Statement from MJ Estate Pg 12 #170 / New Yorker - Did Thriller Really Sell a 100 Million Copies?

[Bubs]

Well they are the one who lead the Estate and would profit from greater income. And the 100M number is likely to generate a surge in sales as it is positive propaganda, specially if it ever is officially confirmed/proved.

Hahaa positive propaganda

When you hear you favourite band or musician (or any band or musician at all) announcement that they have sold 1 million albums, does that make you to run to shop to buy another album?

Positive propaganda doesn't work for me like that

Note, my purpose wasn't make fun of you, I just imagined the situation in my mind and that made me laugh.

I don't think it would make any difference to estate if Thriller sold 85 or 105, they can always spread their positive propaganda saying Thriller is best selling album in the world.

 

[LastTear]

Well they are the one who lead the Estate and would profit from greater income. And the 100M number is likely to generate a surge in sales as it is positive propaganda, specially if it ever is officially confirmed/proved.

I don't think they would be that stupid. Let's say they lied because it's good for business, what would happen if it was proven that they deceived MJ's fans and the general public? They would lose all credibility and therefore the opposite would happen and the estate would lose a lot of revenue. Why not say, 'because of x, y & z it is impossible (if it was impossible) to give an exact figure but we wouldn't be surprised if it was over 100 million'. Wouldn't that be better than risk fibbing?

 

[la_cienega]

As I said before, Guiness were not able to verify the sales of Thriller so you CANNOT USE THE GUINESS BOOK OF WORLD RECORDS AS PROOF.
The collection of awards MJ received from them was IMO a PR stunt (nothing wrong with that). MJ's people called Guiness and claimed a clutch of awards that were awarded and published in the next book. However, MJ's people did not provide evidence to justify the sales for the Thriller award and so Guiness withdrew that from future editions of the book. This was confirmed by the guy who runs Guiness (I forgot his name), and somebody a few posts up confirmed that the record is no longer in the book. The Guiness Book of World Record says 65million not 100million so you CANNOT USE THE GBofWR as proof!

So could you show proof that the guy who runs Guinness has said this? Thanks.

 

[Billie Jean 78]

Hahaa positive propaganda

When you hear you favourite band or musician (or any band or musician at all) announcement that they have sold 1 million albums, does that make you to run to shop to buy another album?

Positive propaganda doesn't work for me like that

Note, my purpose wasn't make fun of you, I just imagined the situation in my mind and that made me laugh.

I don't think it would make any difference to estate if Thriller sold 85 or 105, they can always spread their positive propaganda saying Thriller is best selling album in the world.

You might not work like that but I think the general public does to some limit. It would and is a prestige to claim 100M as it's the only album that can claim such a number and that alone generates a buzz in the public. And every buzz attracts an unknown number of average Joe's who would at least think about buying this album if they haven't already done so in the past.
Believe it or not, but publicity does have this effect on people. Why do you think they publicised the Bad Tour as Michael's last tour?

I don't think they would be that stupid. Let's say they lied because it's good for business, what would happen if it was proven that they deceived MJ's fans and the general public? They would lose all credibility and therefore the opposite would happen and the estate would lose a lot of revenue. Why not say, 'because of x, y & z it is impossible (if it was impossible) to give an exact figure but we wouldn't be surprised if it was over 100 million'. Wouldn't that be better than risk fibbing?

Well I think it's even more difficult to prove them wrong than it is to prove them right. Noone can prove that Thriller didn't sell 100M. The one who makes the claim has to prove it did. Otherwise I can just as well claim that that CD I made with a song I sang for my grandmother sold 100M - Can anyone prove me it didn't?

 

[HIStory]

You might not work like that but I think the general public does to some limit. It would and is a prestige to claim 100M as it's the only album that can claim such a number and that alone generates a buzz in the public. And every buzz attracts an unknown number of average Joe's who would at least think about buying this album if they haven't already done so in the past.
Believe it or not, but publicity does have this effect on people. Why do you think they publicised the Bad Tour as Michael's last tour?

I think what generates hype around Thriller is rather the fact that it's the biggest selling album of all times, not the actual number. Does it really matter if it's 66 million or 100 million? In any case it's the biggest selling album of all times. Period.

 

[Billie Jean 78]

I think what generates hype around Thriller is rather the fact that it's the biggest selling album of all times, not the actual number. Does it really matter if it's 66 million or 100 million? In any case it's the biggest selling album of all times. Period.

IMHO it really does. Just like when Michael was the first artist to sell 1M downloads in a week. Ok he sold more than 2, but everybody wrote about him being the first one who sold more than 1M.

Or when people give special attention to albums that sold more than 10M in a year.

Round numbers have a special effect on people, they really do.

Plus, if it didn't matter we probably wouldn't have gotten an article from someone arguing only the 100M number, not the fact that Thriller had sold most.

 

[Bubs]

I don't think they would be that stupid. Let's say they lied because it's good for business, what would happen if it was proven that they deceived MJ's fans and the general public? They would lose all credibility and therefore the opposite would happen and the estate would lose a lot of revenue. Why not say, 'because of x, y & z it is impossible (if it was impossible) to give an exact figure but we wouldn't be surprised if it was over 100 million'. Wouldn't that be better than risk fibbing?

Agree.I suppose if someone at Billboard mag comes across with the estates statement, and asks the executors to prove their claim for over 100 million sold! The estate either proves it, or start back pedaling with some sort of explanation.
I believe the first option in this case.

 

[Bubs]

I think what generates hype around Thriller is rather the fact that it's the biggest selling album of all times, not the actual number. Does it really matter if it's 66 million or 100 million? In any case it's the biggest selling album of all times. Period.

I agree with this one too.
White Christmas by Bing Crosby is best selling single, and that is the fact that might creates hype, and second fact that is it damn good single. It doesn't matter if White xmas sold 49 or 50 million, it is still best selling single and good one too
Same with Thriller.

 

[pierpinto1]

Hello to @pierpinto1, it's the dog with the bone again

Thanks for the access to your chart.

I have no problem with you and your beliefs about Thriller sales, I'm just interested to debate where you got your numbers and how sales were added up, and why you so firmly believe that it is not possible Thriller to sell over 100 million.
I understand where you coming from, you believe what you see, but there are people who can believe without seeing, like me in this case
My purpose is not create hate or argument between the fans, I'm just curious.

Hello,
first of all you have to know the RIAA (Recording Industry Association Of America) is an organization which takes in account and certifies only sales in THE USA.

I simply don't believe Thriller sold further 30 million copies in the missing markets because, for example, in countries like Russia or India the level of piracy is really high (In China is as high as 90%).
Thriller sold ~ 60 mill in the 80-90% of the market worldwide, so i find hard to believe it may have sold other 40 millions in the remaining countries.

 

[Bubs]

Anyways, I'm still feeling like dog, who got the bone and doesn't want to give it up

I would like to hear from fans from Russia, China and other countries that are NOT mentioned in this list

USA
CANADA
BRAZIL
ARGENTINA
CHILE
COLOMBIA
UK
FRANCE
ITALY
GERMANY
SPAIN
THE NETHERLANDS
BELGIUM
SWEDEN
AUSTRIA
SWITZERLAND
DENMARK
NORWAY
FINLAND
JUGOSLAVIA
PORTUGAL
GREECE
CZECHOSLOVAKIA
POLAND
RUSSIA
IRELAND
HUNGARY
AUSTRALIA
NEW ZEALAND
JAPAN
INDIA
HONG KONG
SINGAPORE
ISRAEL
SOUTH KOREA
AFRICA -SOUTH AFRICA

When you got your Thriller album, cassette, CD...., where did you get it, and do you have any information how sales records were counted in your country?

 

[Bubs]

Hello,
first of all you have to know the RIAA (Recording Industry Association Of America) is an organization which takes in account and certifies only sales in THE USA.

I simply don't believe Thriller sold further 30 million copies in the missing markets because, for example, in countries like Russia or India the level of piracy is really high (In China is as high as 90%).
Thriller sold ~ 60 mill in the 80-90% of the market worldwide, so i find hard to believe it may have sold other 40 millions in the remaining countries.

While I'm mulling over some questions, here is one for starters.
You have numbers for BAD album in China
CHINA - 250,000 (1987)

Is that the reason your total of sold albums stays so low, because your total is based on old numbers. In China BAD came out 87 and it sold 250,000
That number is from 1987, don't you think it might have risen since after 25 years, no matter if there if high piracy level?

Ps, you say you don't believe Thriller has sold over 100 million. Do you mean that as you take your belief from official sources, you don't believe Thriller sold over 100 million. Can you believe that un-officially Thriller has sold over 100 million?

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Personally i think to many of u are missing the point of the article . its about motives. yet again mj is being questioned his success doubted.there is a clear agenda. now i dont know if it sold 100 or 60 or whatever and tbh i dont care. but it is a fact that its the biggest selling album and thats what matters to me. this writer now has fans arguing amongst themselves.instead of celebrating the fact it is the biggest seller this writer attacks the album the only way he can by trying to downplay figures, whatever those figures maybe because regardless of the actual sales it is the biggest selling album of all time and that is what needs to be remembered.

mj was undermined his entire life. through his career through his personal life as a human as a father.attacked from all corners and this is just another example as this writer has a clear motive going by what ppl say of his history towards mj. fight that not if thriller sold 60,70 or 200 mill copies

 

[LastTear]

This has some interesting information about the RIAA

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1616537/thriller-set-overtake-eagles-top-selling-lp.jhtml

That does not necessarily mean that Thriller has sold 29 million copies, as the RIAA's certification process is based on the number of albums shipped to stores, not necessarily the number actually scanned and sold. But based on the rabid consumption of Jackson's music in the past few weeks and the hard numbers released weekly by SoundScan, it's doubtful that there is much distance between the number of CDs shipped and the number sold. If the pace continues, Thriller will become the first album to go triple diamond, meaning 30 million albums sold.
The RIAA's certifications are simply a formality, though, as Jackson'sThriller is already recognized as the top-selling album according to worldwide sales. Though numbers vary, it's reasonable to estimate that the album has moved 110 million copies worldwide since its 1982 release. As a comparison, the Eagles' Their Greatest Hits has moved an estimated 42 million — a formidable number for sure, but less than half of Jackson's total.

 

[pierpinto1]

While I'm mulling over some questions, here is one for starters.
You have numbers for BAD album in China
CHINA - 250,000 (1987)

Is that the reason your total of sold albums stays so low, because your total is based on old numbers. In China BAD came out 87 and it sold 250,000
That number is from 1987, don't you think it might have risen since after 25 years, no matter if there if high piracy level?

Of course, but the goal of my research is to report only confirmed figures from official reliable sources.

 

[bobmoo79]

No, unfortunately I can't provide proof but I read it on this board. Now I can't find it anywhere.
Whether I can prove my statement or not is irrelevant IMO because if they had proof Thriller sold more than 100million copies they would still be using the 100million figure in their book.
The Guiness Book of Records awarded MJ a prize for sales in excess of 100million. Fact.
But at some point in time since the award was presented, Guiness have decided to withdraw that claim and have replaced it with 65million (this was confirmed by another poster on this board who checked the book). The fact they are no longer using 100million is all the proof anybody should need that they are not satisfied the 100million figure is accurate.
The fact they are not confident enough to print it in their book is indicative of the accuracy of my earlier statement.

 

[Bubs]

You might not work like that but I think the general public does to some limit.

I don't know should I feel a little offended that I'm not included in general public

Just to be clear, I'm very much general public as next person.
I just don't run to shop buying something because it has sold certain amount. I might run, if I hear it is good or hear words best selling.....

 

[HIStory]

Plus, if it didn't matter we probably wouldn't have gotten an article from someone arguing only the 100M number, not the fact that Thriller had sold most.

Well, it's the only thing that can be argued. The fact that Thriller is the biggest selling album cannot reasonably be argued.

 

[Bubs]

Though numbers vary, it's reasonable to estimate that the album has moved 110 million copies worldwide since its 1982 release.

I think it is reasonable to believe un-officially Thriller has sold 200 million, one way or other, INCLUDING pirate copies of albums, cassettes, CD's etc

 

[Moonwalker.Fan]

I think it is reasonable to believe un-officially Thriller has sold 200 million, one way or other, INCLUDING pirate copies of albums, cassettes, CD's etc

:bow:

Sorry, but I have to post it again as memento...

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

A reminder from The Guiness World Records.

Click to enlarge...

I'll go by what the Guinness book of records says!

I wanna know why in this Guinnes certificate given to Michael from the pic I posted says Thriller sold more 104 million albums? Why The World Music Awards gave Michael The Diamond Award for selling 100+ albums with Thriller?PR would you say? At that moment media was interested to make Michael look bad!

[video=youtube;WviiygVo3Oc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WviiygVo3Oc[/video]

 

[Billie Jean 78]

I wanna know why in this Guinnes certificate given to Michael from the pic I posted says Thriller sold more 104 million albums? Why The World Music Awards gave Michael The Diamond Award for selling 100+ albums with Thriller?PR would you say? At that moment media was interested to make Michael look bad!

[video=youtube;WviiygVo3Oc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WviiygVo3Oc[/video]

Well it doesn't say specifically albums, it says "with sales of...". Could that be interpreted as "albums with singles included"?

 

[jamba]

This has some interesting information about the RIAA

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1616537/thriller-set-overtake-eagles-top-selling-lp.jhtml

That does not necessarily mean that Thriller has sold 29 million copies, as the RIAA's certification process is based on the number of albums shipped to stores, not necessarily the number actually scanned and sold. But based on the rabid consumption of Jackson's music in the past few weeks and the hard numbers released weekly by SoundScan, it's doubtful that there is much distance between the number of CDs shipped and the number sold. If the pace continues, Thriller will become the first album to go triple diamond, meaning 30 million albums sold.
The RIAA's certifications are simply a formality, though, as Jackson'sThriller is already recognized as the top-selling album according to worldwide sales. Though numbers vary, it's reasonable to estimate that the album has moved 110 million copies worldwide since its 1982 release. As a comparison, the Eagles' Their Greatest Hits has moved an estimated 42 million — a formidable number for sure, but less than half of Jackson's total.

Thank you!! Great find!

 

[jamba]

"Yours is an excellent post, Jamba, and I'd like to add this:

When fans in here are telling other fans to fight an intellectual fight against doubters about other aspects of Michael such as his skin condition, the child molestation charges and such, but are not willing to believe the 100 million figure, themselves, as they diss one credible source for another, they make it easy for me to realize how futile any fight for Michael Jackson on an intellectual level could ever be, because some of his own fans make this fight impossible. So I'm reduced to just shouting to strangers, and being called the usual stuff that MJ fans are called, such as crazy, because if i have this hard a time with some of his own fans, it makes it soberingly easy to understand why it would be impossible to fight the intellectual fight with facts about other aspects of Michael to complete strangers. Some fans are able to diss legit sources in favor of their own favorite idea of legit sources(the ones that state their idea of a reasonable belief..the one that limits Michael) so, what in the hell makes those fans think i can successfully convince the whole world of other of Michael's aspects?

Somebody in here, a while ago told me I could fight an intellectual fight about aspects of Michael, after I told them, no you can't because there's always people who won't listen to any reasonable argument, because their beliefs are already pre programmed, no matter what. Looks like I was right.

The fact is, the doubters haven't given a solid reason why they choose the limited belief on his sales. They just want to believe the minimized, because the minimized because "it's just morre plausible". After all the remarkable things they've seen Michael do, It's a really sad shame.

Can't they see that the twain are oxy morons?

Apparently not, to some fans.

It is so terribly sad that my prediction about some fans in here were going to diss the estate's official statement about MJ hitting the 100 mill mark, has come true."



Thanks for this great and thoughtful comment, 144,000.

Let's go back to the source of this thread: Bill Wyman's hitpiece:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...n-thriller.jpg

"In Michael Jackson’s New York Times obituary, the singer is credited with selling a hundred million copies of his most popular album, “Thriller”—and with selling an “estimated” seven hundred and fifty million records worldwide over his career. In a new book on Jackson, “Untouchable,” the writer Randall Sullivan repeats the hundred-million figure for “Thriller.” And earlier this year, fan sites were a buzzing with the news that the Michael Jackson estate had “confirmed” that Jackson had sold a total of a billion records."

Look at what he refers to for the over 100 million figure: the NYTimes obit and R. Sullivan. Do you see ANY mention of the WMA in 2006??? Do you see ANY mention of the GB of WR? or ANY other legitimate certifying agency? NO, you do not. And there is a reason for that. Bill Wyman does not have the intellectual honesty to tackle these organizations (including the Estate), so he just refers to fellow journalists (who can claim they were only reporting wjhat they were told). He is such a fake and a sleaze who did not do any proper research. He just wants to stir up a debate, a debate that is another thinly disguised attack on a man he referred to in his 09 hitpiece as "a disfigured Eurasian woman." Who wants to support this garbage? NOT ME.

Bobmoo79, What you said here is incorrect. "Also, the WMA NEVER specified the diamond award was specifically for sales of the Thriller album." How can you possibly claim the Dimond Award was not for 104 million sales of Thriller albums? It was clearly, repeatedly, stated, on stage and in the video and by MJ in his acceptance speech.

 

[qbee]

Well it doesn't say specifically albums, it says "with sales of...". Could that be interpreted as "albums with singles included"?

That interpretation would be wrong


The DIAMOND AWARD is presented to those select top-selling artists who have sold over 100 million Albums during their career.It is not presented every year.

The WORLD MUSIC AWARDS honors the best-selling recording artists from every continent. The WORLD MUSIC AWARDS are presented on sales merit and voted by the public on the internet. There is no jury involved and the Awards truly reflect the most popular artists as they are determined by the actual fans who vote and buy the records. The national member groups of the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) provide the organization with the names of the best-selling artists from the major territories. The world's best-selling recording-artists in each category are determined by a thorough enquiry conducted by the organization which includes sales figures and record certifications



Other recipients of the Diamond award are

First Diamond Award to Rod Stewart at the 2002
Mariah Carey in 2003
Celine Dion 2004
Bon Jovi 2005
Michael Jackson 2006
Beatles a 2008

http://www.worldmusicawards.com/#!awards/c1w0m

The award is for tolal albums not just Thriller and at that time the estimation was 750 Million

So although this isnt proof Michael sold 100 Million of Thriller - The know recorded numbers available to the fans is 70 Million counted by fans (lay persons) .. This is without any estimation of sales not recorded or estimation from smaller countries plus many numbers available are old and not updated. There are also other sources not available to fans which would in part be Michael's royalties from Thriller. So with those additional sales added, for over 25 years it is conceivable that at an addition million was sold for each of those 25 years. So it is not inconceivable that over 100 Million is a valid number for Thriller .. I beleive that estate has the addictional valid mumbers to back up that claim. So it very possible and not inconceivable

So you can at least be happy for Michael that it is a conceivable and reachable number for him
Even though we dont have all the proofs yet .. I know you love and want Michael to hold that record

 

[marebear]

Can I ask a side question here? How come the Beatles and Michael got the award after Mariah, Rod and Bon Jovi? Taking nothing from them but I am just curious how that works?

Back to this, lets not let this biased writer divide us. Michael isn't here but people can still go after him and try to to break us. They don't want Michael to have all this support. I am proud to know that Michael has the best selling album of all time.

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

I guess we don't have enough proofs to back up the 100+ million albums yet but the doubters have even less facts.
The Guinnes certificate, The Diamond Award and The Estate message are enough to me to believe it!

 

[Galactus123]

Thriller hasn't sold 100 000 000 copies. That is number of how much it has been shipped not actually sold. They do that for all albums. Thriller is still the biggest selling album of all time

 

[Billie Jean 78]

So you can at least be happy for Michael that it is a conceivable and reachable number for him
Even though we dont have all the proofs yet .. I know you love and want Michael to hold that record

Of course I do! I hope I didn't come across as someone who'd try to take anything away from Michael. All I would like and appreciate very much is some proof with which I could shut the mouth of anyone who seriously doubts Michael's achievement regarding Thriller. As of now I wouldn't say that Thriller HAS sold 100M, I would probably say it sold 65M with estimates going up to 100+M. If I ever had a discussion with anyone in particular...

 

[xthunderx2]

:bow:

Sorry, but I have to post it again as memento...

Lord Have Mercy...THAT is Beautiful :wub::blush:

 

[analogue]

60 million, 100 million. It doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that Thriller is the biggest selling album of all time and that's a fact that nobody can take away from Michael.