Latest on MJJC

Statement from MJ Estate Pg 12 #170 / New Yorker - Did Thriller Really Sell a 100 Million Copies?

qbee said:
That interpretation would be wrong


The DIAMOND AWARD is presented to those select top-selling artists who have sold over 100 million Albums during their career.It is not presented every year.

The WORLD MUSIC AWARDS honors the best-selling recording artists from every continent. The WORLD MUSIC AWARDS are presented on sales merit and voted by the public on the internet. There is no jury involved and the Awards truly reflect the most popular artists as they are determined by the actual fans who vote and buy the records. The national member groups of the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) provide the organization with the names of the best-selling artists from the major territories. The world's best-selling recording-artists in each category are determined by a thorough enquiry conducted by the organization which includes sales figures and record certifications



Other recipients of the Diamond award are

First Diamond Award to Rod Stewart at the 2002
Mariah Carey in 2003
Celine Dion 2004
Bon Jovi 2005
Michael Jackson 2006
Beatles a 2008

http://www.worldmusicawards.com/#!awards/c1w0m

The award is for tolal albums not just Thriller and at that time the estimation was 750 Million

So although this isnt proof Michael sold 100 Million of Thriller - The know recorded numbers available to the fans is 70 Million counted by fans (lay persons) .. This is without any estimation of sales not recorded or estimation from smaller countries plus many numbers available are old and not updated. There are also other sources not available to fans which would in part be Michael's royalties from Thriller. So with those additional sales added, for over 25 years it is conceivable that at an addition million was sold for each of those 25 years. So it is not inconceivable that over 100 Million is a valid number for Thriller .. I beleive that estate has the addictional valid mumbers to back up that claim. So it very possible and not inconceivable

So you can at least be happy for Michael that it is a conceivable and reachable number for him
Even though we dont have all the proofs yet .. I know you love and want Michael to hold that record :)
Click to expand...

Qbee, Beyonce says clearly "tonight we are celebrating 25 years of Thriller.Thriller is the biggest selling album of all time, over 104 million records worldwide sold." She is holding in her hand a Diamond Award statute, a figure holding a big diamond shape in its arms, which she gives to Michael. He then talks about how he dreamed Thriller would be the best selling album of all time. This Diamond Award is different from the GB of WR plaque that is given toi Michael after his speech. The video shown also states that Thriller has sold 104 million albums. So I don't understand how you are saying Michael did not get a Diamond Award for Thriller selling 100 million albums. This was a special Diamond Award for a specific album that had reached that enormous level of sales.

"Most WMAs overall
Mariah Carey won (17) World Music Awards
Michael Jackson won (16) World Music Awards
Most WMAs won in a single year
Whitney Houston has the record for winning five Awards at the 1994 WMA show. Some of her awards includes, "World's Best Selling Recording Artist of the Era", World's Best Selling R&B Artist, "World's Best Selling Overall Recording Artist".[6]
Michael Jackson tied this record at the 1996 World Music Awards show. Some of his awards include "Best Selling Album Of All Time", Thriller, Best Selling Male Artist of 1996, and Best Selling Artist Ever.

from Wikipedia "World Music Awards"
 
Last edited:
^ I agree entirely with bobmoo's posts. Beyonce saying 104 m 'records' is vague, probably deliberately so. The dimond award is exactly the same award given to other artists selling 100m albums during their careers. If it was just to honour one album, an unprecedented achievement, why wasn't it given a specifically named award? It's just not a good argument to use to 'prove' thriller sold 100m. The guinness awards as well don't prove thriller sold 100m, the recent guinness world record books just say thriller sold over 60m according to a poster up thread. If those guiness certifications of 100m sales mean anything, why aren't they included in the world record books? They have a reputation to protect so it would be significant if they used that 100m figure for albums.

It's a pity that a perfectly reasonable discussion about sales has been linked to wyman's article. There is such a clear agenda with writers like him in the media to question mj's sales because they don't want mj in the same league as elvis and the beatles. However, it's undeniable that sales figures in the music industry are really sketchy FOR ALL ARTISTS. I don't know how many times i've seen queen as selling 300m albums for eg. But i don't think we should shy away from questioning and probing mj's sales figures whilst on a fanforum - we're all on the same team. If arguments used to support thriller's sales don't convince some of us, they're not going to convince anyone outside here. It would be great to have some type of breakdown of the estate's figures. I want to believe that 100m figure, but i also remember mj saying thriller sold around 60 something million on fox's phm show, back in 03. Raymone bain, mj's manager, first made the claim that mj's total sales were 750,000 in 06. By 09, in her lawsuit against mj, his sales were 1 billion. Alot of claims are made.
 
Last edited:
jamba said:
:cry:

BTW, it was also said at the WMA 2006 that MJ's total sales were 750 million. Someone wants to question that too? Why not? Maybe MJ never recorded Thriller? Maybe Bubbles wrote Billy Jean. HELP!!!
Click to expand...

I really feel your feelings here^^. It is almost as though you just came back from the Twilight Zone, or worse you are stuck in it.

It is a greater burden to change the minds of fans who depend so heavily on the media for their knowledge. This is so sad because not only do you have to deal with the negative media pulling down Michaels achievements but also deal with the fans as well. People need to understand that as the media begins to feel they have overkilled writing about Michael as the weird, etc., person they will move with even greater force to attack his talent, ability & accomplishments. This is very crucial & no fan should allow it. This attack is coming more & more from reporters on the fringes of society, since not even the Estate knows about this guy in a professional way.

By the way I met someone who moved 2 times and lost all their Michael music in the process, so while out yesterday I bought a Thriller & Bad 25 at Barnes and Nobel for the person. We can add another sale of Thriller to the list here. Thriller sales are NOT static.
 
^Yeah, this thread was exhausting for arguing with stubborn people whose only proofs to disdain Thrillers sales were doubtful publications but The Estate message was really soothing for me.
 
some things are more legit than publications. Things such as people mobbing the superstar. If MJ was here today, he'd still not be safe going outside, because he would be mobbed, everywhere he goes, all over the planet. We all know this is true, because the This Is It tour kept selling out. If given the chance, tickets never would have stopped selling. We saw proof of that. And we all saw, every day of his life, he could not go outside without being mobbed, no matter where he went on this entire planet. No other music celebrity has gotten this intense treatment.

And there's seven billion people plus on the planet. We're only talking a tiny fraction of at least seven billion(which is increasing as i speak) one hundred million is a tiny fraction of 7 billion. Definition of insanity: mobbing Michael Jackson, but not having a copy of Thriller. A person mobbing Michael Jackson but not having a copy of Thriller, simply doesn't exist. The person mobbing Michael Jackson and owning a copy of Thriller does exist.
 
Last edited:
jamba said:
Qbee, Beyonce says clearly "tonight we are celebrating 25 years of Thriller.Thriller is the biggest selling album of all time, over 104 million records worldwide sold." She is holding in her hand a Diamond Award statute, a figure holding a big diamond shape in its arms, which she gives to Michael. He then talks about how he dreamed Thriller would be the best selling album of all time. This Diamond Award is different from the GB of WR plaque that is given toi Michael after his speech. The video shown also states that Thriller has sold 104 million albums. So I don't understand how you are saying Michael did not get a Diamond Award for Thriller selling 100 million albums. This was a special Diamond Award for a specific album that had reached that enormous level of sales.

"Most WMAs overall
Mariah Carey won (17) World Music Awards
Michael Jackson won (16) World Music Awards
Most WMAs won in a single year
Whitney Houston has the record for winning five Awards at the 1994 WMA show. Some of her awards includes, "World's Best Selling Recording Artist of the Era", World's Best Selling R&B Artist, "World's Best Selling Overall Recording Artist".[6]
Michael Jackson tied this record at the 1996 World Music Awards show. Some of his awards include "Best Selling Album Of All Time", Thriller, Best Selling Male Artist of 1996, and Best Selling Artist Ever.

from Wikipedia "World Music Awards"
Click to expand...

Oh Jamba :) I have to disagree. When you called out and quoted my post you used misinformation to do that. You didnt give Beyonce's whole quote - you cut if off for some reason. She said in the same breath " he sold 750 Million records wordwide"

Here is what Beyonce actually said to Introduce Michael

"Tonight we are celebrating 25 years of Thiller (give it up yall) Thriller is the biggest sellign album of all time. Over 104 million records world wide sold and Michael Jackson has sold over 750 million records during his lifetime. He's also given over 300 Million to charity during his lifetime ... "

She was introducing Michael. Not stating what the award was for past stating what he sold total. Yes they were celebrating Thrillers 25th Anniverary as well that evening and Michael he did speak about that and how proud he was. But Her words or his words can't change the rules or change what the purpose of Diamond award is for one way or another... and they didnt.

Michael recived the Diamond Award for the purpose intended and for the same reason anyone else received it.

The DIAMOND AWARD is presented to those select top-selling artists who have sold over 100 million Albums during their career.
Click to expand...

The AMA allowed the statement of 104 Million for Thriller sold as part of the package of the total 750 million albums sold, so that does give it credibilty. but No one ever stated the Award was changed just for Thriller or that it was a special award just for the Thriller album. No One .. even Beyonces words didnt imply that. she said "Thriller .. Over 104 million records world wide sold and Michael Jackson has sold over 750 million records ..."


Now This doesnt mean Michael didn't sell 104 Million for Thriller. Its just means that the Diamond Award is for ALL Michael's albums sold during his lifetime, not just for Thriller. Now I truly believe Michael sold over 104 Million for Thriller. I also believe that he he has now sold a billion records world wide. I believe we will get the information in time that proves all this, but we cant use misinformation to try and prove that becuase it ruins our credibilty.

Yes Michael also won the World Music Awards "The best selling Album of all time" :)
As you showed above but he won that in 1996. That does not refer to the 2006 Diamond award.

We really shouldnt have to be proving he did anyway. Hey no one can prove he didnt. For the most part the musical industry recognises he did. The Esate publically goes on record to state he did indeed and No one has all the statistics and data to prove other wise. All they do is speculate .. based on incomplete data
 
So how come Thriller had sold 60-odd million copies by the mid 2000's and then all of a sudden had sold over 100 million? When did it sell the other 40 million copies? And how did it do that without even entering (never mind topping) the charts anywhere?

Just asking..........
 
No One said:
So how come Thriller had sold 60-odd million copies by the mid 2000's and then all of a sudden had sold over 100 million? When did it sell the other 40 million copies? And how did it do that without even entering (never mind topping) the charts anywhere?

Just asking..........
Click to expand...
it was not the mid 2000 but early ninetiens that it had sold 60 million:)
 
arnebrits said:
it was not the mid 2000 but early ninetiens that it had sold 60 million:)
Click to expand...

I see. Thanks for the information, I'm going from memory here. But would it still not have charted very highly around the world selling another 40 million copies? Even over that time period?

I'm not trying to put MJ down here, God knows I've spent most of my life standing up for him. I'm just confused about this 100 million thing. I know the Estate said it's true, but I just wish they could back it up with some evidence. I find it hard to believe, although I would love it to be true.
 
"Oh Jamba I have to disgree. When you called out and quoted my post you used misinformation to do that. You didnt give Beyonce's whole quote - you cut if off for some reason. She said in the same breath " he sold 750 Million records wordwide"

Here is what Beyonce actually said to Introduce Michael

"Tonight we are celebrating 25 years of Thiller (give it up yall) Thriller is the biggest sellign album of all time. Over 104 million records world wide sold and Michael Jackson has sold over 750 million records during his lifetime. He's also given over 300 Million to charity during his lifetime ... " Qbee

Qbee, I have to say I am very upset about this and really at my wits' end. I don't know why you would accuse me of 'misinformation' because I didn't include the whole part that you thought I should have done. Yes, there was even more that Beyonce said and more that Michael said and more that Glenn fropm GB of WR said, etc. Am I supposed to write the whole thing down? The fact that Beyonce said about the 750 million sold, the 300 to charity, etc., I obviously know about that b/c I have listened to it a bunch of times. What I wanted to say was that she BEGINS by referring to Thriller and that tonight that is what we are celebrating. So my point was why would she start out with that, and not start out with the 750 figure if in fact the Diamond Award was for the CAREER sales and not the ALBUM sales? At least I think you could agree with me that the award that night WAS POSSIBLY for Thriller, and not state with absolute certainty that it was not. As I understand it, the Diamond Award is for sales over over 100 million--a huge amount--and that usually but not exclusively it is for career sales, but in this case it was for a specific album sale. I will grant there is some ambiguity here, what I was trying to 'call you on' was your certainty that iut was for career sales.

Frankly, this is very discouraging to me. People can and should have disagreements, but in my opinion we have to try and respect the person making the statement (even if we don't like or respect their opinion and that is sometimes a challenge when we are passionate). I am as liable to be at fault as anyone else. I intended no disrespect to you, Qbee, on the contrary, but I did not agree with what you said and tried to express why.
 
My takeaweay from this thread--sometimes it is better not to post a comment, read a comment, or even participate in fans forums or fan blogs b/c it can be an exhaustive and fruitless headbutting. On the other hand, the good things I got out of this thread 1) the statement from the Estate, 2) seeing how much love Michael got at the WMA in 2006, and 3) i LOVED the video posted where he sings the adlibs from the Brunei concert at the end of Earth Song--Tell Me What About It! I could watch that all day long!!!
 
No One said:
I see. Thanks for the information, I'm going from memory here. But would it still not have charted very highly around the world selling another 40 million copies? Even over that time period?

I'm not trying to put MJ down here, God knows I've spent most of my life standing up for him. I'm just confused about this 100 million thing. I know the Estate said it's true, but I just wish they could back it up with some evidence. I find it hard to believe, although I would love it to be true.
Click to expand...
Here is something else to consider. In the nineties, Michael was railroaded, and mistreated. Radio stations wanted to stop playing his music. People were buying his music, and some chart people did not want to acknowledge it.
It's very possible for Michael to have accomplished something and it not be reported, on purpose. I know you were around to see the mistreatment of Michael...hence your tireless need to defend him over the years, along with most of us.
 
Great the Estate clear the facts for us, but I knew that New Yorker blogger didn't accept the facts wanting us to believe that "Thriller" hasn't really reached over 100 million like Michael wanted to achieve, but they knew and we knew he's wrong.
 
jamba said:
Qbee, I have to say I am very upset about this and really at my wits' end. I don't know why you would accuse me of 'misinformation' because I didn't include the whole part that you thought I should have done. Yes, there was even more that Beyonce said and more that Michael said and more that Glenn fropm GB of WR said, etc. Am I supposed to write the whole thing down? The fact that Beyonce said about the 750 million sold, the 300 to charity, etc., I obviously know about that b/c I have listened to it a bunch of times. What I wanted to say was that she BEGINS by referring to Thriller and that tonight that is what we are celebrating. So my point was why would she start out with that, and not start out with the 750 figure if in fact the Diamond Award was for the CAREER sales and not the ALBUM sales? At least I think you could agree with me that the award that night WAS POSSIBLY for Thriller, and not state with absolute certainty that it was not. As I understand it, the Diamond Award is for sales over over 100 million--a huge amount--and that usually but not exclusively it is for career sales, but in this case it was for a specific album sale. I will grant there is some ambiguity here, what I was trying to 'call you on' was your certainty that iut was for career sales.

Frankly, this is very discouraging to me. People can and should have disagreements, but in my opinion we have to try and respect the person making the statement (even if we don't like or respect their opinion and that is sometimes a challenge when we are passionate). I am as liable to be at fault as anyone else. I intended no disrespect to you, Qbee, on the contrary, but I did not agree with what you said and tried to express why..
Click to expand...

Jamba Im so sorry if my reply seemed disrespectful. It was not intended that way. I was replying to you stating you didnt know how I could think the award wasnt just for Thriller selling 104 million and you used a quote from beyonce. leaving off that she also stated that she also stated "he sold 750 Million records wordwide" to try and show my error. I guess I also felt that was unfair. Im sure neither of us are trying to be rude or disrespectful just passionate about presenting our view. It's not that I dont like you (I do) or dont like you view ( I wish it could be proven) Im very sorry if I offended you. Ill try to be more mindful of my words;

You think the Diamond Award MJ received was different or a special award just for Thriller. and stating that is is also used for other reasons beyond career ablum sales . My reason for disputing that is there has been no statement official or otherwise ever made from anyone that The Diamond award Michael recieved is not for the same reason intended for all recipeints as stated by the official WMA.

You state
As I understand it, the Diamond Award is for sales over over 100 million--a huge amount--and that usually but not exclusively it is for career sales, but in this case it was for a specific album sale
Click to expand...
I dont see anywhere where is is stated thats usually the case but not the exclusive purpose of the Diamond Award. Im not sure how you came to that understanding. but mabe you have more info than I do to clarify why you dont thinks it just as they state on their website.

My opinion is based on that I dont think Beyonces introduction of Michael or Michael words about Thiller's 25th Anniversary can change the reason or intended purpose of the Diamond Award as stated on the WMA site. There is no ambuiguty about that statement of it's description. It very clear what the award is for IMO.
The DIAMOND AWARD is presented to those select top-selling artists who have sold over 100 million Albums during their career.
Click to expand...

Im not saying I exclusivly know the truth of this matter. I will say it is possible it was Special just for Thriller and It's fine for you to assume that if you want. But I just dont see any proof of that. We need proof of that claim to be able to except it as a fact. Maybe we can get proof by contacting the WMA and asking them. They are the only ones that can officially state if that award was special or not in Michael's case .



Example

" To whom it may concern

Can you please clarify: Was the Diamond Award Michael Jackson received a special Diamond Award presented just for his Thriller album sales or was it for all albums sales in his career as the Diamond award description states ? This was not clearly stated when the award was presented to Michael during the 2006 WMA show. Only you can officialy state what that award was presented for to clear up any misconceptions.

Thank you for your response


Sincerley,
 
jamba said:
My takeaweay from this thread--sometimes it is better not to post a comment, read a comment, or even participate in fans forums or fan blogs b/c it can be an exhaustive and fruitless headbutting. On the other hand, the good things I got out of this thread 1) the statement from the Estate, 2) seeing how much love Michael got at the WMA in 2006, and 3) i LOVED the video posted where he sings the adlibs from the Brunei concert at the end of Earth Song--Tell Me What About It! I could watch that all day long!!!
Click to expand...

Oh Jamba you can't give up!! You are discouraged by a response from another member. Can you imagine how many times Michael had to get a response from a negative person & still carry on with his head held high?? Look how many times he accepted awards and some still say he did not deserve it!! Even some of us get beaten down for something or the other every week & still have to push on, so don't become discouraged. Continue to state your points clearly & factually. Chin up & hang in there. After all you are not alone & never was!!!!

144,000 I was thinking this thread reminds me of The Million man march that was done in Washington DC in the 90s by African American men & their sons/boys. The media tried so hard to state it did not reach 1 mil. They gave varying numbers all under 1 million, when it was clear that 1mill men/boys did attend that march. They never wanted to give credit to Khan who organized it that this march would reach the targeted number, so now in print the figure is lower, even though independent professionals did say that 1 mill was reached. It is the same here--let's look at incomplete numbers to find the truth about thriller numbers.
 
Last edited:
Though there has been much progress, and the accomplishments are true and great, the playing field remains uneven.
 
Ok, I am going to hang in there, and thanks for your support. I actually have tears coming into my eyes as I write this. It so upsetting to me when I see that even Michael's fans, let alone the people who have been brainwashed, doubt his accomplishments.

Qbee, I will not back down on this, sorry, but I do appreciate your apology very much. Thank you as I respect and appreciate you too!! Big hug! I still think (until I am shown wrong), that the Diamond Award that night was for BOTH Thriller sales and career sales. Not only because of Beyonce's into, Michael's speech, the GB of WR award, but the video montage shown with the title THE DIAMOND AWARD goes right to Thriller album sales first, with the text (104 M sold) running across the screen, and then to career sales, also running in text across the screen.

The flaw in Bill W's numbers, which Bubs pointed to earlier, is enormous. He gave an interview on Soundscan as well as his New Yorker piece. He relies totally on this guy Vieira. These are his figures: 30 M albums sold in USA; 35 M albums sold in the rest of the world= 65 M sold total. Look at these numbers and you will see, as Bubs says, they do not add up. USA is a small fraction of world population, so how could total sales in USA be almost the same as total sales in the rest of the entire world?? We KNOW Michael was hugely popular in Europe and Asia (Japan). Here are 2011 figures on world population (from Wikipedia) (rounded off for ease of reporting).

Asia: 4 Billion 104 M
Africa: 994 M
Europe 738M
N. America (USA included in this count, USA population 313 M): 528 M
S. America 385 M
Australia/Oceana 36 M

So sales in USA are 30 M (population 313 M), yet sales in the entire rest of the globe is about the same (35M)?? I don't think so.

Bill Wyman wrote negative, I mean negative, stuff about Michael going back to 92 (in the Chicago Reader) where he accuses him of the whole shebang of slander thrown at him throughout his life, including the child molestation accusation that hadn't even happened yet in 92, so this guy's trashing of MJ goes back over 20 years. It is sad that these people have a forum like the New Yorker etc, to spread their poison.
 
Last edited:
^^I am happy to say that I never heard about Wyman until this article. To use his term "fetish" he seems to have a fetish with Michael Jackson.
 
ivy;3764091 said:
Statement From The Estate Of Michael Jackson Regarding Thriller

We understand that loyal MJ fans are reacting to the article that appeared in the New Yorker questioning the sales of Michael’s “Thriller” album. Let’s state this for the record: “Thriller” has sold MORE THAN 100,000,000 ALBUMS WORLDWIDE. In addition, the number of singles sold cannot even be tallied. It is far and away the largest selling album in record industry history which, ironically, the same reporter noted in the December issue of the same magazine. Quite frankly, we are unaware of the credentials of the blogger in the New Yorker, and point out that it is his opinion only, and not based on the facts of the extraordinary 30-year sales history of Michael’s masterpiece.


- John Branca and John McClain, Co-Executors, The Estate Of Michael Jackson
Click to expand...

I'm gonna go with this. Great statement. Go, Michael!!
 
This thread remained cold for a while and one day I looked for it and didn't find(was being "cleaned")... i thought it had been deleted permanently and only today noticed still existed.
I'll just make two questions to the 100 million number believers:
1) Why Guinness book backed down from their reliable 104 million number?
2) Isn't this the same State that certified the cascio tracks?
 
Last edited:
I think at this point, its obvious some people in this thread, have an agenda. Have you ever stopped and said, "Hey, the Estate has spreadsheets and numbers that I DON'T have or have access to!?" Of course not, because to some, everything is a conspiracy. Not to mention, I'm sure the Estate knows from their accounting with SONY, how much revenue was generated from Thriller, more than YOU and I know. I know some of us seem to think we are entitled to see EVERYTHING about the Estate, but the fact remains, we are NOT. I highly doubt the Estate would send out this statement, publicly clowning the guy for lieing, knowing he can counterattack, with NOTHING to back them up. I know it's called "common" sense, but sometimes it ain't as common as its called.
 
^^^ I don't know if it is agenda or something else. There are some people who has followed album charts many years and some of them have created their own charts based on "official" sales. When you spend years on your own sales record charts, I believe it would be hard for them to "come off" from their own beliefs and numbers and think they might be wrong.

By looking these charts, there are faults too, and what gets me annoyed is that they do not accept that there can be faults.
For example, in some counties don't have numbers for Thriller back in 82, but when these countries got newer systems to track albums sales, chart keepers will not go back to get Thriller numbers from those counties. In their charts it appears that if they didn't have numbers for Thriller then, then Thriller didn't sell at all! That is a fault. There are many countries that are missing from these chart keepers and not all of them are updated. We have a saying in my country, rough translation:
Small streams leads to river, river leads to sea. In other words, when you count even a small album sale numbers from all the countries, they all lead to Thriller sales+100 million:)
In my opinion it is possible, that to date Thriller could have been easily sold over 100 million.


Btw, I agree with you about the estate knowing numbers better than us from their accounting.
I would think it should be relatively easy from them to check how much of royalties came/coming in from Thriller.



Btw, this man, Bill Wyman seems to have issues with Michael, just Googled Bill Wyman Michael Jackson.
He has written many articles of Michael, none of them nice. He has his agenda why he wrote this piece about Thriller sales.
 
felipemj said:
This thread remained cold for a while and one day I looked for it and didn't find(was being "cleaned")... i thought it had been deleted permanently and only today noticed still existed.
I'll just make two questions to the 100 million number believers:
1) Why Guinness book backed down from their reliable 104 million number?
2) Isn't this the same State that certified the cascio tracks?
Click to expand...

as far as Cascio....Michael once considered Raymone Bain, dear to him. She betrayed him. When it's Michael Jackson, snakes come from everywhere..the wheat has to be separated from the tares. That doesn't mean Michael or his estate are not legit, just because they were betrayed, here or there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top