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Today´s NBC Article: Jackson changed the music industry the way Elvis, Beatles did before him

bee, pedophiles are not interested and attracted to people over 12-13. also, they dont stick to one kid but tons of them. 14 year olds look like 18 and are usually mistaken for adults. elvis was NOT a pedophile. yes he broke the law as he was dating someone under 18 and no he wasn't a child molester. the law was made by humans and its not always right. in fact i dont agree with many laws. i like the japan laws better because they separate children from teenagers and an adult who has sex with a 17 year old wont be called a pedophile and wont be treated as pedos are.
sometimes hatred close our eyes and dont let us see things the right way. thats what i believe. i understand that u dont like elvis and thats fair enough. u got every right to not like whomever u want. but that certainly doesnt give u the right to call him sth that hes not. :flowers: if we realized for one moment how "fragile" this life is i dont think we'd have time to hate on anybody. we'd focus on how to make this world a better place for everyone. but i guess we were doomed from the sec we were born to live this way didnt we? anyways thats another subject :)
 
<<<<<<<bee, pedophiles are not interested and attracted to people over 12-13. also, they dont stick to one kid but tons of them. 14 year olds look like 18 and are usually mistaken for adults. elvis was NOT a pedophile. yes he broke the law as he was dating someone under 18 and no he wasn't a child molester. the law was made by humans and its not always right.>>>>>>>> If this is the case, then these school teachers who slept with their students need to be let go and not labled. Look at the teacher who had two babies by a 14 year old, served time and now they are married. She is still labled a "pedophile" in eyes of society and the law. That is what Bee is talking about.
 
Well in AMERICA, it is viewed as WRONG and Elvis was an AMerican and did it on AMERICAn soil (not Japan). You must respect the law of the land where you live or go.
 
Again, the point of all of this is that Elvis did mess that was PROVEd and no ones continues to bring it up and degrade him whereas Michael did NOT do anything and continues to have lies, speculations, and rumors brought up about him everytime the media talk about him (Mike even get called out of his name by calling him a freak an w*** j****o)
 
maybe i didnt make myself clear enough. there should be laws that dont allow adults to have sex with ppl from 14 to 17 years olds but the punishment should be way less strict and the offenders should not be labeled as "pedos" cause they are not.
 
so many laws, punishments, labels, etc etc and the society is totally messed up. so are the laws and the punishments the solution to everything? i wouldnt think so. so what if the law says that the age of consent is 18 ? there are teens who have sex and get pregnant everyday. their lives get ruined. how the "law" helped them ? maybe we, as people, dont care enough after all
 
I just think we should have the same strict standards for other people that we have for Michael - unless people came forward and accused them, unless charges were brought and they were found guilty in a court, we shouldn't be calling them names. Period. Otherwise we would be hypocrites accusing the media of being hypocrites! Surely we should know better no matter how angry we are? We all know Michael has been and is treated unfairly and this can be pointed out, debated and argued over without becoming nasty. In fact, you won't win any support with angry accusations, you will just distract people from what you're really trying to say. It's better to make a pro-MJ argument, not an anti-Elvis (or whomever) one.
 
Raylo said:
I just think we should have the same strict standards for other people that we have for Michael - unless people came forward and accused them, unless charges were brought and they were found guilty in a court, we shouldn't be calling them names. Period. Otherwise we would be hypocrites accusing the media of being hypocrites! Surely we should know better no matter how angry we are? We all know Michael has been and is treated unfairly and this can be pointed out, debated and argued over without becoming nasty. In fact, you won't win any support with angry accusations, you will just distract people from what you're really trying to say. It's better to make a pro-MJ argument, not an anti-Elvis (or whomever) one.
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i hear what ur saying. nobodys more bitter and pissed than me about whats happened to michael. but that doesnt mean i will find peace inside me by calling ppl "pedos" or whatever since they couldnt be any more far from being that. am i angry at the media ? yeah sure.
its their fault that michaels name has been tarnished. nobody elses.
attack the source (media) not the source's idol (elvis)

edit: also there is no crime with no victims. yes priscilla was a minor but she was not a victim. so no crime there. at least according to "my law"
 
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Nobody is attacking the sources idol. It is not an attack if you state FACT. Elvis DID date Precilla when she was only 14. it was illegal. His cousin, another rock star married a 13 year old and got in trouble with the law, but he came back and nobody calls him out of his name. What we are asking for is parity. If they can talk about Elvis without talking about his drug addiction, his child neglect and his association with an underage girl, then they should be able to talk about MJ's achievements without talking about rumours and lies. We can prove Elvis did what he did, there is no proof that MJ did what he was accused of. WE need to point out the unfairness in the media. We will drop it when they do.
 
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Datsymay said:
Nobody is attacking the sources idol. It is not an attack if you state FACT. Elvis DID date Precilla when she was only 14. it was illegal. His cousin, another rock star married a 13 year old and got in trouble with the law, but he came back and nobody calls him out of his name. What we are asking for is parity. If they can talk about Elvis without talking about his drug addiction, his child neglect and his association with an underage girl, then they should be able to talk about MJ's achievements without talking about rumours and lies. We can prove Elvis did what he did, there is no proof that MJ did what he was accused of. WE need to point out the unfairness in the media. We will drop it when they do.
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nobodys arguing with the things u said datsy. the media are f*cked up and nobody can deny that
 
Roxanne said:
nobodys arguing with the things u said datsy. the media are f*cked up and nobody can deny that
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I know roxanne. The media is desparate. They build Elvis up and put Michael down that is the strategy. that is why MJ fans are angry. Nobody wants to attack Elvis, but if Elvis fans are pulling punches, then MJ fans are going to pull punches too. They need to stop and play fair.
 
Datsymay said:
I know roxanne. The media is desparate. They build Elvis up and put Michael down that is the strategy. that is why MJ fans are angry. Nobody wants to attack Elvis, but if Elvis fans are pulling punches, then MJ fans are going to pull punches too. They need to stop and play fair.
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ExAactly. ANd this is the same with Britney Spears now. I do not see anyone calling her a "freak" or out of her name in the title when she is spoken about like they do Michael. That is why I say it is bias and racist. Why do they want to call the black person out of his name and NOT the white girl who is doing more drama that is PROVEN. Yes, Michael may have light skin but the media knows he is BLACK.
 
wow what a disgusting discussion. there can be 2 king´s mj and elvis. and saying Elvis is a pedo is below everything. don´t belive everything you hear and read. Mj fans should know that more than anyone!
 
As usual, Terrell and Dats: on point as usual.

I am not going to respond to anything Roxanne posts because she implied that I am a "racist" on some thread on this forum. I decided to put her on ignore so that I do not have to read her ignorance. So, Dats and Terell, you guys can deal with her.

The media, when they talk about the white superstars, they never mentioned their past problems are call them names. Even though I feel bad for Britney Spears, it is practically proven that she has issues. Yet, MJ is called the "crazy one". Why? Debbie Rowe left her children for exchange for money but who is being questioned for his parenting skills? MJ. Jermaine was called a "dead beat" parent so why isn't Debbie called that? Get my drift? I am not trying to start anything, I am stating the obvious facts. There is no proof that MJ is a pedophile. Not one ounce, but he is still being reminded of it, people still talk about it, people state that they would not let their children listen to MJ (that really angers me) and people are still convinced that MJ did "something". However, where is that same treatment regarding Elvis? Why didn't anyone call him the pedo? It was proven by Priscilla, in her book called "Elvis and Me" that she performed a sexual act towards her when she was a teenager and he was an adult. That makes Elvis a pedophile. I mean, that is basically what a pedophile is: an adult who molests or have sex with children or minors. There is no law, that I know of, in the USA that states that 14 years old is considered and adult.

The media will never truly tell the public Michael true achivements. How much money he really has. Why? Because they are not going to waste their time on that. They want to make an example of him. I remember when MTV did a special on MJ during the trial and the singer Omarion stated that he does not want to be as big as Michael Jackson because he does not want all of that happened to MJ to happen to him. (Regarding the hatred and disrespect). Why do you think he stated that? I think he stated that because the media wanted to make an example of MJ, telling the young, black, superstars of today that if they think they are going to step on some toes and run things, they have another thing coming. MJ did what he wanted to do. He did the damn thing. He befriened those people, he got the catalogue, he married the "King's" daughter. He did things that angered the media. The white media were pissed that MJ even went there, some of the black media were pissed that he did not marry a woman of color. The media trashed him for it. Look what we noticed from the trial, all sorts of media trashing him. It seems like everyone in the media truly hate this man. Is Britney getting this treatment? No. Is Elvis getting this treatment? No. Is anyone of a certain race getting the exact same treatment as MJ recieved? No. Why? Because MJ did things that the media did not want him to do. Ask yourselves, why the media never question what Lisa Marie said about MJ or why Debbie is not called out? Why do the media tell the public lies about MJ instead of the truth? I said something that I now regret saying. After reading this thread and really thinking about a lot of things, I changed my mind abouts omething. I said that if MJ wants the media to change their opinion about him, he has to tell the media the deal. Then, I really thought about that and I really believe that MJ should just do what he has always done. The media knows the truth about him, they just will not tell the public because that is not how they want MJ to be portrayed. If people want to know the truth, they need to find it out for themselves. The media are a bunch or losers that have nothing better to do then hate on people that are better than them.
 
Datsymay said:
Nobody is attacking the sources idol. It is not an attack if you state FACT. Elvis DID date Precilla when she was only 14. it was illegal. His cousin, another rock star married a 13 year old and got in trouble with the law, but he came back and nobody calls him out of his name. What we are asking for is parity. If they can talk about Elvis without talking about his drug addiction, his child neglect and his association with an underage girl, then they should be able to talk about MJ's achievements without talking about rumours and lies. We can prove Elvis did what he did, there is no proof that MJ did what he was accused of. WE need to point out the unfairness in the media. We will drop it when they do.
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I assume you're talking about Jerry Lee Lewis. He's not Elvis' cousin. Jerry Lee married his (Jerry's) 13 year old cousin. He got in trouble mainly because it was considered incest, the age was secondary.
 
Bee said:
As usual, Terrell and Dats: on point as usual.

I am not going to respond to anything Roxanne posts because she implied that I am a "racist" on some thread on this forum. I decided to put her on ignore so that I do not have to read her ignorance. So, Dats and Terell, you guys can deal with her.

The media, when they talk about the white superstars, they never mentioned their past problems are call them names. Even though I feel bad for Britney Spears, it is practically proven that she has issues. Yet, MJ is called the "crazy one". Why? Debbie Rowe left her children for exchange for money but who is being questioned for his parenting skills? MJ. Jermaine was called a "dead beat" parent so why isn't Debbie called that? Get my drift? I am not trying to start anything, I am stating the obvious facts. There is no proof that MJ is a pedophile. Not one ounce, but he is still being reminded of it, people still talk about it, people state that they would not let their children listen to MJ (that really angers me) and people are still convinced that MJ did "something". However, where is that same treatment regarding Elvis? Why didn't anyone call him the pedo? It was proven by Priscilla, in her book called "Elvis and Me" that she performed a sexual act towards her when she was a teenager and he was an adult. That makes Elvis a pedophile. I mean, that is basically what a pedophile is: an adult who molests or have sex with children or minors. There is no law, that I know of, in the USA that states that 14 years old is considered and adult.

The media will never truly tell the public Michael true achivements. How much money he really has. Why? Because they are not going to waste their time on that. They want to make an example of him. I remember when MTV did a special on MJ during the trial and the singer Omarion stated that he does not want to be as big as Michael Jackson because he does not want all of that happened to MJ to happen to him. (Regarding the hatred and disrespect). Why do you think he stated that? I think he stated that because the media wanted to make an example of MJ, telling the young, black, superstars of today that if they think they are going to step on some toes and run things, they have another thing coming. MJ did what he wanted to do. He did the damn thing. He befriened those people, he got the catalogue, he married the "King's" daughter. He did things that angered the media. The white media were pissed that MJ even went there, some of the black media were pissed that he did not marry a woman of color. The media trashed him for it. Look what we noticed from the trial, all sorts of media trashing him. It seems like everyone in the media truly hate this man. Is Britney getting this treatment? No. Is Elvis getting this treatment? No. Is anyone of a certain race getting the exact same treatment as MJ recieved? No. Why? Because MJ did things that the media did not want him to do. Ask yourselves, why the media never question what Lisa Marie said about MJ or why Debbie is not called out? Why do the media tell the public lies about MJ instead of the truth? I said something that I now regret saying. After reading this thread and really thinking about a lot of things, I changed my mind abouts omething. I said that if MJ wants the media to change their opinion about him, he has to tell the media the deal. Then, I really thought about that and I really believe that MJ should just do what he has always done. The media knows the truth about him, they just will not tell the public because that is not how they want MJ to be portrayed. If people want to know the truth, they need to find it out for themselves. The media are a bunch or losers that have nothing better to do then hate on people that are better than them.
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[FONT=&quot]I understand what you’re saying and I certainly think race factors into the whole thing, but as you yourself said it’s not just the white media who’s been hard on MJ. I have often seen fans responding to negative articles on MJ with accusations of racism only to be told that the author is black. I don’t think hasty claims of racism should just be thrown around whenever someone disrespects Michael – as if that’s the only reason people have for hating him when there is actually quite a number of things about MJ or things that have happened to him that make people uncomfortable (right or wrong as that may be). Not every bad thing everyone says about Michael has racism or a white person at the root of it and not all white people have had everything handed to them on “silver platters” either. That might not be what posters were trying to say in this thread, but that’s sometimes how it reads.

I also don’t think that people like Debbie Rowe or Britney Spears have had free passes with the media. I have read some nasty things about Debbie (who isn’t even a public figure) and Britney has definitely been protrayed as crazy. Her name never comes up without people joking about her to the point where I have heard people say that she should just die. Even when it became clear that she needed real help (and wasn’t just acting eccentric for the sake of publicity), the media kept acting like she’s a big joke and not a person in trouble. If that is not dehumanization, I don’t know what is. As for Elvis: he wasn’t convicted of crime, isn’t here to defend himself and we never normally pay attention to anything Priscilla has to say! :)[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] In any case, we don’t have anything invested in those people so what happens to them might not seem as bad to us (I’m sure Britney’s fans think she’s getting the worse treatment ever).

Basically, I think the media is hard on most people, depending on how much ammunition they can get on that person. In Michael’s case there’s a lot of ammunition that has accumulated over a long time and as I said, race factors in too, but it’s just one factor and it’s not the first thing that comes to mind when people think of Michael. People now say things about him without even thinking about it because it's normal, because everyone does it. It doesn't mean there is always a racist design in it.[/FONT]
 
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Most of the amunition that was thrown at Michael wqwere creatred by the medias. When they have nothing they make them up. Michael didn't come from the best example of what a citizen should be to the worst example over night. The President Reagan praised MJ on the steps opf the White House for good behaviour, so where did this amunition come from How is it any worse that what Elvis has or what the beatles has done?

The point is that they cannot speak about MJ's achievements without pouring cold water on it by refering to personal issues which they themselves have speculated on anyway. They do not do that for Elvis or the beatles. It is blatant racism. If they get reminded of the others misdemeanor then maybe they may stop. We have let them off the hook for too long.
 
Datsymay said:
Most of the amunition that was thrown at Michael wqwere creatred by the medias. When they have nothing they make them up. Michael didn't come from the best example of what a citizen should be to the worst example over night. The President Reagan praised MJ on the steps opf the White House for good behaviour, so where did this amunition come from How is it any worse that what Elvis has or what the beatles has done?
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I totally agree with you and I've argued with people and journalists about this for years and years. But there is a person behind every article we read and we can't just accuse him/her of racism when we know nothing about that person or what really motivates their writing. There is more than one possible reason for someone to dislike Michael. For the most part, journalists who are open to persuasion about MJ are more easily moved by a good argument than by accusations. Those who aren't open to persuasion are not even worth it because they're just out to stir s**t.

As for Elvis, if you really don't see why it's not ok to call someone a pedo when he's never been convicted, can't defend himself etc etc then there isn't really anything left to say on my part except that I think it's wrong to do to others what people are doing to Michael. That's one thing I've taken from being a fan.

:flowers:Raylo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su91TBGInAw
 
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Raylo said:
I totally agree with you and I've argued with people and journalists about this for years and years. But there is a person behind every article we read and we can't just accuse him/her of racism when we know nothing about that person or what really motivates their writing. There is more than one possible reason for someone to dislike Michael. For the most part, journalists who are open to persuasion about MJ are more easily moved by a good argument than by accusations. Those who aren't open to persuasion are not even worth it because they're just out to stir s**t.

As for Elvis, if you really don't see why it's not ok to call someone a pedo when he's never been convicted, can't defend himself etc etc then there isn't really anything left to say on my part except that I think it's wrong to do to others what people are doing to Michael. That's one thing I've taken from being a fan.

:flowers:Raylo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su91TBGInAw
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The difference between Elvis and MJ is that there is verifiable evidence. it is common knowledge, it is not an accusation, it is fact. MJ wasn't convicted of anything either. All we are doing is showing the prejudice that exist here and the unfairness. You cannot show unfairness without presenting example. The Elvis situation is real, MJ's was just fantasy, proven false by the courts.
 
We're just going around in circles here. I believe a person is presumed innocent, completely innocent unless proven otherwise in a court. No matter what anyone says, if a crime has not been proven, if the evidence has not been verified in a court, then the crime is not a fact!
 
I just have to say this; the use of the word pedofile should be used with extreme caution. One of the things I have reacted very badly is when people use that word to mock Michael, or to make jokes about the accusations and the trial.
The word should be treated as seriously as the situations are for the victims of abuse. And by calling Elvis a "pedo", and comparing that to what this realy is about is offending to me. Yes, he sertainly was not a saint, and he was drugged out of his mind, and died a very horrible death.
And he as well as many other artists did not lead a normal or healthy life, and was not a very good role model for anyone.

But for the respect of the victims of sexual abuse, I feel that the word pedofile and all that is associated with it should not be used lightly. There are people living with the wounds of abuse who would feel very uncomfortable with this kind of discussions, as it is indeed a very serious accusation.
 
Datsymay said:
MJ getting presidential treatment in Poland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNeUFnudWr8&feature=related
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where have you got it from, Dats???
I have the similiar mix on my old VHS... I recorded everything


sweet memories.... May, 26-27 (as far as I remember)1997 just before his second part of the European HIStory tour.....


all the plans of investing in Poland fell through:( :no:
but I do hope Michael still has some warm feelings in his heart about my country.... I really do
 
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