the audience hears.

The type of enhancement of audio quality that (I think) you believe you are seeking from these FOH Mixes is technically impossible.

Thanks. But are those mixes so bad that those concerts are "unusable"?

 

[Hess]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

I can't wait!!!

This summer will be ONE LOOOOOoooOOONG wait!!


:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Go Flying]

Re: A Message from the Estate Of Michael Jackson Re Wembley concert DVD Quality

Thanks. But are those mixes so bad that those concerts are "unusable"?

The short answer ( and I have heard those mixes) is unfortunately 'pretty much yes'

The front of house mixes were fantastic concert mixes, really really excellent, but you have to understand that a FOH mix is created specifically to drive those huge speaker systems. This type of mix is very differrent in construction to a studio mix, and the 'finesse' of any FOH mix is obviously greatly constrained by the working environment.