Status hearings discussion thread / all threads merged

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

only if the defence truely dont have witness statements and are incompetent. murrray could use that in an appeal i guess. but u dont believe that for one minute. its all games and tactics. ask for a quick trial then dont hand over anything

 

[bluetopez]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

withdrawl is their excuse

Yea, I know! But, who in hell told them that lie!? They never found it in his home or in his body to even go there! It would have to be someone telling them that B.S! I don't see how they can prove such a thing! SMH

 

[Milka]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

only if the defence truely dont have witness statements and are incompetent. murrray could use that in an appeal i guess. but u dont believe that for one minute. its all games and tactics. ask for a quick trial then dont hand over anything

I'm just trying to understand what they are trying to do. Nobody can be THAT stupid, that new lawyer is not a coincidence, and now claiming they have no witness statements? They are acting like it's their first trial ever.

 

[Petrarose]

This is really interesting
http://www.teammichaeljackson.com/tmj_003.htm

Walgren: The People [Prosecution] have not received Discovery, statements, or reports… but only a witness list. The Defense has had enough time to time to prepare these. A large number of witnesses do not appear on our Discovery.
Chernoff: We do not have witness statements or specialist reports. We are having a meeting tomorrow, and in couple days, when we have these, then we will get them to the Prosecution by the 28th
Judge: You do not have witness statements? Have you spoken to witnesses?
Chernoff: We have mental impressions and thoughts [from witnesses], but not statements.
Judge quoted a Penal Code Section regarding the Prosecution being able to have all Discovery [from the Defense] 28 days prior to trial, but it can be earlier.
Chernoff: We have put down notes/memos, but we have not converted them into written form. We have documents of our findings, but it is not Discovery. If you order us to take witness statements then we will. We don’t have them now. We have had conversations, but not in writing,
Judge: So you are producing witnesses without statements? Penal code 1054.3 A states that the Defense is required to provide to the Prosecution the names, addresses of witnesses who you are calling, written, recorded reports of experts, a physical and mental examination of the defendant, real evidence at the trial. So you have nothing called for in this Penal Code Section?
Chernoff: We are aware, but no expert reports or statements are present. Once we have them then we will turn them over to the Prosecution. Thursday we have meetings… when we have them we will turn them over.
Walgren: 1054 is designed to avoid this. This is gamesmanship. We have provided immediately what we had. This is unfair to the People [Prosecution] to be produced with the Defense Discovery so near to the trial. We need time to fairly process [Discovery] so we can have a fair trial.
Chernoff: We understand. (repeated the same from before, blah blah)
Judge: Your responsibility stands beyond meetings. You were provided reports, were notes taken?
Chernoff: Memos were prepared by myself. Flanagan spoke to ?? I don’t know if notes were taken by him. My guess is we will have it by the end of the week. We are not hiding anything. Walgren says no surprises, yet he has already spoken to one of the experts we are speaking with, yet he says he is in the dark. We have 91 witnesses from the Prosecution I have gone through and I don’t have most of their witness statements.
Judge: Law requires 28 days before proceeding are due to commence. I have 107 witness names mentioned. They may not all be called… going to wait for the Discovery. ?
Chernoff: Yes

I am sorry, but the defense sound as though they are in a play with the Three Stooges. Their answers make them sound so incompetent. I am so glad they are defending Murray.

 

[xthunderx2]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 15th

I am sorry, but the defense sound as though they are in a play with the Three Stooges. Their answers make them sound so incompetent. I am so glad they are defending Murray.

me too..there defense is as ridiculous as Murray's lies...they make a great pair.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

I'm just trying to understand what they are trying to do. Nobody can be THAT stupid, that new lawyer is not a coincidence, and now claiming they have no witness statements? They are acting like it's their first trial ever.

I really think the defense know they do not have a case, so they are going to rely on schemes to mislead the Proc. For instance, read the statement of one of their witnesses about Michael being addicted to a drug that we know is not part of the case or cause of his death. Murray probable went to school with this doctor since they seem to have the same intelligence. When we do get the written statement from the doctor, I wonder if the drug name would be changed to propofol?

 

[StacyJ]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

Demerol has nothing to do with Murray giving MJ propofol as a sleep aid. And how did this so called expert come to that conclusion? Sounds to me like Murray has no defense at all. His team is playing games. I wonder if Murray's character witnesses will say that Murray left them in a room hooked to propofol while he talked to his girlfriends? The prosecution will destroy those character witnesses.

 

[Ashtanga]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

:doh:

 

[Kingofpop4ever3000]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

wtf! there was no demoral in mjs system or house. deary me so how did that kill mike and not diprivan. ridiculous beyond belief. no wonder they have no written statements from this dr

i guess they have been listening to morphine ! more p.r games. put demoral out there as a smoke screen

This is very annoying and I am tired of the games.

I agree. In my opinion, this whole thing has been absolute bullcrap from the very day Michael died. Now they're having trouble even getting organized for the courtroom trial. This is a mess.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

I admit it all I have is a high school diploma so sometimes this legal stuff goes over my head so someone help me if I am wrong. This case goes to trial in a few weeks lets just say four now Murray's lawyer says he never takes notes and has not taken notes in ten years and according to him he does not have to. The judge however disagrees and says yes you must take notes and hand them over so in other words he is saying the judge is wrong and he is right. Now Murray's lawyer says they have a expert who will say Michael died from demerol withdrawal and not Propofol now I have seen some people go through withdrawal and lets just say they don't do the things Michael did the night before he died. And even if you want to say that then there better be some proof that Michael used Demerol at least a few days before he died and was showing signs of withdrawal that night. Oh and BTW I went and looked it up and I have some symptoms of withdrawal allow me to list them.


Emotional Withdrawal Symptoms

• Anxiety
• Restlessness
• Irritability
• Insomnia
• Headaches
• Poor concentration
• Depression
• Social isolation

Physical Withdrawal Symptoms

• Sweating
• Racing heart
• Palpitations
• Muscle tension
• Tightness in the chest
• Difficulty breathing
• Tremor
• Nausea, vomiting, or diarrhea

Dangerous Withdrawal Symptoms

• Grand mal seizures
• Heart attacks
• Strokes
• Hallucinations
• Delirium tremens (DTs)

I would post more but I think you get my point wakeme when this is all over

 

[yaazgurl]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

I hope this is the right thread regarding today's hearing. Ivy suggested I post the update I heard as there has been conflicting info. Regarding the new attorney for Murray KNX 1070 a news radio station played a statement by Howard Weitzman that the estate would not be granting a waiver for the conflict of interest and that the judge would have to make a decision. Also Mark Geragos insisted there was a conflict of interest and he had a duty to repreent Michael his client although Michael has died. I was very touched by this and heard this after 6pm today well after the hearing however someone had posted earlier onn twitter that the estate nd Geragos were fine with this new attorney. Aggain what I heard was Weitzmanspeaking that there was a conflict of intereest and they would not prepare a waiver for him.

 

[artik]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

Flanagan told Pastor he hadn't prepared such notes for trials for at least 10 years.
Flanagan contended that California trial laws don't require him to prepare reports on witness interviews to hand over to prosecutors.

How was that even possible if it was against the rules? Is it allowed or not? I don't understand. I'm getting suspicious about Murray's defense lawyers. Sure, they are planning something.

 

[Mechi]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

a speedy trial with a whitness list presented only as short as possible before the actual trial starts can be more a tactic than really incompetence... I am not believing for a second Murray is stupid and as much I'm not believing his lawyers are.

They are making up all these dust clouds to only find one confused jury member in the end not agreeing... that's all they need.

 

[Memefan]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 15th

The trial starts next month and the defense has no witness statements? Murray wanted a speedy trial and they don't have witness statements or reports yet?

That doesn't even sound right


T

they have been too busy feeding tmz the prosecution witness's statements to work on their own.

 

[twinklEE]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

no guys those lawyers of murray they are not half as stupid as they seem, its a clear case of playing games.
gosh I pray to god nothing will go wrong with this trial

 

[thrillerchild]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

This is REALLY getting on my tits! :mello:

 

[stance]

A prosecutor asked Thursday that the trial of Michael Jackson’s doctor be delayed because of what she said was the failure of the defense to share information about its planned case, including the findings of its star forensic witness.

Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor left the scheduled March 24 start of Dr. Conrad Murray’s trial in place, but said he shared the prosecution’s frustration and reminded defense attorneys that they could be fined or barred from calling witnesses if they did not comply with legal obligations to turn over the materials.

“Dr. Murray is entitled to have a speedy trial, but it’s not trial by lack of information,” Pastor said.

Deputy Dist. Atty. Deborah Brazil complained that with only a month before trial, Murray’s lawyers have not handed over a report or notes about the expected testimony of Dr. Paul White.

The defense acknowledged in court that White, a Dallas anesthesiologist with an expertise in propofol -- the drug that killed Jackson -- is its most important witness. But defense attorney J. Michael Flanagan insisted the expert had not prepared a report and had communicated his findings verbally. Those findings, Flanagan said, included the opinion that Jackson was addicted to Demerol and that Murray did not cause Jackson’s death.

Pastor urged Murray’s lawyers to provide more information about White's testimony to the prosecution.

“I’m just finding it very difficult to believe that a renowned forensic expert in any subject is going to take the stand without having documentation in front of him,” the judge said.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/02/michael-jackson-conrad-murray-trial.html

 

[ginvid]

Re: Prosecutor says defense isn't sharing information, asks for delay of doctor's trial

Thank goodness the judge is at least behind the prosecutors on this. I hope their stall and hide method backfires on them. Thanks for posting.

 

[ivy]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

I admit it all I have is a high school diploma so sometimes this legal stuff goes over my head so someone help me if I am wrong.

don't think like this. common sense is enough in most situations to come to the correct outcome. so you are fine.

Now Murray's lawyer says they have a expert who will say Michael died from demerol withdrawal and not Propofol now I have seen some people go through withdrawal and lets just say they don't do the things Michael did the night before he died. And even if you want to say that then there better be some proof that Michael used Demerol at least a few days before he died and was showing signs of withdrawal that night.

I think this ties with their defense strategy.

Think for a moment Murray main defense line is that " I didn't give him anything that would kill him"

okay but MJ is dead so he's left with explaining why he's dead.

He has two possible ways to do it

1- he killed himself (accidentally) - self injection & drinking etc

2- something / someone else killed him - this ties with KJ - AEG lawsuit and Karen Faye testimony etc - saying that he was overworked, stressed , underweight, Klein drugged him etc.

I think they might try to go with propofol wouldn't normally kill him but combined with the other conditions (again such as work schedule, weight, Klein's treatment) it became fatal.

I hope this is the right thread regarding today's hearing. Ivy suggested I post the update I heard as there has been conflicting info. Regarding the new attorney for Murray KNX 1070 a news radio station played a statement by Howard Weitzman that the estate would not be granting a waiver for the conflict of interest and that the judge would have to make a decision. Also Mark Geragos insisted there was a conflict of interest and he had a duty to repreent Michael his client although Michael has died. I was very touched by this and heard this after 6pm today well after the hearing however someone had posted earlier onn twitter that the estate nd Geragos were fine with this new attorney. Aggain what I heard was Weitzmanspeaking that there was a conflict of intereest and they would not prepare a waiver for him.

Thank you for posting it Up to this point we didn't hear what the estate thinks so now we know that they wouldn't be giving a waiver - in other words show consent to allowing the new lawyer work of Murray.

We will most probably learn the outcome of this issue soon.

 

[xthunderx2]

Re: Prosecutor says defense isn't sharing information, asks for delay of doctor's trial

Michael NEVER had demeral in his system...maybe this guy never read the autopsy report either...:no:

 

[StacyJ]

Re: Prosecutor says defense isn't sharing information, asks for delay of doctor's trial

Michael NEVER had demeral in his system...maybe this guy never read the autopsy report either...:no:

Exactly... how can he prove that? Like the prosecutor said there is no evidence of that. And would this propofol expert agree that Murray giving MJ propofol as a sleep aid was right? would he also agree that not having the equipment to save his patient the right thing to do? If this expert witness says this, then the medical board needs to be looking at him. No wonder he doesn't want to write anything down. If this fool defends Murray then he's done. Does he realize the man he's defending was on the phone and left his patient alone under anesthesia with no medical monitoring equipment?

 

[StacyJ]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

don't think like this. common sense is enough in most situations to come to the correct outcome. so you are fine.



I think this ties with their defense strategy.

Think for a moment Murray main defense line is that " I didn't give him anything that would kill him"

okay but MJ is dead so he's left with explaining why he's dead.

He has two possible ways to do it

1- he killed himself (accidentally) - self injection & drinking etc

2- something / someone else killed him - this ties with KJ - AEG lawsuit and Karen Faye testimony etc - saying that he was overworked, stressed , underweight, Klein drugged him etc.

I think they might try to go with propofol wouldn't normally kill him but combined with the other conditions (again such as work schedule, weight, Klein's treatment) it became fatal.




Thank you for posting it Up to this point we didn't hear what the estate thinks so now we know that they wouldn't be giving a waiver - in other words show consent to allowing the new lawyer work of Murray.

We will most probably learn the outcome of this issue soon.

But he was responsible for MJ's health so how can that be a defense? if MJ had other factors Murray was supposed to find them and resolve his issues not drug him up even more and then not watch him.. If MJ was stressed and sick Murray was supposed to treat that or at least get MJ help from another professional but Murray told eveyone that MJ was just fine and healthy so how can he now say he's not responsible. The fact that Murray told everyone including the insurer that MJ was fine and healthy will come back to haunt his behind. Being a doctor wouldn't Murray know what withdrawals symptons look like? In addition to that did Murray find any other meds in MJ's system during urine and blood samples he should've been taking?

 

[wendy2004]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

But he was responsible for MJ's health so how can that be a defense? if MJ had other factors Murray was supposed to find them and resolve his issues not drug him up even more and then not watch him.. If MJ was stressed and sick Murray was supposed to treat that or at least get MJ help from another professional but Murray told eveyone that MJ was just fine and healthy so how can he now say he's not responsible. The fact that Murray told everyone including the insurer that MJ was fine and healthy will come back to haunt his behind. Being a doctor wouldn't Murray know what withdrawals symptons look like? In addition to that did Murray find any other meds in MJ's system during urine and blood samples he should've been taking?

Bingo! And it was his duty to know what Klein was giving Michael during whatever procedures he may have been having done during the daytime. If he didn't bother to ask or care for the weeks he was "caring for Michael", then it's just more evidence that he was negligent. If he did ask and KNEW MJ was getting demerol shots for those procedures and ignored the risk, then he's still negligent.

Seriously, he's done. And the fact that he continued to state MJ's health was fine on the VERY morning of Michael's death seals the deal. He's either a bad doctor and a good liar or a bad doctor and bad liar...imo.

 

[StacyJ]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

Bingo! And it was his duty to know what Klein was giving Michael during whatever procedures he may have been having done during the daytime. If he didn't bother to ask or care for the weeks he was "caring for Michael", then it's just more evidence that he was negligent. If he did ask and KNEW MJ was getting demerol shots for those procedures and ignored the risk, then he's still negligent.

Seriously, he's done. And the fact that he continued to state MJ's health was fine on the VERY morning of Michael's death seals the deal. He's either a bad doctor and a good liar or a bad doctor and bad liar...imo.

Exactly... Didn't he know MJ was going to see Klein for dermatological issues? and like you stated he should've inquired about it.. Why didn't he call Klein and inquire about what he was giving his patient? Besides there was absolutely no demerol in MJ's system so that didn't cause his death

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

I hope this is the right thread regarding today's hearing. Ivy suggested I post the update I heard as there has been conflicting info. Regarding the new attorney for Murray KNX 1070 a news radio station played a statement by Howard Weitzman that the estate would not be granting a waiver for the conflict of interest and that the judge would have to make a decision. Also Mark Geragos insisted there was a conflict of interest and he had a duty to repreent Michael his client although Michael has died. I was very touched by this and heard this after 6pm today well after the hearing however someone had posted earlier onn twitter that the estate nd Geragos were fine with this new attorney. Aggain what I heard was Weitzmanspeaking that there was a conflict of intereest and they would not prepare a waiver for him.

thanks for that. that confirms it for us that the estate and mark dont want this lawyer involved.

I think this ties with their defense strategy.

Think for a moment Murray main defense line is that " I didn't give him anything that would kill him"

okay but MJ is dead so he's left with explaining why he's dead.

He has two possible ways to do it

1- he killed himself (accidentally) - self injection & drinking etc

2- something / someone else killed him - this ties with KJ - AEG lawsuit and Karen Faye testimony etc - saying that he was overworked, stressed , underweight, Klein drugged him etc.

I think they might try to go with propofol wouldn't normally kill him but combined with the other conditions (again such as work schedule, weight, Klein's treatment) it became fatal.

agree. thats where its going. they are gonna use his trips to klien fayes comments the jacksons comments and will try to say he was in ill health and as we have already seen from the prelim looked how they pushed the druggie crap by going on about mj being blue being the sign of an addict and wearing a shower cap means u are a druggie.its the most ridiculous defence ever ontop of all the other crap they have come out with but its about mudding the waters and putting mj on trial.their only hope is for jurrors to forget about the facts of the case and start thinking mj was a druggie who asked for it and murray got caught up in mjs world. that has nothing to do with the actual charges but that is their only hope to get him off or get a mistrial.the judge has to be very strong on what he allows as evidence and how he directs the jury. the pros could file motions to stop this evidence from being used as its prejudicial and irrelevent to the case but aslong as they dont hand over witness statements how can the pros file such a motion if they want to. as without a statement they dont know for sure what this expert will say.

dont be caught out thinking the defence are stupid. they are far from it. look at what they are doing. asking for a quick trial then claiming they have no evidence to show the prosecution.unless the judge acts then they will get one over the pros big time. the judge talks about penalities. if he doesnt want to delay it its very simple. do as he threatened. refuse any witness testimony that doesnt have any written statements to go with it. you will then find pages apon pages of interviews will appear.to think this is a system that sends ppl to their death is as scary as hell. its not about jusitice but who can play the game the best.

The fact that Murray told everyone including the insurer that MJ was fine and healthy will come back to haunt his behind.

he also claimed he was mjs only dr for the previous 3 years. he should be charged with insurance fraud aswell as everything else. the pros will use this against him to show hes pathological liar

And would this propofol expert agree that Murray giving MJ propofol as a sleep aid was right? would he also agree that not having the equipment to save his patient the right thing to do?

i look forward to the pros asking the "expert" this question.

But he was responsible for MJ's health so how can that be a defense?

u can say anything as a defence especially when u dont have one.

 

[cinzia]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

Although I understand there are ethical restrictions preventing a lawyer from divulging info on a previous client, still, with the addition of gourjian, suddenly (?) now the defense is bringing up demerol addiction? Could there be a connection here? Or just my paranoia raising its head?

And this addiction 'red herring'. This makes, what, 3 scenarios for Michael's death as floated by the defense: He injected himself, he drank it, now he was in withdrawal. What is this, multiple choice?
And murray being the fine clinician he is, was clueless about this alleged situation??? Oh, sure.

Even if it were true, NOT saying it was, how would that cause Michael to have anesthesia levels of propofol in his blood?? It couldn't, plain and simple.

And I don't care how many character witnesses the defense trots out, it makes no difference to what happened. I am sure Charles Manson's lawyers could have found character witnesses, too. SO WHAT! How many times have we heard in the news after a person kills someone, that a neighbor or friend says: But he was such a nice, quiet, friendly (you pick one) person...I would never have believed s/he could do such a thing.
And I should think that as far as character is concerned, all those children by women, not his wife, and all the child support he was/is owing, speaks to his character loudly and clearly, too.

My fear is that all this is just some smoke screen for what they are really planning...

I am glad to see the judge appears to be keeping a firm hand on the proceedings. I do so hope that it is true about the estate's not agreeing to a waiver. Even if Gourjian had been nothing but a lowly clerk at the time, there is still no telling what he might have inadvertently heard or seen. And there must be something of substance or Geragos wouldn't be asking for a private hearing.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

i dont think theres a conncetion between the lawyer and demoral

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

There is a time for playing games and then there is not. You play games when you have nothing true but not this late in the game.

 

[cinzia]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

i dont think theres a conncetion between the lawyer and demoral

Thank you. You're right, I know you're right, logically I know there can't be a connection... but this whole thing is getting sooo bizarre :wild: I wonder if anything could surprise us anymore! (Well, murray changing his plea to guilty would do it... )

 

[StacyJ]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 24th

I have a question about character witnesses. If the defense goes and trots out his patients saying what a lovely man he's supposed to be, doesn't that mean the prosecution can trot out all of his girlfriends, baby mama's and lack of child support to counterattack his character witnesses?