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The Jacksons' relationship with Michael

The brohers didn't contribute with anything when they were in Motown, it was not a secret Michael worked more hours in the studio and were jus called to do the choruses. Their contribution was more prominent when they changed to Epic records, the company allowed them to released their own written material but Michael was the captain being able to make them work as a team. Once he left them for good, they weren't able to come up with anything on their own after 23,000 Jackson St. , they were dragging in the studio for years and some others went solo but they couldn't keep up.
 
barbee0715 said:
Agree. And so is "Moonwalk." Joseph and what he did to get the kids on stage and out of their "go nowhere" lives takes up about half that book.
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I think Moonwalk and other things because through all the muck and drama, they all still love each other no matter what and the good outweighs the bad, plus none of them intend on being overly critical of each other for the most part (although Word To The Badd, Latoya's actions and Jermaine's response to her come to mind lol)
 
Snow White luvs Peter Pan said:
The brohers didn't contribute with anything when they were in Motown, it was not a secret Michael worked more hours in the studio and were jus called to do the choruses. Their contribution was more prominent when they changed to Epic records, the company allowed them to released their own written material but Michael was the captain being able to make them work as a team. Once he left them for good, they weren't able to come up with anything on their own after 23,000 Jackson St. , they were dragging in the studio for years and some others went solo but they couldn't keep up.
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I'm speaking about the tours, being on the road and the whole dynamics as a group along with being in the studio
 
Snow White luvs Peter Pan said:
The brohers didn't contribute with anything when they were in Motown, it was not a secret Michael worked more hours in the studio and were jus called to do the choruses. Their contribution was more prominent when they changed to Epic records, the company allowed them to released their own written material but Michael was the captain being able to make them work as a team. Once he left them for good, they weren't able to come up with anything on their own after 23,000 Jackson St. , they were dragging in the studio for years and some others went solo but they couldn't keep up.
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The brothers' group went nowhere until Michael was lead-singer. They went NOWHERE when he left and became a solo-act. Not really their fault, but only Michael had superstar quality, and they were incredibly LUCKY to have him. Personally, when I watch them perform as group, the back-ups could be pretty much anyone -- Michael was so mesmerizing I can't look anywhere else. Of that family, only Janet comes close to Michael's excellence and success. Nobody else was able to manage a solo career. That's why I have issues with them calling themselves "a dynasty." Two people does not a dynasty make.
 
mj_brainiac said:
I'm speaking about the tours, being on the road and the whole dynamics as a group along with being in the studio
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Autumn II said:
The brothers' group went nowhere until Michael was lead-singer. They went NOWHERE when he left and became a solo-act. Not really their fault, but only Michael had superstar quality, and they were incredibly LUCKY to have him. Personally, when I watch them perform as group, the back-ups could be pretty much anyone -- Michael was so mesmerizing I can't look anywhere else. Of that family, only Janet comes close to Michael's excellence and success. Nobody else was able to manage a solo career. That's why I have issues with them calling themselves "a dynasty." Two people does not a dynasty make.
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I'm going back to the real old days when I very first saw and heard them-Hollywood Palace show-and almost passed out from happiness-Michael's voice was knocking me out and when he looked right at me through the TV I fell under his spell.
But I was also aware of how adorable Marlon was and the closeness with the entire family-all in sync and the togetherness (and thru the years) was obvious.

I didn't really think about Michael having solo albums as really being separate from his brothers-Berry did that with Diana and it was probably just one of his plans to get two for one, so to speak. He was the lead singer, he was the one with the voice, so he should have been making solo recordings. It made perfect sense to me and I was happy that he was making albums-with or without the brothers-although I preferred the Jackson 5 albums.

It wasn't until the Victory Tour that I first saw the brothers as backup singers-and they really were unfortunately backup singers in that show-I'm not sure why-if it was the animosity going on behind the scenes, or they were doing mostly Michael's own adult solo material or what it was-but that was Michael's show alone. It's more than obvious when Michael returns to the stage while Jermaine is singing "Let's Get Serious"-the crowd goes insane.

But I still think the rest of them are talented-no doubt-I remember watching both Marlon and Randy trying to launch their solo careers and they were both pretty darn good-it's just that compared to Michael-they were destined to fail. I know Janet is a great star (and her stats prove that), but IMO she made it only because she was a girl-at the time of her breakthrough, she was a younger, female version of Michael. I don't think she's any more talented than the rest of the Jackson brothers.
 
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Euan said:
I'm quite interested in this. There is alot to read and I'm not to familiar with all the sources and the goings on.

A summary of this would be very very nice.

If anyone has the time or the will, could you PM me or post it here? I know it's a lot and I'm sorry for being so ignorant.

Thanks in advance
Euan
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Here you go.

Michaels's autobiography, Moonwalk, was published in 1988 (republished in October 2009). It was the first time it was mentioned that Joseph was physically abusive, but there wasn't much detail. Michael also wrote about the "Pepsi accident" where he was burned. The book was on the New York Times best-sellers list.

The Jacksons: An American Dream, was a tv movie that came out in 1992. It showed the J-5 growing up and becoming successful. Joseph's beatings were somewhat portrayed, but it seems to many to be a sanitized version of the truth.

Oprah interview, 1993. Widely televised interview, where Michael revealed that he had vitiligo (didn't name it, though, but spoke about why his skin had become lighter due to a medical condition). He also talked about having been beaten by Joseph, and said he "didn't know him."

Glenda tapes. These were (allegedly) tape recorded phone calls between Michael and Glenda Stein, from 1990 to 1992. They have not been authenticated, but of those who have heard them, many think they are authentic. The calls were taped without her or Michael's knowledge by her husband, Sam, and sold in 2005.

Bashir documentary. Martin Bashir filmed a documentary of Michael, called Living with Michael Jackson, that came out in 2003. In the documentary he betrayed Michael through how the piece was edited, to make it seem as though Michael abused children. In the interview Michael gave details of his abuse by his father, and said that as an adult he was so scared of him he would throw up in his presence and have to be supported by his body-guards. It was the Bashir documentary that led to the charges against Michael, and eventual trial where he was acquitted on all counts.

Schmuley Beteach is a rabbi who was for a time Michael's "spiritual adviser." He taped conversations with Michael in 2000 and 2001. They had a falling out in 2002, probably because, IMHO, Schmuley kept a lot of the donations to Michael's Heal the Kids foundation, in the form of an inflated salary, for HIMSELF. He published this material in 2009 after Michael's death. He said "Michael would WANT it published." That's very doubtful, especially since they had had no contact for many years. The tapes contain quite horrific accounts of Michael's father's abuse, in detail.
 
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Autumn II said:
The brothers' group went nowhere until Michael was lead-singer. They went NOWHERE when he left and became a solo-act. Not really their fault, but only Michael had superstar quality, and they were incredibly LUCKY to have him. Personally, when I watch them perform as group, the back-ups could be pretty much anyone -- Michael was so mesmerizing I can't look anywhere else. Of that family, only Janet comes close to Michael's excellence and success. Nobody else was able to manage a solo career. That's why I have issues with them calling themselves "a dynasty." Two people does not a dynasty make.
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They were STILL small kids when Michael became the lead singer. From what I recall, the time between when Joe put them together and making Michael the lead was pretty short

They were simply rehearsing when it was decided that the 5 year old with the amazing voice was going to be in front lol and even when that happened, things didn't really start happening until 1966-67 when Michael was 8


While, yes Michael went on to overshadow the rest of the brothers and Janet became a star, most of them had some sort of solo chart hit on the pop and r&b charts. The Jacksons are the only family that has nearly every member had a top 40 single on the pop and r&b charts, group or solo
 
mj_brainiac said:
They were STILL small kids when Michael became the lead singer. From what I recall, the time between when Joe put them together and making Michael the lead was pretty short

They were simply rehearsing when it was decided that the 5 year old with the amazing voice was going to be in front lol and even when that happened, things didn't really start happening until 1966-67 when Michael was 8


While, yes Michael went on to overshadow the rest of the brothers and Janet became a star, most of them had some sort of solo chart hit on the pop and r&b charts. The Jacksons are the only family that has nearly every member had a top 40 single on the pop and r&b charts, group or solo
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Point taken, about top 40 singles. But as the (adult) Jacksons, with Michael, they had the hit records Destiny, Triumph, and then Victory. Michael left the group in 1984 for a solo career. The brothers then put out 2300 Jackson Street, which did poorly, and Epic dropped them. I do understand that some folks are fans of the brothers, but personally, I couldn't name any one of their songs as a group or solo, except the unfortunate -- Word to the Badd.
 
respect77 said:
I always felt American Dream was actually kind to both Joseph and Katherine.
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It was based on Katherine's book, My Family, so why it wouldn't have been kind to K & J, although it was dramatised at times.
 
When we say things may remain a "mystery", that's expected and how it SHOULD be (even if we love to know everything) considering in the end of the day we are just fans. We are NOT a part of the Jackson family nor will we or should we know everything. That's really not our business as much as we feel entitled to know the 'ins and outs' of Michael's life for our love/admiration for him. The truth is we know way too much, and I am one to admit that it's very easy to be sucked into it. I find myself still wanting to know more..

Most of us in Michaels eyes would be considered 'nosy'... But we won't ridiculous ourselves for much!
 
KOPV said:
When we say things may remain a "mystery", that's expected and how it SHOULD be (even if we love to know everything) considering in the end of the day we are just fans. We are NOT a part of the Jackson family nor will we or should we know everything. That's really not our business as much as we feel entitled to know the 'ins and outs' of Michael's life for our love/admiration for him. The truth is we know way too much, and I am one to admit that it's very easy to be sucked into it. I find myself still wanting to know more..

Most of us in Michaels eyes would be considered 'nosy'... But we won't ridiculous ourselves for much!
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^^^ Right. None of what we know is the total truth, anyway, because each version is somewhat (or a LOT) different. We know what we know through Michael's writings, public statements, lyrics, depositions (unfortunately), and in other ways. From the family we have the same -- their writings (and song lyrics in the form of the unfortunate Word to the Badd), public statements, a made-for-tv movie, even lawsuits, and the tweets of his children, and in many other ways. How we piece together and interpret all that material is very individual, person-by-person, to form a more-or-less whole impression. No, one, impression is wholly accurate, or wholly false.
 
mj_brainiac said:
While, yes Michael went on to overshadow the rest of the brothers and Janet became a star, most of them had some sort of solo chart hit on the pop and r&b charts. The Jacksons are the only family that has nearly every member had a top 40 single on the pop and r&b charts, group or solo
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Did Jackie, Tito, Marlon have solo chart- hits ? The only hit I remember is Jermaines duet with Zadora "When the rain beginns to fall"
 
Autumn II said:
^^^ Right. None of what we know is the total truth, anyway, because each version is somewhat (or a LOT) different. We know what we know through Michael's writings, public statements, lyrics, depositions (unfortunately), and in other ways. From the family we have the same -- their writings (and song lyrics in the form of the unfortunate Word to the Badd), public statements, a made-for-tv movie, even lawsuits, and the tweets of his children, and in many other ways. How we piece together and interpret all that material is very individual, person-by-person, to form a more-or-less whole impression. No, one, impression is wholly accurate, or wholly false.
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Exactly!! Even things that are 100% known, interpretation would/could make a complete 180 degree turn as to what something means.. You read a clipping for example... Randy driving through the gate, and we drum up what happened by prediction.. Prediction is not FACT, otherwise the word would not exist.

Different interpretations that people could come up with..

Randy was drunk../ Randy was pissed and crazy.. / Randy was under the impression that Mikes team was keeping Mike away because they could take advantage of Michael more if the Jackson's were not involved.. / Randy thought the gate was open.. /

I mean we can do this forever!! The FACT is, we don't know!! and we can only put the pieces of the puzzles we have and put them together.. We have to understand that there will always be missing pieces.. We have to except that..

In addition to that, we have to be fair to the fact we don't see the full picture and we will never so we can't be as judgemental as we tend to be.. It's like fans A-C watch one trailer, fans D-F watch another, and Fans G-I watch a third... Than we come into this forum and try to figure out what the full story is.. We will NEVER know exactly how the story goes..

AND, since we have all seen/read/witnessed different things we are going to have different takes of things. I've seen things in my trailer that you didn't see and vice versa.. So we have to be more open to things when we don't know.
 
There may be more than one version of what happened but I've always chosen to believe Michael. His actions in the last years spoke volumes on the relationship with them to me.
 
Annita said:
Did Jackie, Tito, Marlon have solo chart- hits ? The only hit I remember is Jermaines duet with Zadora "When the rain beginns to fall"
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Tito is the only sibling who didn't have a solo album or single in the 80s or 90s

Jackie had a solo single or two that reached the top 40 on the R&B chart. Marlon had #2 on the R&B chart. In fact, his song and Bad were in the top 10 at the same time

Jermaine had over 15 top 40 singles. Surprises me that Universal (who has his Motown catalog) and Sony (who have his Arista catalog) haven't put together a definitive greatest hits album, especially when theyve both put out collections for acts that only had 4 or 5 moderate hits lol
 
KOPV said:
When we say things may remain a "mystery", that's expected and how it SHOULD be (even if we love to know everything) considering in the end of the day we are just fans. We are NOT a part of the Jackson family nor will we or should we know everything. That's really not our business as much as we feel entitled to know the 'ins and outs' of Michael's life for our love/admiration for him. The truth is we know way too much, and I am one to admit that it's very easy to be sucked into it. I find myself still wanting to know more..

Most of us in Michaels eyes would be considered 'nosy'... But we won't ridiculous ourselves for much!
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I do agree... We as fans would love to leave it to be private. But unfortunately there are people who have tapes to sell, there are just people full of jealousy to comment... And there one thing remain very important - what or if Michael did comment on something like this so we could relay on his interpretation. As some people have already mentioned, Michael is the only one I trust. Maybe it calls to be 'nosy' but I also think that Michael knew and appreciated that his fans are protective. All I'm trying to say is that some things we have to know, no matter whether we like to be informed or not, unfortunately.
 
mj_brainiac said:
Tito is the only sibling who didn't have a solo album or single in the 80s or 90s

Jackie had a solo single or two that reached the top 40 on the R&B chart. Marlon had #2 on the R&B chart. In fact, his song and Bad were in the top 10 at the same time

Jermaine had over 15 top 40 singles. Surprises me that Universal (who has his Motown catalog) and Sony (who have his Arista catalog) haven't put together a definitive greatest hits album, especially when theyve both put out collections for acts that only had 4 or 5 moderate hits lol
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What was marlon's song called and what is it like?
 
barbee0715 said:
I enjoyed this interview-again, you have to take ALL the interviews and kinda mash them up because little details change-this makes it sound like they had no Christmas because they were poor, not because they were Jehovah Witnesses, for example.

I find it funny that Jackie says now "American Dream" portrayed their dad as a total bad guy. If anything, "American Dream" turned Joseph into an actual three dimensional character-the good, the bad and the ugly-so any compassion or affection people feel for Joseph most likely comes from this movie version.
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Ummm wasnt that movie made by jermaine?





respect77 said:
I always felt American Dream was actually kind to both Joseph and Katherine.
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Well actually it did show joesph's bad tempered ways & his cheating with jovannie 's mother
 
8701girl said:
Well actually it did show joesph's bad tempered ways & his cheating with jovannie 's mother
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It also shows him being remorseful and apologetic about that bad temper, the beatings and the cheating which does not seem like the real life Joseph to me.
 
The Vibe from American Dream that Joseph gave off was definitely different than what we see the real Joseph.. The real Joseph gives off a 'cool cat' vibe, speaks chill etc.. In the movie his presence was very different.. Even if the things that happened in the movie was accurate or not, the portrayal of the person was different.
 
KOPV said:
The Vibe from American Dream that Joseph gave off was definitely different than what we see the real Joseph.. The real Joseph gives off a 'cool cat' vibe, speaks chill etc.. In the movie his presence was very different.. Even if the things that happened in the movie was accurate or not, the portrayal of the person was different.
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Yes, and I think the same about Angela Bassett's Katherine: it was different to real life Katherine.
 
I think posts about the Jackson family go here? I certainly don't "hate" the family. Toward most of them, I feel simply indifference, although both Randy and Jermaine caused Michael some grief, so I like them LESS than the others. Jerm lost me with Word to the Badd, which was a horrendous attack on Michael! As for Randy, his behavior during Michael's trial was deplorable, IMHO, and the family's failure to pursue reparations from Conrad Murray was a bit of a shocker, and made no sense except for their hope of future financial gain through a civil suit against -- AEG. As we know, that didn't happen, and they got zero reparations from anyone. But for the rest of them, including 3-T, I see a somewhat stunted family used to the entitlement of living off of Michael's money. I think the "dynasty mythology" has done them no favors, and maybe prevented them from pursuing careers OTHER than entertainment, that they might have been more suited for?

I have no problem with anyone being fans of "the family," or individual family members -- I'm just not feelin' it, personally.
 
8701girl said:
What was marlon's song called and what is it like?
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Here's Marlon on Soul Train with his #2 song-there's a really great 2 part interview with him on the Arsenio Hall show and he performs both songs live as well. Marlon gives a great interview-he's super personable.

 
pminton said:
That was nice see some Michael moves in there.
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That was a REALLY good performance. In terms of it being "nice to see some Michael moves in there," agree, and that is both a blessing and a huge constraint, that the rest of the family are compared to Michael. Michael was immensely talented, and there'll never be anyone else like him.
 
I got to tell the true here Michael stolen my heart the first time i saw the Jackson5 on Tv this sweet and adorable little kid i just blew me away i fell in love with his and still in love with MJ today i have nothing against the brothers their were not my favor Michael was the one. Leaving Motown was a good move for the Jacksons do not get me wrong but Motown had control over you i grew up with Motown music so it was nice to see the bothers be able to be more invole in their music.

Alots of ppls have said it really did not matter if Jermaine let Motown or not Michael still would have done a solo career which is true. Brothers just fell apart as boys bands do. It was sad to see Michael taking on the pressure of taking care of the family that was alots and it is still going on today. The family just fell apart and maybe that what Michael felt getting distance from the family was the only way he can deal with it that imo. Michael said in the movie The Jackson In America Dream that fame will not bring them down but something happen alone the way that this family just fell apart sad to see.:(
 
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Autumn II said:
That was a REALLY good performance. In terms of it being "nice to see some Michael moves in there," agree, and that is both a blessing and a huge constraint, that the rest of the family are compared to Michael. Michael was immensely talented, and there'll never be anyone else like him.
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Most of these things are in my "memory bank" as I didn't get a VCR til 86-and didn't have cable til 95. But it's funny when I find stuff on YouTube how it's really close to how I remember it.
You'll notice, if you watch Marlon's interviews-that the conversation always goes to Michael-THAT'S the only person they ever want to talk about-and he's always good natured about it, and he'll laugh and sometimes say something, but more often than not, he'll pointedly direct the conversation back to himself. I saw it when Janet was on talk shows as well-even though she was a big star by then-the conversation always led to the interviewer getting Michael in there somehow.

I'll have to find this again-I was watching a really old interview of Jermaine on Soul Train with Don Cornelius-who obviously liked Jermaine's song-but said something rather cutting about being robbed of the "lead singer" position by his little brother. And Jermaine just shrugged and smiled-and I was thinking-my gosh, they were dogging them all the way back then about it.
 
Autumn II said:
That was a REALLY good performance. In terms of it being "nice to see some Michael moves in there," agree, and that is both a blessing and a huge constraint, that the rest of the family are compared to Michael. Michael was immensely talented, and there'll never be anyone else like him.
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So true.
 
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