Who is the Queen of Pop?

honestly I can't think of any woman for pop. Now r&b is a good debate but pop. I can't think of anyone talent wise who is deserving. Maybe mariah but I wouldn't say she is strictly pop. I don't know any thing about D. Ross to agree so NO woman has reached that status yet.

Madonna is overrated imo is not lengendary at all. imo
 
honestly I can't think of any woman for pop. Now r&b is a good debate but pop. I can't think of anyone talent wise who is deserving. Maybe mariah but I wouldn't say she is strictly pop. I don't know any thing about D. Ross to agree so NO woman has reached that status yet.

Madonna is overrated imo is not lengendary at all. imo
It doesn't matter if you think she has any talent. Success wise it is Madonna, that can't be denied. There's college courses based on her. MJ isn't King Of Pop because of his talent, but because he was very successful, the same as Will Smith being King of July 4th weekend, Aretha as Queen Of Soul, or Elvis being called King of Rock n Roll. Elvis actually hated this title, and would get upset if people mentioned it around him. Very little of Elvis' music is actually Rock, mostly the pre Army stuff.
 
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It doesn't matter if you think she has any talent. Success wise it is Madonna, that can't be denied. There's college courses based on her. MJ isn't King Of Pop because of his talent, but because he was very successful, the same as Will Smith being King of July 4th weekend, Aretha as Queen Of Soul, or Elvis being called King of Rock n Roll. Elvis actually hated this title, and would get upset if people mentioned it around him. Very little of Elvis' music is actually Rock, mostly the pre Army stuff.

^I agree. It's not a matter of taste IMO,but a matter of fact. Just like I cant get into The Beatles at all (shoot me if u want :ph34r:) but I never dream of denying their status of being the biggest band ever.
Madonna is the most successful female artist ever (?) and that we cant take away from her :yes:
 
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It doesn't matter if you think she has any talent. Success wise it is Madonna, that can't be denied. There's college courses based on her. MJ isn't King Of Pop because of his talent, but because he was very successful, the same as Will Smith being King of July 4th weekend, Aretha as Queen Of Soul, or Elvis being called King of Rock n Roll. Elvis actually hated this title, and would get upset if people mentioned it around him. Very little of Elvis' music is actually Rock, mostly the pre Army stuff.
Of course it matters. I think you should have both for the title, have success and talent. There are alot of artist out who's music sucks and have success but I'm not gonna crown them with JACK. Talent come first and formost in my book. If one does not have talent then im really not trying to hear it. Period.
 
Madonna wouldn't have lasted this long without any talent. Personally I think titles are stupid, and no one is above another. So who the queen, prince, king, etc is doesn't mean anything to me.
 
Madonna wouldn't have lasted this long without any talent. Personally I think titles are stupid, and no one is above another. So who the queen, prince, king, etc is doesn't mean anything to me.

Just because she's been around forever doesn't mean she is talented. Elvis is dead and gone and is consider God in music but the man had made no innovations whatsoevever, so since people are STILL talking about Elvis that makes him original? aH...no. Madonna has manage to last this long because she adapted with the times and was a smart business woman. She is far from original, made no innovations in music and her voice is very average. She had the right producers and market base to get her to where she is at. Nobody is not denying that she IS successful because she is BUT whether or not she EARNED it, whether or not that makes her A "Queen" thats a different story. The woman was inducted in the "Rock Hall of Fame" with legends like The Beatles and Marvin Gaye, WTF? I would NEVER EVER put Madonna in the same category as I would Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder, come on give me a break BUT thats the mentality that we have now in music. For example, I don't get how anybody can compare the artists of today to the great acts of the past. Its no comparision, the artists now are mediocre at best OR just have no talent. It doesn't matter how many awards you win, it doesn't matter how many grammies, how many records you sell, how MUCH people may like you, how much attention you get and how popular you are. In Music, for you to be a legend that makes you different from the rest. You also changed something in music or did something for the music industry to BE remember AS a legend. MOST of the king, queen titles etc, James, Michael, Aretha are ALL legends. Madonna is not. Madonna is just a commericial artist that was successful and was popular, NO legend.
 
Just because she's been around forever doesn't mean she is talented. Elvis is dead and gone and is consider God in music but the man had made no innovations whatsoevever, so since people are STILL talking about Elvis that makes him original? aH...no. Madonna has manage to last this long because she adapted with the times and was a smart business woman. She is far from original, made no innovations in music and her voice is very average. She had the right producers and market base to get her to where she is at. Nobody is not denying that she IS successful because she is BUT whether or not she EARNED it, whether or not that makes her A "Queen" thats a different story. The woman was inducted in the "Rock Hall of Fame" with legends like The Beatles and Marvin Gaye, WTF? I would NEVER EVER put Madonna in the same category as I would Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder, come on give me a break BUT thats the mentality that we have now in music. For example, I don't get how anybody can compare the artists of today to the great acts of the past. Its no comparision, the artists now are mediocre at best OR just have no talent. It doesn't matter how many awards you win, it doesn't matter how many grammies, how many records you sell, how MUCH people may like you, how much attention you get and how popular you are. In Music, for you to be a legend that makes you different from the rest. You also changed something in music or did something for the music industry to BE remember AS a legend. MOST of the king, queen titles etc, James, Michael, Aretha are ALL legends. Madonna is not. Madonna is just a commericial artist that was successful and was popular, NO legend.

You do realize that what just spewed out there is nothing but biased opinion, right? Opinion. Just because you think it doesn't make it reality. You're simply one of the people still bitter that after all this time, the person you call talentless, is as relevant as ever. Madonna has become what she is today through hard work, determination, and talent. She may not be the best singer but she is an artist who has something to say. If people would care to look deeper in to the actual music, Madonna has a deep and impressive body of work. Everyone is so hung up [no pun intended] on the commercial side of her that they often fail to realize what she has to offer artistically which is far more than she will ever be given credit for. So much is often said about Madonna because there is much more to her than meets the eye. Madonna offers a little something for everyone which is why she's a global superstar. She's been written off many times but no matter how hard they may try, underneath it all, Madonna is a talented and driven artist who is always creating whether it be music, books, or behind the camera.
 
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Having talent and being innovative are two different things. The Four Tops, Teddy Pendergrass, or Whitney Houston are very talented. But they aren't innovative or original.
 
^ so what. To be in the GAME, to get in you should have some level of talent. Thats like getting hired for a job when you don't have all of the qualifications. You shouldn't be recording music (with lyrics) if you cannot sing or don't meet a certain standard.

Ok so once you get in the game now it's a matter of what you do, what you create, how original or innovative you are. All of that comes in to play after you get in the game. But maddona shouldn't have even gotten a record deal to begin with so...she isn't even credible IMO.

Madonna could have done something, made movements and done great things on the business side of music but as far as recording artist go. She shouldn't have even made the cut is all im saying.

That's like hiring a bank teller that cannot count. Sure she maybe good at customer service but she is sorely lacking the ability to give customers the correct amount of money. She didn't qualify for that position. But she could answers the phone. This is all im saying. This is why maddy gets no title, well from me at least.:no:
 
Personally I think titles are stupid, and no one is above another. So who the queen, prince, king, etc is doesn't mean anything to me.
i agree. and what annoys me is when people take marketing-friendly, cultural titles seriously and appoint it to music. makes no sense.
 
You do realize that what just spewed out there is nothing but biased opinion, right? Opinion. Just because you think it doesn't make it reality. You're simply one of the people still bitter that after all this time, the person you call talentless, is as relevant as ever. Madonna has become what she is today through hard work, determination, and talent. She may not be the best singer but she is an artist who has something to say. If people would care to look deeper in to the actual music, Madonna has a deep and impressive body of work. Everyone is so hung up [no pun intended] on the commercial side of her that they often fail to realize what she has to offer artistically which is far more than she will ever be given credit for. So much is often said about Madonna because there is much more to her than meets the eye. Madonna offers a little something for everyone which is why she's a global superstar. She's been written off many times but no matter how hard they may try, underneath it all, Madonna is a talented and driven artist who is always creating whether it be music, books, or behind the camera.


Girl are you crazy? Your contradicting everything that you just said with that statement because at the end of the day Thats YOUR OPINION to.You don't know a got damn thing about me, how in the world are you going to tell me what kind of person I am just because I think Madonna is overrated and irrelevant? Thats freaking immature. Everybody in the world does NOT like Madonna and not everybody has to. You need to get that through your head and accept it. If you like Madonna fine BUT don't bash other people and label what kind of person somebody is when were just talking about MUSIC. Don't take it personal. You say that EVERYTIME somebody has something that you think is not right toward Madonna. Who cares? If you dig her, keep listening to the music YOU love and keep thinking the way you do about her BUT that doesn't mean EVERYBODY has to feel the same way because everyone doesn't.


I gave Madonna her credit, she was a successful business woman, thats it. You need to get out of your fandom and BE a little open minded to other people's opinion. Don't be so quick to think that someone is bashing your favorite artist when there not.
 
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Having talent and being innovative are two different things. The Four Tops, Teddy Pendergrass, or Whitney Houston are very talented. But they aren't innovative or original.

There is a difference but that depends on what your suggesting. Original can also be define in other categories like, sound, singing etc. If your just implying that someone is talented thats fine BUT that don't make you a queen of anything or a legend because its MORE to that than just being talented. Anybody can just be "talented"

The whole title thing is wack in itself and I'm not all that pressed about titles. The title though "Queen of Pop" is about MORE than just being talented. You have to have contributed something in Pop or change pop music like Michael Jackson did and was innovative as well to get a title like that. I'm going to use MJ as an example even though I hate to bring him up, MJ was popular to. He was mainstream but he was extremely talented, original, innovative, talented in other areas, such as songwriting, dance, film etc. He influenced other areas besides just music and other genres besides JUST "pop". MJ is one of a handful of artists that was commericial BUT exactly had REAL talent. Nowdays MOST of the mainstream artists have NO talent and are not original.


So far most of the suggestions, like Madonna and others have not contributed anything in music, let alone "pop" music even if their music was "popular". Now if the original question was, "Who was the most successful female pop artist" or "Queen of business" something like that, than maybe I would pick Madonna BUT even still there are plenty of other choices for that as well.
 
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Girl are you crazy? Your contradicting everything that you just said with that statement because at the end of the day Thats YOUR OPINION to.You don't know a got damn thing about me, how in the world are you going to tell me what kind of person I am just because I think Madonna is overrated and irrelevant? Thats freaking immature. Everybody in the world does NOT like Madonna and not everybody has to. You need to get that through your head and accept it. If you like Madonna fine BUT don't bash other people and label what kind of person somebody is when were just talking about MUSIC. Don't take it personal. You say that EVERYTIME somebody has something that you think is not right toward Madonna. Who cares? If you dig her, keep listening to the music YOU love and keep thinking the way you do about her BUT that doesn't mean EVERYBODY has to feel the same way because everyone doesn't.

I gave Madonna her credit, she was a successful business woman, thats it. You need to get out of your fandom and BE a little open minded to other people's opinion. Don't be so quick to think that someone is bashing your favorite artist when there not.

First of all, I'm not a girl. No hard feelings. I'm most certainly not taking anything personal nor have I judged you as a person. Whose taking things personally? I can only "judge" your attitude in responses to others. I'm simply defending my rights. Again, everything you said was just your opinion. Just because you say it, doesn't make it true. You can say I contradict myself all you like, but I'm not the one trying to tell another to view one of their favorite artists as media savvy only but not actually a talented artist. I find Madonna to be a very talented artist who has contributed more than her fair share to pop music. Madonna's music was always cutting edge and opening up a dialog like no other artist before her. Madonna challenged societies and their taboos through her music. I have heard so many of todays starlets refer to Madonna as their idol. Some very talented, some not so much [Miley Cyrus being the latest to declare her admiration]. I personally love how much thought goes in to her music, lyrics, videos, and stage shows. She takes risks and releases the kind of music she wants to no matter what anyone thinks [with varied results]. Madonna says and does as she pleases. No, you aren't a fan. No, you don't have to be one, but that doesn't mean that others can't see her as all the things that you don't. That's what you need to get. That's why I said you say things so matter of fact. As if just because you said it makes it true, and yet in the same breath tell me I'm wrong and don't know what I'm talking about. Erm.... ok. Saying/telling someone you accept opinions and let others have them and actually doing it is two different things.

And don't worry. I'm done with this whole thing. I've said all I can say and either way it will never be enough. It all comes down to opinion and so long as everyone can present theirs as actual opinion then all is well. I've presented my own ideals and backed them up and that's all I can do. You think Madonna is talentless as an artist. Fine. I don't. That's that. You can't expect me, as a fan, to not let my voice be heard or to challenge hostile views about one of my favorite artists. Opinions are made to be challenged. You don't have to change yours, but you can't expect everyone else to sit back quietly. We can all be heard but just keep it civil. That's where my problem with your opinions come in. I don't appreciate being called crazy. Suggesting that I don't know what I'm talking about- that is the exact type of attitude I have a problem with. I have never once during our back and forth debates taken things to a personal level. I can't say the same for you [whether you realized it or not which I'm guessing not]. You are always the first to say "Hey, it's just my opinion" and "Don't take it to a personal level" all the while presenting it as fact and knocking down anyone else that challenges you in any way you can. It doesn't work that way. I'm not upset with you and I'm letting it all go but I did feel it important to let you know that you're behavior at times needs adjustment. I wouldn't have said anything at all had you not said more or less that I'm clueless. That was mean spirited.

Again, I am not upset with you [also hoping you can take criticism as well as you dish it] and I hope that in the future things can be on a more civil level between us.

Thanks.

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Here's an older article talking about Madonna's musical talents and role in pop music. A sort of validation of my own personal beliefs. Just backing up my thoughts...


Still Breathless, After all these Years
By Mo Shah
madonna_breathless_main.jpg

Remember when there was only one woman who could get inside your MTV and really
fuck with it? Remember when only one woman could flash that tricky one-two punch of cutting-edge dance-pop and mesmerizing, scandal-drenched visuals? To say that Madonna was an innovator is putting it mildly. To say that she was an instigator is stating the obvious. But to submit that she was the last female pop-culture revolutionary of the 20th century, well...now you’re getting somewhere.
Madonna is an artist for whom fame has reached such unscalable heights, and whose persona has become so infused in the limelight, that one often wonders what it is she became famous for in the first place. After all, it’s her lifestyle that we usually discuss, not always her music. One often forgets that Madonna was the first female pop-star who truly owned and controlled her music, image, and career. And in the process she completely manipulated her audience and the media with her songwriting, her videos, and most importantly – her sexuality.





Ah yes, her sexuality. Music alone did not solely sell her as a prized commodity. It was the scandal and visual art that went along with the songs, albums, and videos that elevated her to iconic status. But beneath all the surface gloss, the scandal, the “Erotica”, and the straight and slanted affairs, lies a truly gifted artist armed with a remarkable canon of music. For the first time in Madonna’s career, her new album has been ushered-in with transatlantic critical and commercial praise – however, it is being lauded only for the music, not for the controversy. For Madonna fans, this is a novelty some may not be accustomed to.

While her self-titled 1983 debut “Madonna” is still considered to be a pop masterpiece, and its follow-up “Like a Virgin” was one of the best-selling albums in pop-music history, there was always a sense of irreverent decadence while enjoying her music. When it played in clubs, one really felt there was something overtly sexual and deviant behind the delectable beats and timeless lyrics. Be it her orgasm inducing catholic wedding dress roll-around in the Like a Virgin video – or a timeless shot of her romping in black underwear a year prior (“Desperately Seeking Susan”), Madonna was always able to control the media image of herself behind the music. Her celebrity became so inflated by the late Eighties that her marriage to actor Sean Penn literally collapsed under the weight of the camera-glare.

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But all of these developments did little to tame Madge, and the Material Girl came back roaring with an even more controversial album – with even
better songs and sales. Her “Like a Prayer” album dispelled rumors that her star was on the decline; it was her most polished and critically acclaimed work to date. The fact that the video for the lead single sported burning crosses and interracial relations with a saint only exacerbated its rise to the top of the charts. Throw in a couple of flings with Warren Beatty and Sandra Bernhard – and you’re on your way to Billboard heaven. She even brought back the underground gay Vogue art-form while she immersed herself in gay culture.

Then there was Madonna the fashion arbiter. She was perhaps the most emulated symbol in fashion history during her reign in the Eighties and Nineties. Her ability to reinvent her personal style - from her designer
du jour to her hair stylist, colorist (right down to the arm-candy that escorted her to high-flying gigs) – could bridge any continental divide. For her album “Erotica”, Madonna issued a limited edition book with full frontal shots of her vagina…it sold out in a day.

Her music also grew more and more complex. While her tracks were always updated slicker versions of disco grooves with a new wave or pop confection flare - she now began dabbling in electronica. The results were an unqualified success. By working with some of the most acclaimed and groundbreaking producers of the time, she managed to make each new album a landmark. There was something about her work that seemed timeless and simultaneously fresh. And it had personality. Each album gelled with the new persona she reinvented for herself; be it Deviant-Madonna, Classic-Madonna, Indo-Madonna, Sino-Madonna, or Esther – she always delivered each album with enough pomp and circumstance to send it soaring.

Funny then, that her latest album, “Confessions on a Dance Floor”, is one of her greatest achievements
without carrying any of the hallmarks mentioned above. There is no controversy here – after all, Madonna will never be able to trump Lil’ Kim’s jail stint – or Brittany’s crazy-ass buffoonery. And what about fashion? Well, she’s got the whole 80s Robo-electro look down, but while she’s going all Flashdance on us, it’s already been done a couple of year ago (Goldfrapp, Ladytron). And the videos? Anything mind-bending? Nope – just very well made catchy stuff – nothing that the kids couldn’t watch. And finally, the music. Did she break new ground? No. For the first time in her career, she decided to follow suit. She adopted the 80s electro-dance resurgence that began sweeping over the hipster scene in 2000, and made it her very own.

Sure it’s been done before (even by Gwen Stefani) – but possibly not in such a commercial sense. Considering this is a sound she herself helped usher-in and define over two-decades ago, she has every right to reclaim it. And reclaim it she does in grand fashion. This is the most fun anyone will have with a Madonna album in over a decade. It may make her seem like a veteran rather than an innovator, but when it feels this good, who the fuck cares? The production is slick and irresistible. The look is fantastic – and since Madge is inching closer and closer to the half-century mark, she should get an honorary post-doctorate in self preservation (she already gets one for “Media-savvy”). I mean, at her age, to be wet-dream material is nothing short of inspiring. The album has already been heralded as an unqualified success, both commercially and critically, with lead singles Hung Up, Get Together, I Love New York, and Sorry being crowd favorites both in record stores and dance clubs. The retrogressive nature of the album lends it not a stale, but a timeless, quality. Not an easy feat to pull off.

With this album, Madonna has not retreated form the Limelight, she is simply basking in it for the very reason she was put here in the first place – her music. No other pop-star will ever grow old this gracefully. And no other woman will influence the music medium quite the way Madonna has. Taking a look at her new persona on this album is akin to falling in love all over again. Like her famous introduction to Warren Beatty goes in Dick Tracy, “I’m Breathless.” You certainly are.


source: http://www.egothemag.com/archives/2006/03/there_was_a_tim.htm
 
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First of all, I'm not a girl. No hard feelings. I'm most certainly not taking anything personal nor have I judged you as a person. Whose taking things personally? I can only "judge" your attitude in responses to others. I'm simply defending my rights. Again, everything you said was just your opinion. Just because you say it, doesn't make it true. You can say I contradict myself all you like, but I'm not the one trying to tell another to view one of their favorite artists as media savvy only but not actually a talented artist. I find Madonna to be a very talented artist who has contributed more than her fair share to pop music. Madonna's music was always cutting edge and opening up a dialog like no other artist before her. Madonna challenged societies and their taboos through her music. I have heard so many of todays starlets refer to Madonna as their idol. Some very talented, some not so much [Miley Cyrus being the latest to declare her admiration]. I personally love how much thought goes in to her music, lyrics, videos, and stage shows. She takes risks and releases the kind of music she wants to no matter what anyone thinks [with varied results]. Madonna says and does as she pleases. No, you aren't a fan. No, you don't have to be one, but that doesn't mean that others can't see her as all the things that you don't. That's what you need to get. That's why I said you say things so matter of fact. As if just because you said it makes it true, and yet in the same breath tell me I'm wrong and don't know what I'm talking about. Erm.... ok. Saying/telling someone you accept opinions and let others have them and actually doing it is two different things.

And don't worry. I'm done with this whole thing. I've said all I can say and either way it will never be enough. It all comes down to opinion and so long as everyone can present theirs as actual opinion then all is well. I've presented my own ideals and backed them up and that's all I can do. You think Madonna is talentless as an artist. Fine. I don't. That's that. You can't expect me, as a fan, to not let my voice be heard or to challenge hostile views about one of my favorite artists. Opinions are made to be challenged. You don't have to change yours, but you can't expect everyone else to sit back quietly. We can all be heard but just keep it civil. That's where my problem with your opinions come in. I don't appreciate being called crazy. Suggesting that I don't know what I'm talking about- that is the exact type of attitude I have a problem with. I have never once during our back and forth debates taken things to a personal level. I can't say the same for you [whether you realized it or not which I'm guessing not]. You are always the first to say "Hey, it's just my opinion" and "Don't take it to a personal level" all the while presenting it as fact and knocking down anyone else that challenges you in any way you can. It doesn't work that way. I'm not upset with you and I'm letting it all go but I did feel it important to let you know that you're behavior at times needs adjustment. I wouldn't have said anything at all had you not said more or less that I'm clueless. That was mean spirited.

Again, I am not upset with you [also hoping you can take criticism as well as you dish it] and I hope that in the future things can be on a more civil level between us.

Thanks.


source: http://www.egothemag.com/archives/2006/03/there_was_a_tim.htm

LOL I said are you crazy? because you said that I was bitter JUST because I said Madonna was overrated, what the hell? You see how immature that sounds? You can't go around labeling people just because they may feel different about something than you. Especially when you've NEVER meant the person and you don't know the person. You made it personal by implying that. You did take it personal when you suggested that I was something that I'm not when you've never even meant me AND please quote me at any time calling you clueless? I never once said that maybe thats how YOU took it (aka TAKING IT PERSONAL because your a fan)

You also need to be alot more openminded to criticism and to other people's opinions. I use to be like that with MJ LOL and hell I still am, I'm probably worse than you BUT I am open minded to other people's opinion or I try to be. You can express yourself but at the same time be open minded

Even though I wouldn't call myself a fan, I honestly find Madonna just "okay' BUT I don't take her seriously as an artist. I also think giving her "The Queen of Pop" title is way overrating her and I also think she is overrated.
Alot of her older music was catchy but thats it. I wouldn't give her a Queen title because of that OR call her a legend. LOL I have no problem with people liking Madonna, hell you can like WHOEVER you want, its fine by me BUT I'm going to speak my mind and keep it real.

You made it seem like I didnt say anything positive about Madonna when I did give her props where I thought she deserve it BUT so what? if you love Madonna thats all that matters.
Like I said before,
if you like Madonna and YOU think she is the Queen of Pop then thats all that matters.
LOL Jona I'm cool. There is no problem here.
 
MOST of the king, queen titles etc, James, Michael, Aretha are ALL legends. Madonna is not. Madonna is just a commericial artist that was successful and was popular, NO legend.
She sure isn't, and neither are the others.
Legend - a story about mythical or supernatural beings or events
Queen - a female sovereign ruler
King - a male sovereign; ruler of a kingdom
 
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I say Madonna.
She's the most popular female pop icon....no doubt!!!!
 
She sure isn't, and neither are the others.
Legend - a story about mythical or supernatural beings or events
Queen - a female sovereign ruler
King - a male sovereign; ruler of a kingdom

:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
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