When do you think Michael and Lisa last spoke?

[mlg2804]

But I dont think so, that LMP is Blankets mother. I read some speculation about that... What do you think girls??

Yeah I've read speculation as well, but in my opinion, no way. Lisa would never give up a baby. If MJ and LMP had had a child when they were married, then I'm sure Lisa would have had joint custody -- she would never have let Michael have sole custody like Debbie did. So no I don't believe Lisa is Blanket's mother.

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

it's just from what that Frank dude said. no way to really corroborate it, hence we don't know if it's true. who knows why she gave up Blanket. if I were to guess, it would be at Mike's insistence, I think. he did not want to share his children with anyone other than Lisa Marie, I expect. with P&P&B, he wanted exclusive parental rights, and he got it with both women (Debbie and the anonymous-to-us egg donor). Mike always had his way. we all know that.

If what Frank Cascio says is true, they (MJ & Blanket's mom) didn't break up amicably. Perhaps Blanket's mom wasn't ready to be a mom but knew she could see Blanket whenever she wanted? As for MJ sharing his kids, I think he stopped trusting LMP and that included trusting her to be the (future & current) mother of his children.

The quote I gave you guys is incomplete. It's not the entire supposed statement from Frank (I dunno if I should post the whole thing). Here's a bit more of the supposed statement from Frank regarding MJ & LMP:

Lisa Marie was the only one he allowed himself to become more than just sexually involved with since Diana, that boy was sprung. Lisa Marie, however, led him to believe they would have a family of their own, but stayed on the pill anyway because even if she said she was a rebel, the little @#$%$ didn't want mommy dearest to get mad at her for having a lil black child. Mike found the pills, split, messed around with a couple of other women with the goal of getting one pregnant just to hurt Lisa (he can be an asshole sometimes, true) and eventually knocked up Debbie, which, (if I didn't love and adore his children and think think they saved his life) I would say was probably one of the biggest mistakes of his
life. He was never faithful to Debbie after they married, never even wanted to marry her but Mike doesn't like to break his mother's heart. He and Lisa continued having sex until 1999 (they weren't "together," they were just @#%$), until he met his third child's mother, fell very much in love with her, but he is his father's son, so he wasn't entirely faithful to her, which is why they split up shortly after she found out she was pregnant. From that time, up until right before these new bullish allegations broke, he was pretty much a dog. No attachment, just sex. He has no time to get attached to somebody and then depressed again after they part ways now that he has his children. I doubt he has time for anybody other than his children and his lawyers now.

And lulu, no I don't believe LMP is Blanket's mother. As mlg2804 said, I believe they would have agreed to joint custody.

 

[indranee]

no, I don't think so. she's like a lioness with her tiger cubs (at one time, she was that way with Mike as well). she'd never let go of a child she created and carried in her womb. in fact, it was one of the reasons for their breakup she cited. she said that she saw the mother of all custody battles if they had kids together. neither of them would let go of the child they had together.

y'know, I wish Mike was less stubborn to have his own way. if he was, maybe he'd still be with us

 

[indranee]

MJJ: G.O.A.T. -- do you believe what he supposedly said there? I mean, I really can't see Mike messing around that much. then again, he's a man and he was pissed as hell.

I just find it sad that he and Lisa broke up over EGOS and PRIDE and a stupid lie. there was NO third party involved. from what I can surmise, Mike was head-over-heels about her and was very, very hurt when (there's a big 'if' here because all this is conjecture still) he discovered those BC pills. if she WAS doing that, my god, shame on her. she should have told him the truth, and should have asked him for some time.

to this day, I find it so, soooo strange that a strong woman like LMP would let her mother, her ex-husband (Danny) and her church dictate to her about her life and her marriage. it's still unbelievable to me, but I guess that's what happened.

 

[mandy543]

I just don't believe the story about MJ sleeping around trying to get some random girl pregnant in order to hurt LMP. Michael wasn't stupid, he would never do such an irresponsible thing. And second, if he did have a relationship with Blanket's mom and loved her so much, why not stay with her and raise the child together? It just doesn't make sense for a woman to love a man, get pregnant, and then give up her child 100% and never say a word? Sounds fishy.

Personally, imo, I think Michael and Lisa were on the road to reconciliation after her breakup with Nic Cage and then Michael had another surrogate give him a baby and Lisa probably got upset again and cut it off for good with him. Just a theory.

 

[dori727]

no, I don't think so. she's like a lioness with her tiger cubs (at one time, she was that way with Mike as well). she'd never let go of a child she created and carried in her womb. in fact, it was one of the reasons for their breakup she cited. she said that she saw the mother of all custody battles if they had kids together. neither of them would let go of the child they had together.

y'know, I wish Mike was less stubborn to have his own way. if he was, maybe he'd still be with us

I was ABOUT to say this ^^^^^^^^^^^ Lisa would have NEVER, EVER given up her kids. And I doubt Mj was sleeping around, he doesn't seem like the type.

On another note, yesterday I saw the interview that Lisa and her mom did on Oprah and to me it seemed like the only two people really bashing on Mike was Oprah and Priscilla. See, Lisa spoke what she thought was true. She never once denied that she loved him, a lot. She even goes on to say that it took her TWO YEARS to get over him and that she had everything from anxiety attacks to depression. The only thing that makes me wonder is if those two years were from 1997-1999 or from 1999-2001? hmmm.... Also, when they talked about NIcolas cage Lisa sort of looked down and stayed quiet. Not a smile or anything. Unlike when they were talking about Michael, or the other Michael. Which makes me question, did Lisa marry nic to forget about Michael?

Oh, and Oprah also asked Lisa if they had had sex and Lisa seemed appalled by the question. Lisa said yes, they had. Then Priscilla jumps out and says "well, that was also in his agenda, he just wanted her babies." Lisa just stopped, turned to her mother and said "Mother, what are you trying to do!" and she looked legit.

 

[dori727]

Personally, imo, I think Michael and Lisa were on the road to reconciliation after her breakup with Nic Cage and then Michael had another surrogate give him a baby and Lisa probably got upset again and cut it off for good with him. Just a theory.

That is also what I believe ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[bluetopez]

Personally, imo, I think Michael and Lisa were on the road to reconciliation after her breakup with Nic Cage and then Michael had another surrogate give him a baby and Lisa probably got upset again and cut it off for good with him. Just a theory.

I don't think so because she told Diane sawyer that she was with an attitude when MJ called to see how she was after nick and her broke up like she was like what the F u want or something like that on the phone and she was like trying to suggest MJ was trying to get back with her and she wasn't gonna have it! That's what I took from the interview when I saw it?

 

[CTU]

I just don't believe the story about MJ sleeping around trying to get some random girl pregnant in order to hurt LMP. Michael wasn't stupid, he would never do such an irresponsible thing. And second, if he did have a relationship with Blanket's mom and loved her so much, why not stay with her and raise the child together? It just doesn't make sense for a woman to love a man, get pregnant, and then give up her child 100% and never say a word? Sounds fishy.

Personally, imo, I think Michael and Lisa were on the road to reconciliation after her breakup with Nic Cage and then Michael had another surrogate give him a baby and Lisa probably got upset again and cut it off for good with him. Just a theory.

am with Mandy here

someone said she was with him at ivy in 2001

article that she and nic had a fight about mj dangling blanket out of window, she fighb with nic causes nic comment on the news. Article also said she kept talking and seeing MJ regularly.

Someone told me that karen Faye said MJ said that lisa's marriage with nic won't last. And it's true. MJ knew cause she was still seeing him and he definitely know what she felt toward him. Are they having a problem? Her relationship with nic before they go married was on and off???

She married nic in2002, Same year as Blanket was born. Same year, coincidence or they fight? MJ found a new girl and pregnant, she wanted to marry nic right away? try to get back at each other? Someone said MJ was in a trance state when he heard that LMP gonna marry nic

MJ trial: he aquitted and left for Bahrain in 2005. LMP marrid Lockwood in early 2006? Why after MJ trial?

 

[lulu]

am with Mandy here

someone said she was with him at ivy in 2001

article that she and nic had a fight about mj dangling blanket out of window, she fighb with nic causes nic comment on the news. Article also said she kept talking and seeing MJ regularly.

Someone told me that karen Faye said MJ said that lisa's marriage with nic won't last. And it's true. MJ knew cause she was still seeing him and he definitely know what she felt toward him. Are they having a problem? Her relationship with nic before they go married was on and off???

She married nic in2002, Same year as Blanket was born. Same year, coincidence or they fight? MJ found a new girl and pregnant, she wanted to marry nic right away? try to get back at each other? Someone said MJ was in a trance state when he heard that LMP gonna marry nic

MJ trial: he aquitted and left for Bahrain in 2005. LMP marrid Lockwood in early 2006? Why after MJ trial?

I read that everyone in Hollywood at the time knew, that Lisa is always after Michael, and she is in his life every time he need her.
Thats why Nick said: "Im not the Glove One" when someone ask him why he and Lisa divorced so quickly...

I think, that Lisa in those interview look like she tought " I love him, but I cant say it on TV, and I`m so mad about that. I want to be with him" but said something diferent...
That what she said isnt, that what she tought. That was just a half truth.
She never denied that she loved him, and that was real relationship. She just want to forget about that, but noone let her do that and she will be always Michael Jackson`s ex wife, and Elvis daughter, not Lisa Marie.
They ask her again and again. And over and over.
But that is just my opinion.

I was just like that.
I was deeply in love with my ex boyfriend long after our brake up, and I would do everything for him at the time.
I was so depresed, but I never showed my true feeling for him after that and I said everyone "I hate him so much. Why I met him. I wish I never see him again" and something like that.
And today I can say, that he is still in my heart.

Maybe today Lisa would say the same.

 

[indranee]

^aww. I get you lulu. believe me, I get you. :wub:

 

[Blackcat]

I was ABOUT to say this ^^^^^^^^^^^ Lisa would have NEVER, EVER given up her kids. And I doubt Mj was sleeping around, he doesn't seem like the type.

On another note, yesterday I saw the interview that Lisa and her mom did on Oprah and to me it seemed like the only two people really bashing on Mike was Oprah and Priscilla. See, Lisa spoke what she thought was true. She never once denied that she loved him, a lot. She even goes on to say that it took her TWO YEARS to get over him and that she had everything from anxiety attacks to depression. The only thing that makes me wonder is if those two years were from 1997-1999 or from 1999-2001? hmmm.... Also, when they talked about NIcolas cage Lisa sort of looked down and stayed quiet. Not a smile or anything. Unlike when they were talking about Michael, or the other Michael. Which makes me question, did Lisa marry nic to forget about Michael?

Oh, and Oprah also asked Lisa if they had had sex and Lisa seemed appalled by the question. Lisa said yes, they had. Then Priscilla jumps out and says "well, that was also in his agenda, he just wanted her babies." Lisa just stopped, turned to her mother and said "Mother, what are you trying to do!" and she looked legit.

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

MJJ: G.O.A.T. -- do you believe what he supposedly said there? I mean, I really can't see Mike messing around that much. then again, he's a man and he was pissed as hell.

I just find it sad that he and Lisa broke up over EGOS and PRIDE and a stupid lie. there was NO third party involved. from what I can surmise, Mike was head-over-heels about her and was very, very hurt when (there's a big 'if' here because all this is conjecture still) he discovered those BC pills. if she WAS doing that, my god, shame on her. she should have told him the truth, and should have asked him for some time.

to this day, I find it so, soooo strange that a strong woman like LMP would let her mother, her ex-husband (Danny) and her church dictate to her about her life and her marriage. it's still unbelievable to me, but I guess that's what happened.

The part about Mike messing around is hard for me to believe. I don't see that in him; no matter how mad or hurt he was. You are right, I think if LMP had any sense, she would have sat down with him and had a long talk about it. Something very ugly must have happened for Mike to be like "You want to lie, fine. Bye!" I really can't believe she would change her mind so quickly from the time they were dating. :smilerolleyes: As for that BC pills stuff, I wonder if this story is the origin of that claim lol.

LMP likes to act as if she's a big rebel and a tough independent girl, but I really feel she's not. If she can let her mom and ex-husband plant ugly lies in her head and it gets to the point where she doubts her husband's love for her, then something is wrong. :no: Communication is key.

On another note, yesterday I saw the interview that Lisa and her mom did on Oprah and to me it seemed like the only two people really bashing on Mike was Oprah and Priscilla. See, Lisa spoke what she thought was true. She never once denied that she loved him, a lot. She even goes on to say that it took her TWO YEARS to get over him and that she had everything from anxiety attacks to depression. The only thing that makes me wonder is if those two years were from 1997-1999 or from 1999-2001? hmmm.... Also, when they talked about NIcolas cage Lisa sort of looked down and stayed quiet. Not a smile or anything. Unlike when they were talking about Michael, or the other Michael. Which makes me question, did Lisa marry nic to forget about Michael?

Oh, and Oprah also asked Lisa if they had had sex and Lisa seemed appalled by the question. Lisa said yes, they had. Then Priscilla jumps out and says "well, that was also in his agenda, he just wanted her babies." Lisa just stopped, turned to her mother and said "Mother, what are you trying to do!" and she looked legit.

 

[mlg2804]

She even goes on to say that it took her TWO YEARS to get over him and that she had everything from anxiety attacks to depression. The only thing that makes me wonder is if those two years were from 1997-1999 or from 1999-2001?

I would hazard a guess that the two years are from the time she filed for divorce in Jan 1996. I went to getty images to see some pics of Lisa and around that time she looks like she's lost a lot of weight. For example, here's one from March 1996.

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xr/50...6399091E83186FDB7B49D4AB36DA747BDFF9914B985FF

Also if you believe Taraborrelli's book, they didn't get in touch again until 1997 and that's because Mike found out Lisa was spending time with Janet. So I think Lisa took a year off from Michael, at least. But to be honest, I would say she never got over him.

The part about Mike messing around is hard for me to believe. I don't see that in him; no matter how mad or hurt he was. You are right, I think if LMP had any sense, she would have sat down with him and had a long talk about it. Something very ugly must have happened for Mike to be like "You want to lie, fine. Bye!" I really can't believe she would change her mind so quickly from the time they were dating. :smilerolleyes: As for that BC pills stuff, I wonder if this story is the origin of that claim lol.

I really wonder what happened as well. I've been looking at the picture galleries up at MJJ Pictures and Steady Laughing.com and up until May/June 1995 Lisa was with him at all his public appearances. Then all of a sudden, she's not on any of his photos and he's travelling all over Europe during the summer of 1995. I guess this must have been the 6 weeks that he disappeared before turning up at the MTV awards.

So I'm guessing things started to go wrong around June 1995, and instead of trying to sort things out Michael just left. If the BC pills story is true, maybe that's when he found out? Again I doubt we'll ever know.

I also read that Michael was apparently planning to sing to Lisa at the MTV Awards, but when he saw her face and how angry she was he decided against it. Now if he was so hurt/betrayed about the BC pills why would he want to sing to her?

So maybe that's not the reason he disappeared for 6 weeks. Anyway, I don't know, it's just a real shame they couldn't work things out. After the MTV Awards he seems to go off on more travels around Europe, and again without Lisa. It could be by the time she visits him in hospital in December 1995, she probably again hadn't seen him in over 6 weeks or more.

Kinda hard to work on your marriage if your husband isn't around.

 

[lulu]

I dont know if its true, but In JRT`s book there is, that Michael after he married Lisa , still hanged out with boys. Lisa told him, that he cant just like that go on vacations with boys, because Lisa and kids are his family now, and they need him.
One time someone told him " Mike, take care of your wife, because you will loose her", but he was so stubborn and said " noone can tell me what should I do, even my wife" and just like that he went to Paris with two young boys, and nothing told her.

He was great man, that is the fact, but sometimes he was like a child...

He doesnt know how to be a husband, how to be a partner.
Maybe....

 

[indranee]

I would hazard a guess that the two years are from the time she filed for divorce in Jan 1996. I went to getty images to see some pics of Lisa and around that time she looks like she's lost a lot of weight. For example, here's one from March 1996.

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xr/50...6399091E83186FDB7B49D4AB36DA747BDFF9914B985FF

Also if you believe Taraborrelli's book, they didn't get in touch again until 1997 and that's because Mike found out Lisa was spending time with Janet. So I think Lisa took a year off from Michael, at least. But to be honest, I would say she never got over him.



I really wonder what happened as well. I've been looking at the picture galleries up at MJJ Pictures and Steady Laughing.com and up until May/June 1995 Lisa was with him at all his public appearances. Then all of a sudden, she's not on any of his photos and he's travelling all over Europe during the summer of 1995. I guess this must have been the 6 weeks that he disappeared before turning up at the MTV awards.

So I'm guessing things started to go wrong around June 1995, and instead of trying to sort things out Michael just left. If the BC pills story is true, maybe that's when he found out? Again I doubt we'll ever know.

I also read that Michael was apparently planning to sing to Lisa at the MTV Awards, but when he saw her face and how angry she was he decided against it. Now if he was so hurt/betrayed about the BC pills why would he want to sing to her?

So maybe that's not the reason he disappeared for 6 weeks. Anyway, I don't know, it's just a real shame they couldn't work things out. After the MTV Awards he seems to go off on more travels around Europe, and again without Lisa. It could be by the time she visits him in hospital in December 1995, she probably again hadn't seen him in over 6 weeks or more.

Kinda hard to work on your marriage if your husband isn't around.

you have to reason it out: Mike's mentality was like a child's, plus he wasn't confrontational at all. he was hurt and angry. so instead of hashing it out with her, he left. perhaps the time alone let him cool down and think things through. if you remember, he didn't even call Lisa for her to show up at the VMAs, his PEOPLE did. they kept badgering her to show up until she said yes. he didn't even have the nerve to do that.

I can imagine that he was contrite and knew she'd be mad at him for doing what he did. so he was gonna sing to her and make amends. her face and her demeanor put a stop to that. at least publicly, and on stage (during YANA -- their song).

though, if you think about the full video of that event, when they were later sitting together, and Mike got the call to go up on the stage to receive the Scream award, she was seen smiling and clapping. and once he looked back and saw that, you can see this HUGE grin on his face.

aww. when I think about it, it makes me so sooo sad. things could have been so very different if only the two of them were more mature about it all. then again, I've been there... I think many of us have been there... lost/destroyed a wonderful relationship because of immaturity. so I can't blame 'em too much.

 

[indranee]

I dont know if its true, but In JRT`s book there is, that Michael after he married Lisa , still hanged out with boys. Lisa told him, that he cant just like that go on vacations with boys, because Lisa and kids are his family now, and they need him.
One time someone told him " Mike, take care of your wife, because you will loose her", but he was so stubborn and said " noone can tell me what should I do, even my wife" and just like that he went to Paris with two young boys, and nothing told her.

He was great man, that is the fact, but sometimes he was like a child...

He doesnt know how to be a husband, how to be a partner.
Maybe....

exactly. he went to Paris with those kids despite Lisa's reluctance. I think Mike really didn't help himself there. he should have known better. but heaven forbid Mike do something he doesn't want to do! so I say this again but with love. L.O.V.E. -- I really wish he wasn't like that. I know I've destroyed many a good thing in my own life with my stubbornness. but boy he takes the cake. he was soooo stubborn.

 

[mandy543]

The part about Mike messing around is hard for me to believe. I don't see that in him; no matter how mad or hurt he was.

I completely agree. Michael wasn't an idiot, he was very rational, smart, and responsible. He would never, ever mess around with random chicks in an attempt to get one pregnant. That is just not something Michael would do. He was too smart for that.

 

[lulu]

though, if you think about the full video of that event, when they were later sitting together, and Mike got the call to go up on the stage to receive the Scream award, she was seen smiling and clapping. and once he looked back and saw that, you can see this HUGE grin on his face.

aww. when I think about it, it makes me so sooo sad. things could have been so very different if only the two of them were more mature about it all. then again, I've been there... I think many of us have been there... lost/destroyed a wonderful relationship because of immaturity. so I can't blame 'em too much.

I saw it many times. He couldnt hide his huge smile when he looked back ...
I tought " Oh, you two...."

I completely agree. Michael wasn't an idiot, he was very rational, smart, and responsible. He would never, ever mess around with random chicks in an attempt to get one pregnant. That is just not something Michael would do. He was too smart for that.

But Debbie was pregnant, when he was still Lisa`s husaband.
He was married man.

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

I can imagine that he was contrite and knew she'd be mad at him for doing what he did. so he was gonna sing to her and make amends. her face and her demeanor put a stop to that. at least publicly, and on stage (during YANA -- their song).

though, if you think about the full video of that event, when they were later sitting together, and Mike got the call to go up on the stage to receive the Scream award, she was seen smiling and clapping. and once he looked back and saw that, you can see this HUGE grin on his face.

Check out the YANA performance again. He sings "though we're far apart" and points to her (or in her direction) with a HUGE grin.

I really wonder what happened as well. I've been looking at the picture galleries up at MJJ Pictures and Steady Laughing.com and up until May/June 1995 Lisa was with him at all his public appearances. Then all of a sudden, she's not on any of his photos and he's travelling all over Europe during the summer of 1995. I guess this must have been the 6 weeks that he disappeared before turning up at the MTV awards.

So I'm guessing things started to go wrong around June 1995, and instead of trying to sort things out Michael just left. If the BC pills story is true, maybe that's when he found out? Again I doubt we'll ever know.

I also read that Michael was apparently planning to sing to Lisa at the MTV Awards, but when he saw her face and how angry she was he decided against it. Now if he was so hurt/betrayed about the BC pills why would he want to sing to her?

So maybe that's not the reason he disappeared for 6 weeks. Anyway, I don't know, it's just a real shame they couldn't work things out. After the MTV Awards he seems to go off on more travels around Europe, and again without Lisa. It could be by the time she visits him in hospital in December 1995, she probably again hadn't seen him in over 6 weeks or more.

Kinda hard to work on your marriage if your husband isn't around.

If they had a knock down, drag out argument about her not wanting to have his kids, six months away might have softened his heart. Dude still loved her. Maybe he still had hope they could work things out. Same if he found the BC pills around June 1995. If the BC pills story is true and he found them later on, he might have decided that was it then. Wasn't he traveling for tours and award shows? She could have easily taken her kids and traveled with him, she was fine to do it when she was desperate to get him back after the divorce. Remember it takes two. She could have hopped on a plane and went after him. So we should remember if he left and didn't contact her he had reason not to; he was pissed and hurt, especially if the BC pills story is true. The woman you love and want to grow old with, who you want to have kids with and said before that she would love to have kids with you now doesn't want to have your children. That hurts. :no:

I completely agree. Michael wasn't an idiot, he was very rational, smart, and responsible. He would never, ever mess around with random chicks in an attempt to get one pregnant. That is just not something Michael would do. He was too smart for that.

Now dating other women after LMP and after Debbie, yeah that's believable. But just to get them preggers? :mello: Dating Blanket's mom, yeah that's believable. And her leaving Mike with the kids, maybe if they had a really nasty break up and she knew she could see Blank whenever.

I know I saw something in that darn LA thread about somebody sending Frank a message on FB and Frank sayin' something like I didn't say that stuff and mike is my friend. But the person or replying posters said frank never said any of that stuff was all lies. Could be some exaggerations and some truth in there.

But Debbie was pregnant, when he was still Lisa`s husaband.
He was married man.

Do we know this for a fact? Like 10000%, out of Debbie's, LMP's or Michael's mouth? If its from J.Randy, pffft...

If 10000% true, were he and LMP separated then?

 

[mandy543]

I saw it many times. He couldnt hide his huge smile when he looked back ...
I tought " Oh, you two...."




But Debbie was pregnant, when he was still Lisa`s husaband.
He was married man.

I'm not really talking about cheating. Debbie wasn't just some random girl, Michael knew her very well and they were friends. I just meant that I don't see Michael as the type of guy messing around with random people he didn't know in an attempt to get one girl pregnant with his kid. It's just weird..He even made sure he picked the right surrogates (intelligent, healthy).

 

[CTU]

I agree, why do we totally believe the I terview, even some of what Michael said in interview isn't true, or sometime conflictig himself. MJ/LMP both an expert in this media bullshit, they'd been played by them and learnt how to deal with it. What they sai on tv is something they wanted to projected. They can say anything and just kept seeing each other. One simple thing, why would LMP mourn that much, wrote her blog for her ex husband who she didn't keep in touch for the past 7-8 years? It seems more like she's mourning for her husband if she doesn't already have another one.

In the interview, prescilla cut her off, cause she's her mom and tried to help her out of that situation at that moment. What if she's acting and giving out the info she planned to give to the media, her mom just cut it off for her. She's not suppose to show her real feeling.

Let's see if u disregard those interview or may b try to think the other way, the result of urthough will turn out totally he other way around.

I was ABOUT to say this ^^^^^^^^^^^ Lisa would have NEVER, EVER given up her kids. And I doubt Mj was sleeping around, he doesn't seem like the type.

On another note, yesterday I saw the interview that Lisa and her mom did on Oprah and to me it seemed like the only two people really bashing on Mike was Oprah and Priscilla. See, Lisa spoke what she thought was true. She never once denied that she loved him, a lot. She even goes on to say that it took her TWO YEARS to get over him and that she had everything from anxiety attacks to depression. The only thing that makes me wonder is if those two years were from 1997-1999 or from 1999-2001? hmmm.... Also, when they talked about NIcolas cage Lisa sort of looked down and stayed quiet. Not a smile or anything. Unlike when they were talking about Michael, or the other Michael. Which makes me question, did Lisa marry nic to forget about Michael?

Oh, and Oprah also asked Lisa if they had had sex and Lisa seemed appalled by the question. Lisa said yes, they had. Then Priscilla jumps out and says "well, that was also in his agenda, he just wanted her babies." Lisa just stopped, turned to her mother and said "Mother, what are you trying to do!" and she looked legit.

 

[CTU]

I'm not really talking about cheating. Debbie wasn't just some random girl, Michael knew her very well and they were friends. I just meant that I don't see Michael as the type of guy messing around with random people he didn't know in an attempt to get one girl pregnant with his kid. It's just weird..He even made sure he picked the right surrogates (intelligent, healthy).

Yeah, I think he really chose his surrogate. I don't like Debbie but have to admit that she's good looking (a bit fat lately), smart. He made sure she has a good gene, look at Prince, he's handsome may b even more than Michael at that age. That's one hing he can buy when he didn't has a choice to have a baby with the one he loves, he chose a god gene instead.

 

[CTU]

I dont know if its true, but In JRT`s book there is, that Michael after he married Lisa , still hanged out with boys. Lisa told him, that he cant just like that go on vacations with boys, because Lisa and kids are his family now, and they need him.
One time someone told him " Mike, take care of your wife, because you will loose her", but he was so stubborn and said " noone can tell me what should I do, even my wife" and just like that he went to Paris with two young boys, and nothing told her.

He was great man, that is the fact, but sometimes he was like a child...

He doesnt know how to be a husband, how to be a partner.
Maybe....

I think it's true, part of him still wanted to hang around those boys, and sure thing that Lisa went against it. May be when they were together after she divorced nic and the trial started, it was in 2003, right. Then they fight again caused the reason trial happened because MJ didn't listen to her and hang out wihthose boys. So when the trial began, it's kind of stop them from further their relationship.

Then the trial, Michale definitely didn't want her to be involved, no matter what. When trial finished, she married Lockwood after Mj left for Bahrain???

 

[mlg2804]

If they had a knock down, drag out argument about her not wanting to have his kids, six months away might have softened his heart. Dude still loved her. Maybe he still had hope they could work things out. Same if he found the BC pills around June 1995. If the BC pills story is true and he found them later on, he might have decided that was it then. Wasn't he traveling for tours and award shows?

I agree that he still had hopes they could work things out, or at least that's the impression I get. Anyway I decided to check out the timeline more accurately about his travelling and stuff and when they were apart etc.

According to the website MJJ Timeline, Michael left for Paris after an argument with her on July 31st, 1995.

http://mjjtimeline.blogspot.com/2009/08/1995.html

Now in the Tarraborelli book there's a whole section about how Michael wants to go on vacation with the Cascio kids to Paris and Lisa's doesn't want him to go. But Michael decides he's going anyway. Of course no one was a fly on the wall, so this is all Tarraborrelli's guess work.

After Paris, Michael travels to Cannes and is there until 12th August.

He's in New York on 17th August as he does the Simulchat for the fans and he's there to film the Earth Song video.

Next up on the timeline are the MTV Awards which we know both Lisa and Michael attended on 7th September. So if Lisa hadn't had any contact with him from 31st July to 7th September, that would be just over 6 weeks.

Another interesting thing I came across from an interview with Lisa here:-

http://www.lisamarieonline.net/lisa/interviews/GQ.php

When she mentions filming the You Are Not Alone video, she says she'd just returned from Hawaii. The YANA video was filmed on July 10th. So it looks like they were already taking separate vacations/trips before Michael went off to Paris with his friends.

Also of interest in that interview, Lisa says:-

When he wasn't working and we'd just hang out at the house it was fine. We'd go shopping and go to dinner, people would come over. Although that was only for the first six, seven months, then all that kind of dwindled away. It kind of went to hell in a handbasket.

Lisa here seems to say that things starting wrong only 7 months into the marriage -- that would be around Dec 1994. To me it's obvious she's happiest when he is around, when she'd have his full attention and they could have as "normal" a life as possible.

Now also of interest is what Michael says in the Simulchat on August 17th. Here is a quote re Lisa.

Question: How has your marriage to Lisa Marie changed your life?

Michael Jackson: I think I find it more fun to appreciate what family really means.
the fact that even though there were 10 of us Jacksons and we were always doing
things at different times and I am really learning the real meaning of love. Giving
100% of yourself all the time. Putting up with one another. So far it has been pretty
joyous.

He's also asked about divorce rumours in the Simulchat, which he completely denies.

Then he did an interview for Woman's Day magazine in Australia, which is quoted in Tarraborrelli's book. Michael says:-

‘We’re so happy,’ he added of his marriage. ‘We do it our way. I don’t know if it’s conventional. My parents have been married for forty years. Is their marriage conventional? Were Lisa’s parents in a conventional marriage? I don’t think so. I love being married, knowing that Lisa is there,’ he continued.’ She’s strong. She’s smart. She’s on my side, listens to me, understands me, understands my world.'

So from this, you'd hardly gather that the marriage was in rocky waters, though I also realize Michael wouldn't announce this publicly either. But anyway though I'd post it as I found it of interest.

Okay, back to the timeline. So after 6 weeks apart they see each other at the MTV Awards on Sept 7th. From the MJJ Timeline website it shows he's in Washington DC on Sept 23rd at the BET Awards. On November 3rd he flies to Cologne, Germany. On Nov 4th he's in Munich doing the Wetten Das performances. Dec 4th he's in New York, rehearsing for the One Night Only concert. Dec 6th he collapses during rehearsals and is taken to hospital. Lisa sees him in hospital, I am guessing either on 6th or the 7th. He is discharged from hospital on 12th December. Dec 18th he's back at Disneyland Paris with the Cascio kids.

So I could guess that maybe Lisa and Michael were together between Sept and November, before he left for Germany. Then maybe she didn't see him again till she visited him in hospital.

She could have easily taken her kids and traveled with him, she was fine to do it when she was desperate to get him back after the divorce. Remember it takes two. She could have hopped on a plane and went after him.

Yes I guess she could have. But perhaps he didn't want her to. We don't know. Maybe she didn't know where he'd gone or how to contact him. She didn't even hear directly from him about attending the MTV Awards, but from a member of his staff.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, hope I haven't bored anyone. I just found the timeline thing of interest and thought I'd post it.

 

[CTU]

Thanks for this, he always praised her and her support. I think she was a great wife as hard as MJ's wife could be, and he's the only wife he had. There's one item at the auction accompany with a letter siged by LMP saying that the hat was used by MJ at one of his event. When I read it, I felt like she was really active as his wife, involving with his work and his life. Not only be there to spend good times together, but really involve with him in every way. I wish life wouldn't be too hard for them, how sad tha his life is way to hard to live in. I don't know, she seems to be the only one he really loved, that he allow her full access to his life. And the fact that he never got married again except DR which was baby business for him. The only answer I can come up with is Lisa is the one and only for him, he can't find anyone to replace her, or may be he didn't even try to find one.

 

[mandy543]

I agree that he still had hopes they could work things out, or at least that's the impression I get. Anyway I decided to check out the timeline more accurately about his travelling and stuff and when they were apart etc.

According to the website MJJ Timeline, Michael left for Paris after an argument with her on July 31st, 1995.

http://mjjtimeline.blogspot.com/2009/08/1995.html

Now in the Tarraborelli book there's a whole section about how Michael wants to go on vacation with the Cascio kids to Paris and Lisa's doesn't want him to go. But Michael decides he's going anyway. Of course no one was a fly on the wall, so this is all Tarraborrelli's guess work.

After Paris, Michael travels to Cannes and is there until 12th August.

He's in New York on 17th August as he does the Simulchat for the fans and he's there to film the Earth Song video.

Next up on the timeline are the MTV Awards which we know both Lisa and Michael attended on 7th September. So if Lisa hadn't had any contact with him from 31st July to 7th September, that would be just over 6 weeks.

Another interesting thing I came across from an interview with Lisa here:-

http://www.lisamarieonline.net/lisa/interviews/GQ.php

When she mentions filming the You Are Not Alone video, she says she'd just returned from Hawaii. The YANA video was filmed on July 10th. So it looks like they were already taking separate vacations/trips before Michael went off to Paris with his friends.

Also of interest in that interview, Lisa says:-

When he wasn't working and we'd just hang out at the house it was fine. We'd go shopping and go to dinner, people would come over. Although that was only for the first six, seven months, then all that kind of dwindled away. It kind of went to hell in a handbasket.

Lisa here seems to say that things starting wrong only 7 months into the marriage -- that would be around Dec 1994. To me it's obvious she's happiest when he is around, when she'd have his full attention and they could have as "normal" a life as possible.

Now also of interest is what Michael says in the Simulchat on August 17th. Here is a quote re Lisa.

Question: How has your marriage to Lisa Marie changed your life?

Michael Jackson: I think I find it more fun to appreciate what family really means.
the fact that even though there were 10 of us Jacksons and we were always doing
things at different times and I am really learning the real meaning of love. Giving
100% of yourself all the time. Putting up with one another. So far it has been pretty
joyous.

He's also asked about divorce rumours in the Simulchat, which he completely denies.

Then he did an interview for Woman's Day magazine in Australia, which is quoted in Tarraborrelli's book. Michael says:-

‘We’re so happy,’ he added of his marriage. ‘We do it our way. I don’t know if it’s conventional. My parents have been married for forty years. Is their marriage conventional? Were Lisa’s parents in a conventional marriage? I don’t think so. I love being married, knowing that Lisa is there,’ he continued.’ She’s strong. She’s smart. She’s on my side, listens to me, understands me, understands my world.'

So from this, you'd hardly gather that the marriage was in rocky waters, though I also realize Michael wouldn't announce this publicly either. But anyway though I'd post it as I found it of interest.

Okay, back to the timeline. So after 6 weeks apart they see each other at the MTV Awards on Sept 7th. From the MJJ Timeline website it shows he's in Washington DC on Sept 23rd at the BET Awards. On November 3rd he flies to Cologne, Germany. On Nov 4th he's in Munich doing the Wetten Das performances. Dec 4th he's in New York, rehearsing for the One Night Only concert. Dec 6th he collapses during rehearsals and is taken to hospital. Lisa sees him in hospital, I am guessing either on 6th or the 7th. He is discharged from hospital on 12th December. Dec 18th he's back at Disneyland Paris with the Cascio kids.

So I could guess that maybe Lisa and Michael were together between Sept and November, before he left for Germany. Then maybe she didn't see him again till she visited him in hospital.



Yes I guess she could have. But perhaps he didn't want her to. We don't know. Maybe she didn't know where he'd gone or how to contact him. She didn't even hear directly from him about attending the MTV Awards, but from a member of his staff.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, hope I haven't bored anyone. I just found the timeline thing of interest and thought I'd post it.

Wow, very very interesting.. I havent heard some of the stuff you mentioned before

 

[dori727]

^^^^^^^ I Also heard that Danny would hate when Lisa took the kids traveling with Michael, and that sometimes he would threaten to take them away from her and everything. For example, he was really upset when he found out Lisa took the kids to Africa to visit Michael. So, this could be another reason why she didn't travel with her kids a lot.

 

[lulu]

mlg2804, thanks for this.. Very interesting...:yes:

Thanks for this, he always praised her and her support. I think she was a great wife as hard as MJ's wife could be, and he's the only wife he had. There's one item at the auction accompany with a letter siged by LMP saying that the hat was used by MJ at one of his event. When I read it, I felt like she was really active as his wife, involving with his work and his life. Not only be there to spend good times together, but really involve with him in every way. I wish life wouldn't be too hard for them, how sad tha his life is way to hard to live in. I don't know, she seems to be the only one he really loved, that he allow her full access to his life. And the fact that he never got married again except DR which was baby business for him. The only answer I can come up with is Lisa is the one and only for him, he can't find anyone to replace her, or may be he didn't even try to find one.

I think that Lisa gave all herself to him.
When they told official, that they get married Lisa said:

My married name is Mrs. Lisa Marie Presley-Jackson. My marriage to Michael Jackson took place in a private [...]
I am very much in love with Michael, I dedicate my life to being his wife. I understand and support him. We both look forward to raising a family and living happy, healthy lives together. We hope friends and fans will understand and respect our privacy.

I think, yes... She still is his wife..in her heart...

They were so happy together, but around them was so many bad people, noone belive their love, and all Priscillas advices, Michael`s behavior and stubborness, Lisa`s stubborness too, and all that mess with media..
That is so sad...
World don`t let them to be together...

 

[CTU]

mlg2804,

I think, yes... She still is his wife..in her heart...

May be that's true, and may be in his heart too???