The Gay Gene Debate

i hear u. imo though the small children are not by nature ready to learn about homosexuality and same-sex marriages. when i was a kid i was feeling very uncomfortable seeing homosexual couples on tv and being around them. this had to do of course with everything i knew so far about relationships and marriage. teaching little kids about homosexuality is a lot more serious than someone imagines. i personally believe that kids are not ready for that.

children are far more resilient and astute when it comes to people and relationships than people let on. I think there's an ignorance that a lot of adults house in their minds where they simply believe "they wont understand because it's complex"
when in reality it's not that complex to begin with, adults just make it complex by attaching meanings to the concept.
Where kids just see a happy couple with respect and understanding for each other and the people around them.... adults see a couple who are going against god's law, or some social concept.
Heck even Michael Jackson has spoken time and time again about how children are able to see the truth in things much easier than adults who have developed their prejudices... as Albert Einstein once said.... "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
 
If we want the next generation to live without prejudice and hate, we have to start by changing ourselves. We have to change the way we think. Do not pinpoint to the children and use them as an excuse to cloak your prejudice.

Gay people do not interfere and interrupt your life hence why is there a need to judge and destroy ours?

P/s: Sorry to hear that Jona. I wish your man and you to have a very great life together even though life can really difficult at times.
 
beautifully right, LJ. such parents defeat their own purpose when they over-complicate a very simple situation for the sake of "protection". firstly, there's nothing to "protect" from, and secondly children are forever curious and will find out these facts of life one way or another. we need a "stop bullshitting your kids" campaign.

also terms like "natural", "innocence (purity)", "sinless" etc. need to be re-evaluated or in many cases just scrapped.
 
I really don't know what to say. I really don't. My life has changed dramatically over the past 7 months. I met the love of my life and changed my entire world to be with him. I left my family and home behind and headed to California to move in with him. I came out to my family after 26 years of being in the closet. It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do. Everything happened so fast but I knew that this man was worth it. It was worth turning my life upside down to be with him. To finally live for myself and not for my family. So I took a leap of faith and it ended up being the best thing I had ever done. I got engaged to be married two months ago and couldn't be happier (or rather I was). I'm not sure what I am anymore being that my right to happiness has been taken away. My spring wedding has gone up in smoke. I am really upset by Prop H8te. More than anything my feelings are hurt. I finally changed my life and had everything falling in to place and now this happens. I found the love that I never thought was possible for me (coming from a small southern town). It was all so magical despite not having the support of my family (who believe I'm going to Hell). I have given up so much and fought so hard to live the kind of life I have every right to live and now this happens. It is such a slap in the face. I am really dumbfounded by the ignorance, hatred, and bigotry of my fellow man.

I'm sorry to hear about what happened, but just stay strong. **hugs** I wish you and your boo all the happiness in the world. **hugs again**
 
Oh, please. I don't what you all were expecting. Christians, Muslims, and Jews make up about 80% of the population. I realize there's religious folks who don't mind, but that's a slim percentage.

I know America's in this "change" phase, but even Obama believes marriage is between a man and woman only. America's no Europe and frankly, we're not as open-minded.
 
I know America's in this "change" phase, but even Obama believes marriage is between a man and woman only.
lol he wouldn't have gotten the position otherwise. same when Biden and Palin shared an orgasm over Israel in their debate (against the view of the rest of the world). if you go back to his books and ideals, especially Dreams from My Father, you'd see how dodgy some of his presidential stances became just to sway specific voters.
 
lol he wouldn't have gotten the position otherwise. same when Biden and Palin shared an orgasm over Israel in their debate (against the view of the rest of the world). if you go back to his books and ideals, especially Dreams from My Father, you'd see how dodgy some of his presidential stances became just to sway specific voters.
Well, I haven't read any of his books, so I can't comment on that. But you just enforced my point that homophobia is alive and well in the US.
 
i think "Prop 8" enforced that point for you lol
 
That's ok, we're no better here in Aus, with most of our public freaking out about the evils of homosexuality.
We all want better for our children and our future generations and we say that we want them to be understanding and accepting of others, yet we keep them backwards by teaching them to follow our own prejudices.

Like the quote in my signature says.... "Human beings have an inalienable right to invent themselves; when that right is pre-empted it is called brain washing."
We have the ability to evolve and become something amazing as a society, but sadly for a lot of us, we get brain-washed by the wrong people at the wrong times in our lives :lol:


I imagine everyone will stop worrying about these minor issues in a few years when they realise that we're running out of oil :bugeyed

(p.s don't tell George W Bush... but Australia has a lot of untapped oil reserves :unsure: )
 
I really don't know what to say. I really don't. My life has changed dramatically over the past 7 months. I met the love of my life and changed my entire world to be with him. I left my family and home behind and headed to California to move in with him. I came out to my family after 26 years of being in the closet. It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do. Everything happened so fast but I knew that this man was worth it. It was worth turning my life upside down to be with him. To finally live for myself and not for my family. So I took a leap of faith and it ended up being the best thing I had ever done. I got engaged to be married two months ago and couldn't be happier (or rather I was). I'm not sure what I am anymore being that my right to happiness has been taken away. My spring wedding has gone up in smoke. I am really upset by Prop H8te. More than anything my feelings are hurt. I finally changed my life and had everything falling in to place and now this happens. I found the love that I never thought was possible for me (coming from a small southern town). It was all so magical despite not having the support of my family (who believe I'm going to Hell). I have given up so much and fought so hard to live the kind of life I have every right to live and now this happens. It is such a slap in the face. I am really dumbfounded by the ignorance, hatred, and bigotry of my fellow man.

Jona don't give up! Keep the faith! Ever thought of moving to Germany? You're welcome here. We do not segregate anymore and I'm thankfull for that. Honestly I think we're still a bit homophobic and also phobic with all other kind of stuff the general public doesn't know too well, like also islamophobic... but it seems at least Germany and some other countries here in Europe have the dumpness under controll and are still educated enough.

It's a shame what's done to gays with this... so the direction shows to what next... next every unmarried couple living together will be restricted in human rights?

I feel ashamed. I know it's not rightfull doing and as I do believe in God and as I am a religious person I do think it's also not rightfull doing in front of God. I know this in my heart and questioning things only with the mind God gave me to question.
All men are created equal.
It's not ok to give rights only to a certain group. Either rights and this way justice is valid for everybody or it's an illusion.
In California justice just got treated like garbage... and wow they did so in the name of God?! Goodness gracious ppl... happy judgement day really! :no: I'll better say a prayer for everybody and I mean this pretty serious, don't anybody will take me wrong on this.
 
Thank you everyone for all your kind words. Yes, it does indeed suck but we will see it through. Change doesn't happen overnight and nothing ever gets done if you give up. I'll keep on being the best person I can be, love unconditionally, and hope that good will come my way. I found love and no one can take that is one thing no one can take away from me.
 
Thank you everyone for all your kind words. Yes, it does indeed suck but we will see it through. Change doesn't happen overnight and nothing ever gets done if you give up. I'll keep on being the best person I can be, love unconditionally, and hope that good will come my way. I found love and no one can take that is one thing no one can take away from me.

And that's what's important. The fight for all people of gay orientation to get marry (and have kids) isn't over yet. They won a battle, but not the war. :flowers: I wish you and your partner the best at whatever happens. :wub:
 
Malaysian religious council issues ban on lesbian sex

Oct 23, 2008


KUALA LUMPUR (AFP) — One of Malaysia's highest Islamic bodies has banned females from dressing or behaving like men and engaging in lesbian sex, saying it was forbidden by the religion.


The National Fatwa Council late Thursday issued its ruling following a two-day meeting that discussed recent cases of young women apparently behaving like men and exhibiting homosexual tendencies, state news agency Bernama reported.


Council chairman Abdul Shukor Husin told Bernama many young women admired the way men dress, behave and socialise, violating human nature and denying their femininity.


"It is unacceptable to see women who love the male lifestyle including dressing in the clothes men wear," Abdul Shukor was quoted as saying.


"(Masculine behaviour) becomes clearer when they start to have sex with someone of the same gender, that is woman and woman," he said.


"In view of this, the National Fatwa Council which met today have decided and taken the stand that such acts are forbidden and banned," he said.


Male homosexuality, considered against the order of nature, is illegal in Malaysia but lawyers say female homosexuality is technically permissible as there are no provisions for it under the law.
The Fatwa Council does not have jurisdiction in civil law, but the ruling appears to be an attempt to push female homosexuality towards illegality.


Islam is the official religion of Malaysia, where more than 60 percent of its 27 million people are Muslim Malays who practice a conservative brand of the religion.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5izKo_RKkF40cfljjibbi3Yai-5Tw



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Tomboys sneer at fatwa, vow no change

A BAN on tomboys will not change their lifestyle, several pengkid (tomboys) told Metro Ahad. They questioned how the edict by the National Fatwa Council last month would be enforced.


A tomboy named Win asked:


“Surely I will not be arrested if I dress like a man or when I am eating out with other girls?”


Win is certain the fatwa will not change their ways or activities.


“The ban is only on paper as it will be difficult for the authorities to determine if a girl is a tomboy,” she said.


Win said most of them did not commit wrongful acts.


“We just want to have fun, but I don’t deny there are some who go overboard and fall in love and have lesbian relationships,” she said.


Win noted however that a sexual relationship between them would be safe as there was no chance of getting pregnant.


However, she added:


“I know I cannot go on like this forever and one day I will change. If my mother forces me to marry a man, I will force myself to marry,” she said.(Depressing mindset)


Asni, 25, said she was amused by the fatwa against tomboys, adding that since “becoming a man” she has led a happier life, falling in love and living with her female friend.


“Right now I do not want to know (about the ban).


“I know we are choosing the wrong path. But I cannot change the way I have always felt,” said Asni, who hugged her partner during the interview.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/11/10/nation/2503610&sec=nation

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Malaysian Islamic party slams protests over lesbian sex ban

22 hours ago


KUALA LUMPUR (AFP) — Malaysia's hardline Islamic party has hit out at criticism of a "fatwa" or religious ban on lesbian sex, reports said Tuesday, after civil society groups held street protests over the decision.


One of Malaysia's highest Islamic bodies last month banned females from dressing or behaving like men and engaging in lesbian sex, saying it was forbidden by the religion.


Nik Abdul Aziz Nik Mat, spiritual leader of the Islamic party PAS, said such rulings should be respected by all in Malaysia, which is dominated by Muslim Malays but also home to large ethnic Chinese and Indian communities.


"Not only non-Muslims but also Muslims cannot protest against any fatwa," he was quoted as saying by the state Bernama news agency.


"All fatwa are based on the Koran and Sunnah (traditions of the Prophet Mohammed) and... to protest against them is like going against the teachings of Allah," he said.


"Who are we to go against Allah's commands, are we that great?"


At least two non-Muslim civil society groups have held street demonstrations in recent weeks to protest last month's National Fatwa Council ruling.


Although the Fatwa Council does not have jurisdiction in civil law, the ruling appears to be an attempt to push female homosexuality towards illegality.


A top Islamic cleric last month said the Fatwa Council was also planning to ban Muslims from the ancient practice of yoga if they engage in Hindu "religious elements" during the exercise.


Islam is the official religion of Malaysia, and many non-Muslims say they are concerned about growing "Islamisation" of the multicultural nation.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hvVj4q797DjBQMALOLC6BuzvXcSg


Note: The Islamic party PAS is a very conservative Islamic party in Malaysia. The followers can be aggressive when they need to be.

But speaking of Malaysia, the Islamic Council is set to ban Yoga as well.

I think we are getting worse and worse every year. Whatever happened to the old modern non conservative Malaysia?
 
Holy Moly......

looks like I gotta cross Malaysia off my places on Earth to visit. I typically dress in sports gear which can or not come across looking maleish... (pants, shirt with collar etc).


It does sound like things are changing their Rebirth, is this a descent into madness? or just a willingness for people to give up making decisions to those who say they're more equipped at the ability... (muslim clerics)

:no: :no:

oh well ladies come to Australia
 
Oh dear...Malaysia is becoming quite a hell for the homosexual community :no:
And that ban on manly clothes or acting manly is simply ridiculous...

It's as if, instead of evolving, the country is going in reverse :(

*hugs* Rebirth
 
Holy Moly......

looks like I gotta cross Malaysia off my places on Earth to visit. I typically dress in sports gear which can or not come across looking maleish... (pants, shirt with collar etc).


It does sound like things are changing their Rebirth, is this a descent into madness? or just a willingness for people to give up making decisions to those who say they're more equipped at the ability... (muslim clerics)

:no: :no:

oh well ladies come to Australia

- Warning: Headache: Been listening to Daft Punk for 2 hrs straight. Making me dizzy. I think I'm going to throw up. lol -

Well I believe that the council will not going to bug the tourist over this issue so you guys are safe. I think they are solely after the Muslim folks.

Things have been changing slowly in Malaysia since year 2004. A new Prime Minister was elected in late 2003 and he has promoted "Islam Hadhari" to Malaysia.

Islam Hadhari (Civilizational Islam) is a theory of government based on the principles of Islam as derived from the Quran

Principles of Islam Hadhari:

It consists of 10 fundamental principles.

  • Faith and piety in Allah
  • Just and trustworthy government
  • Freedom and independence to the people (Meh)
  • Mastery of knowledge
  • Balanced and comprehensive economic development
  • Good quality of life for all
  • Protection of the rights of minority groups and women
  • Cultural and moral integrity
  • Protection of the environment
  • A strong defense policy
A lot of conservative Muslim folks are happy with Islam Hadhari as for them Malaysia is finally shifting to become a proper Islamic country. Old folks including my parents are happy. I groaned.

I sighed because it's not going to work in a multi races and multi religions country like Malaysia. Even though Islam is the official religion, we have to consider the other religions as well.

Malaysia is a very modern country and it has been a moderate Islamic country for years, so why is there a need to make sudden changes now?

But anyway since the 'birth' of Islam Hadhari in Malaysia, some Muslim folks, parties and organizations are becoming really extra brave to voice out their Islamic opinion.

I don't know how they are going to take action towards the tomboys and lesbians in Malaysia. I'll keep updating.

I find it amusing and depressing when our political figures keep on asking every Malaysian particularly Malays to be open and world-wise minded if they want Malaysia to become the next Japan. Sorry folks but we are not going to reach the Japan's standard at all. I believe instead of becoming more open minded, quite a lot of us are actually going backwards.

On the surface, we are still doing fine. But with the ever growing changes, I think we are set to have a major internal problem in the future.
 
Oh dear...Malaysia is becoming quite a hell for the homosexual community :no:
And that ban on manly clothes or acting manly is simply ridiculous...

It's as if, instead of evolving, the country is going in reverse :(

*hugs* Rebirth

Exactly. Some of us are heading backwards.

*Hugs* Cryingangel.
 
flaming heck i have no idea why countries have an "official" religion, people are people, and can choose to follow a faith < its not biological.
 
I find it amusing and depressing when our political figures keep on asking every Malaysian particularly Malays to be open and world-wise minded if they want Malaysia to become the next Japan. Sorry folks but we are not going to reach the Japan's standard at all. I believe instead of becoming more open minded, quite a lot of us are actually going backwards.

This is one of the tens of reasons why I have so much respect for Japan and the Japanese. The people are so open-minded and free in views, you can only admire them.
 
Pope attacks blurring of gender

Pope Benedict XVI has said that saving humanity from homosexual or transsexual behaviour is just as important as saving the rainforest from destruction.

He explained that defending God's creation was not limited to saving the environment, but also about protecting man from self-destruction.

The Pope was delivering his end-of-year address to senior Vatican staff.

His words, later released to the media, emphasised his rejection of gender theory.

Speaking on Monday, Pope Benedict XVI warned that gender theory blurred the distinction between male and female and could thus lead to the "self-destruction" of the human race.

Gender theory
Gender theory explores sexual orientation, the roles assigned by society to individuals according to their gender, and how people perceive their biological identity.
Gay and transsexual groups, particularly in the United States, promote it as a key to understanding and tolerance, but the Pope disagreed

When the Roman Catholic Church defends God's Creation, "it does not only defend the earth, water and the air... but (it) also protects man from his own destruction," he said.
"Rainforests deserve, yes, our protection, but the human being ... does not deserve it less," the pontiff said.
It is not "out-of-date metaphysics" to "speak of human nature as 'man' or woman'", he told scores of prelates gathered in the Vatican's sumptuous Clementine Hall.
"We need something like human ecology, meant in the right way."


The Catholic Church opposes gay marriage. It teaches that while homosexuality is not sinful, homosexual acts are.

Rev Sharon Ferguson, chief executive of Britain's Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement, described the Pope's remarks as "totally irresponsible and unacceptable".

"When you have religious leaders like that making that sort of statement then followers feel they are justified in behaving in an aggressive and violent way," she said.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7796663.stm
 
dont even get me started on the pope and the catholic church. run for the hills we are all gonna be taken over by scary gay ppl going around holding each others hands. oh no the world is gonna end cause no ones breading.good will to all men and all that! nice to see they have their priorites in order as normal. shame some of the leaders in certain areas werent as concerend as to what their preists were getting upto with kids instead of covering it up. thats more of a sin than any act between 2 consenting ppl.
 
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LOL!



So just for the record the catholic church is ok with me being not heterosexual... just as long as I don't act on it?

oh goodie in that case... I'm a nun! :wild:
 
yeah, lol, since a state of celibacy is considered highest and holiest, totally natural and not destructive at all, it certainly would be much appreciated, lol.
 
I would be a Christian if they didn't spew hate like that. It turns me right off going to church. I do believe in God, but I believe in a God that believes in love, not the hateful God that these Christians are preaching.

And transsexuals...I do believe that some people are born female in a male body, and vice versa. It's just ignorant to tell them that they should pretend to be something they're not, just to make the Catholic Church happy.
 
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if there is a gene, i wonder how come some people don't know they are gay until later? was watching this youtube on darren hayes and he said that someone who worked for him first mentioned to him that he might be gay and he at first got angry and didn't realize til later he was gay then he remembered that conversation and laughed cause they knew before he did. if it's a gene that does it... why wouldn't you always know if you are? darren was married before to a woman too. now he's married i think again, but now to a man. just wondering how if it's a genetic thing you wouldnt know.
 
if there is a gene, i wonder how come some people don't know they are gay until later? was watching this youtube on darren hayes and he said that someone who worked for him first mentioned to him that he might be gay and he at first got angry and didn't realize til later he was gay then he remembered that conversation and laughed cause they knew before he did. if it's a gene that does it... why wouldn't you always know if you are? darren was married before to a woman too. now he's married i think again, but now to a man. just wondering how if it's a genetic thing you wouldnt know.

I believe that people who are gay, and know it are in denial. He says that they knew before he did, meaning that they accepted it before he came to terms with his own sexuality. At least this is how I see it.
 
I believe that people who are gay, and know it are in denial. He says that they knew before he did, meaning that they accepted it before he came to terms with his own sexuality. At least this is how I see it.
call it social pressure! :yes:
 
Pope attacks blurring of gender

Pope Benedict XVI has said that saving humanity from homosexual or transsexual behaviour is just as important as saving the rainforest from destruction.

He explained that defending God's creation was not limited to saving the environment, but also about protecting man from self-destruction.

The Pope was delivering his end-of-year address to senior Vatican staff.

His words, later released to the media, emphasised his rejection of gender theory.

Speaking on Monday, Pope Benedict XVI warned that gender theory blurred the distinction between male and female and could thus lead to the "self-destruction" of the human race.

Gender theory
Gender theory explores sexual orientation, the roles assigned by society to individuals according to their gender, and how people perceive their biological identity.
Gay and transsexual groups, particularly in the United States, promote it as a key to understanding and tolerance, but the Pope disagreed

When the Roman Catholic Church defends God's Creation, "it does not only defend the earth, water and the air... but (it) also protects man from his own destruction," he said.
"Rainforests deserve, yes, our protection, but the human being ... does not deserve it less," the pontiff said.
It is not "out-of-date metaphysics" to "speak of human nature as 'man' or woman'", he told scores of prelates gathered in the Vatican's sumptuous Clementine Hall.
"We need something like human ecology, meant in the right way."

The Catholic Church opposes gay marriage. It teaches that while homosexuality is not sinful, homosexual acts are.

Rev Sharon Ferguson, chief executive of Britain's Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement, described the Pope's remarks as "totally irresponsible and unacceptable".

"When you have religious leaders like that making that sort of statement then followers feel they are justified in behaving in an aggressive and violent way," she said.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7796663.stm

well I am a catholic christian and a member of this church.
Let me tell you... yes the pope is might saying this but not all and everyone of us does think this way.
Unfortunately we (meaning the catholic church) are with many things many years (decades often!!!) behind social development and also research developement... that is true. We're working on that and please give us some credit, not all of us are thinking this way. And please also think of this... our pope is not elected.
Yes he is chosen by God... I do believe that while my god given mind is telling me clearly not to believe in that any human being is without fault. See it also gives me this, that often I think it's the chose pope is God challenging us... you know... like some kind of confrontation therapy?! :scratch:
Anyways I wanted to point out... not all catholic christians are living somewhere behind the moon... me and my friends do think it's meant for us to work on this... so again... please give us some time.
How did a catholic priest once tell me... "Mechi you might need to give up thinking that all of us are intelligent to the same degree."
 
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