TII, was the preperation rushed.

[Gottobethere]

Okay first off i just want to say i got TII last weekend and loved it, it looked like it was going to be amazing but when ever the dates appeared on the screen they just didn't add up. The concert was announced at the start of March, giving them 4 months to put it together which i would think is not very long considering the scale of the production. I would have thought they would have got working on it straight away but it took over a month for the dancer auditions to start. Then there is the part with the team sitting in a room looking at a computer screen trying to come up with an idea for Michaels entrance, this is dated May 29, which is a little over a month before opening night. There is also the fact that there is no footage of him rehearsing many of the songs that were going to feature, with a little over two weeks left i would have assumed everything would have been over rehearsed at this stage. I don't know much about concert production but i just thought it was being rushed, like they hadn't thought it out properly before announcing the dates and September would have been a more realistic opening date. In saying all this i do think they would have pulled it off by the 14th but they would have been under serious pressure for the last two weeks which should be spent relaxing getting mentally ready for the shows knowing all the hard work is done.

 

[MattyJam]

I definately know what you mean. They hadn't even done a single full dress rehearsal and it was only two weeks off. They hadn't worked out how they were going to encorporate the Dome Project sequences into the shows, they didn't have his entrance or the MJ Air ending finished...

 

[DJ Spins the sounds]

I definately know what you mean. They hadn't even done a single full dress rehearsal and it was only two weeks off. They hadn't worked out how they were going to encorporate the Dome Project sequences into the shows, they didn't have his entrance or the MJ Air ending finished...

I've just watched Blu-ray version, and to me both lightman and MJ air were pretty much finished, only needed final touches which were going to be finished in the final days before they jetted off to London.

 

[Gottobethere]

I definately know what you mean. They hadn't even done a single full dress rehearsal and it was only two weeks off. They hadn't worked out how they were going to encorporate the Dome Project sequences into the shows, they didn't have his entrance or the MJ Air ending finished...

We always hear how much of a perfectionist Michael was and how he over rehearsed things to get them perfect, why was this not the case here? Maybe he wasn't being given the time he needed. As i said already i loved the movie and i want to just accept it was going to be the best concert ever and i think most casual observers will accept that but it just didn't add up for me. I also wonder why we see him very little in the extras. If the cameras were running the whole time then show us more Michael that is what we want to see.

 

[bobmoo79]

I believe it's true that Mike wasn't at rehearsals often. All of the rehearsal clips used in the film are from the same few days. IF Mike was there a lot, they would have had much more footage to use and they would have used it in the film.

The cameras were rolling all the time, and they have loads of footage of the dancers, and band rehearsing but very little of Mike. There are a few tell tale signs in the film that this is the case. When Orianthi is talking she makes a comment of WHEN Mike is here, which suggested to me he wasn't there often. Also, when the keyboard player and Mike are discussing the sound check during (TWYMMF), the keyboard player seems to be frustrated that Mike isn't always there for sound check. He says something like "That's why we need you here". As I said, he sounds frustrated by a lack of support from Mike.

We know Mike visited Arnie Klein ALOT between March and June and often stayed for hours. Sometimes when he left, he appeared a bit 'out of it'. I'm not going to speculate why that was, but the fact we KNOW he was there for hours shows that he wasn't at rehearsal.

 

[MattyJam]

We know Mike visited Arnie Klein ALOT between March and June and often stayed for hours. Sometimes when he left, he appeared a bit 'out of it'. I'm not going to speculate why that was, but the fact we KNOW he was there for hours shows that he wasn't at rehearsal.

This bothers me. You have some fans going apeshit at AEG, Randy Phillips, Kenny Ortega... but what about Klein? I feel very uneasy about that man.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

yeah it did seem rushed when u see the footage. but we have only seen a small amount (the footage)

 

[gerryevans]

It was rushed because the plans were often altered and expanded. Just remember, TII was initially budgeted for between $7-$12 million, and ballooned into $30 million.

In the extras about the making of Smooth Criminal, you got an inkling of the kind of problems they ran into. They spent hours upon hours looking at film footage, might find something, and then couldn't get copy right clearance. And they'd have to start looking at another 20 films to get what they needed.

In seeing what they were trying to accomplish, you clearly understand why the stress levels were extremely high for everyone with their working timeframe.

But all in all, this team was doing a phenomenal job in pulling all the elements together, even rushed.

I loved that shot of MJ with his mouth agape just looking at how his vision was being materialized.

Hope they give us more footage.

 

[Annie123]

I'm not sure it it was rushed so much as it changed to a much bigger production, as gerryevans says, and there were a lot of challenges in fulfilling the creative vision within the budget.

I don't have any idea how long it normally takes to develop a big stadium-type concert production so it is all just perceptions on my part. It felt like the production still hadn't come together but maybe that is normal.

 

[eStyle]

Very interesting discussion here, people!
But I too don't know much of these type of things, so I can't say much, tho' it seems a lil' rushed to me, either!

 

[Gottobethere]

I read somewhere that Michael would usually spend six months getting ready for a tour which would sound right to me and would also allow time for things to go wrong as they inevitable do when undertaking big projects. The push back of the opening night would also indicate that they were running behind schedule. I really want to enjoy the movie and extra's and i am but it just feels like we are not seeing the full story.

 

[Sophielo]

Phillips mentions in one of the extras that everything had been pretty much finished. They were due to send all the stage and props off to London a couple days later, with everyone jetting off to the UK a couple days after that. Dress rehersals were to then be at the o2 with opening on the 13th.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

I believe it's true that Mike wasn't at rehearsals often. All of the rehearsal clips used in the film are from the same few days. IF Mike was there a lot, they would have had much more footage to use and they would have used it in the film.

No they wouldn't have, because they don't profit off of that, they can show you so much of the dancers and production staff because they know nobody cares about them. Naysayers and fans alike only care about seeing Michael, not who made it on his dance team or who was in charge of the pyrotechnics. I personally, believe that Kenny wasn't lying when he said there's over 100 hours of footage from rehearsals, I just know that they won't release it until they are in some type of drastic financial funk.

 

[michaels wendy bird]

In one of the extras Randy says Michael came to him in September 2008 saying yes i am ready etc etc why did they not start rehearsing from then?? That confuses me!!

 

[Jabz]

Because you would have to organise it. It was a whole process, they'd have to pick a band, dancers, deal with legal shit, promotion. Rehearsal never would've started from then, however, it could have probably started earlier in 2009.

 

[bobmoo79]

Because you would have to organise it. It was a whole process, they'd have to pick a band, dancers, deal with legal shit, promotion. Rehearsal never would've started from then, however, it could have probably started earlier in 2009.

They picked the band and dancers AFTER the March announcement. I wonder what was going on between September 03 and March 09. Perhaps it was contractual negotiations between AEG and MJ. IF Mike approached AEG as Randy says then surely that undermines MJ's position slightly. He wouldn't be able to drive such a hard bargain as if it was AEG who contacted him to pulll him out of retirement.

 

[gerryevans]

^^^^
I'm sure lawyers contributed to some of the delay. I swear when you've got them coming into the process from both sides, the process is going to be prolonged.

OT...our company was renting out some of its office space. The people that were acquiring the space were ready to sign on the dotted line immediately. By the time their lawyers and our lawyers and the building lawyers got finished, it was 5 months before even the renovations began for them to move in.

But back to Michael's situation...it may have been a matter of clearing the dates. I don't know, but was the 02 booked in the September-March period? Also, while they may have hired the dancers and band, etc. after the announcement, gathering the production team may have begun earlier.

A lot of factors could have come into play from the time of MJ's verbal readiness to the announcement.

ETA: Plus, it would not have been just Michael signing a contract. All the major players like Oretga and Payne would have had contracts too, and their legal representatives would have been going back and forth on their deals.

 

[Gottobethere]

^^^^
I'm sure lawyers contributed to some of the delay. I swear when you've got them coming into the process from both sides, the process is going to be prolonged.

OT...our company was renting out some of its office space. The people that were acquiring the space were ready to sign on the dotted line immediately. By the time their lawyers and our lawyers and the building lawyers got finished, it was 5 months before even the renovations began for them to move in.

But back to Michael's situation...it may have been a matter of clearing the dates. I don't know, but was the 02 booked in the September-March period? Also, while they may have hired the dancers and band, etc. after the announcement, gathering the production team may have begun earlier.

A lot of factors could have come into play from the time of MJ's verbal readiness to the announcement.

ETA: Plus, it would not have been just Michael signing a contract. All the major players like Oretga and Payne would have had contracts too, and their legal representatives would have been going back and forth on their deals.

This is all true but the concerts were announced in march, all the contracts would have to be signed before this, giving them only four months to get things ready, it seems nothing was done in the next month .

 

[snorlaaax]

Yes, I think a lot of things were rushed. I mean, they even needed to postpone and push back the dates, because otherwise they wouldn't be able to finish the whole thing on time.

I remember getting the news and becoming so pissed (back then, not pissed anymore just to make clear). I already said back then, that they started things way too late. Like the audition for the dancers, that just started too late especially because they had several call backs auditions. The auditions didn't just take place in one day.

I still stand by my point that when they were making the announcements Michael was going to perform again, they already should have picked the dancers, already should have had sketches and designs of the costumes and should had figured out who was going to perform at the O2 before Michael would and how much time they would have left to set up the stage.

They knew it was going to be a big event, Michael does not think in ''small'', he always thinks big and they could have known that from the beginning that they needed more time.

And like someone else mentioned, Michael was visiting Arnie Klein a lot. He would stay in there for hours and besides that, Michael was often see shopping while imo he needed to be at rehearsal.

Reportedly Michael didn't even rehearse with the band and the dancers the first weeks, but was watching his old tours and archives to come up with more ideas for TII. They should have done this, before the announcements. I read somewhere that Michael signed the AEG contract back in January 2009, that was two months before the press conference. They could have done so many things by then, but by 20th May the video elements and costumes were still not finished.

Apparently they had most problems with finishing the 3D video elements of the tour and dress rehearsals. The announcement of reschuduling the concerts were made on 20th May, but if we look at the movie where some of the footage is from 23th June, I still see a lot things that weren't finished. Like the costumes, I only saw Mike wearing a few pieces that were finished, but no complete outfits.

And for Randy to claim that everything was finished and that they were going to do the final dress rehearsals in London, is just ridiculous. I am sorry, but the costumes Zaldy designed were not practical at all. How was Michael going to dance in a 10 pound heavy jacket? What if they would find out that Michael wasn't going to be able to move and dance in the costumes Zaldy had designed for him when they were already in London? What were they going to do then, buy him another jacket at Primark?:mello:

A lot of things def. needed to be rushed and looking at the movie and reading all of the information we got, I honestly don't even believe that they were going to finish a lot of the things they wanted to use for the concerts on time for opening night on 13th July...



EDIT: But don't get me wrong. I think everything would have worked out magical, even if he would have left out some of the elements he wanted to use. I loved the movie! And I do not ''blame'' Michael alone on this (but I also do not claim he wasn't completely ''innocent'', as he was responsible as well), but I ''blame'' the whole team.

 

[Gottobethere]

Yes, I think a lot of things were rushed. I mean, they even needed to postpone and push back the dates, because otherwise they wouldn't be able to finish the whole thing on time.

I remember getting the news and becoming so pissed (back then, not pissed anymore just to make clear). I already said back then, that they started things way too late. Like the audition for the dancers, that just started too late especially because they had several call backs auditions. The auditions didn't just take place in one day.

I still stand by my point that when they were making the announcements Michael was going to perform again, they already should have picked the dancers, already should have had sketches and designs of the costumes and should had figured out who was going to perform at the O2 before Michael would and how much time they would have left to set up the stage.

They knew it was going to be a big event, Michael does not think in ''small'', he always thinks big and they could have known that from the beginning that they needed more time.

And like someone else mentioned, Michael was visiting Arnie Klein a lot. He would stay in there for hours and besides that, Michael was often see shopping while imo he needed to be at rehearsal.

Reportedly Michael didn't even rehearse with the band and the dancers the first weeks, but was watching his old tours and archives to come up with more ideas for TII. They should have done this, before the announcements. I read somewhere that Michael signed the AEG contract back in January 2009, that was two months before the press conference. They could have done so many things by then, but by 20th May the video elements and costumes were still not finished.

Apparently they had most problems with finishing the 3D video elements of the tour and dress rehearsals. The announcement of reschuduling the concerts were made on 20th May, but if we look at the movie where some of the footage is from 23th June, I still see a lot things that weren't finished. Like the costumes, I only saw Mike wearing a few pieces that were finished, but no complete outfits.

And for Randy to claim that everything was finished and that they were going to do the final dress rehearsals in London, is just ridiculous. I am sorry, but the costumes Zaldy designed were not practical at all. How was Michael going to dance in a 10 pound heavy jacket? What if they would find out that Michael wasn't going to be able to move and dance in the costumes Zaldy had designed for him when they were already in London? What were they going to do then, buy him another jacket at Primark?:mello:

A lot of things def. needed to be rushed and looking at the movie and reading all of the information we got, I honestly don't even believe that they were going to finish a lot of the things they wanted to use for the concerts on time for opening night on 13th July...



EDIT: But don't get me wrong. I think everything would have worked out magical, even if he would have left out some of the elements he wanted to use. I loved the movie! And I do not ''blame'' Michael alone on this (but I also do not claim he wasn't completely ''innocent'', as he was responsible as well), but I ''blame'' the whole team.

Very good post, you had tickets for the first night,class. I wanted to swap tickets to two nights in return for tickets to the opening night.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

This is all true but the concerts were announced in march, all the contracts would have to be signed before this, giving them only four months to get things ready, it seems nothing was done in the next month .

i think mj agreed/signed contracts around november 08. i guess the contract has a date on it. if anyone has it saved and can post it

Zaldy designed were not practical at all. How was Michael going to dance in a 10 pound heavy jacket? What if they would find out that Michael wasn't going to be able to move and dance in the costumes Zaldy had designed for him when they were already in London? What were they going to do then, buy him another jacket at Primark?:mello:

according to michael bush zaldys clothes werent even going to be used in the shows

at the movie where some of the footage is from 23th June, I still see a lot things that weren't finished. Like the costumes, I only saw Mike wearing a few pieces that were finished, but no complete outfits.

they said dress rehearsals were gonna take place in london

IF Mike approached AEG as Randy says then surely that undermines MJ's position slightly. He wouldn't be able to drive such a hard bargain as if it was AEG who contacted him to pulll him out of retirement.

AEG had been contacting mj for the previous 2 years trying to get him to agree to do the concerts. mj turned then down saying he wasnt ready.if randy now claims it was mj who contacted them then thats the biggest joke going.

I loved the movie! And I do not ''blame'' Michael alone on this (but I also do not claim he wasn't completely ''innocent'', as he was responsible as well), but I ''blame'' the whole team.

blame for what? did the concerts happen and opening night was a mess? did i miss something.

 

[gerryevans]

This is all true but the concerts were announced in march, all the contracts would have to be signed before this, giving them only four months to get things ready, it seems nothing was done in the next month .

Oh, I totally agree, preparations became rushed (because the production grew immensely ). I was responding to the poster who was wondering what was happening between September '08 and March '09.

 

[snorlaaax]

Very good post, you had tickets for the first night,class. I wanted to swap tickets to two nights in return for tickets to the opening night.

I wasn't even aiming to go to opening night, I just wanted to go to the concert lol. It was however the first date I tried, but as soon as tm started to ''crash'', I panicked and just randomly clicked on every date that was on the list. I wasn't even paying attention anymore and it wasn't after I got my confirmation mail that I realized that I had tickets for opening night lol. I went nuts *in the positive way*. I got some crazy bids, I even got offered A1 ticket swaps for my BK 416 opening night ticket.

they said dress rehearsals were gonna take place in london

Well, that comes across to me, that they would do dress rehearsals in London because they didn't had time enough to finish everything back in Los Angeles. I don't really know about the whole Zaldy/bush feud. I know that there are rumors that MJ didn't want to work with Zaldy, but there are however pictures of him trying on Zaldy's clothes and since Zaldy is on the DVD talking about the costumes I do think that his clothes were eventually going to be used for the tour.

What I was trying to say, was that they eventually postponed the concerts in May because they needed more times for the dress rehearsals. But by 25th June still not all of the costumes were finished. Zaldy was still working on the Thriller jacket. Looking at his costumes, a lot of it just doesn't seemed to be very practical to move in. What if they would do the dress rehearsal in London and find out that Michael wasn't able to move and dance in that 10 pound heavy BOW jacket. It's too late to do something else then. They already should have finished up the costumes and do a dress rehearsal back in Los Angeles, so that if something wouldn't fit or work on stage they still would have time to adjust it to Michael's liking. But since they needed to rush everything, they didn't had time to do this and were forced to do it in London.

blame for what? did the concerts happen and opening night was a mess? did i miss something.

I was mainly talking about rescheduling the concert, because apparantly they were running behind schedule. I think they needed to rush everything off, and a lot of stuff still seemed to be so unfinished that it makes me wondering if they were going to finish it on time if the concerts had actually happened. Their planning was a mess, they weren't on schedule and what I was trying to say was, that I do not blame Michael alone that they weren't able to do the concerts on time, because a lot of stuff was still not finished. Like lightman, Michael had not even seen the final concept of light man, and to me it looks something that you cannot just practice one time and then do it perfectly.

 

[Gottobethere]

Do any of you think there was a possibility of the opening night being put back again like if it came to the last week and Michael didn't think they were ready. I know a lot of fans were annoyed with the first change, another one might have caused big trouble.

 

[gerryevans]

^^^^
No doubt about it. They would have grumbled. But once they saw the show, I think they would have believed it was well worth the wait.

 

[144000]

Yes, I think a lot of things were rushed. I mean, they even needed to postpone and push back the dates, because otherwise they wouldn't be able to finish the whole thing on time.

I remember getting the news and becoming so pissed (back then, not pissed anymore just to make clear). I already said back then, that they started things way too late. Like the audition for the dancers, that just started too late especially because they had several call backs auditions. The auditions didn't just take place in one day.

I still stand by my point that when they were making the announcements Michael was going to perform again, they already should have picked the dancers, already should have had sketches and designs of the costumes and should had figured out who was going to perform at the O2 before Michael would and how much time they would have left to set up the stage.

They knew it was going to be a big event, Michael does not think in ''small'', he always thinks big and they could have known that from the beginning that they needed more time.

And like someone else mentioned, Michael was visiting Arnie Klein a lot. He would stay in there for hours and besides that, Michael was often see shopping while imo he needed to be at rehearsal.

Reportedly Michael didn't even rehearse with the band and the dancers the first weeks, but was watching his old tours and archives to come up with more ideas for TII. They should have done this, before the announcements. I read somewhere that Michael signed the AEG contract back in January 2009, that was two months before the press conference. They could have done so many things by then, but by 20th May the video elements and costumes were still not finished.

Apparently they had most problems with finishing the 3D video elements of the tour and dress rehearsals. The announcement of reschuduling the concerts were made on 20th May, but if we look at the movie where some of the footage is from 23th June, I still see a lot things that weren't finished. Like the costumes, I only saw Mike wearing a few pieces that were finished, but no complete outfits.

And for Randy to claim that everything was finished and that they were going to do the final dress rehearsals in London, is just ridiculous. I am sorry, but the costumes Zaldy designed were not practical at all. How was Michael going to dance in a 10 pound heavy jacket? What if they would find out that Michael wasn't going to be able to move and dance in the costumes Zaldy had designed for him when they were already in London? What were they going to do then, buy him another jacket at Primark?:mello:

A lot of things def. needed to be rushed and looking at the movie and reading all of the information we got, I honestly don't even believe that they were going to finish a lot of the things they wanted to use for the concerts on time for opening night on 13th July...



EDIT: But don't get me wrong. I think everything would have worked out magical, even if he would have left out some of the elements he wanted to use. I loved the movie! And I do not ''blame'' Michael alone on this (but I also do not claim he wasn't completely ''innocent'', as he was responsible as well), but I ''blame'' the whole team.

i think Michael should have been allowed to shop, or whatever. if we wanted him at his best, he had to be at peace, and at his best. this was art.

i do believe everything was rushed. like he said...let it simmer.

it was like thriller and all his songwriting. the company wanted the album rushed, but he wanted it FINISHED. and that was the important thing. obviously, thriller became what it became, because of that.

i don't blame MJ for anything, here.

it's not about blaming, just for the sake of 'objectivity'. this was art...and art don't want to be told what to do.

yes..the movie is fantastic.

i just think this is one more of those 'u- don't- know -what- u -got- till- it's -gone..and- a -few years- pass -by- and- more- and- more- is- appreciated, type of things.

and that is VERY unfortunate.

i just think that the money that MJ wanted spent, should have been spent, and the time that he wanted taken, should have been taken. and we should have been willing to wait. just as much as, if he didn't want to tour, he shouldn't have to. he gave soo much, to begin with.

 

[Gottobethere]

i think Michael should have been allowed to shop, or whatever. if we wanted him at his best, he had to be at peace, and at his best. this was art.

i do believe everything was rushed. like he said...let it simmer.

it was like thriller and all his songwriting. the company wanted the album rushed, but he wanted it FINISHED. and that was the important thing. obviously, thriller became what it became, because of that.

i don't blame MJ for anything, here.

it's not about blaming, just for the sake of 'objectivity'. this was art...and art don't want to be told what to do.

yes..the movie is fantastic.

i just think this is one more of those 'u- don't- know -what- u -got- till- it's -gone..and- a -few years- pass -by- and- more- and- more- is- appreciated, type of things.

and that is VERY unfortunate.

i just think that the money that MJ wanted spent, should have been spent, and the time that he wanted taken, should have been taken. and we should have been willing to wait. just as much as, if he didn't want to tour, he shouldn't have to. he gave soo much, to begin with.

Do you think then that in march Michael should have told AEG that he will need at least six months to be ready for the concert.

 

[144000]

Do you think then that in march Michael should have told AEG that he will need at least six months to be ready for the concert.

i don't think it mattered. AEG wasn't into patience..and they were into a budget. i don't think they would let Michael breathe, no matter what he asked. the bigger something gets, the more unappreciative outsiders get, and the less they tend to appreciate the process.

most hollywood movies suck, because they believe in a budget and a timetable. only once in a blue moon, one movie might be great, because it got to sneak under the radar and take its time, and spend as much money as was needed.

perhaps, if there were several Michael Jacksons, one of them MIGHT be able to sneak under the radar, and take as much time and spend as much money, as needed. but, there was only one MIchael..and everybody was focused on him.

 

[Gottobethere]

i don't think it mattered. AEG wasn't into patience..and they were into a budget. i don't think they would let Michael breathe, no matter what he asked. the bigger something gets, the more unappreciative outsiders get, and the less they tend to appreciate the process.

Surely if he wanted more time he could have refused to sign the contract until he got it, i don't think AEG can be blamed for everything, they waited 2 years for him to agree to do the concerts they could have waited another two months to see them.

 

[144000]

Surely if he wanted more time he could have refused to sign the contract until he got it, i don't think AEG can be blamed for everything, they waited 2 years for him to agree to do the concerts they could have waited another two months to see them.

aeg turned 10 into 50, without Michael knowing. aeg doesn't come across as on the up and up. contracts aren't respected, any more than the court of law is, these days. and you see how people treated Michael, despite court of law rulings..

money makes people forget respect.

people tend to look at Michael, and see someone who is wishy washy in business, just be looking at him. and they think a company can't possibly be underhanded, just because they are an established big, faceless company...or because they look like a traditional company has tended to look.

and both of those assessments are unfair.