The Gay Gene Debate

L.J

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We haven't had some serious discussion threads in a while so please lets get our brains and our passion behind some hot topics :D


I present to you the Gay Gene Debate:

July, 1993 paper in the journal Science. "Rarely before have so many reacted so loudly to so little." Hamer's paper-- "A Linkage Between DNA Markers on the X Chromosome and Male Sexual Orientation"-- had the modest ring of science, where change is often slow and incremental. But the underlying idea seemed to carry enormous implications: Homosexuality was not a choice--"the wrong choice," as many religious and political leaders have demogogued on the issue. Instead, homosexuality was as much a biological fact as eye color.
Though the outcome of the "gay gene" debate is uncertain, the very fact of the debate is evidence of great change: The prevailing scientific view of the fundamental nature of homosexuality has undergone a signficant evolution in the last several decades. Where once the scientific and medical establishment maintained an unqualified belief that homosexuality was a form of psychological deviance, today a solid majority of psychiatrists and psychologists themselves believe in biological theories (genes, brain, prenatal chemistry) over environmental or psychological theories. More scientists are getting involved in this type of genetic research, although funding has not been keeping pace with the intensity of interest.
Even at the early stages of an emerging scientific consensus around biological theories of homosexuality, it is not possible to keep politics out of the debate. In his most recent book, Simon LeVay, who has been at the center of it all--and who is gay himself--wrote of a "worrisome question" that he faces quite often: "Are the positions taken by researchers merely the expression of their own personal attitudes and prejudices--whether pro-or anti-gay--that have been dressed up in academic language. . . ?" To espouse environmental or psychodynamic theories in recent years has been to invite charges of anti-gay bias or homophobia, he notes; and biological theories seem "pro-gay." But even these political lines can be blurred: Some have worried that the "gay gene," though often seen as tied to "pro gay" politics, could become a tool of a repressive, eugenically inclined majority looking to breed out undesirable same-sex behavior. The debate continues.






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The search for the possible genetic basis of homosexuality was not new in 1993--other researchers had isolated the gene in fruit flies. But fruit flies are not human beings. And Dean Hamer, along with a brain researcher named Simon LeVay and a handful of other scientists focusing on biological and genetic causes of homosexuality, were making the leap from laboratory animals to people. Because of the perceived social, political, and cultural implications of the research, the relatively minor advances in scientific knowledge put forward by Hamer and LeVay in the early 1990s attracted extraordinary, global attention.
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No sooner do those attempting to prove the existence of a genetic basis for sexual orientation begin to clear enormous obstacles in the lab than they are hit with an objection from biology itself: Why, from an evolutionary point of view, should a "gay gene," or same-sex attractions, exist at all? Part of the answer involves an excursion into the animal world, where homosexual behaviors have been widely documented, but where explanations for this behavior vary widely. This behavior is often dismissed as a minor artifact of generally heterosexual behavior. But biologist Bruce Bagemihl has recently marshalled wide-ranging animal studies to demonstrate the evolutionary advantage for a variety of non-reproductive, same-sex sexual relationships. In this article, Richard Pillard also draws strength from examples in the animal world as he argues against the "evolutionary" objection to genetic theories of homosexuality.
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What might be the origin of biological differences underlying male sexual preference? Dean Hamer, Simon LeVay and others began to lay out their answer in scientific papers and several popular books in the early 1990s. In this article, Richard Horton, the editor of the prestigious British medical journal The Lancet, untangles the scientific claims from the social and poltical ones, offering a sober assessment on the state of the science, but not a complete refutation. And there's even a clear streak of mild admiration for the ambition and aims of those attempting to link biology and homosexuality.
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http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/genetics/




So what do you all think? Is sexual preference decided by genetics? Life style choices?
Life experiences?

Lets discuss :kickass2:



Don't stress there's no definate answer as scientist are still trying to figure this out too so everyone's point of view is welcome :D
 
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:lol: you don't have to read it hun :flowers:

That reading material is for folks who are wondering what on earth I'm taliking about :giggle:



Basically I'm asking: Is sexual preference decided by genetics? Life style choices? Life experiences? or something else?


:D
 
oh ok lmmfao..well i believe some peeps r born that way and sum peeps choose.
 
"gay gene" lol..

from the research that's currently available, i don't think anyone can make any reasonable assessment on just how much biology has an impact - no doubt it already does (influence of hormones, extreme cases of sex gene mutations etc.), but especially on how hereditary genetics or "natural" mutations play a role. and as always, the environment you're brought up in also lends a hand (and also influences your biology over time).

however, everyone is so different, the causes and scientific explanations would no doubt be varied. but whatever the findings will be, we can be assured that biology will play a big role alongside environmental factors.

i think today the important thing is to change the views of a significant many that it in the end it really doesn't matter, because waiting to give an explanation/proof to those who "need it" for acceptance can take a very long time.
 
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Linda, thanks a trillion for posting that!!!! (actually read it all :D )

Though this isn't as much a matter of opinion as it is of biology, I would incline to believe it is determined by genetics as well. I certainly disapprove of claims suggesting homosexuality is a disease or a "trend" :doh: Sexual orientation is not a matter of choice in my view, but simply a matter or being different from what society tries to portray as "normal". And I see nothing wrong in being true to yourself and wanting to live your life happily, even if that means being "different" :)

Sadly, just the other day I got an e-mail with a link to a petition - basically, it said that it was voted in the EU Parliament for gay marriages to be made legal in Europe. The petition was called "A vote for normality" and was, of course, against the decision. It really saddened me when I read it :no: I felt both sad and angry, cause I just didn't understand what harm it could cause to anyone... :( ...we're talking about people's personal lives after all...

I swear, tolerance and open-mindedness should the taught in school
 
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People are born gay, it cant be no choice, I've seen young children as young as 6, already showing blatant femine tendacies.
 
I just find it so fascinating that there's sooo many studies out trying to find if there's a determining factor to something that seems to be a naturally occuring event.
 
but does demonstrating feminie tendancies equal being gay?

I have friends who are male and also ballet dancers and so feminie that they make me feel like a bloke yet they go home to their girlfriends and are very not gay :lol: or in denial about who they are.


There's a variety of different theories out there though, one being the "gay gene" , one being that it's all to do with a person's childhood (mum cuddle him too much, mum ignore him too much), there's also the other theories on the more negative side (which have been prove wrong) things like if a child is raised by gay parents or who are around gay people a lot that they will learn the behaviour and believe it to be the right behaviour....

(Just which is right and which is wrong is probably the better question LOL, I'd like to think right = treating people respectfully, and wrong = being ignorant of others lol)
 
Though this isn't as much a matter of opinion as it is of biology, I would incline to believe it is determined by genetics as well. I certainly disapprove of claims suggesting homosexuality is a disease or a "trend" :doh: Sexual orientation is not a matter of choice in my view, but simply a matter or being different from what society tries to portray as "normal". And I see nothing wrong in being true to yourself and wanting to live your life happily, even if that means being "different" :)
true but then you also have overly camp folk and wonder just how genetic it is lol some of these minor characteristics are definitely environmental imo. that's why i think there is a ratio between the two.

Sadly, just the other day I got an e-mail with a link to a petition - basically, it said that it was voted in the EU Parliament for gay marriages to be made legal in Europe. The petition was called "A vote for normality" and was, of course, against the decision. It really saddened me when I read it :no: I felt both sad and angry, cause I just didn't understand what harm it could cause to anyone... :( ...we're talking about people's personal lives after all...

I swear, tolerance and open-mindedness should the taught in school
 
dont know if u mentioned the latest research that shows that one side of the brain in guy men and straight women is the same and the same for gay women and straight men.
 
being gay myself, i think lot of factors can play apart. Altho my uncle was gay, i dont know if that is the reason i am. i do believe influences in your life will play a part in ths and also how u live your life . its a very interesting subject actually, but i do genuinely think its down to influences and situations in your lifestyle that can ultimately guide you to your sexual preference. but again the genetic impact could also have a lot of evidence aswell.
 
I think that it is a choice, but im not sure genetics is a complictaing thing, maybe they could be a "gay gene", i dont know
but at the moment i think its a choice
 
true but then you also have overly camp folk and wonder just how genetic it is lol some of these minor characteristics are definitely environmental imo. that's why i think there is a ratio between the two.

Lol, definitely. I was saying that I'd more likely go for genetics rather than the disease/trend stories (which I've already heard too many times :doh: ) But clearly, it's more to it than genetics and other factors are involved as well. I think it only comes down to each person's true nature to decide how they're gonna react to those factors^^

L.J said:
(Just which is right and which is wrong is probably the better question LOL, I'd like to think right = treating people respectfully, and wrong = being ignorant of others lol)

:yes: :yes: :yes:
 
I'll explain it like this:
When we're born, we're told we have X and Y chromosomes, basically one male and one female... I would think that if it was like that, then we're genetically bisexual and that it's a "choice" or just "a result of how they came out the womb" that some or many young men suddenly come out the closet.

Personally I hate labels and I would think genetically or not, if you are what your sexuality tells you that you are then you can accept it and promote it positively. Me, I'm an open-minded person (freak) so that's what I am genetically.

I don't follow the straight, gay, bi rule, I just am. If I like you be it a boy or girl, I'll tell ya. I get aroused by men and women but I'm not trying to be labeled, you see what I'm saying?
 
From what I've read about it, some scientists believe that genes have a much bigger influence over behaviour than we would think. But as someone already said, genetics is such a complicated subject: more than one gene can be responsible for something or one gene can be responsible for more than action. So I guess that makes it difficult to figure these things out. What I find interesting is that even when scientists manage to identify a certain gene with a certain characteristic, they still can't necessarily determine which came first: are you a certain way because of your gene or is your gene acting a certain way because of your decision? In at least some cases it seems to work both ways around. I also read somewhere that most people are actually fundamentally supposed to be bisexual, so that under the right circumstances most people can feel attracted to people of their own sex. But I don't know how much truth there is in any of this.
 
From what I've read about it, some scientists believe that genes have a much bigger influence over behaviour than we would think. But as someone already said, genetics is such a complicated subject: more than one gene can be responsible for something or one gene can be responsible for more than action. So I guess that makes it difficult to figure these things out. What I find interesting is that even when scientists manage to identify a certain gene with a certain characteristic, they still can't necessarily determine which came first: are you a certain way because of your gene or is your gene acting a certain way because of your decision? In at least some cases it seems to work both ways around. I also read somewhere that most people are actually fundamentally supposed to be bisexual, so that under the right circumstances most people can feel attracted to people of their own sex. But I don't know how much truth there is in any of this.

True. Sex is a funny thing. You can be born wanting to be with the same sex but be brought up to be someone entirely different! :lol:

Then you have those that rather live their life loving both worlds.
 
I believe that more than anything it has to do with life experiences. One of my closest friends is gay and he himself told me that he went through things in his childhood that drove him away from women. Unlike a lot of other gays, he doesn't believe you're "born" with it. I guess his situation formed my opinion.

I don't know, I'm not buying this whole heredity thing. I don't mean to sound offensive, but my belief is that being gay is subconsciously learned. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with being gay, I simply don't care.

But it all has to do with your environment. In places where being gay is not acceptable, you tend to see a smaller number of them. For example, in the urban communities, being gay is heavily looked down upon. To quote Kanye West, the mind is formed to believe "the opposite of hip-hip is gay." When your in an environment that's like that, there's only a small minority to turn out gay. I realize there are some that don't like to announce they are, but I believe it's a small number.
 
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the only reason 'they' would even bother to find out the truth, would be to block the gene in the future. That is the only motivation for any research.

It has nothing to do with understanding us. Or creating factual information about us. 'They' want an excuse for our existence and a way to stop it from 'spreading'. 'They' dont give a shit if it is chosen or genetic, they want to stop it.

We been around forever and 'they' need to deal with their own issues and stop pasting them on our 'lifestyles.'

hip hop's take on the gay life is completely twisted. Organized religion has looked down on gays for thousands of years, if the fear of GOD has not dwindled the numbers, why would a thug rapper lifestyle deter any lustful desires ?? that is complete crap. My home life was not a gay friendly atomosphere. Nobody even knew I was gay while I was growing up. It was not until after high school that I even became completely comfortable with it. Only three people even knew that I had a boyfriend in High School... my boyfriend, his mom and my fake girlfriend.

My father would have gone ape shit had I told him. My mom, she would have loved me no matter what and I think she knew all along. Probably before I knew for certain. Being Gay or lesbian is much stronger than a sexual urge.
 
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Yeah, like if you're molested as a child: "oh no wonder you're gay"
Or like browneyedgirl said, her friend was turned off by women so "oh that's why you're gay"

Me personally, it don't make no sense. Gays have been around since the Bible and they're not going anywhere. The thing is we've been programmed to act dumb and stupid and try to say that "gays don't have rights" when that's just idiocy at its finest. How hypocritical you can be if you allow blacks and women to vote yet gay people can't marry? HUH?! WTF is that all about?

Like Chichi said, they're always trying to find reasons about why you are who you are but I guess not everybody believes it.
 
i have to protest against Chich's paranoia of scientists lol i think sexual orientation is an interesting topic to research and there is no "gay gene" that can be blocked as it's clearly not that simple nor global for each person.

Timmy i like your "freak" open mindedness on this issue and i'd love to claim the same as you (and live in a bisexual world - the more the merrier lol) but i have yet to be sexually attracted to a bloke - the X and Y chromosome ideology wouldn't quite work since differences in hormone balance between male/female would be the more logical and direct explanation - and even that doesn't quite explain someone's orientation (plus, "normal" women have XX sex chromosomes). i think people are born differently in this sense and not exactly bisexual by nature since there's nothing to explain such a utopia lol
 
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Yeah I guess it ain't simple as black and white but hell, I honestly could give a damn what I am. :lol: Other than healthy, happy, and a human being. :lol:
 
People are born gay, it cant be no choice, I've seen young children as young as 6, already showing blatant femine tendacies.

fem tendacies does not mean they are gay or will be gay. I have many masculine male friends that are gay/bi and u wud never kno unless they told u.

A woman i work with was very attracted to men but when she was 20, she started developing feelings for women and 20yrs later they r still 2gether..so yes i think its either a choice or u can be born that way
 
i think it's a hormone thing...someone remind me where i got this from.....ack a study done w/ preg. women....

if the woman was preg w/ a boy and her estrogen level was too high or higher than average, the boy turned out to be homosexual.

if the woman was preg. w /a girl and her estrogen level was too low, the girl was homosexual...it was like 100% of the women who were in the study had results like that where as teh women w/ normal hormone levels had straight children.
 
the only reason 'they' would even bother to find out the truth, would be to block the gene in the future. That is the only motivation for any research.


I don't believe this to be true. It's just the inquiring nature of science to find the how what and why of everything. Although granted there probably are some sinister people out there who do have that goal (like nazi scientists worked on racial experiments etc).

I guess the more genes scientist can identify will aid in the battling of diseases and things.
 
My father would have gone ape shit had I told him. My mom, she would have loved me no matter what and I think she knew all along. Probably before I knew for certain. Being Gay or lesbian is much stronger than a sexual urge.
So your folks dont know?
 
People are born gay, it cant be no choice, I've seen young children as young as 6, already showing blatant femine tendacies.

What? so cause i played with cars and predominantly "male" toys I'm supposed to be gay? I hated Barbie's with a passion! I would also prefer to go rock climbing than to go out shopping and stuff like that.
 
'they' in my comments. refers to the people funding the research, not the scientists or researchers.

Yes, my parents know now... I have made them grandparents :lol: EVERYONE knows now :chichi: :lol: I carry it very proudly.
 
'they' in my comments. refers to the people funding the research, not the scientists or researchers.

Yes, my parents know now... I have made them grandparents :lol: EVERYONE knows now :chichi: :lol: I carry it very proudly.



... wait... you're gay :mello:



*waits to be beaten to death with rainbow flag*


:girl_haha:
 
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'they' in my comments. refers to the people funding the research, not the scientists or researchers.
well if powers that be found a way to induce homosexuality (like in US's warfare plans) then they can probably already suppress it.
 
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