Update: Alejandra responds /MJ Estate asking court to remove Alejandra and her kids from Hayvenhurst

[LindavG]

I'm just going on based what justthefacts said..If she goes to a court and says she can't take care of them and Jermaine has abandoned them then she wants the estate to pay for the guardian or w/e..Well, they may not be abandoned in the sense of Jermaine never seeing them, but it's a kind of an abandonment of refusing to take care of the children in a financial sense..Alejandra and Jermaine have to stop depending on others people to take care of their kids...I mean Alejandra even refused to take a free Condo because she is so set on staying in Encino..She is so damn ungrateful..I say just kick them out and let the parents actually take responsibility, rather than let them squirm away and let other people do it for them.

Yes, but like I said, isn't Alejandra asking for a guardian ad litem, someone who only looks out for the kids' financial interests like Margaret Lodise does for PPB? So it's not a matter of "taking care of the children" as that would still be Alejandra's responsibility. But I don't see what financial interests the children have at this point or why the Estate should cover for that?

 

[xthunderx2]

Yes, but like I said, isn't Alejandra asking for a guardian ad litem, someone who only looks out for the kids' financial interests like Margaret Lodise does for PPB? So it's not a matter of "taking care of the children" as that would still be Alejandra's responsibility. But I don't see what financial interests the children have at this point or why the Estate should cover for that?

I agree..they are not Michael's children....it is not HIS fault that his brothers do not financially support their children..Michael should not be expected to. Alejandra has her nerve asking for this to be. What do HER children NEED a guardian ad Litem for?? There has to be something going on that we are not aware of yet.

 

[Graf]

Yes, but like I said, isn't Alejandra asking for a guardian ad litem, someone who only looks out for the kids' financial interests like Margaret Lodise does for PPB? So it's not a matter of "taking care of the children" as that would still be Alejandra's responsibility. But I don't see what financial interests the children have at this point or why the Estate should cover for that?

Well, I don't know why she wants a guardian ad litem for her children, but she obviously feels that she is entitled for the estate to pay for that, just as she feels entitled to live in the Encino home. I have a feeling that asking for a guardian ad litem has to do with the incapacities of her financial situation though. Also it is a matter of taking care of the children, Jermaine is refusing to financially support his children and you can bet Alejandra and Jermaine have had many discussions..She doesn't want to get a regular job and Jermaine isn't gonna do his part, so she's doing this. She's just trying her best to make sure she doesn't haven't to do any work, she wants someone to take care of her...This is probably why is trying to get a Reality Show, maybe she thinks that will be her ticket to a easy ride.

 

[Soundmind]

like someone said before, she is preparing to claim that not only they should stay at Encino but they should be supported financially because that's how things used to be when MJ was alive . I believe she will sooner than later claim her kids are in some way or other beneficiaries of his estate because they were provided for by MJ when he was alive. I'm aware using this argument would have been more efficient if done within the timeframe to challenge the will. I don't believe she is legally able at this stage to ask for her kids to be named by the judge as beneficiaries based on the argument that no one was providing for them but MJ and they were living off MJ all their lives and he had no right to exclude them from his will . Knowing her, she will try her luck .

In probate matters if a beneficiary fights the excutors and the will he/she can ask the court to force the estate to pay their attorey's fees. That's the only explanation I could find.

 

[Diplomate]

I'm just going on based what justthefacts said..If she goes to a court and says she can't take care of them and Jermaine has abandoned them then she wants the estate to pay for the guardian or w/e..Well, they may not be abandoned in the sense of Jermaine never seeing them, but it's a kind of an abandonment of refusing to take care of the children in a financial sense..Alejandra and Jermaine have to stop depending on others people to take care of their kids...I mean Alejandra even refused to take a free Condo because she is so set on staying in Encino..She is so damn ungrateful..I say just kick them out and let the parents actually take responsibility, rather than let them squirm away and let other people do it for them.

Wait a minute...so it's mean Michael, the Estate now, could pay for any kids who doesn't have parents? Or kids who got parents who don't want to take care of them?



Lol! Gonna be busy the Estate:lol:

 

[Graf]

Wait a minute...so it's mean Michael, the Estate now, could pay for any kids who doesn't have parents? Or kids who got parents who don't want to take care of them?



Lol! Gonna be busy the Estate:lol:

I think it's just kids who got parents who want others to take care of them and refusing to take full responsibility.

 

[Autumn II]

I think what's happened here is the following:

As it is in the will, Michael provided for his MOTHER in life. Katherine is an adult, and it would seem that Michael preferred not to micro-manage or treat her like a child or some sort of "underling." He gave HER money/supported her. He didn't delve into how she spent the money he gave her, i.e. was some of it going to support other family members/overstaying household GUESTS?

For example, I'm sure he knew perfectly well that some of the money went to Joseph, but didn't ask his mother for any sort of accounting as to how she spent the money once he gave it to her. I believe that was RESPECTFUL, on Michael's part. Now, it's coming to light where some of that money really was going? (In a sense, Katherine passing money to her other children may have kept them in a state of dependency, and with a sense of entitlement?)

I do think the will says a lot. He gave money to NO family members except for his children and his mother. What his mother does with that money, is whatever she does. Just as it was when Michael was alive. Clearly, the money she receives monthly should be more than enough. . excessive, even. But maybe NOT with so many other people with their hands out?

I think it will be impossible to prove in any court that Michael was supporting "everyone." He was supporting his MOTHER, and what she did with the money after it came to her. . . was her choice. As it should still be. NOBODY else but Katherine and Michael's children is "entitled" to anything, just as the will states.

 

[bouee]

I think what's happened here is the following:

As it is in the will, Michael provided for his MOTHER in life. Katherine is an adult, and it would seem that Michael preferred not to micro-manage or treat her like a child or some sort of "underling." He gave HER money/supported her. He didn't delve into how she spent the money he gave her, i.e. was some of it going to support other family members/overstaying household GUESTS?

For example, I'm sure he knew perfectly well that some of the money went to Joseph, but didn't ask his mother for any sort of accounting as to how she spent the money once he gave it to her. I believe that was RESPECTFUL, on Michael's part. Now, it's coming to light where some of that money really was going? (In a sense, Katherine passing money to her other children may have kept them in a state of dependency, and with a sense of entitlement?)

I do think the will says a lot. He gave money to NO family members except for his children and his mother. What his mother does with that money, is whatever she does. Just as it was when Michael was alive. Clearly, the money she receives monthly should be more than enough. . excessive, even. But maybe NOT with so many other people with their hands out?

I think it will be impossible to prove in any court that Michael was supporting "everyone." He was supporting his MOTHER, and what she did with the money after it came to her. . . was her choice. As it should still be. NOBODY else but Katherine and Michael's children is "entitled" to anything, just as the will states.

Yes, I think that's what was going on when Michael was alive.

But now, since the estate is still in probate, is Katherine receiving enough to provide for all the people she wants to provide for ?

My understanding is that Katherine gets a fixed allowance based on HER needs, and when the probate is over she will get a percentage of the estate profits.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it could be the basis of Alejandra's problem.

 

[Prince Of Pop]

She needs to get off her lazy ass and get a damn job and stop leeching on the family. Same with Jermaine and Randy. Support your children morons!

 

[Autumn II]

Yes, I think that's what was going on when Michael was alive.

Pretty sure that was the case. For example, Joseph tried and failed to prove that Michael was the source of his support, when it was actually Katherine, with money Michael gave her.

But now, since the estate is still in probate, is Katherine receiving enough to provide for all the people she wants to provide for ?

Probably NOT. I think when Michael was alive, he didn't ask for any sort of accounting from her. But, the estate IS asking, and the amount she gets should be much more than enough, if it was really only for HER.

My understanding is that Katherine gets a fixed allowance based on HER needs, and when the probate is over she will get a percentage of the estate profits.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it could be the basis of Alejandra's problem.

Don't think you are "wrong," at all. When the will is out of probate, money will go to Katherine. There must be a huge jockeying for position going on, from others in the family/extended family, to try to get a piece of it. I do think that will be between them and Katherine, though, and they will get NOTHING directly from the estate. Just as the will says.

 

[xthunderx2]

Pretty sure that was the case. For example, Joseph tried and failed to prove that Michael was the source of his support, when it was actually Katherine, with money Michael gave her.



Probably NOT. I think when Michael was alive, he didn't ask for any sort of accounting from her. But, the estate IS asking, and the amount she gets should be much more than enough, if it was really only for HER.



Don't think you are "wrong," at all. When the will is out of probate, money will go to Katherine. There must be a huge jockeying for position going on, from others in the family/extended family, to try to get a piece of it. I do think that will be between them and Katherine, though, and they will get NOTHING directly from the estate. Just as the will says.

I totally think you are right..I can just picture the whole scenario...they have NO shame at all...ANY of them. I am just so done with them. They are waiting for the estate to cut Katherine a check form her dead son...the Lord knows how many hands will be outstretched in front of Katherine. See I almost started to feel bad for her again....to bad for Ms Katherine...really it is...it cannot be easy on her having all of those leeches up her ass looking for money all the time.

 

[twinklEE]

who knows when the estate is getting out of probate its already nearly 2 years andits still in probate considering g katie's age its fair to say, the leeches are not willing to take the risk of waiting for it to get out of it
everytime I think about Alejandra I wonder whats more worse her sleepiing with two brothers or 2 brothers sleeping and impregnating the same woman

 

[xthunderx2]

who knows when the estate is getting out of probate its already nearly 2 years andits still in probate considering g katie's age its fair to say, the leeches are not willing to take the risk of waiting for it to get out of it
everytime I think about Alejandra I wonder whats more worse her sleepiing with two brothers or 2 brothers sleeping and impregnating the same woman

either way..IMO that is on Alejandra....she is nasty..how a woman could ever let that happen is beyond me. uke:

 

[twinklEE]

[/B] either way..IMO that is on Alejandra....she is nasty..how a woman could ever let that happen is beyond me. uke:

IMO, i think ALL the involved parties lacked/lack on moral, while entering into this triangle relationship.

 

[xthunderx2]

IMO, i ALL the involved parties lacked on moral, while entering into this triangle relationship.

yes,,I agree..like we said..NONE of them have any shame at all. it really is quite disgusting to see absolutly NO standards at all. That is why they rely so much on Michael...."cash cow"....disgusting.

 

[twinklEE]

yes,,I agree..like we said..NONE of them have any shame at all. it really is quite disgusting to see absolutly NO standards at all. That is why they rely so much on Michael...."cash cow"....disgusting.

I know girl, it's just uke:

 

[Moulin Rouge]

Now I remember why I took a break from this site...the comments here are out of line.

Just the usual doing the most as usual, just laugh at the tomfoolery :lol:

 

[Soundmind]

My understanding is that Katherine gets a fixed allowance based on HER needs, and when the probate is over she will get a percentage of the estate profits.
Correct me if I'm wrong,

yes you are dead wrong lol
allowance based on her needs is what she will get for the rest of her life and this allowance will be taken from the trust which is created in her name . Regardless of how much that trust worth Katherine is only entitled to monthy allowance to cover he basic needs nothing more nothing less . Unlike his kids she has no right to ask for a house to be registered in her name, she has no right to ask for money to start a business That's what the will says.

That's why Weizman said the estate was very generous with her when they bought her a car and lent her money.

 

[bouee]

yes you are dead wrong lol
allowance based on her needs is what she will get for the rest of her life and this allowance will be taken from the trust which is created in her name . Regardless of how much that trust worth Katherine is only entitled to monthy allowance to cover he basic needs nothing more nothing less . Unlike his kids she has no right to ask for a house to be registered in her name, she has no right to ask for money to start a business That's what the will says.

That's why Weizman said the estate was very generous with her when they bought her a car and lent her money.

Yes I get the part that she is not entitled to the estate - and whatever is in it, like the house, etc...-

She gets an allowance, what I'm not sure about is how this allowance is calculated :

My understanding is that while the estate is in probate she gets a fixed allowance, when the probate is over, she gets 40% of the profits (not 40% of the estate ), during her lifetime.

Then there could be a huge difference between a fixed allowance, and 40% of the profits.

 

[Soundmind]

Bouee darling ,

I don't believe MJ mentioned anything related to probate issues in his will beside the clause that stated if any beneficiary objected to his will he/she automatically would be dropped from his will.
the named beneficiaries in a will receive a monthly allowance determined by the probate judge to cover their needs until probate is over, so MJ had no hand in determining how much each would receive during the probate .

He said the executors had to create three trusts, one in his kids name, the second in his mother's name and one in charities name.

After the probate is over the profits are distributed as 40% , 40% and 20% and deposited into each trust.

Now regardless of how much profits are generated and how each trust worth:

Out of the 40% deposited into the kids trust, they will be entitled to monthly allowance covering their basic needs, their tuition must be paid college, when they get married they can ask for wedding expenses, they can ask for money to buy a house, they can ask for money to start a business ...etc and eventually they will start to get portions of the estate once they reach 30 .

Out of the 40% deposited in his mother's trust, she can ask for a monthly allowance to cover her basic needs , beside that she has no right to ask for anything else.
The allowance in both cases is determined by the executors and they have the right to reinvest the profits deposited in those trust and help expand the estate and its properties .

So based on the above it is up to Branca and co to determine how much Katherine's allowance will be after the probate ends , and if they choose to stick to what the judge ordered them to pay now, Katherine can do nothing about it.

MJ very much limited her ability to use his money to support other members of the family which speaks volume

 

[MJStorm]

Oh stop it..Katherine was truthful in that interview and that is all.

:lies :lies :lies :lies :lies :lies :lies :lies

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Michael Jackson fans are addressing his family the sh*t is disrespectful to him and his kids. I

what the jacksons are doing to michael and his children is disrespectful to mj and his kids. but mjs not here anymore so it doesnt matter does it. the fact some fans will defend anything certain family members do no mater how it disrespects mj just confirms what flag u have pinned your colours to. dont be shocked if you come to a mj board and find mj fans have issues with that. like others said dont like it dont come here. just as mj fans have been pushed out of other supposed mj boards cause they dare to support that man instead of his family and their actions. find somewhere that suits your opinion.

 

[bouee]

Soundmind darling,

thanks for explaining.

So basically, if we're back on topic, Alejandra being "fumigated" and "starved" out of the house by the estate (still can't get over that one), and asking for a guardian at litem that is paid by the estate.

She thinks, for some reason, that she is legally entitled to something, or better said, that her minor kids are.
And if it's true that the estate offered her a condo and she refused, then there is something else.

If she refused because of a confidentiality agreement, can she say that the estate / the jacksons are preventing her from earning money, and so preventing her from earning money + failing to pay child support = forced to stay at Hayvenhurst for her kids (and fumigated in there ...)

it's a lot of speculations...

the kids are the real victims , I wonder how they must feel about the situation.

 

[xthunderx2]

Bouee darling ,

I don't believe MJ mentioned anything related to probate issues in his will beside the clause that stated if any beneficiary objected to his will he/she automatically would be dropped from his will.
the named beneficiaries in a will receive a monthly allowance determined by the probate judge to cover their needs until probate is over, so MJ had no hand in determining how much each would receive during the probate .

He said the executors had to create three trusts, one in his kids name, the second in his mother's name and one in charities name.

After the probate is over the profits are distributed as 40% , 40% and 20% and deposited into each trust.

Now regardless of how much profits are generated and how each trust worth:

Out of the 40% deposited into the kids trust, they will be entitled to monthly allowance covering their basic needs, their tuition must be paid college, when they get married they can ask for wedding expenses, they can ask for money to buy a house, they can ask for money to start a business ...etc and eventually they will start to get portions of the estate once they reach 30 .

Out of the 40% deposited in his mother's trust, she can ask for a monthly allowance to cover her basic needs , beside that she has no right to ask for anything else.
The allowance in both cases is determined by the executors and they have the right to reinvest the profits deposited in those trust and help expand the estate and its properties .

So based on the above it is up to Branca and co to determine how much Katherine's allowance will be after the probate ends , and if they choose to stick to what the judge ordered them to pay now, Katherine can do nothing about it.

MJ very much limited her ability to use his money to support other members of the family which speaks volume

the first bolded part..thank you for clearing that up...40% this..that...confusing. Second bolded part..I couldn't agree more...Michael was a VERY smart man...HE KNEW..

 

[twinklEE]

I highly doubt she was fumigated at the estate's request, though she is a pest-
Maybe that's what people do in Colombia but seriously? A respected music executor and a respected lawyer fumigating people? Uhm no.

what the jacksons are doing to michael and his children is disrespectful to mj and his kids. but mjs not here anymore so it doesnt matter does it. the fact some fans will defend anything certain family members do no mater how it disrespects mj just confirms what flag u have pinned your colours to. dont be shocked if you come to a mj board and find mj fans have issues with that. like others said dont like it dont come here. just as mj fans have been pushed out of other supposed mj boards cause they dare to support that man instead of his family and their actions. find somewhere that suits your opinion.

AMEN. A HUGE ROUND OF APPLAUSE FOR THIS POST!!!!

 

[LindavG]

Bouee darling ,

I don't believe MJ mentioned anything related to probate issues in his will beside the clause that stated if any beneficiary objected to his will he/she automatically would be dropped from his will.
the named beneficiaries in a will receive a monthly allowance determined by the probate judge to cover their needs until probate is over, so MJ had no hand in determining how much each would receive during the probate .

He said the executors had to create three trusts, one in his kids name, the second in his mother's name and one in charities name.

After the probate is over the profits are distributed as 40% , 40% and 20% and deposited into each trust.

Now regardless of how much profits are generated and how each trust worth:

Out of the 40% deposited into the kids trust, they will be entitled to monthly allowance covering their basic needs, their tuition must be paid college, when they get married they can ask for wedding expenses, they can ask for money to buy a house, they can ask for money to start a business ...etc and eventually they will start to get portions of the estate once they reach 30 .

Out of the 40% deposited in his mother's trust, she can ask for a monthly allowance to cover her basic needs , beside that she has no right to ask for anything else.
The allowance in both cases is determined by the executors and they have the right to reinvest the profits deposited in those trust and help expand the estate and its properties .

So based on the above it is up to Branca and co to determine how much Katherine's allowance will be after the probate ends , and if they choose to stick to what the judge ordered them to pay now, Katherine can do nothing about it.

MJ very much limited her ability to use his money to support other members of the family which speaks volume

Thanks, I've always wondered how that worked

One general question: what does it mean for the Estate to be in "probate"? I understood it to mean the period in which they are paying off debts, or something? But how does that work? It's been nearly two years already, how long will it take for the Estate to finally be out of probate? And how do they pay off the debts, did they sell any of MJ's properties? Sorry if it's a stupid question lol, but English is not my native tongue and I'm not familiar with these legal terms and procedures.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

That's true. Michael's wishes should be respected, and Michael clearly stated in his will that he wanted his money to be divided among his mother, his children, and charities. He has supported his family financially for decades, now it is time for them to stand on their own two feet. Michael is not "obliged" to take care of anyone save his own children, the fact that he did for such a long time is a testament to his generous nature. I just really don't understand how Jermaine can be travelling around the world right now yet leave his dead brother to pay for his ex and children because he claims not to have enough money for child support. That's just indefensible.

exactly. whay cant mjs bros look after their own kids? they arent disabled. its not like they cant work etc. what the reason other than being deadbeats who dumped their kids on their mother and knew the bills would be paid cause mj was the one paying. its sheer laziness and nothing more.there is no excuse for it. i want one jackson fmaily fan to give me a reason why they should not be paying for their own kids.

Oh stop it..Katherine was truthful in that interview and that is all.

whether it was the truth is irrelvent. the question is what sort of mother would say that about her child on t.v? heard the saying a face only a mother could love. u know u love and protect your child and even if things are said privatley they are things that would never be said publicly let alone on national t.v because you dont want to hurt you child. .would she had said it if mj was still here. knowing how hurt he would have been hearing something like that said. once again the indefensible is defended.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

One general question: what does it mean for the Estate to be in "probate"? I understood it to mean the period in which they are paying off debts, or something? But how does that work? It's been nearly two years already, how long will it take for the Estate to finally be out of probate? And how do they pay off the debts, did they sell any of MJ's properties? Sorry if it's a stupid question lol, but English is not m

i presume it will be in probate till all the lawsuits are sorted and they know what money they have. i dont think the debts come into it as the estate knows what its paying and has deals over x amount of years might be wrong though

 

[xthunderx2]

exactly. whay cant mjs bros look after their own kids? they arent disabled. its not like they cant work etc. what the reason other than being deadbeats who dumped their kids on their mother and knew the bills would be paid cause mj was the one paying. its sheer laziness and nothing more.there is no excuse for it. i want one jackson fmaily fan to give me a reason why they should not be paying for their own kids.


whether it was the truth is irrelvent. the question is what sort of mother would say that about her child on t.v? heard the saying a face only a mother could love. u know u love and protect your child and even if things are said privatley they are things that would never be said publicly let alone on national t.v because you dont want to hurt you child. .would she had said it if mj was still here. knowing how hurt he would have been hearing something like that said. once again the indefensible is defended.

exactly...ESPECIALLY about her child that has passed away and is STILL footing the bill for her ass to be sitting in that fine house and driving that fine car as she does. Talk about disrespect....that is disrespect to its fullest.

 

[Soundmind]

the kids are the real victims , I wonder how they must feel about the situation.

they feel entitled to everything Prince, Paris and Blanket have.