Status hearings discussion thread / all threads merged

[smoothlugar]

My belief is Murray separated it.. He had no freakin' clue what he was doing

I believe Murray could have done it deliberately... He had time to develope his strategy to blame the victim. His main concern was not to call emergencies or practise correct CPR (or use the ambu bag correctly, as Ruffalo pointed out), but to hide evidence. Who knows if in the previous minutes before Alberto Álvarez came into the bedroom he sort of "prepared" the scene to his favour...

Of course I admit I'm just speculating and that there may be other more plausible explanations. But I cannot find any. (Needles are not usually separated from syringes unless to be thrown away in the disposable container). That's why I'm asking.

 

[StacyJ]

I believe Murray could have done it deliberately... He had time to develope his strategy to blame the victim. His main concern was not to call emergencies or practise correct CPR (or use de ambu bag correctly, as Ruffalo pointed out), but to hide evidence. Who knows if in the previous minutes before Alberto Álvarez came into the bedroom he sort of "prepared" the scene to his favour...

Of course I admit I'm just speculating and that there may be other more plausible explanations. But I cannot find any. (Needles are not usually separated from syringes unless to be thrown away in the disposable container). That's why I ask.

oh I agree.. Murray thought he would be coming back to totally clear it, but fortunately the bodyguards didn't let him come back to the house. That is why Murray never mentioned propofol to the EMTs or the ER doctor and that's because he thought he would get back to the house to take the bag.

I hope at trial the prosecutors make a point of stressing that because it proves Murray's guilt and his guilty conscience. He knows he killed MJ with an overdose of propofol and the prosecutors hopefully can prove it.

 

[Soundmind]

Senneff :

You had mentionded initally there was in iv in the patients leg. when you gave the pateint that Iv it was via the IV that was already in place.

Was there some restrucitng that neede dto be inplace.

two systemes its with a needles or without a needled. pre hispital setting we changed over to a needlels system years ago. IV cather tube there a port onto .

Needle port has a little rubber stopper and a vavle and you screw that syringe on it.

with a needle sytem you slide the needle in and slide it right back out.

when you get htere theres an ib bagand a tube attaced to Mj leg area. and off that tube there is a port to allow adiminster drus into that iv tubing.

whe you first arrived was it was a needle system kit.

LaFD has gone to a needleles ssystem.

what whas canged to allow your remove saline lock it self, achange it out, and put a new one. while leaving the tubing in.

Because the port i where we would be injectin our meidcaitons.

Needs to look at his report.

I would say 2 rounds of epenephrine and apapine.

in resone and atropine, was the asystlic natuer of the patine at lee.

the ekg readings did not change.

at some point at these too rounds was the leg Iv comprmed in some way.

We had our meica kit opene starter kid, had some medications here, dr murray took some medidines and we he used hte IV port
he in ising he pulled the IV out.

what happened ten. I started another IV.

was one of the other parmends asisitng you in starting a new IV.

when MGoodwne starting looking at arms hands to get an IV.

We normally don’t trust another IV thats in plane

Before we got a better one, the fist iv was compromise.

Did you see that goodwn trying ot get an iv put

he was doing hte usual, getting a turnnequest, trying to get a needle in.

Mark goodwin is inserting the needs into tryi to get a neele and his right and left arm in multiple locations.

was he able to get godo Iv location on iether arm.

No sir.

Blount:

At that point, Dr. Murray held up a hypodermic needle with a blue color, and said, “We could use this here. The team said, “That’s okay.” Witness thought that was odd because they had asked about drugs and Dr. Murray said he had given none. The size of the needle caught his attention. It was a 24 gage [ed. note: small gauge needle.]

Blount noticed small bottles of Lidocaine. It’s a form of anesthetic. There were bottles on the floor. He thought that was odd because they had asked Dr. Murray if he had given any drugs and he said no.

Fleak :

There is a tube of Lidocaine lotion on table. There was a syringe on the table and one on the ground, next to the bed.)

The plunger and the top part of the syringe (to which you would attach a needle)?

Fleak: Yes.

Fleak notes “I did describe it as a broken’ syringe because the two pieces are separated from each other. I should have ...they’re not broken.”

Syringe on the table, needle on the floor. DDA asks Fleak if they may have been together they may not have been. Fleak answers correct.

DDA Q: Recovered an open box of disposable hypodermic needles?

Fleak: Yes. It was on the two tables as well.

DDA Q: Recovered IV catheters?

Fleak: Yes.

DDA Q: Is it all documented in your form?

Fleak: Yes it is.

DDA Q: Recovered an empty vial of Propofol and (garbled; could be midazolam

or lorazepam, both of which were given and are given IV)?

Fleak replies vials were found between the two nightstands. DDA presents more photographs for Investigator Fleak

DDA Q: Was this an empty full, partially full bottle of Propofol?

Fleak: It was empty. (She verifies where the Propofol vial was on the floor.)

DDA Q: 200 mg bottle of Propofol?

Fleak: Yes.

Q: Some were partially used?

Fleak: Correct.

Q: The IV from the IV bag. Last page of your worksheet. “IV bag from the IV stand.”
Did it have liquid in it?

Fleak: Yes.

Q: Did you have it fingerprinted?

Fleak: I don’t remember.

Q: This IV bag had some tubing coming down from it.

Fleak: Yes. And in the tubing hand an IV in it?
Halfway from the tubing there was a clamp and that clamp had a syringe in it.
The plunger was depressed. I don’t remember if there was a small amount of liquid in the syringe.

Q: Was the plunger completely depressed?

Fleak: I don’t remember exactly where it was.

Q: Was there residue?

Fleak: I don’t remember?

Q: Was there more tubing below that IV port?

Fleak: Yes.

Read the above and compare ,two syringes one that was inserted into the port that's the one that caused MJ's death .

and the second syringe that was separated and the defence demanded the fingerprint on it be re tested ,Fleak found the NEEDLE on the floor , the hypodermic 24 gauge on the floor that Murray gave to the paramedics to use and they did use. But the syringe and the plunger remained on the table .

Tell me now how MJ was able to not only inject himself but also to put the syringe on the table before he collapsed LOL . and he used the gauge only not even the syringe ? lol

OMG how come we missed that lol

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

If you listen to Murray's lawyers Michael was able to give himself a large amount of Propofol and get back in bed and pull the covers back up

 

[Soundmind]

yeah that's exactly what they are saying lol

Q: In the main room, where was the IV bag on the stand that had the syringe in it? In that room? In this corner. (She's pointing to an exhibit on the screen with a laser pointer.)

Why wasn’t that taken on the 25th?

Fleak: I wasn’t taking anything that was injectable. I’m usually looking for pill bottles. At the time I didn’t know what Propofol was when I was there. I didn’t know it was injected intravenously. I didn’t know it would be used to administer the drugs that were there.

Q: So you saw the IV drugs there?

Fleak: I saw bottles of medications.

Q: Asks about the “broken” syringe.

Fleak: I should have described it as “separate.” It was not cracked it was not broken it was not defective in any way. They were just separate—the needle and the plunger.

Q: As you sit here now you would have described it as a broken syringe?

Fleak: No I wouldn’t it.

Q: Why did you collect that?

Fleak: It was on the ground near the bottle on the ground.

Q: Did you ask for these things to be fingerprinted?

Fleak: I don’t remember?

Q: Is it part of your role to ask for things to be fingerprinted?

Fleak: No.

Q: So (what is your role?) you collect and put away? Maintain custody?

Fleak: In a complete death investigation we have more responsibilities than just collecting and logging evidence. (A coroner's investigator) performs a body investigation, notifies families, performs a death scene investigation... (She mentioned a few more tasks).

Q: On that day, did you notice the IV with the pole with the IV syringe?

Fleak: Yes I did.

Q: Why did you not take that into custody? (Objection, asked and answered. )

Did you notice on the table some juice bottles? They were labeled the Naked Juice company.

Were they empty?

Fleak: Yes.

(Missed question)

Fleak: I did not collect those juice bottles and I did not document what was in them.

Q: You left them there at the scene?

Fleak: Yes. They were on the table next to the bed.

Q: And the syringe, was it in reachable distance of the bed? (Objection! Sustained!)
[ed. note; here we go!] How far was the syringe from the bed?

Fleak: About 2 feet.

Q: And the syringe? (Miss answer)

Q: Bottle of Propofol, how far was that?

Fleak: I don’t know if it was one foot, or..??? (Sprocket note: I missed last part of answer.)

Q: Defense attorney asks, something about what about a 136 pound, 5'9" man, could they have reached it? (Objection! Calls for speculation! Sustained!)

WTF, they are really that stupid . So what if he could have reached it, the question is could have he returned it after he injected himself ? lol

I did not even notice that was what they were claiming DAMN

 

[smoothlugar]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Thank you for answering. Yet the defence is aiming at something different...

and the second syringe that was separated and the defence demanded the fingerprint on it be re tested ,

The defence also demanded test of amounts of the propofol and the lidocaine detected in that syringe so as to determine the ratio - for their theory... (Remember the argument with Jaime Lintemoot, the toxicologist: qualitative analysis Vs quantitative).

Fleak found the NEEDLE on the floor , the hypodermic 24 gauge on the floor that Murray gave to the paramedics to use and they did use.

Was it the same type, too?

Tell me now how MJ was able to not only inject himself but also to put the syringe on the table before he collapsed LOL . and he used the gauge only not even the syringe ? lol

Don't ask me, please.:no: The defense with that separate syringe (barrel and plunger on bedtable, needle on floor) is aiming at the "needle removed after extracting propofol and lidocaine from the vials to pour its content into the juice bottle conjecture".

Rogers said that the propofol in gastric content was so tiny, almost a tenth of a miligram (0.13mg) that it would have been difficult to be even administered but defence reminded Rogers to focus on concentrations only (very "clever" on their part).

But at the same time (just in case), they were also asking about the other syringe in the port, (questions about distance to the injection port).

If none of these two work, they will go back to the third party theory. They did it in the preliminary.

 

[Kingofpop4ever3000]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Michael didn't drink that stuff and they know it. If he had've drunk it would've been in his mouth, tongue and down his throat. Besides where was Murray when his patient allegedly woke up and started drinking it?

That's what I think also. And if Michael had the propofol in his mouth and throat, that would have been included on the autopsy report as well, in my opinion. I also notice how they didn't start saying that he drank it until this year. I am wondering why this wasn't said last year. So what is going on there?

 

[elusive moonwalker]

But the syringe and the plunger remained on the table .

am i missing something cause in the testimony above it says it was in the below

Fleak: Yes. And in the tubing hand an IV in it?
Halfway from the tubing there was a clamp and that clamp had a syringe in it.
The plunger was depressed. I don’t remember if there was a small amount of liquid in the syringe.

where does it say it was on the table

 

[smoothlugar]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

And if Michael had the propofol in his mouth and throat, that would have been included on the autopsy report as well, in my opinion. I also notice how they didn't start saying that he drank it until this year. I am wondering why this wasn't said last year. So what is going on there?

Yes. The curious thing is that as Christopher Rogers (the Chief Medical Coroner) said: the amount of propofol was too tiny, almost a tenth of a miligram, difficult to administer and IMPOSSIBLE TO BE THE FATAL DOSE (0,13mg). He also said that the propofol could have come from other parts (particularly from the hemorrhage caused by CPR), but if allowing for the defence conjecture, it would have remained there in the stomach longer, and 0.13mg is not what was in the rest of the system and what caused death.

I think the trick from the defense is to compare concentrations from the rest of the system to the ones obtained in the 70ml of liquid gastric content, which as Rogers stated are too different processes (btw the one suggested by defence, totally unknown).

am i missing something cause in the testimony above it says it was in the below


where does it say it was on the table

See Soundmind post above. Remember there were two syringes collected.

 

[sophie]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

He also said that the propofol could have come from other parts (particularly from the hemorrhage caused by CPR), but if allowing for the defence conjecture, it would have remained there in the stomach longer, and 0.13mg is not what was in the rest of the system and what caused death.

I think the trick from the defense is to compare concentrations from the rest of the system to the ones obtained in the 70ml of liquid gastric content, which as Rogers stated are too different processes

the propofol concentration in stomach was lower than in blood. the part in bold: yes, the hemorrhage is very likely the reason why propofol was found in stomach.

propofol concentration in stomach: 1.8 ug/g

compare to propofol concentrations in blood: heart bl 3.2 ug/ml, hospital bl 4.1 ug/ml, femoral bl 2.6 ug/ml.


it was the lidocaine concentration in stomach which was high, not the propofol concentration.

 

[StacyJ]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

Murray had absolutely no business giving propofol for insomnia anyway

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

where does it say it was on the table

two syringes , one was inserted into the port of the short tubing and they found propofol, lidocaine and flumazenil traces in it .

the second one which is the focus of the defence team was two parts , not broken . the syringe +plunger were found on the nightstand , the hypodermic needle 24 gauge was found on the floor .

so based on the above the theory that MJ self injected is impossible , not only he could have self injected without losing conscious but was able to put the syringe back on the nightstand.so this theory is out of the window.


smoothlugar offers a very good explanation of the defence drinking theory .

propofol concentration was very small in stomach, Falgan offered their explanation" rapid distribution from the stomach ?"

he used the syringe to withdraw propofol and lidocaine and pushed them into the juice bottle then he drank it .

by claiming that, they would try and explain why there was no propofol and lidocaine in his mouth ...etc .

As for the very low propofol concentration in the stomach while lidocaine was high

propofol is 3/4 effective orally , by the time it reached those high concentrations in his blood it dropped significantly in his stomach .


because lidocaine is a first pass effect drug which means it is much less effective orally , the concentration remained high in stomach while the blood concentration was lesser by 45x

Ok, the medical examiner and Ruffelo both could not make their minds, seemed clueless at many points .

The medical examiner when asked whether popofol would end as a dark fluid he said maybe . Ruffelo was ready to throw the victim under the bus to save his own ass.

Basically they both were unprepared for this line of questioning and hopefully the prosecutors have more clear information by now.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

two syringes , one was inserted into the port of the short tubing and they found propofol, lidocaine and flumazenil traces in it .

the second one which is the focus of the defence team was two parts , not broken . the syringe +plunger were found on the nightstand , the hypodermic needle 24 gauge was found on the floor .

so based on the above the theory that MJ self injected is impossible , not only he could have self injected without losing conscious but was able to put the syringe back on the nightstand.so this theory is out of the window.

he used the syringe to withdraw propofol and lidocaine and pushed them into the juice bottle then he drank it .

by claiming that, they would try and explain why there was no propofol and lidocaine in his mouth ...etc

why use a syringe just open up the vials and pour them in. if mj drank it as they claim then diprivan etc would be found in his mouth regardless

see this is what is confusing me. there was already a syringe etc in the injection port of the short tubing so why would the defence even try to claim the syringe found on the table was the one used by mj to inject as you are implying. when have they claimed that? the line of questioning to me implied the reason the stopper was down on the syringe and it was still in the injection port was cause mj did it himself .

 

[smoothlugar]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

propofol concentration was very small in stomach, Falgan offered their explanation" rapid distribution from the stomach ?"

This was the weakest point of the defense, because Rogers said that such "distribution" would have been rather sloooowww... (and I can infer never with higher concentrations in the system).

As for the higher concentration of lidocaine in the stomach Rogers also offered other explanations (used by paramedics in CPR, defense objected they had not mentioned it, but Sophie just searched it is usually used for the intubation gear...).

I'm sure prosecutors will debunk all that silliness from the defense strategy. In the preliminary, everyone was taken but surprise, NOT ANY MORE. If we can debunk them (or being nearby), they, who have the expertise and the time, they WILL.

Thank you everyone.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

when have they claimed that?

during the hearings when they asked for the BROKEN syringe to be retested for unidentified fingerprint , this "BROKEN" syringe had propfol and demerol traces in it.

The one which was injected into the port had FLUMAZINEL , propofol and lidocaine .. Falngan said during a hearing " this was apparently used by Dr.Murray but what about the broken one?"

 

[smoothlugar]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

it was the lidocaine concentration in stomach which was high, not the propofol concentration.

Yes, yes. Anyhow the defence compared both concentrations (lidocaine and propofol) with the rest of the system and Rogers stated they were different processes. What I meant is not only what you are saying (that the concentration of propofol was higher in blood and that is what mattered as you said) but that the defence was comparing two different ways of "processing" the propofol and the lidocaine. That's why IMO, in the toxicology results both substances findings were given in miligrams (total amount) and not in concentrations.

Rogers tried to point it out... said that the total amount was too tiny...said that to go from the stomach to the rest, it would have been impossible in that short time suggested by defence since the processes had been completely different..).

PS: Sorry if I cannot explain myself better. I'm in a hurry just now..

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

demerol traces in it.

demoral?

ok i get you. so the "broken" syringe is the same one that was on the nightstand? i thought it was all found on the floor if its as u say interms of the one on the nightstand was used by mj then thats even more stupid for the defence to claim such a thing.althought it may not even be a defence as they prob tested it for prints and if there werent any of mjs on them they cant claim mj used it

re the finger print. makes me wonder if they have even bothered to try and find out whos print is on it or if its far better to just imply its some dodgy unknown print. didnt they test alberto or the medics?

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 16th

lidocaine sorry lol , yes the syringe was on the nightstand and the needle on the floor

 

[ivy]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 16th

Judge: Extensive Jury Questionnaires Planned in Trial Of Michael Jackson's Doctor


A judge said today he is finalizing a lengthy questionnaire that prospective jurors are to fill out in the trial of Michael Jackson's personal physician, who is charged with involuntary manslaughter in the singer's June 2009 death.

Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Michael E. Pastor told attorneys that the questionnaire is "hovering around 160 questions or so' that span about 30 pages.

"It's still a work in progress, although I think I'll be done by the end of the week," the judge said.

Pastor told prosecutors and attorneys for Dr. Conrad Murray that they will receive "confidential" copies of the draft questionnaire, which he said would be watermarked. He warned that he did not want it to be "floating around in the universe" and that it was "not to be given to anyone else."

Prospective jurors are due at the downtown Los Angeles courthouse on March 24 and 25, when they will be asked to fill out the questionnaires.

http://www.bhcourier.com/article/Lo...ned_in_Trial_Of_Michael_Jacksons_Doctor/75136

 

[ivy]

AP Report

A judge says he will ask prospective jurors to answer about 160 questions on a 30-page questionnaire in preparation for the involuntary manslaughter trial of Michael Jackson’s doctor Conrad Murray.

The judge set an initial round of questioning for March 24 and 25. Candidates will be ordered back in May to undergo in-person questioning about their lives and views of the case involving the death of the pop superstar.

Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor warned lawyers that he doesn’t want questions made public until the questionnaires reach jury prospects.

He also approved a defense request for access to original fingerprints taken from a broken syringe in Jackson’s bedroom. The lawyers are seeking to show Jackson injected himself with the powerful anesthetic propofol, causing his death.

Murray has pleaded not guilty.

Copyright 2011 The Associated Press.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 16th

yes the syringe was on the nightstand and the needle on the floor

thanks. that makes the defence theory redundant then

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 16th

any news on the tapes from the hearing.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 16th

read that there will be a hearing on the subpeona quashing next tuesday. i presume this ruling would be of major importance as it would knock down to some extent the defence being able to down the A route and the whole he was unhealthy route aswell

 

[kristinaz]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 16th

Do we have a date that the real trial will begin? So far the timeline seems around may or june?

 

[ivy]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 16th

Do we have a date that the real trial will begin? So far the timeline seems around may or june?

as of now - may 9th.

 

[sophie]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing Feb 28th

the defence compared both concentrations (lidocaine and propofol) with the rest of the system and Rogers stated they were different processes. What I meant is not only what you are saying (that the concentration of propofol was higher in blood and that is what mattered as you said) but that the defence was comparing two different ways of "processing" the propofol and the lidocaine. That's why IMO, in the toxicology results both substances findings were given in miligrams (total amount) and not in concentrations.

Rogers tried to point it out... said that the total amount was too tiny...said that to go from the stomach to the rest, it would have been impossible in that short time suggested by defence since the processes had been completely different..).

propofol concentration was very small in stomach, Falgan offered their explanation" rapid distribution from the stomach ?"

he used the syringe to withdraw propofol and lidocaine and pushed them into the juice bottle then he drank it .

by claiming that, they would try and explain why there was no propofol and lidocaine in his mouth ...etc .

As for the very low propofol concentration in the stomach while lidocaine was high

propofol is 3/4 effective orally , by the time it reached those high concentrations in his blood it dropped significantly in his stomach .

because lidocaine is a first pass effect drug which means it is much less effective orally , the concentration remained high in stomach while the blood concentration was lesser by 45x

Ok, the medical examiner and Ruffelo both could not make their minds, seemed clueless at many points .

The medical examiner when asked whether popofol would end as a dark fluid he said maybe . Ruffelo was ready to throw the victim under the bus to save his own ass.

Basically they both were unprepared for this line of questioning and hopefully the prosecutors have more clear information by now.

ok, the amount of propofol in stomach was very small.

rogers thinks there wasnt enough time for large amounts of the drug to have absorpted. but defence doesnt agree.

i looked up kinetics of propofol. propofol is lipid-solulable. it means absorption from GI would be fast. but distribution from vascular system and metabolic clearance rate are high too.

i wonder can concentration in stomach actually get lower than in blood in such a case? (at first, concentration in GI would be much higher, because of diffusion it would go to other areas. but shouldn't concentration in GI still at least be same as in blood? not sure)
(s. here for drug absorption: http://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/sec20/ch303/ch303b.html)

other question: would a person who's trying to ingest propofol not throw up?


and what about sade anding's testimony:

anding said she overheard "mumbling and coughing". this implies mj was still alive when murray abandoned the phone call to anding and rushed to mj's side. murray was there when mj died.

this doesn't go with the "ingestion" theory that mj died while murray was not in the room or not watching.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 16th

I know sophie, he was there when MJ was dying, no one can tell me otherwise.



they said that there's no extensive research on digesting propofol , so we might not know how the defence will argue that . Maybe that's what White is going to claim .

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 16th

i sit here reading this thread thinking to myself what has any of this got to do with the actual charges murray is facing? hes not charged with pulling the trigger so to speak. the corner already stated he would call it homicide even if mj drank injected..... it. so what is murrays defence to the charge he is actually facing. by accusing mj of drinking etc hes actually incriminating himself on the charges hes facing. hes admitting he wasnt in the room.hes charged with causing mjs death becasue of negligence. for giving dip for insomnia in a non hospital setting for not having monitoring equipment and resus equip there if anything went wrong and for not monitoring him the correct fashion in the first place. what is HIS defence to those charges? mj drank/injected it is not a defence. he went below the standard of care a dr should give his paitent and his paitent died because of it.that is the charges

but the defence will try to do anything to divert from the actual case. we have heard every defence argument going from the defence but yet we havnt heard a defence for the actual charges hes facing in a court of law. because there is no defence for what he did or didnt do so its about diverting from the facts of the case to confuse ppl.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 16th

can i just ask. the whole mj pulled the needle apart and drank it theory hence the syringe being on the nightstand is that documented in transcipts anywhere or is it just a theory (very likely correct) created by us?

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Status hearings discussion thread / next hearing March 16th

I posted the transcripts on the previous page , you might find your answer there .

as for how he will defend himself against the core of the charge

"He hired murray to give him tons of propofol but he was a responsible doctor he chose to give him only 50mg everyday that did not need monitoring and on that last day after he begged and begged he gave him only 25mg that would in no way shape or form cause his death , the coroner says he would still consider that a homicide , but what do you think dear jurors , do you blame murray for trying to help a man who at all cost would have found someone to do what Murray was hired to do , another doctor that would have given him gallons and gallons of propofol. dear jurors Murray tried his best to help him but Jackson was an addict , murray used his judgement as a doctor to help jackson but Jackson wanted more and more, if jackson did not inject himself he would have survived . would you blame Murray for something Jackson did himself ?


do you want that to be decided by 12 people? 12 people with different opinions , from all walks of lives , would they all agree on blaming Murray if they felt indeed he was only giving him very small amounts that did not need monitoring , and if indeed they were left to believe he might have only injected him with 25mg that day ?

You can't be sure 12 people will have the same view the coroner has , he stated his opinion and another expert will come to tell them Murray was not neglegent when he did not bring monitoring equipment to monitor the administration of 50 mg of propofol . so what will happen then? why would the prosecutors put themselves in this position ?