Status hearings discussion thread / all threads merged

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Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

The prosecution denounced it as an attempted sideshow to distract jurors and to smear Jackson's reputation. The judge refused to grant the subpoena saying it was overbroad, irrelevant and invaded Jackson's privacy
what? so it was quashed? why would weitzman agree to hand over some records then. unless sharon has mixed that up? great news. thank f*** for that
:clapping::clapping::clapping:
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

Weitzman agreed to share some information with the defense but all agreed the subpoena was too broad.

so the sub wasnt quashed but they agreed it was to broad? so the judge will rule like with thome over what exact questions can be asked.

AP Update
The judge refused to grant the subpoena saying it was overbroad, irrelevant and invaded Jackson's privacy.[/url]

what Sharon reports is a modified subpoena (judge approved but narrowed the contents) but the above AP report makes it sound like it got quashed totally.

what? so it was quashed? why would weitzman agree to hand over some records then. unless sharon has mixed that up? great news. thank f*** for that

relax. sometimes willingly giving limited information is better than being forced to giving up all the information.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

I wish Peter Lopez was here. He knew Michael's financial situation.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

yeah hoping it was totally quashed. shuts down a major defence tactic. great news these fools are doing everything sneddon did. prob been in contact with him knowing them
 
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Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

What a pathetic defence. These lawyers are as stupid as Murray.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

I hate to sound silly. But to me, most if not everything that happened in court today just invites more questions than answers. Personally, I don't get any of this right now. I'm really confused.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

questions like what. if u are confused just ask and we can try and explain things to u
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

I hate to sound silly. But to me, most if not everything that happened in court today just invites more questions than answers. Personally, I don't get any of this right now. I'm really confused.

don't say stuff like "silly" etc. Ask away , perhaps we can explain and discuss it? At least we can try to make them much more simpler.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

I'm confused about the following.

Was the subpeona quashed or not?

I will post other questions as I think of them if they have not been already answered
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

^^

for that we are waiting for Sharon's detailed report from inside the courtroom.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

Thanks Ivy and Elusive.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

Trying to probe Michael's financial situation seems to be as much of a red-herring as it was during his trial, when they tried to make some sort of convoluted connection between his financial shape and. . . .abduction by hot-air balloon? :bugeyed

As I've said before, what I hope for is that in the end, the jury has some common sense? And that they can see that what Murray did was so outrageous, that he will be convicted.
 
ivy;3329914 said:
what Sharon reports is a modified subpoena (judge approved but narrowed the contents) but the above AP report makes it sound like it got quashed totally.



relax. sometimes willingly giving limited information is better than being forced to giving up all the information.

 
 
Thanks Ivy for clarifying that quite well.

Okay I am at my computer and can type a bit faster than with my cell, plus it isn't as likely to lose info after I type it whereas one call coming in sometimes obliterates that on the cell for me.

Also, thanks for waiting to move the thread here until after I'd given the last update from the courthouse on my cell, it made it easier form me with there being less content to download and scrolling to the bottom of page content to post in which sometimes the cell slows down extensively.

The defense is trying to obtain documents for evidence from Arnold Kline from the period of 10/22/08-6/22/09. Kline is currently out of the country, his attorney wants the documents sealed concerning the subpoena of MJ's medical records. Mr. Weitzman informed the court that the estates position towards Kline’s is the same, that being they'd previously refused to waive any rights what so ever and were in opposition. Judge Pastor stated the information may or may not be admissible and that the court would review the records in camera and make a determination.

The prosecution initiated discussion over the number of pages that the defense had from Kline, they being a larger number of which the prosecution stated they had in their possession and attorneys were instructed to determine if that was an error or not. Walgren for the prosecution stated they had 84 pages whereas he said the defense has stated they have said they have 130 pgs. of the document in their possession. They are to make arrangements to meet and see if it is in error or the defense are to hand over any documents to the prosecution they do not have if indeed they have more. The defense told the court that they would be using the documents for medical experts to review. These documents included treatment and billing.

Dr. Kline’s attorney informed the court that the medical record he was submitting included treatments by another dr. as well that were in Kline’s files then passed the documents to both sides of counsel.
 
Mr. Weitzman was a bit late for court but this was likely due to the status of the elevators. He informed judge Pastor that getting up to the court room was quite challenging, and that it was not like it use to be. Judge Pastor briefly mentioned the elevators and then begun to discuss the issues at hand. For anyone who is interested the elevators at the courthouse are designated into two sections, each set going to designated floors. The 9<SUP>th</SUP> floor also has a metal detector set up for screening individuals. There are also other issues with the elevators at times.

Weitzman informed judge Pastor that the subpoena concerning Michael Jackson’s finances was so broad it could possibly never be filled, it was burdensome and wondered what relevance they could be to the defense though he thought the request was quite creative.

Chernoff of the defense said he had asked for loans taken with three agencies though my spelling may not be exact to what I determined from what was pronounced those could be H.S.B.C., Barkley’s Playfield and Hong Kong High, saying he named all could be conceivably connected with AEG and that they have financial experts to review. He went on to claim that the defenses position is that “Jackson did a desperate act and took desperate measures that caused his own dea--. Chernoff also stated that once doing the concerts Michael leveraged his greatest assets being his music catalogs, which were leveraged by three entities.

Weitzman asked if the theory is that MJ committed suici--, then stated the estate would be willing to submit loan documents. He stated if Michael had lived and completed tour he would have continued conducting business and accomplish refinance of loans.

Chernoff said they needed info of what leverage on catalogs for each of the three creditors was. He said it would not have to be offered into evidence and that an expert witness would work on it.

Judge Pastor said it is one thing to have it offered and another to have it presented at trial then asked to hear prosecuting attorney’s Walgren and Brazil’s opinions concerning Jackson’s finances.

Walgren replied to the judge that he thought Chernoffs requests are an irrelevant sideshow designed to take away from issues, smear Jackson’s name and had nothing to do with causing his dea--.

Chernoff countered stating opinions of Weitzman and Walgren was an irrelevant issue and that it is for judge Pastor to decide at time offered into evidence. He said he was a desperate man including his financial affairs.

Judge Pastor said the request was overbroad, unduly burdensome and conflicted with rights of privacy. He said if Weitzman and defense can reach an agreement that’s one thing but he was not quashing the Branca subpoena now. He also stated that he would not turn trial of the people VS. Conrad Murray into an escapade and have detailed info of Michael’s entire life. He informed the defense they would have to limit where they are going with there request.

Weitzman expressed he was willing to meet and confer with the defense concerning numbers only.

Judge Pastor again said the subpoena request was unreasonable, too broad and “quite frankly don’t think it’s established for good cause.” He said he would like all to meet and discuss. He said the body attachment would be held for Branca ‘till May 9<SUP>th</SUP> .

Before ending the days proceedings judge Pastor said he had received two separate packet envelopes from the defense and prosecution that were both sealed, then asked which part y would want to photo copy. The information was said to be the same in both envelopes and should be evidence. The prosecution agreed to photo copy.

To surmise at this point Mr. Branca has not been ordered to present any materials and on his behalf Mr. Weitzman has agreed to provide limited financial information to the defense because judge Pastor wants to determine if there is relevance in Conrad Murray’s defense.

Judge Pastor did not quash either motion concerning Kline or Branca.
The next hearing is tomorrow and will only cover another day of possible jury candidates.

Hope that helps, in a rush - gotta go.

God bless!!!
 
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Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

(CNN) -- Michael Jackson's dermatologist was ordered to give copies of the pop star's medical records Wednesday to attorneys for the doctor charged in Jackson's death.
But a lawyer for Jackson's estate was successful in convincing the judge not to order estate executors to give the defense detailed financial information about money the singer owed when he died.
Dr. Conrad Murray, who is charged with involuntary manslaughter, allegedly gave Jackson the propofol that the coroner ruled caused the star's death on June 25, 2009.
Defense attorney Ed Chernoff argued Wednesday he needed the financial and medical information to make the case that Jackson, who was "a desperate man in many respects," gave himself the fatal dose of surgical anesthesia while the doctor was not watching.
"He was actually in more debt as a result of the concerts than he would have obtained from doing the concerts," Chernoff said.
The defense believes music catalogs owned by Jackson were "essentially worthless" because of several loans in which they were used as collateral, Chernoff said.
"Jackson did a desperate act and took desperate measures that caused his own death," Chernoff said. "Therefore, his emotional, physical and financial condition are relevant to show his state of mind when he did this act."
Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor ruled that the defense subpoena for Jackson's financial records, which his estate controls, was overly broad.
"I'm not going to turn a trial involving involuntary manslaughter into an escapade and into a detailed analysis of the finances of Michael Jackson's entire life," Pastor said.
The judge, however, did not quash the defense subpoena ordering Jackson estate executor John Branca to testify in the trial.
Jury selection, which began last month, will continue into early May. Opening statements and testimony are scheduled to begin May 9.
The defense argued that Jackson self-administered the propofol in a desperate attempt to get sleep before a rehearsal.
Murray told investigators he was trying to wean Jackson off propofol in the last days of his life, but that he used it in combination with other drugs to help the pop star sleep that last morning.
The defense alleges the singer's dermatologist, Dr. Arnold Klein, injected Jackson with powerful painkillers dozens of times in the last months of his life, unknown to Murray.
The Medical Board of California and Los Angeles County coroner investigated Klein after Jackson's death, but he was never charged, and no action was taken against his medical license.
Last week, the judge also ordered Jackson's business manager to testify in the trial.
Tohme Tohme had "intimate knowledge of his finances, drug use, his habits" in his final months, defense attorney Nareg Gourjian said.
"His financial difficulties at the time is clearly relevant to our assertion that Mr. Jackson self-administered himself with propofol," Gourjian said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/04/06/conrad.murray.trial/
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

marc beat me to it.

so combining all

judge said
- no to financial documents
- yes to Branca testifying

Weitzman expressed he was willing to meet and confer with the defense concerning numbers only.

so that means no documents, no details and Weitzman would only confirm or deny numbers.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

why is branca subpoened ? to discuss MJ's financial situation ?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

why is branca subpoened ? to discuss MJ's financial situation ?

probably finances and/or contract deal with AEG and business matters. they are calling Tohme for the same reason.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

Weitzman expressed he was willing to meet and confer with the defense concerning numbers only.
why the hell is weitzman helping the defence.

i dont get this ruling can someone clarifiy. first the judge says no then he says yes. what is it? he speaks out of both sides of his mouth. one min saying im not turning this into a trial about mjs life the next doesnt quash stuff. and how can he wait till amy 9th do make a final decision thats when opening statements are due. how can A.P state the sub is quashed and thats it yet sharon provides all this info
 
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Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

why the hell is weitzman helping the defence.

i dont get this ruling first the judge says no then he says yes. what is it? he speaks out of both sides of his mouth. one min saying im not turning this into a trial about mjs life the next doesnt quash stuff.

Exactly. These are both things that throw me off from understanding this. I want to understand the judge's reasoning because he's been fair from what I can tell so far. But this is really strange to me.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

dito he makes no sense. all he does is delay rulings everytime and we end up waiting for the next hearing where he delays it yet again and says ill make a ruling later. get a fecking backbone
 
elusive moonwalker;3330035 said:
why the hell is weitzman helping the defence.

i dont get this ruling first the judge says no then he says yes. what is it? he speaks out of both sides of his mouth. one min saying im not turning this into a trial about mjs life the next doesnt quash stuff.

by looking to what Sharon and CNN wrote my understanding that he did quash the request for the financial documents mostly . He said that Estate and Defense could talk among themselves because he wants to see if there's any relevance to this information being requested by Murray's defense. Weitzman is agreeing to "numbers only" information which is I believe already mostly available in the progress reports that the Estate is filing with the probate court. So I really do not think Estate is volunteering much info. He's keeping Branca's subpoena to testify or the time being but also says he won't let this to be about dissecting Michael's life. So even if Branca takes the stand , they could be limited in regards to the question they can ask to him and plus most probably Branca can and will claim "attorney-client privilege" for some stuff as he's a lawyer.

so in short he's not approving it the way they want it (all documents all details), he's letting limited information to see if there's any relevance and saying that he'll be limiting what they can do with that information.

see this summary from sharon as well

To surmise at this point Mr. Branca has not been ordered to present any materials and on his behalf Mr. Weitzman has agreed to provide limited financial information to the defense because judge Pastor wants to determine if there is relevance in Conrad Murray’s defense.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

that's cool... Maybe the prosecution will ask Murray about his financial situation and why he agreed to give a man anesthesia as a sleep aid? is that something he would normally give to his insomniac patients?

I appreciate the judge saying that this trial will be about the involuntary manslaughter case against Murray not MJ's financial obligations.. If Murray knew MJ was a desperate mess and was stressed about these concerts, he should not have taken the job.
 
elusive moonwalker;3330035 said:
i dont get this ruling can someone clarifiy. first the judge says no then he says yes. what is it? he speaks out of both sides of his mouth. one min saying im not turning this into a trial about mjs life the next doesnt quash stuff. and how can he wait till amy 9th do make a final decision thats when opening statements are due. how can A.P state the sub is quashed and thats it yet sharon provides all this info

Kingofpop4ever3000;3330037 said:
Exactly. These are both things that throw me off from understanding this. I want to understand the judge's reasoning because he's been fair from what I can tell so far. But this is really strange to me.

Basically he allows a modified subpoena - quashing parts , changing other parts, approving (or keeping) some parts.

As reported by both Sharon and CNN : Weitzman calls the document request "burdensome" and Judge calls it "broad" which means that Murray's defense probably wanted a lot of or even ALL financial documents regarding Michael. (Remember with Klein they wanted Michael's all medical records but later judge limited it to final 9 months).

And judge didn't allow this, he basically quashed this part saying "No. The estate doesn't have to turn any documents".

For fairness and to establish relevance (or not) he's letting the defense to examine this further with the Estate. Weitzman is agreeing to a "numbers only" information - which will probably like "Sony/ATV has a loan on it for 300Million - correct" kind of thing. (And like I said some numbers are already public at the Estate's financial records from probate court - remember media reporting creditor claims, loan amounts, debt.) As this examination is going on he's keeping a part of the subpoena ( the Branca testifying part) for the time being.

But he warns the defense that (quoting Sharon) "Judge Pastor said it is one thing to have it offered and another to have it presented at trial" and "He also stated that he would not turn trial of the people VS. Conrad Murray into an escapade and have detailed info of Michael&#8217;s entire life. He informed the defense they would have to limit where they are going with there request."

So he basically says even if they are given some financial information for their discovery , it doesn't mean that he will allow it to be used in the trial.

In other words : No financial documents are given to the defense (quashed part), can try to establish relevance (numbers only information from Estate) and according to relevance Judge might or might not let Branca testify during trial (will decide later based on relevance if present). That's how I understand it.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

I appreciate the judge saying that this trial will be about the involuntary manslaughter case against Murray not MJ's financial obligations.. If Murray knew MJ was a desperate mess and was stressed about these concerts, he should not have taken the job.

Exactly!

Murray apparently wasn't TOO concerned when he blasted Kenny Ortega for sending Michel home, because Michael wasn't feeling well that day.

Didn't Murray say "something" that amounts to: "Michael's fine, mind your business."
 
And judge didn't allow this, he basically quashed this part saying "No. The estate doesn't have to turn any documents".

For fairness and to establish relevance (or not) he's letting the defense to examine this further with the Estate. Weitzman is agreeing to a "numbers only" information - which will probably like "Sony/ATV has a loan on it for 300Million - correct" kind of thing. (And like I said some number are already public at the Estate's financial records from probate court) As this examination is going on he's keeping a part of the subpoena ( the Branca testifying part) for the time being.

But he warns the defense that (quoting Sharon) "Judge Pastor said it is one thing to have it offered and another to have it presented at trial" and "He also stated that he would not turn trial of the people VS. Conrad Murray into an escapade and have detailed info of Michael&#8217;s entire life. He informed the defense they would have to limit where they are going with there request."

So he basically says even if they are given some financial information for their discovery , it doesn't mean that he will allow it to be used in the trial.

ok thanks. but firstly i dont get why weitzman is even offering up anything regardless of whether its public record or not. hes given the judge a reason to not quash the sub in full because he says the defence and pros can talk about these numbers.

and what exactly does the below mean?

udge Pastor said it is one thing to have it offered and another to have it presented at trial"

the problem is the judge is letting the defence see numbers with help from howard and is going to determine relevence etc. so going by this the judge still hasnt decided as to whether hes going to let the defence go down this route and use this financial B.S as a defence. that to me is what matters and yet again the judge has stalled on a ruling. even if the defence cant have all the dos they have asked for and can only get their hands on what is public record then that is still enough evidence to create a theory (which they have done) the issue is whether the judge is gonna let them run with that theory or block it from even been talked about by the defence during the case.and on that there is no ruling
 
linda D explaining things more easily

Lawyers say singer was desperate over finances
AP
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110406/ap_en_..._jackson_doctor

By LINDA DEUTSCH, AP Special Correspondent Linda Deutsch, Ap Special Correspondent &#8211; 56 mins ago

LOS ANGELES &#8211; A defense lawyer for Michael Jackson's doctor said Wednesday the singer was so anguished about his deteriorating finances in his final days that he took desperate actions that caused his own death.

The statements by attorney Edward Chernoff came during a pretrial hearing in the case of Dr. Conrad Murray, who has pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter in Jackson's death.

Chernoff was asking to see Jackson's financial records to prove a key defense theory.

"The crux of the defense is going to be that Michael Jackson engaged in a desperate act and took desperate measures that caused his death," Chernoff told Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor. "We believe at the time Michael Jackson died he was a desperate man in relation to his financial affairs."

Deputy District Attorney David Walgren accused the defense of trying to distract from the main issue of the trial &#8212; whether Murray acted with gross negligence when he gave Jackson the anesthetic propofol and other sedatives on the day he died..

"This is an irrelevant sideshow designed to take issues away from the jury and smear Michael Jackson," Walgren said. "It has nothing to do with the case on which Dr. Murray is being prosecuted. "

Attorney Howard Weitzman, representing the late singer's estate, also opposed the request for financial records.

"Is the theory that Michael Jackson committed suicide, took his own life?" he said incredulously. "I don't think that's a salable theory.

The judge refused to grant the request.

"I'm not going to turn an involuntary manslaughter trial into some kind of an escapade in analysis of the finances in Michael Jackson's entire life," Pastor said. "Right now this is major deep sea fishing."


However, Pastor did order Weitzman to confer with defense counsel on financial records that are already available in the public record.

The reference to Jackson's finances added a new twist to the defense case.

During an earlier preliminary hearing, Murray's lawyers suggested that Jackson, who was desperate for sleep, gave himself an additional dose of propofol while Murray was in a restroom. A coroner's report showed the singer died of an overdose of propofol and an assortment of other sedatives.

Defense lawyers never used the word suicide and implied his death was accidental but self-inflicted. They seemed poised to argue that Jackson was about to embark on an extremely strenuous concert tour because it was the only way to save himself financially.

They are likely to suggest that was why Jackson was so desperate for sleep as he was preparing for the tour. At a preliminary hearing for Murray. Jackson was quoted by a witness as saying if he didn't sleep he would have to cancel the tour.

Lawyers were ordered to return Thursday to continue screening prospective jurors through written questionnaires. Jury selection is scheduled to move into open court on May 4 and opening statements are expected on May 9.

They are likely to suggest that was why Jackson was so desperate for sleep as he was preparing for the tour. At a preliminary hearing for Murray. Jackson was quoted by a witness as saying if he didn't sleep he would have to cancel the tour.

what witness said that?
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

Murray said it
 
elusive moonwalker;3330090 said:
ok thanks. but firstly i dont get why weitzman is even offering up anything regardless of whether its public record or not. hes given the judge a reason to not quash the sub in full because he says the defence and pros can talk about these numbers.

Quoting Sharon

To surmise at this point Mr. Branca has not been ordered to present any materials and on his behalf Mr. Weitzman has agreed to provide limited financial information to the defense because judge Pastor wants to determine if there is relevance in Conrad Murray&#8217;s defense.

Judge want to see if there's any relevance between Murray's request and this case. That's why.

and what exactly does the below mean?

Judge Pastor said it is one thing to have it offered and another to have it presented at trial"

Even if they are given some financial information, he might not let them use / mention it at the trial if he believes there's no relevance or it is aimed to dissect Michael's life.

the issue is whether the judge is gonna let them run with that theory or block it from even been talked about by the defence during the case.and on that there is no ruling

They can run with any theory they want. It's not up to a Judge's approval. Judge is only looking to what they can or cannot use in their case. And he has to evaluate all the requests. and that's simply what he's doing here.


-------------

However, Pastor did order Weitzman to confer with defense counsel on financial records that are already available in the public record.

Just as I thought. Estate isn't offering any help or any additional info. It's already all public.

what witness said that?

Murray said it in his statement to the detectives
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

Murray said it

thanks. i thought i didnt remember any witness testfiying to that. linda twisting things there. reporting it like someone got on the stand and said it.
 
Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing April 6th - Klein & Branca Subpoena

this whole defense theory is a joke as usual...from the very beginning that is all is was for Michael from them..a big smear campaign...again they are trying to divert attention away from Murray the killer and put it on Michael the VICTIM...when will it end..
 
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