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Teddy Riley.......My Verdict!!! He was no good!!!

Yes I would have to disagree. I think that MJ Teddy Riley combination was a good one. The songs where Teddy produced where the best songs on the album. All those songs were ahead of their time. It gave MJ a new sound. That album MJ was the most creative you really have to listen to album. People get too caught up on MJ from one angle!
 
mjdvds said:
I'll tell ya what, Dangerous wasn't a commercial album??????? mmmmmm when has Michael not strived to make a commercial album so in that perspective you are infact contradicting your self in saying it did not reach that goal?

Also one more thing, you talk Bullshit mate, you dont even know what your chatting about, let me quote you twice just now

You just posted
"far less commercial than Bad but it succeded to reach the 30 million copies only 2 million less than Bad and you say Bad overtook Dangerous ????????let me laugh !!!!"

Earlier in the thread you posted
"When Dangerous first was released it out sold BAD.. an album produced with QUINCY JONES.. Yes, with sale boosts Bad over reached dangerous again."

I think you need to stop arguing with yourself before bringing anything else up, I have listened to these songs I have disected them, filtered inside out, Even found the vocoder on She Drives Me Wild, which NO ONE had heard before, so dont think i just waltzed into making this thread, you obviously did with those 2 quotes above me.........the end
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I dont even understand what you are saying .
You need to see again who was the poster who posted the second part , that even was not me man .....i think you are a bit tired or sick ....


Where is the problem ??? that NOBODY heard about these songs ??? and so what ????????? the 30 million of people who bought album dont you think they know these songs ???

How many people of the new generation know "Speed Demond" , "Another part of me" , "just good friends" HOW MANY IF ONLY THE FANS ????????????? man i think you are kidding , isnt it normal that if michael didnt realease those 3 songs (of Dangerous) you are talking about , people who didnt buy this album could not know about them ???? am i dreaming or you are just stupid ??? .



YES i reapeat Dangerous IS FAR LESS COMMERCIAL THAN Bad .

With Bad michael was under pressure because of Thriller , he had to absolutely do an excellent performance regarding the sales of the album ., he couldnt allow himself to sell songs not easy to listen to like (she drives me willd etc...) , the best way to sell the album was to put easier , dont get me wrong but
"another part of me" although i adore it ,is a bit weak man , and what about liberian girl , YES wonderful songs i know but so much weak musicaly speaking ,and what about Leave me alone , again extra to listen to , .... but easy and weak .....

And let's talk about the performance , you say Bad overtook Dangerous ...............a???and didnt Thriller overtake Bad ???? Bad sold 30 million less than Thriller man ......how can you explain since you are so hooked at the sales , since to you if Dangerous sold only 2 million less than Bad it is because the album was bader, what a piece of ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .

And comparing to VINC .

Bad realeased : Bad , TWYMMF , another part of me , liberian girl , Dirty Diana , Smooth Criminal , Man in the mirror , Leave me alone , .....actually 8 tracks on 10 , PLUS MOONWALKER the moovie which support the album , 2 FULLY YEARS of promotion , PLUS A BIG world tour which lasted also 2 years
and you dare to compare it with VINC are you realy kidding ???

VINC : YRMW and CRY AND .......... actually nothing else , 3 month of promotion against 2 years .

I think you need to rest a bit ...
 
are we taking commercial to mean something bad here?

you can be very commercial and still have a significantlyunique edge. Dangerous was just that - the NJS tracks were nowhere near your ordinary new jack tunes.
 
mjdvds said:
See again I have to disagree simply from the point that the Teddy songs from dangerous are the most outdated from any mj album and it is not ahead of its time in the slightest hear are the reasons

1: New Jack is DEAD why would Teddy front the new jack revival in 2006 if it was still strong and still an influence, he tried the revival it didn't work, the vast majority didn't want it, Teddy then filed 11 bankrupcy charges, the revival failed, The current NJS4eva page fronts the next gig at a Bar opposite Camden Station in London

2: How many Riley dangerous songs have been covered or sampled and have been a success? Off The Wall tracks & thriller tracks are sampled to this day with great success, and even the synth sounds used on bad are similar to many Electro track nowadays, plus the songs still being played today and covered on shows like Pop Idol and so on

3: Basslines, I always think Michael is the real king of basslines, he works alot of tracks around them, listen to Billie Jean, thriller, beat it, DSTYGE, OTW, Bad, TWYMMF the list is endless where the basslines are great..........what about the Riley tracks no decent basslines except maybe Remember The Time, but 99% of me knows that was all MJ, Michael even started adding a bassline into JAM in the later Dangerous Tour shows which made the song sound so much better

All In All, in its day it was fresh sounding, a risk that worked for a while that sound is gone, I hear people say Invincible was ahead of its time, its not it was over produced and is barely recognised by the public today

Take a step back from being a fan and look at these albums and think of the singles released

Off The Wall
Thriller
Bad
Dangerous
HIStory
Invincible

Michael is most remembered for????????/
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why don't you just leave it alone?

you don't like it, OK.

it is well known that Dangerous is the fans' favorite album.

And also, Michael is best known and recognized for his 80's music for OTHER reasons. Personal bs that ppl believe in.

It takes all sorts. So just let it be. It's OK to have an opinion,but don't push it to somebody...


J5master said:
Well the synthesizer sound of the 80s that MJ incoporated in Bad died as well so there for, Quincy (at that time i suppose) was no good? meh.

Good music is good music period. Even if it ages. I still hear RTT on the radio. And "better selling singles" doesn't always mean BETTER period.
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Yeah and sometimes music that is not sold that much is the best.

Cuz if it were like that, then CRANK DAT SOULJA BOY should be , the best song???
 
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mjdvds said:
I knew opening this thread would cause alot of controversy, I am not slating the songs, because the lyrics on all are amazing but mj wrote them but seriously look at this!!!
songs Riley didn't touch.....

Heal The World
Black Or White
Who Is It
Give Into Me
Will You Be There
Keep The Faith
Gone Too Soon

Now Rileys

Jam
Can't Let Her Get Away
In The Closet
She Drives Me Wild
Remember The Time
Can't Let Her Get Away
Dangerous

Honestly, look at the list at the top and the ones above and compare them????? All I am saying is why the hell are all the Riley songs weak?? chart wise and lasting wise, how many riley songs do you hear played today? comaped to the "non" riley songs, I love Jam and so on but I am seriously thinking about why Michael great lyris and stuff dont get heard anymore, and the only thing I get to is Rileys editing
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110% agree!
 
arXter said:
are we taking commercial to mean something bad here?

you can be very commercial and still have a significantlyunique edge. Dangerous was just that - the NJS tracks were nowhere near your ordinary new jack tunes.
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No i dont say a commercial album is a bad album , i say if people (the general public) prefer Bad , thats because Bad is easier to listen to compared to Dangerous . Dangerous is a bit darker , see the video "Who is it?" or "In the closet " nothing to do with the usual videos he made for Bad , Bad a is light album compared to Dangerous . Musicaly speaking the sounds of Dangerous are more reasearched , he tried to do something very differnt , something not easy to listen to , sounds which dont fit with the Radios sounds and he perfectely reached his goal specificaly with these 3 tracks , to hear those 3 tracks you have to buy the album ,because you would never hear these kind of songs on radios , not enough commercial to them , to difficult to accès contrary to the Bad songs ....

BAD is a fantastic album , fantastic YES but/and also commercial almost ALL the tracks of the Bad album are fit/fashioned for commercial , which was not the case case for Dangerous .

I can say , in the Dangerous album there is only 3 commercial songs "Heal the world " , "Black or white" and well....may i say "Jam" hmmm not sure but on 14 songs it is very light . Despite of that he almost succeeded to reach the performance of Bad with 30 million copies (32 million for Bad ) 7 million in the US (8 million for Bad ) ....so please stop the stupid argument that "Bad" overtook " Dangerous " its completely false .

(Arxter ) i agree with you , i dont understand why people say those 3 tracks were not good because the NJS was dead . When i listen to them they are nowhere near the New Jack style , nothing do to , just because they were produced by Teddy Ryley doesnt mean its NJS sound , i think people are able to create other sounds than the sound they belong to , Will I AM do RNB music , but when he worked with James Brown the sound had nothing to do with RNB people are more intelligent than that man .

I know Teddy Ryley , i know his sounds , the artists he produced in the 80 's and beginning of the 90 's , my mate has got ALL albums of artists produced by Teddy Reyley here at home , always listenning to them and THAT WAS NJS . But with michael SORRY BUT NOTHING TO DO WITH NJS , if you think that surely you dont know nothing about NJS , i would say you never listen to this kind of music .(message for dvdmj..) .


PS : dont get wrong i love the Bad album , its an extraordinary album but please stop saying bullshit album the Dangerous album , if you dont like it that's you , but stop thinking you are the gospel .
 
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guys, we gotta come to relize there is no reason to argue the point Dangerous was good, and Teddy Riley was a good asset..

I mean the title of the thread says it all.. 'My verdict!!! He was no good!!!'

That does not sound like being interested on changing mind.. The VERDICT is done before we started. CASE CLOSED yet we still try to prove other wise..


I know I did it too, but there aint no point now.. lol!

A person that had a verdict BEFORE starting a thread about it will not budge.. Well at least the amount of energy to convince some1 to budge at that point is not worth it.
 
Yea I disagree with this statement. Most of those songs were on the charts. Those tracks weren't dated I remember listening to the radio and when a MJ song came on NOBODY had the sound like MJ and TR. Also, you had to look MJ was coming down from his success from the 80s. As well, The abuse scandal of 93' really damaged his career.
 
serena williams said:
I dont even understand what you are saying .
You need to see again who was the poster who posted the second part , that even was not me man .....i think you are a bit tired or sick ....
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Did I actually quote you.............no, so start chatting some sense ;)
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And yes it was my verdict on the situation, but it did cause quite a good discussion, all I have to say is that yes, it might be the fans favourite album but people need to stop thinking like a fan, lets face it Michael will never be remembered by the general public for any of the Riley songs in whole, maybe Rememer the time but that would be low on a list people could name

What is Michael if he can't be remembered? huh, all I was trying to say is that today, those songs are not greats in the mainstream what are the songs most people name of Michael Jackson?

Billie Jean
Beat It
Thriller
Bad
Smooth Criminal
Man In The Mirror
Black Or White
Heal The World
So on..............

There is a big void of rememberance from the Riley songs, I feel (and yes I said "I") But coming from the U.K where we didn't really got the "new jack" thing and never really have, it seems a rational point of view, I just regret Michael not taking on a different sound one which would last like "If You Don't Love Me" that sounds great today, what if he took that kinda rockabilly/RnB/Pop/whatever sound because that was worthy of a place on dangerous, over some songss, but thats HIStory now :timer:
 
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The abuse scandal of 93' really damaged his career.
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in america maybe but even that can be argued against with the success of scream and yana b4 problems started with mottola
 
[I just regret Michael not taking on a different sound one which would last like "If You Don't Love Me"/QUOTE]

that songs terrible imo. the whole song is if u dont love me repeated after each other for 4 minutes lol
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^ well the fact it was effected negitvally cannot really be argued but...


how bad, YES!!

to the extent it was effected can be argued.. But something like that will always have reprecusions..

And that's EVERYWHERE.. Ya he's had great hits afterwords, but how much bigger would those big hits be if the '93 allegations happened..

Maybe HIStory would have sold 25 million instead of 18. We don't know...
 
of course but just saying it really damaged his career is to open to interpretation. for example in the UK mj had his biggest ever hits after 03 so didnt effect him that much there.

scream became the highest charting single in the usa then yana broke that record by entering at number one.how much more successful could he have been interms of that? he couldnt have
 
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elusive moonwalker said:
[I just regret Michael not taking on a different sound one which would last like "If You Don't Love Me"/QUOTE]

that songs terrible imo. the whole song is if u dont love me repeated after each other for 4 minutes lol
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Yes it does get a bit repetative, but eaxh "if you dont love me" is sung differently and not looped so its less annoying, I just love the screaming in the song, plus we dont know id it was ever finished, alot of songs were not, plus the one from the acetate is remastered well
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Well , with all due respect, America turned its back to Michael more than Europe did. Not the fans, but generally.
 
mjdvds said:
Did I actually quote you.............no, so start chatting some sense ;)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And yes it was my verdict on the situation, but it did cause quite a good discussion, all I have to say is that yes, it might be the fans favourite album but people need to stop thinking like a fan, lets face it Michael will never be remembered by the general public for any of the Riley songs in whole, maybe Rememer the time but that would be low on a list people could name

What is Michael if he can't be remembered? huh, all I was trying to say is that today, those songs are not greats in the mainstream what are the songs most people name of Michael Jackson?

Billie Jean
Beat It
Thriller
Bad
Smooth Criminal
Man In The Mirror
Black Or White
Heal The World
So on..............

There is a big void of rememberance from the Riley songs, I feel (and yes I said "I") But coming from the U.K where we didn't really got the "new jack" thing and never really have, it seems a rational point of view, I just regret Michael not taking on a different sound one which would last like "If You Don't Love Me" that sounds great today, what if he took that kinda rockabilly/RnB/Pop/whatever sound because that was worthy of a place on dangerous, over some songss, but thats HIStory now :timer:
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DO YOU EVER READ YOUR POSTS ???????????? you quoted me man ..... you said i was in contradiction blah blah blah just BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!


And what are you talking about ???? just because the general public dont remember the Dangerous album means it is a bad album ?? i think you need to grow up man ..

YES NEED TO GROW UP AND STICK BY YOURSELF !! ,because if the Bad album is your favorite just because the general public remember it more than Dangerous man you only prove you have a FREAKING lack of personnality .
Just Because Thriller is the most famous one means one should prefer Thriller ????????? what a piece of ****!!!!!!!!

I DONT HAVE TO FACE TO SOMETHING BECAUSE I AM A FAN ,I JUST HAVE TO FACE TO MY OWN TASTES . So i wont say i prefer Thriller or BAD just because the general public prefer them , i am not like you , i know who i am and where i come from , NOBODY WOULD TELL ME WHAT I HAVE TO LIKE IN MUSIC .

i mean i dont see the link between a good quality album and the general public tastes , people who dont almost know nothing about MJ's music .


Dangerous IS the best album of michael PERIOD (to me of course) .
 
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serena williams said:
DO YOU EVER READ YOUR POSTS ???????????? you quoted me man ..... you said i was in contradiction blah blah blah just BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!


And what are you talking about ???? just because the general public dont remember the Dangerous album means it is a bad album ?? i think you need to grow up man ..

YES NEED TO GROW UP AND STICK BY YOURSELF !! ,because if the Bad album is your favorite just because the general public remember it more than Dangerous man you only prove you have a FREAKING lack of personnality .
Just Because Thriller is the most famous one means one should prefer Thriller ????????? what a piece of ****!!!!!!!!

I DONT HAVE TO FACE TO SOMETHING BECAUSE I AM A FAN ,I JUST HAVE TO FACE TO MY OWN TASTES . So i wont say i prefer Thriller or BAD just because the general public prefer them , i am not like you , i know who i am and where i come from , NOBODY WOULD TELL ME WHAT I HAVE TO LIKE IN MUSIC .

i mean i dont see the link between a good quality album and the general public tastes , people who dont almost know nothing about MJ's music .


Dangerous IS the best album of michael PERIOD (to me of course) .
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First of all I really think you need to take that tennis racket out from where it is, because that seems to be the problem or your CAPS lock button its broke.

second of all this kinda turned into a mellow discussion after everyone threw their facts into the circle, plus i think you missing the point here.!

I am not addressing this thread to you as you say " I DONT HAVE TO FACE TO SOMETHING BECAUSE I AM A FAN ,I JUST HAVE TO FACE TO MY OWN TASTES"
I am addressing it to the whole board, and as you say " just because the general public dont remember the Dangerous album means it is a bad album" and also "because if the Bad album is your favorite just because the general public remember it more than Dangerous man you only prove you have a FREAKING lack of personnality"

Okay so the above means, you have just accepted the fact that Bad is more well known than dangerous, which i have been pointing out all along!!!!!! HELLO??? and also you are also saying that everyone who remembers Bad more than Dangerous has Lack of personality, well I guess about 99.9% of the world lack personality

Aswell as saying I had lack of personality you inadvertently accused most the world of the same thing HAAAAAAAAAA damn that is personality 110% miss Serena named after a tennis player!

Now if you wanna carry on this banter, PM me or my msn is mjdvds@aol.com

I will be posting some vocoder snippets from "she drives me wild" soon which i found inside the track, there is a vocoder mix on the acetate for she drives me wild, but it can't be heard on the actual song, this means teddy must have left it in the background or must have turned it down somewhat on his mixing deck, but just enough for us to hear, which was one of the reasons i made this thread and was a mistake in the song itself to leave them in, sort of :D
 
Too be honest, I was wrong in what I said about Dangerous in a way because, Bad my favourite Album, who remembers that more than Thriller huh? Like I said before this was a personal feeling about the album and yes alot of other people posted their feelings, thats good, thats a community, but I dont wanna be hacked down for speaking out about a situation i felt i needed to talk about.

like I said its a public forum and all feedback is taken in, I just wonder whether anyone dares opening a "Thriller.......My Verdict!!!!!Quincy was bad!!!! thread lol
 
it's all opinion... lol!


NO IT'S THE BEST.... NO IT'S NOT!!!


we can do that all day, for days.. infact we have..


I would say if Teddy was a bad asset the album would not have sold 30 million copies..

But what do I know, I'm just a fan.. The Verdict has been in before the thread got started, and the JUDGE has spoken..





CASE CLOSED!!


And that's............................... FINALL
^ Those who get that part, are wrestling fans~
 
mjdvds said:
First of all I really think you need to take that tennis racket out from where it is, because that seems to be the problem or your CAPS lock button its broke.

second of all this kinda turned into a mellow discussion after everyone threw their facts into the circle, plus i think you missing the point here.!

I am not addressing this thread to you as you say " I DONT HAVE TO FACE TO SOMETHING BECAUSE I AM A FAN ,I JUST HAVE TO FACE TO MY OWN TASTES"
I am addressing it to the whole board, and as you say " just because the general public dont remember the Dangerous album means it is a bad album" and also "because if the Bad album is your favorite just because the general public remember it more than Dangerous man you only prove you have a FREAKING lack of personnality"

Okay so the above means, you have just accepted the fact that Bad is more well known than dangerous, which i have been pointing out all along!!!!!! HELLO??? and also you are also saying that everyone who remembers Bad more than Dangerous has Lack of personality, well I guess about 99.9% of the world lack personality

Aswell as saying I had lack of personality you inadvertently accused most the world of the same thing HAAAAAAAAAA damn that is personality 110% miss Serena named after a tennis player!

Now if you wanna carry on this banter, PM me or my msn is mjdvds@aol.com

I will be posting some vocoder snippets from "she drives me wild" soon which i found inside the track, there is a vocoder mix on the acetate for she drives me wild, but it can't be heard on the actual song, this means teddy must have left it in the background or must have turned it down somewhat on his mixing deck, but just enough for us to hear, which was one of the reasons i made this thread and was a mistake in the song itself to leave them in, sort of :D
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I dont accuse the whole world I AM TALKING TO YOU !!!

Who the hell are you to say to the fans who prefer Dangerous TO FACE TO THE REALITY ???

Do you read your posts ? you said that its obvious the work with Quincy was better than the work with Teddy , and why ? your response is : Because Bad is more famous than Dangerous , and Yes i respond PIECE OF **** !!, i dont care and i wont PM you OK ?

If you want i will change "I" by the "the fans who prefer Dangerous" : "The fans who prefer Dangerous DONT HAVE TO FACE SOMETHING ,THEY HAVE TO FACE TO THEIR TASTES ONLY " .

The general public prefer Bad because Bad is most famous than Dangerous ,yeah even if Dangerous sold more than 30 million copies . But it is not the same thing than YOU , the whole public dont know almost NOTHING about mike's music , so dont compare them to you because among the whole public there are certainly million of people who have some personality , if they like Bad that only becasue they dont know nothing else , how do you know they would'n prefer Dangerous if they would buy and listen to the album ??


I dont say the whole public has a lack of personnality , i cannot blame people who dont know NOTHING about mike's music , i say YOU HAVE A FREACKING LACK OF PERSONALITY ! , beacsue hey prefering an album just because this album is most famous than another is nothing else than stupid .


PS: leave Williams where she is i dont see the point with her .
 
serena williams said:
I dont accuse the whole world I AM TALKING TO YOU !!!

Who the hell are you to say to the fans who prefer Dangerous TO FACE TO THE REALITY ???

Do you read your posts ? you said that its obvious the work with Quincy was better than the work with Teddy , and why ? your response is : Because Bad is more famous than Dangerous , and Yes i respond PIECE OF **** !!, i dont care and i wont PM you OK ?

If you want i will change "I" by the "the fans who prefer Dangerous" : "The fans who prefer Dangerous DONT HAVE TO FACE SOMETHING ,THEY HAVE TO FACE TO THEIR TASTES ONLY " .

The general public prefer Bad because Bad is most famous than Dangerous ,yeah even if Dangerous sold more than 30 million copies . But it is not the same thing than YOU , the whole public dont know almost NOTHING about mike's music , so dont compare them to you because among the whole public there are certainly million of people who have some personality , if they like Bad that only becasue they dont know nothing else , how do you know they would'n prefer Dangerous if they would buy and listen to the album ??


I dont say the whole public has a lack of personnality , i cannot blame people who dont know NOTHING about mike's music , i say YOU HAVE A FREACKING LACK OF PERSONALITY ! , beacsue hey prefering an album just because this album is most famous than another is nothing else than stupid .


PS: leave Williams where she is i dont see the point with her .
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LOL X1000............ I never said I preferred Bad cuz it is more famous, I preffered bad because I feel the music was alot stronger and more consistant throughout the album, you are just making little things up in your head now

And to say someone has a lack of personality over a simple choice of which music they like is in itself a very immature gesture, I mean, You dont know me, but hey you are the judge of all judges yes??????
 
mjdvds said:
like I said its a public forum and all feedback is taken in, I just wonder whether anyone dares opening a "Thriller.......My Verdict!!!!!Quincy was bad!!!! thread lol
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*GASP* Quincy bad??????? :cry:
 
Well Michael and Quincy had their time, the same with Michael and Teddy. It's time for new team-up with a new partner.
 
mjdvds said:
Was Teddy Riley actually good for Michael??? Is he any good??? I dont think so in some senses, lets take a look at Dangerous.....

Jam
Can't Let Her Get Away
In The Closet
She Drives Me Wild
Remember The Time
Dangerous

Now the above songs were either never released or did not chart so well, they all have a dated sound to them, what did he actually do?????????? Listen to bad, thriller and off the wall alot of the songs still sound fresh, but these tracks from dangerous sound old and are very rarely played in radios or clubs! I am saying Riley was a bad choice, his new jack sound never took off and dangerous was a casualty, so much more could have come from them songs :punk:
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You do realize that Dangerous is usually most people's favorite album of all time? And not just Michael fans, but the general public. The songs you listed are amazing. In The Closet is one of Michael's best songs and is amazing because he doesn't usually directly mention sex. In this song, it's clearly sex he is singing about. And the moans in the background, woah o_O Dangerous is just mind-blowing, seven minutes of production excellence. Remember The Time, you can't call "bad". That song is a classic, and was one of the first to turn me into a Michael fan. Can't Let Her Get Away & She Drives Me Wild, though not amazing, they are truly fun and make me wanna bang my head to the music. I don't understand what you mean by saying Teddy Riley was not a good choice....

My verdict: He was VERY good!!!
 
I could've sworn we were all adults here, why do I feel like I'm in recess with some kids playing and arguing over the monkey bars?
 
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