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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

I feel assumptions are what’s ultimately driving misinformation on the vault. Just because this song was on a couple lists, and just because MJ was still working on that song in 2009, doesn’t mean anything as far as completion goes. I believe firmly that there are more releasable tracks than we’re immediately aware of, but presumptions aren’t helping the already copious amount of confusion.
Pollonio said:
But later in this thread, we had another information : Joe Vogel talk to Michael Prince and Prince said to Vogel there are five Invincible outtakes produced by Rodney Jerkins and releasable. If my memory is good we have some titles of this possible songs : GYWOOM, Kick It, Pressure, The Pain.
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My immediate question would be, was MP taking into account the MJ/Jerkins outtakes we’ve already heard (“We’ve Had Enough,” “Escape,” and “Get Your Weight Off of Me”)? Are any of those tracks reworked versions of older demos (specifically the rumored update of “Cheater”)?

That’s the issue I’ve always had with these interviews and the drip-feed of information from certain sources: they ask a very base-level question and never expand further, leaving fans to speculate and jump to conclusions. Someone needs to sit with these producers, go through their archives, and write something that actually sets the record straight.
 
Yeah people are coming up with all sorts of explanations but the sad reality is that there isn't much left from HIStory and afterwards. A considerable amount of titles from Invincible aren't confirmed to exist and although it was an era full of outtakes, most of the songs got released already. And now we're left with instrumentals and writer's demos.

Same goes for the 2000's era, Brad Buxer himself said that there isn't a lot from that era because MJ didn't feel like recording so there's no reason to believe the Estate are withholding songs, otherwise we wouldn't have ended up with the Cascio tracks on the Michael album. Most we're going to get, if lucky, is 2 songs as Michael Prince said there's only 3 tracks that MJ finished recording in 2008 (Best Of Joy, I Was The Loser and the other track is unnamed).
 
ChanceToDance said:
Most we're going to get, if lucky, is 2 songs as Michael Prince said there's only 3 tracks that MJ finished recording in 2008 (Best Of Joy, I Was The Loser and the other track is unnamed).
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I’ve always suspected that the unnamed track was “Hollywood Tonight.” Somebody (Joe Vogel?) said additional ad-libs and background vocals were recorded during those sessions. I hope not, but with our luck it was.
 
AlwaysThere said:
I’ve always suspected that the unnamed track was “Hollywood Tonight.” Somebody (Joe Vogel?) said additional ad-libs and background vocals were recorded during those sessions. I hope not, but with our luck it was.
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Probably not, the bridge and the third verse weren't recorded so the song wasn't vocally finished by any means. Hopefuly it's a new track or an old track that wasn't completely developed.
 
It absolutely baffles me that the estate isn’t interested in working on an anthology project, consisting of unfinished demos, outtakes and such; they undoubtedly have enough material for  multiple volumes, and before anyone starts running their mouth, telling me that a project like that wouldn’t be commercially viable, that’s complete bullshit lol; just look at how well The Beatles’ anthology project did commercially.
 
Gluepix said:
It absolutely baffles me that the estate isn’t interested in working on an anthology project, consisting of unfinished demos, outtakes and such; they undoubtedly have enough material for  multiple volumes, and before anyone starts running their mouth, telling me that a project like that wouldn’t be commercially viable, that’s complete bullshit lol; just look at how well The Beatles’ anthology project did commercially.
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Someone should e-mail the Estate like it was done about the T40 documentary and bring up those points and see what they'd have to say. Who knows? Maybe we'll be met with another condescending e-mail.
 
ChanceToDance said:
Someone should e-mail the Estate like it was done about the T40 documentary and bring up those points and see what they'd have to say. Who knows? Maybe we'll be met with another condescending e-mail.
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I'm sure the vast majority of us would adore such a project, right? I don’t understand why they think it’d somehow “tarnish” Michael’s reputation as a perfectionist or something? I personally think a project like that would make us appreciate him and his music much further.
 
Gluepix said:
I'm sure the vast majority of us would adore such a project, right? I don’t understand why they think it’d somehow “tarnish” Michael’s reputation as a perfectionist or something? I personally think a project like that would make us appreciate him and his music much further.
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I know I've said before that they'd have no interest in doing an anthology as they're not very interested in demos and wouldn't reach out to the audience they want, but technically it shouldn't be a problem for them, they have no issue in releasing mumbled songs as they've released DBMR, Free, the demo of BTM with an unfinished vocal take and WALWTG. It also shouldn't be a problem when it's something MJ has also done in life.

I'm thinking that the only chance this might happen is when the Estate runs out of vocally finished/partially finished songs and God knows when that's going to be.
 
Gluepix said:
It absolutely baffles me that the estate isn’t interested in working on an anthology project, consisting of unfinished demos, outtakes and such; they undoubtedly have enough material for  multiple volumes, and before anyone starts running their mouth, telling me that a project like that wouldn’t be commercially viable, that’s complete bullshit lol; just look at how well The Beatles’ anthology project did commercially.
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Given that most of the stuff on Thriller 40 is sourced from cassettes, rather that the higher quality formats that those songs undoubtedly exist on, I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't bothered with any significant archiving initiative.
 
JohnC said:
Given that most of the stuff on Thriller 40 is sourced from cassettes, rather that the higher quality formats that those songs undoubtedly exist on, I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't bothered with any significant archiving initiative.
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Is that why “Love Never Felt So Good” and “This Is It” are in noticeably shittier quality, as well? Did the estate not bother to source them from the masters (which I assume are under Anka’s possession), but rather crappy cassettes?
 
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Gluepix said:
Is that why “Love Never Felt So Good” and “This Is It” are in noticeably shittier quality, as well? Did the estate not bother to source them from the masters (which I assume are under Anka’s possession), but rather crappy cassettes?
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Probably.

Those songs were undoubtedly recorded on multitrack tape and were likely mixed down to two-track tape, from which cassette copies were made. And it's likely the same case for many of the songs that ended up on Thriller 40.

Are we really supposed to believe that the master tapes or multitracks for most of MJ's unreleased songs from that period don't exist anymore? That just reeks of negligence - and not necessarily on Michael's part or those in his camp at the time.
 
JohnC said:
Probably.

Those songs were undoubtedly recorded on multitrack tape and were likely mixed down to two-track tape, from which cassette copies were made. And it's likely the same case for many of the songs that ended up on Thriller 40.

Are we really supposed to believe that the master tapes or multitracks for most of MJ's unreleased songs from that period don't exist anymore? That just reeks of negligence - and not necessarily on Michael's part or those in his camp at the time.
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That should explain why Michael’s vocals on Anka’s version of “This Is It” sound so much better, since he has the master of that song, as well as the masters of “Love Never Felt So Good” and “Don’t Matter To Me”.
 
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SmoothCriminal1995 said:
God if there's a complete version of Ghost Of Another Lover, I'd lose my mind.
That demo sounds incredible as it is, even in the low quality leak we have
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Screenshot-2023-05-04-22-27-58-80-965bbf4d18d205f782c6b8409c5773a4.jpg


Yes! There is a more complete version of that song...
This disc is from the material collected from LaToyas husband robbery after MJ's passing in 2009...
 
Gluepix said:
It absolutely baffles me that the estate isn’t interested in working on an anthology project, consisting of unfinished demos, outtakes and such; they undoubtedly have enough material for  multiple volumes, and before anyone starts running their mouth, telling me that a project like that wouldn’t be commercially viable, that’s complete bullshit lol; just look at how well The Beatles’ anthology project did commercially.
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As much as I’d love this, I feel like it will quite literally never happen. The current executors don’t seem to care about such material, and when MJ’s kids take over it stands to reason that they’ll abide by their father’s policy of “don’t let the world hear unfinished music” and stick to reissues, documentaries, so on and so forth. I’d love to be wrong, but I can fully see Prince opting to stand by what MJ did rather than what he left behind.
 
It sucks that leaks are the only way for us to get new content but what can you do about it 🤷‍♂️
 
AlwaysThere said:
As much as I’d love this, I feel like it will quite literally never happen. The current executors don’t seem to care about such material, and when MJ’s kids take over it stands to reason that they’ll abide by their father’s policy of “don’t let the world hear unfinished music” and stick to reissues, documentaries, so on and so forth. I’d love to be wrong, but I can fully see Prince opting to stand by what MJ did rather than what he left behind.
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I hope they eventually have a change of heart, if that’s the case.
 
Gluepix said:
I hope they eventually have a change of heart, if that’s the case.
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I agree. I can understand every position when it comes to handling MJ’s vault, but there’s no clear answer because he never really addressed it in a will or in interviews. Selfishly I want everything released, but realistically I feel like they’re in a no win situation.
 
AlwaysThere said:
I agree. I can understand every position when it comes to handling MJ’s vault, but there’s no clear answer because he never really addressed it in a will or in interviews. Selfishly I want everything released, but realistically I feel like they’re in a no win situation.
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I think it’s smarter (from a business perspective), to release everything and make some profit off of it, rather than let it all rot in a vault, never to see the light of day.
 
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AlwaysThere said:
I feel assumptions are what’s ultimately driving misinformation on the vault. Just because this song was on a couple lists, and just because MJ was still working on that song in 2009, doesn’t mean anything as far as completion goes. I believe firmly that there are more releasable tracks than we’re immediately aware of, but presumptions aren’t helping the already copious amount of confusion.

My immediate question would be, was MP taking into account the MJ/Jerkins outtakes we’ve already heard (“We’ve Had Enough,” “Escape,” and “Get Your Weight Off of Me”)? Are any of those tracks reworked versions of older demos (specifically the rumored update of “Cheater”)?

That’s the issue I’ve always had with these interviews and the drip-feed of information from certain sources: they ask a very base-level question and never expand further, leaving fans to speculate and jump to conclusions. Someone needs to sit with these producers, go through their archives, and write something that actually sets the record straight.
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For me, We've Had Enough is not an unreleased outtake.
About the Invincible outtake, there are 10 unreleased songs registered on ASCAP/BMI, including 2 Rodney Jerkins songs (Pressure and The Pain). The other are Seduction, Thank Heaven (according to Damien Shields its not complete), and some tracks work with Teddy Riley.
Agree with you, we must ask accurate questions to the people involved in the creative process: musicans, producers...
 
Pollonio said:
For me, We've Had Enough is not an unreleased outtake.
About the Invincible outtake, there are 10 unreleased songs registered on ASCAP/BMI, including 2 Rodney Jerkins songs (Pressure and The Pain). The other are Seduction, Thank Heaven (according to Damien Shields its not complete), and some tracks work with Teddy Riley.
Agree with you, we must ask accurate questions to the people involved in the creative process: musicans, producers...
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Are you sure pressure a d the pain registered and seduction ?
 
Splash! We Can Get Wet Babe"Michael Jackson
Joe Jackson Danny de Pree Brack Danny Brack Jr.
  • Recorded in 1988
 
SWCGWB isn't even real at all. For one, why would Michael Jackson willingly work with his father? No really, given how he fired Joe years ago, one would think he'd know better than to work with Joe again (and no, the whole Moonie-Jacksons debacle does not count).
 
Lotfi11k said:
Splash! We Can Get Wet Babe"Michael Jackson
Joe Jackson Danny de Pree Brack Danny Brack Jr.
  • Recorded in 1988
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When exactly in 1988 would Michael have had the time to record a song? Making up song titles is the passion of some people, it seems.
 
Gluepix said:
It absolutely baffles me that the estate isn’t interested in working on an anthology project, consisting of unfinished demos, outtakes and such; they undoubtedly have enough material for  multiple volumes, and before anyone starts running their mouth, telling me that a project like that wouldn’t be commercially viable, that’s complete bullshit lol; just look at how well The Beatles’ anthology project did commercially.
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Because they have no clue probably about anything about MJ's demos and most of them probably are unreleasable. They simply care about drip feeding re hashed stuff and a lot of the things like Man in Black etc were co produced written by other artists so unlikely to be released due to that fact. If in fact they exist at all. Bare in mind MJ wanted very little to do with his family when he was alive as he seen them as money grabbers ( Victory Tour, Seoul 1989 concerts ( which didnt happen) so it is likely the estate do not even access to a lot of material that is unheard .
 
Splash is listed in Korgnex's list, as well as another song with Joe , Seven Bright New Stars. Someone should ask him the source.
 
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