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The Jackson Family actions concerning Conrad Murray. [Discussion Thread]

jaydom7 said:
why didn't she notice what was going on with her son who she saw in April, May and June 2009?
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This is why she is called hypocrite. She saw Michael during his last months but testified during the trial that Michael had so much clothing on that she didn't notice the weight loss. She was accusing AEG for exactly the same that she herself failed to see. AEG people testified when they saw MJ, he had layers of clothing on so to them it wasn't like they had x-ray vision anymore than Katherine.

What I find interesting that she is willing to forgive CM and even help with his appeal, but her forgiveness does not extend to AEG (and they didn't kill her son). Says a lot about her.
 
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Bubs said:
This is why she is called hypocrite. She saw Michael during his last months but testified during the trial that Michael had cloting on that she didn't notice the weight loss. She was accusing AEG for exactly the same that she herself failed to see. AEG people testified when they saw MJ, he had layers of clothing on so to them it wasn't like they had x-ray vision anymore than Katherine.

What I find interesting that she is willing to forgive CM and even help with his appeal, but her forgiveness does not extend to AEG (and they didn't kill her son). Says a lot about her.
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It's unbelievable.. the man that killed her son and recorded him in a drugged up and vulnerable state she is willing to help with his appeal and AEG who was just a concert promotor she wants big bucks from.. It says a lot about her.
 
There is no excuse for this. It doesn't matter what Michael said about her. Actions speak louder than words. I feel sorry for his children. Just when you think people can't act any lower than they do and they do something else. AEG is not Michael's family. I am not related to Michael but if someone asked me to make a deal with Murray I would say NO. Strangers show Michael more support and fight for him than people who are related to him. Do you realize how sad that is?
 
jaydom7 said:
It's unbelievable.. the man that killed her son and recorded him in a drugged up and vulnerable state she is willing to help with his appeal and AEG who was just a concert promotor she wants big bucks from.. It says a lot about her.
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A few additions to your list:
The very same man who was filmed document, in which he spoke about fungus on MJ's feet, how dirty MJ was and him and his attorneys talking down to her son, the same man who said Michael killed himself by drinking propofol or/and taking tablets when he wasn't looking, the same man who organised photo op outside of Michael's final resting place, the very same man who said Michael committed suicide etc etc.
All that didn't matter to Katherine.

Yeah, she trying to make a deal with devil.
 
Bubs said:
This is why she is called hypocrite. She saw Michael during his last months but testified during the trial that Michael had so much clothing on that she didn't notice the weight loss. She was accusing AEG for exactly the same that she herself failed to see. AEG people testified when they saw MJ, he had layers of clothing on so to them it wasn't like they had x-ray vision anymore than Katherine.

What I find interesting that she is willing to forgive CM and even help with his appeal, but her forgiveness does not extend to AEG (and they didn't kill her son). Says a lot about her.
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Bubs,

When Katherine claimed she didn't notice the weight loss because MJ had on a coat I was flabbergasted. We all could see how skinny MJ had gotten especially in those red pants when he was coming and going from Klein's office. How in the world didn't his Mother of all people notice? Mike has always been thin but he was skinnier than usual. And again in April, May and June why was MJ wearing a coat? wasn't it warm in California? that should've been a red flag to her. She didn't care what was going on with MJ's health is the answer. She was more concerned about ALLGOOD , Joe and her other cubs so they all could get paid. She herself was promised a million dollar payday from ALLGOOD if this show happened.
 
Bubs said:
A few additions to your list:
The very same man who was filmed document, in which he spoke about fungus on MJ's feet, how dirty MJ was and him and his attorneys talking down to her son, the same man who said Michael killed himself by drinking propofol or/and taking tablets when he wasn't looking, the same man who organised photo op outside of Michael's final resting place, the very same man who said Michael committed suicide etc etc.
All that didn't matter to Katherine.

Yeah, she trying to make a deal with devil.
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sad.. and the bad part is she sat and listened to everything in court and she sat and listened to the judge, Judge Pastor, rake Murray over the coals for violating his patient's trust and recording him like that to sell it to some tabloid, and yet she doesn't even care. She was willing to let Murray 'slide' saying he wouldn't 'hurt' anyone else:busted: What he did to her son was enough don't you think??
 
First of all you have no idea about me or my thoughts obviously.
Ppl/fans chose to be how they want to... that's all up to them... to me at times it's interesting why.

If Katherine presented things to Michael she liked or she thought is good business wise then that to me is a thing a mother does with her son.

I'm not talking for anyone else but myself and what I write is my opinion.

I am certainly a fan still caring about Michael, how he felt and how he might still feels if he is somewhere out there!
Let's put it he is still living on in my heart!
I am a fan who cares about how his children probably feel if they look and read on this board.
And yep that is a reason why I can't understand this hatefull negative talking about his 80+ old mother (and I have no idea if KatherineJackson might is what you call senile! I find that respectless to say that about any old person btw that is me!) whom he trusted his children with!
And I ask again,what's gained by that or ever achieved by that?!
But well... I don't need an answer to it, that's also obvious!
That's all!
 
It's is conflicting, baffling, and illogical for anyone who subscribes to the “greedy Jacksons” theory to expect the family to behave with love, loyalty, etc. The surprise, hurt, etc. should have been voiced from the so-called “family supporter(s)” correct?

I am not referring to AEG, I am referring to posters who determined a difference so as to continue a tirade against Katherine and any Jackson for any given reason. The defense also courted the doctor but, we will most likely not read about what they offered and may continue to offer the killer so he does not seek legal recourse for his $300K from his employer.

Michael’s family did not sign the letter that I nor anyone else here has seen. Provided the letter exists, Katherine alone signed it at the direction of her legal counsel. No one here knows if and how conflicted she may have been to do that and I do not expect to see any compassion for it.
 
Mike has always been thin but he was skinnier than usual
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No he wasn't. He was a lot thinner in the 80's than what he was in 2009.
 
qbee said:
Tygger, AEG didn't call the Kettle Black. That reference is when 2 are wrong on one calls the other out. but yes I do understand you saying it would be wrong no matter who offered an agreement like this. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. No one here is defending AEG but no one expects loyalty to Michael from AEG either, he is not their son. We do expect it from his own family. If you want us to say shame on AEG we can do that too. but their actions don't concern fans as much as Michael's family supporting or trying to settle with their son's killer. That hurts. There is a difference.
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There might be a difference to fans but do you think the media give a toss about how mj was let down by his family - they just see this leaked document as an opportunity to trash the jacksons - mj, mrs j, jerms it doesn't really matter to them. Agree with tygger, any side deals aeg offered to murray won't see the light of day as the media simply aren't interested, certainly not because they're suddenly ethical and see a difference between the actions of a firm and a family.

Don't see anyone asking where this document comes from, just an eagerness to quote anti-mj tabloid websites to show the document's really genuine. The document obviously came from either wass, murray's lawyer with murray's consent, or murray and his girlfriend. That new york tabloid will have paid for it so that money will go towards paying off murray's legal fees i expect and if this transaction was arranged by the lawyer then it wouldn't have been subject to any restitution. So this is the start of murray's post prison cashing-in career acting in conjunction with the tabloids.
 
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I don't see how the possibility that Murray or his attorney may have leaked it, or that it's a tabloid publishing the story, mitigates KJ's actions if such a deal was offered to Murray. I don't think it unreasonable (or makes me a meanie) to expect more from Michael's family than from the tabloids, AEG or the man that killed him.
 
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I am not going to call Katherine any names out of respect for Michael. But I am not going to agree with her choices just because she is Michael's mother. I don't have to.

If it's true that she was willing to help Murray get out of jail early so he could help her case against AEG than there is no good reason to justify that to me. In my opinion he should be in jail right now. 2 years is nothing to a life time without Michael here. The man killed her son and there should be no deals at all.

Where is the integrity and morals of people? Not everything in life should be about money. I have tried so much to give Katherine the benefit of the doubt because she is his mother. It's becoming too hard when it goes against the things I feel and believe. When she talks about Michael I feel her pain but then I read these things and I can't understand it.
 
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Bonnie Blue said:
Don't see anyone asking where this document comes from, just an eagerness to quote anti-mj tabloid websites to show the document's really genuine. The document obviously came from either wass, murray's lawyer with murray's consent, or murray and his girlfriend. That new york tabloid will have paid for it so that money will go towards paying off murray's legal fees i expect and if this transaction was arranged by the lawyer then it wouldn't have been subject to any restitution. So this is the start of murray's post prison cashing-in career acting in conjunction with the tabloids.
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I lean towards Wass.

If it was a legal representative of the doctor and if that legal representative received monies, it is an indirect payment (monies directly to Wass similar to monies directly to his lawyers for the documentary) so restitution would not hinder that effort.
 
If you do not stop someone doesn't mean automatically you do support that someone!
If you do not stop someone when you can, doesn't mean automatically you're responsible for what this person then might does!
If you do not talk bad about someone doesn't mean you automatically do support that someone!
If you do not agree with someone doesn't mean automatically you're friends with everyone/fans of everyone who might was ever in their life an opponent to that someone!
If you care about someone it doesn't mean you're following that someone automatically blind in all their possible believes!
If you love someone it doesn't even mean you're following all their believes blind or agrees with everything the person ever did or agrees with everything the person ever said! I know it's said love makes you blind but to me the opposite is mostly true... at least when it's real love to me!... but you do care very much about that person.


If you love someone you'll care about that someone no matter if the person is dead or alive!


I understand everyone who can't feel or does not see that the Jackson family cares about Michael especially when we look at their possibilities to make sure Murray can't profit from his crime. Do I think that was a very wrong decision? YES to me it surely was!

BUT I still don't see now Katherine Jackson or the Jackson family responsible for what the Murray guy does and will do. That still is his and completely his... even more since he is the one blaming others always for all his wrong doings ever!

I understand everyone who thinks and feels that actions do speak louder than words. To me it is the very same!
I do understand all that.

It's just I do care so much about Michael still and I guess I always will.
And I am what my actions and my words tell about me no matter if talking about Michael Jackson, his kids, Katherine Jackson, the Murray guy, God or the devil!
I do care if the person who is me, means my words and/or actions, could hurt Michael Jackson. That is what I have in my hands and that is my responsibility.
 
Mechi said:
BUT I still don't see now Katherine Jackson or the Jackson family responsible for what the Murray guy does and will do. That still is his and completely his... even more since he is the one blaming others always for all his wrong doings ever!
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This is nice sentence. But I mean it would fit in the thread 'Katherine Jackson vs. AEG' with exchange for 'Katherine Jackson or the Jackson family' with 'AEG'.

Here, in this thread it is not so simple. It is true that C.M. is responsible for his own doing. But only with Mrs. Jackson's renunciation of compensation against him it was possible for him to do what he want to do in relation to Michael.

And responsibilty is a shoe size what is not fit for a C.M.
 
krikzil said:
I don't see how the possibility that Murray or his attorney may have leaked it, or that it's a tabloid publishing the story, mitigates KJ's actions if such a deal was offered to Murray.
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I never said it mitigates mrs j's actions. I was just pointing out that this story is a result of collusion between the tabs and murray and so i was surprised everybody just jumped on it to bash mrs j. MJ fans might only see the story as evidence that mrs j favours $$ more than justice, but murray and i expect the general public will read the story as evidence that even mj's own mother doesn't really harbour any ill feeling towards murray despite what she says in public and this feeds into the powerful meme that murray was just in the wrong place in the wrong time and if it wasn't him giving mj propofol on that day it wd have been another doctor and it was mj who was resp for his death not murray etc etc. This is a bad story for mj, not for mrs j, in terms of the general public.
 
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Bonnie Blue said:
but murray and i expect the general public will read the story as evidence that even mj's own mother doesn't really harbour any ill feeling towards murray
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but that's the impression the family gives with most of their actions and words. They've never expressed even half the outrage towards Murray that they have for the Estate and AEG. If Murray made a collusion with the tabs in relation to this document, then it is because Katherine gave him the ammunition to do it.
 
They've shown no outrage at all at Murray but I am not surprised. Remember Katherine said out of her own mouth that when she thought MJ was having too much plastic surgery and wanted something else done, she would call the plastic surgeon herself and tell him 'not to operate on him' to just pretend by 'knocking' him out but not doing anything? She obviously thought it was OK for doctors to be unethical by knocking out there patient but doing no surgery, but still possibly charging MJ tons of money. I am telling ya'll Katherine is not an innocent bystander in this saga.:doh:
 
serendipity said:
but that's the impression the family gives with most of their actions and words. They've never expressed even half the outrage towards Murray that they have for the Estate and AEG. If Murray made a collusion with the tabs in relation to this document, then it is because Katherine gave him the ammunition to do it.
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I totally agree. The family has always acted like "casual observers" when it comes to Murray showing not even a trace of outrage. How Katherine could feel "compassion" so early in the grieving process for a man who willfully showed recklessness and carelessness resulting in the death of her son is something I will never understand. Then, we hear about this declaration of supporting Murray's release from jail after serving only 2 years in a "let's make a deal" for Murray to support her charges against AEG is repulsive and sickening.

I always had respect for Mrs. Jackson, because she is Michael's mother, until recently. After her neglectful behavior toward Paris, her AEG lawsuit that violated Michael's privacy and dignity, and now this evil pact with the devil, I no longer understand how Michael's fans can justify her actions. I've always been on the side of Michael and his children--and that will never change. But, I now see Mrs. Jackson, sadly, as an unsympathetic figure, lacking in character and ethics, and no different than her conniving cubs.
 
It's not like people intended on disliking Katherine. She is the one I think everybody liked and respected the most. The way Michael would talk about her and took care of her. She is the only one provided in the will besides his kids. In the last 4 years she has been the one that has been upsetting people the most with her words and actions. The others well they are acting as they normally would. But with Katherine it's been nothing but confusion and shock with her behavior and decisions. Believe it or not but so many have tried to give her the benefit of the doubt. Now it's getting hard to see any reasons and excuses anymore. It's too much.
 
How do you see our responsilbity then for Murrays possible future actions as being a part of society following media which make this possible at all basically in paying for such stories?
That's also Katherine Jacksons guilt part I guess although isn't it the ppl deciding to pay for it or is it more those who hunger for such stories?!?!?!

How do you see our responsibiity for Murrays actions and every criminals actions in not getting up our butts enough for changing the law the way that noone would ever be able to profite from their crime?
 
Melchi, there is no personal accountability for some in this situation. Instead, all responsibility lay on Katherine despite Katherine, Joe, and legal representatives for Michael’s parents and his children agreeing to reject restitution.

Not one profitable action this killer has performed using the name of the man he killed since that fatal crime would have been protected by restitution. Not ONE.

That reality does not support the theory that Katherine rejected restitution solely so she could extort monies from AEG.

The conversation will gear to the direction it seems to always gear to. Good luck.
 
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I know what you mean Tygger however I don't even doubt Katherine was adviced and agreed to not ask for restitution because then it would be more likely to at all have a chance against AEGlive or better the big money. Her motivation probably was to get that money for her family.

I don't ask these questions to get answers... I don't expect or need those.

Sometimes I feel the need to just present it's not only ppl on this board who want to blame Katherine Jackson for Murrays actions and also for AEGs actions and whatelse....
I'm an adult enough to know who's doing the choice of actions and to know there's always a choice for everybody.
Again to me she did some pretty bad choices and she certainly also said some doubtful things... however she is the person Michael also undoubtfully loved the most aside from his children.

No, that's right it doesn't make her holy... but to me it makes her one thing, it makes her human, very human.

Katherine Jackson has to care (thankfully not alone anymore) for three teenagers (yeah I know Blanket still a kid but almost one) in an age... well I called it the monster age when the two I brought up were in that age. noooo don't get me wrong I have always loved the two boys I'm talking about more than my own life!

Katherine Jackson has adult children and probably also grandchildren NEEDING money from their 80+ old mom/grandmom cuz she has always given to them... I can almost hear them talking! Does she might have not a tiny but a big part in this outcome herself... could be... however doesn't make it easier!

Then I also know a tiny bit (nothing compared to what KJ has to go through with them) the media business... it is beyond crazy!

Then I have a lot also to do with lawyers... they all do have their own agendas!

I'm not blaming anyone here for anything... but I want clearly fans here to overthink if it's really Katherine Jackson to blame for all... and ok if they do have that opinion sheeeeeeeeeesh that's even ok also but then please overthink what you wanna say and how you wanna say it and try to imagine it's Michael Jackson and/or his three children reading it, please try to imagine how Michael would feel and how his three kids might would... just because we are a Michael Jackson fan board? Just because we still care about Michael?

That is my point... as clear as I could get it with my poor english... and with this I'll rest my case!
 
Mechi said:
Katherine Jackson has to care (thankfully not alone anymore) for three teenagers (yeah I know Blanket still a kid but almost one) in an age... well I called it the monster age when the two I brought up were in that age. noooo don't get me wrong I have always loved the two boys I'm talking about more than my own life
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Has to care? Not really, they always had nannies, and according to herself, TJ been helping her all along. She has been too busy with various business deals and court cases to take care of the kids, and failed to notice what was going on under her own roof.
I have yet to come across any information that she, for example has taken kids to holidays with her. Every time she takes them somewhere, kids ends up like this:
Julian+Rouas+%2526+Paris+Jackson.jpg


The only purpose you see them with KJ is when they need kids to support their shady deals or media appearance to support KJ own agenda, but they do not spend any other time with her.

Just an example how differently other people who loved Michael operates. Elisabeth Taylor who had a heart surgery earlier of the month, and was in wheel chair, was still able to take them out to Universal studios, and she was seriously in bad condition.

We have yet so see when KJ does fun things(real fun for kids, no promote stuff) with kids
If she goes on with this appeal, she will not have time to kids at all in the future either. MJ didn't leave his kids to his mother to be used for advertising stuff, and pushed aside when there is nothing to advertise.

Mechi said:
please try to imagine how Michael would feel and how his three kids might would... just because we are a Michael Jackson fan board? Just because we still care about Michael?
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My counter question, please try to imagine how would Michael feel after seeing what has happened since he passed? I have zero doubt in my mind that he would picked up the kids and never to be seen in her company again, also he would have changed his will and selected other guardian.
 
Yeah but it's up to him, Michael to judge about that as he will know what's happening there more than what's media transporting or it's up to his kids to judge one day cuz they'll have all the knowledge needed!
Or it's up to TJ or a children protection services who can get all the knowledge needed about bringing up these children. A knowledge non of us will ever have.

Then again I do hope they'll always keep it private means live the consequences and keep private stuff private... as Michael usually did all his life long.
 
Those children are nothing but means of money to her. She looks a them them the same way she looked at Michael. He was an ATM and nothing more.
 
Melchi, I understand your points and it would be an interesting discussion I would enjoy having. However, I do not participate in discussions where the purpose is to express continual distaste for Katherine for whatever reason. I understand that is not the full purpose of your post however, that is where the current discussion is.
 
Tygger;3929660 said:
It is conflicting, baffling, and illogical for anyone who subscribes to the “greedy Jacksons” theory to expect the family to behave with love, loyalty, etc. The surprise, hurt, etc. should have been voiced from the so-called “family supporter(s)” correct?

I am not referring to AEG, I am referring to posters who determined a difference so as to continue a tirade against Katherine and any Jackson for any given reason. The defense also courted the doctor but, we will most likely not read about what they offered and may continue to offer the killer so he does not seek legal recourse for his $300K from his employer.

Michael’s family did not sign the letter that I nor anyone else here has seen. Provided the letter exists, Katherine alone signed it at the direction of her legal counsel. No one here knows if and how conflicted she may have been to do that and I do not expect to see any compassion for it.
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That doesn't make sense to me at all.
 
twinklEE said:
Those children are nothing but means of money to her. She looks a them them the same way she looked at Michael. He was an ATM and nothing more.
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As much as I believe that many of Katherine's choices revolve around money I don't think the above statement is true. I don't believe any of them only mean money to her, I don't believe it is as black and white as all that. Personally I believe that Katherine will put aside her principles for the greater good of the family and unfortunately it is Michael P,P&B who have been compromised/sacrificed for the greater good. Somehow in her mind she justifies it all, but I do believe that in her heart she loves them.

As with most things there are grey areas.
 
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