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Rolling Stones are a DISGRACE!!!

wonderouzmj said:
They know they are wrong!
https://www.facebook.com/1694291234120167/posts/pfbid0Q4uFECf3f5bFFRqZgTu1NWfx9cHnQe9shudAGxKFNezZEBcRiymdot5CAEWkHimkl
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Yes. I was very upset about it when I first saw it, but now I don't really care. Not only fans but the general public has largely spoken out against this. Michael was trending on Twitter for three days. If you look at the comments on RS and Pop Crave's posts about this placement, the vast majority are people furious about it, with a massive number of people saying he should be top 10, if not higher. Just like the RS UK King of Pop debacle with Harry Styles a few months ago, it is very obvious to me that the general public does not want to erase Michael's musical legacy.

Anyway, I found this article sort of satisfying. It was nice to see a write up about Michael that doesn't mention the allegations, either. I've been seeing less and less mention of the allegations in articles about him, including mainstream media pieces. I do believe the tide has turned, even if Rolling Stone refuses to see it.

www.sportskeeda.com

"Burn this list": Michael Jackson fans slam Rolling Stone for rating singer 86th on 200 greatest singers of all time list

Rolling Stone recently released its updated list of the '200 Greatest Singers of All Time,' placing legendary artist Michael Jackson at number 86, which angered his fans.
www.sportskeeda.com www.sportskeeda.com
 
I know this list is a crock of shit and done to get people talking...

I also hate to bring up the whole Prince v MJ debate (we know who's better)

But since when has Prince been known as a better vocalist than Michael Jackson? He's at 16 in the list.

MJ 86th Prince 16th

Based on pure vocal ability, MJ destroys Prince 99% of the time......
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
I know this list is a crock of shit and done to get people talking...

I also hate to bring up the whole Prince v MJ debate (we know who's better)

But since when has Prince been known as a better vocalist than Michael Jackson? He's at 16 in the list.

MJ 86th Prince 16th

Based on pure vocal ability, MJ destroys Prince 99% of the time......
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Prince was a great and versatile singer but I agree that Michael was a better singer.
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
Funny though that although his voice might 'not have been for everyone' he sold millions upon millions more than the majority of that top 200 list.

Not bad for someone who's voice is not for everyone 😉
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Don't make a villain out of me for not being too fuzzed about MJ only being nr 86 :p
Sure he deserves a much higher spot, this is not permanent, next time maybe he will be higher.

There are a lot of people who can't stand Bob Dylan's voice either yet he was the voice of a generation (like MJ was). I mean what can you do about it? Rolling Stone has never really been a huge fan of MJ's music so it would be a surprise if there was a huge U turn now.
 
filmandmusic said:
Rolling Stone has never really been a huge fan of MJ's music so it would be a surprise if there was a huge U turn now.
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I think the point is that this IS a U turn. Being disrespectful about MJ is their great hobby, but to drop him 60 spots over the last time they made this list? That is a notable change.

I think it's great that a lot of fans can brush it off and not be bothered. I'm not bothered anymore because of what I stated above. But I do think it's understandable why MJ being openly disrespected in regard to his artistry is upsetting to people.
 
staywild23 said:
I think it's great that a lot of fans can brush it off and not be bothered. I'm not bothered anymore because of what I stated above. But I do think it's understandable why MJ being openly disrespected in regard to his artistry is upsetting to people.
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I remember being upset about it when the former list got published. Michael simply will never be as highly regarded as his peers by music journalists/writers. I'm used to it now.

I'm sure there are other lists out there that have Michel higher, concentrate on those lists instead.
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
I know this list is a crock of shit and done to get people talking...

I also hate to bring up the whole Prince v MJ debate (we know who's better)

But since when has Prince been known as a better vocalist than Michael Jackson? He's at 16 in the list.

MJ 86th Prince 16th

Based on pure vocal ability, MJ destroys Prince 99% of the time......
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Listen to ''Solo''. They're equally talented
 
I think vocal performances on songs like Smooth Criminal, Shout, This time around, tabloid junkie, can't let her get away etc aren't helping much. Call me deluded but I am convinced a lot of people really don't like his voice.

But this is how MJ wanted to sing from the 90s onwards, people have forgotten how good he could sing when he didn't distort his voice.
 
I‘m officially boycotting Rolling Stone! Use the hashtag #BoycottRollingStone
 
filmandmusic said:
I think vocal performances on songs like Smooth Criminal, Shout, This time around, tabloid junkie, can't let her get away etc aren't helping much. Call me deluded but I am convinced a lot of people really don't like his voice.

But this is how MJ wanted to sing from the 90s onwards, people have forgotten how good he could sing when he didn't distort his voice.
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I'm sorry! I am not picking on you, I swear lol. It's just you keep saying things that are infuriating to me 😂 😂 😂

In all seriousness, I just don't get this. When I think of Michael as an amazing singer I think of his ballads (from all eras), the character and personality in his voice (again, all eras), and then I think about his range. Not just his octave range, but his range in style. Every song you mentioned here are songs that make me lose my mind over his talent and versatility. I LOVE his spitting vocals. I love the rawness of it all. I love to play 'heal the world' or 'she's out of my life' and follow it up with 'tabloid junkie' or 'blood on the dance floor.' 'Morphine' is one of my favorite songs because I love hearing two distinct sides of his vocal personality in one track. This versatility is actually a huge part of why I think he should be considered a top tier vocalist.

But beyond that, aside from 'Smooth Criminal' I'm not so sure the general public even knows any of the songs you mentioned. But even if they did, the same albums where these songs come from have some beautiful vocal performances like 'gone too soon,' 'heal the world,' 'stranger in moscow,' and 'childhood' all of which have music videos and, in theory, are probably better known by the average person, right? Maybe not. Either way, I've genuinely never met a person who questioned Michael's talent. It's probably the one thing about him no one (by this I mean the general public) ever seems to question.

The bottom line, for me, is that this list was made without actually considering anything about Michael's talent. It's obvious the list is deeply flawed by its many glaring omissions and obvious misplacements. It's pretty clear they did all of this quite intentionally in order to generate clicks and gain traffic. They succeeded in that.
 
Aretha Franklin, Mariah Carey , Beyonce , Bob Dylan, Prince , Aaliyah, Stevie Wonder , John Lennon , Kurt Cobain, David Bowie, Paul McCartney Mick Jagger, Robert Plant , Bruce Springsteen, D’Angelo, Rihanna, Bjork, Lady Gaga, Willie Nelson, Rod Stewart, Arriana Grande ......plus many more who are better singers that Michael Jackson.
 
The MJ community should be up in arms at this total lack of respect for Michael Jackson.

This move from Rolling Stone just belittles Michael and makes him feel like a total chump.

A few months ago they were calling Harry Styles the king of pop FFS.
 
I grew up with gospel mus
BuffaloBill87 said:
Bob Dylan, ......plus many more who are better singers that Michael Jackson.
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I grew up with gospel music and there's many gospel/spiritual singers that are better than Bob Dylan, such as Rance Allen, The Clark Sisters, & Tramaine Hawkins. But RS has never focused much on religious music. Many of the early R&B/soul singers came from a gospel or church background. Elvis Presley was influenced by the singers at the Black churches he went to when he was growing up. Dylan isn't generally rated for his vocals, but his songwriting. And Rolling Stone is one of the primary publications that started the idea of self-writing to be of more importance than just a singer. Dylan also does not have many big radio hits, unless you count other acts who covered his music. New Kids On The Block has more Top 10s on the Hot 100 than Bob Dylan and their initial popularity didn't even last long. Dylan is like The Grateful Dead, they never really a big presence on the radio, but still had long careers as touring acts.

Pre-Beatles, it was very rare for a mainstream popular act to write their own songs. Sam Cooke was one, but he also did a lot of remakes of showtunes. The pre-rock audience didn't care if Johnny Mathis or Dean Martin wrote songs or not. Most of them recorded the same material which became known as standards, Tin Pan Alley, or Great American Songbook. Also with rock music (which was RS main focus, until it fell out of mainstream popularity and hip hop replaced it), technical singing ability was never really a criteria. That's how The Rolling Stones (band) is one of the biggest selling acts in the history of record music. Their current tours are still big moneymakers.
 
staywild23 said:
I'm sorry! I am not picking on you, I swear lol. It's just you keep saying things that are infuriating to me 😂 😂 😂
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It’s ok, I know what I have said here is controversial.
staywild23 said:
In all seriousness, I just don't get this. When I think of Michael as an amazing singer I think of his ballads (from all eras), the character and personality in his voice (again, all eras), and then I think about his range. Not just his octave range, but his range in style. Every song you mentioned here are songs that make me lose my mind over his talent and versatility. I LOVE his spitting vocals. I love the rawness of it all. I love to play 'heal the world' or 'she's out of my life' and follow it up with 'tabloid junkie' or 'blood on the dance floor.' 'Morphine' is one of my favorite songs because I love hearing two distinct sides of his vocal personality in one track. This versatility is actually a huge part of why I think he should be considered a top tier vocalist.
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I agree but I’m not a big fan anymore of his distorted singing style, I do like that it is unique in sound. I used to adore it and I still like it but , I am too much into his soft singing voice these days, The angry side of MJ is not at the top of my list anymore.
When I was a teenager and well into my 20s it was the other way around so maybe it is a phase.

Perhaps we need to send the live performance of “gone too soon” to RS and make them eat their words? While we’re at it we can also send “one day in your life“ and “music and me” from live in Mexico. Have these people even heard stuff like this I don’t think they have and that is why he is so low. It’s going to be hard to make him rise though when 75% of live footage of MJ on youtube is of him lip syncing. Nobody can convince me this isn‘t part of why he is so low.
Another reason to release the triumph and victory tours…
staywild23 said:
But beyond that, aside from 'Smooth Criminal' I'm not so sure the general public even knows any of the songs you mentioned. But even if they did, the same albums where these songs come from have some beautiful vocal performances like 'gone too soon,' 'heal the world,' 'stranger in moscow,' and 'childhood' all of which have music videos and, in theory, are probably better known by the average person, right? Maybe not. Either way, I've genuinely never met a person who questioned Michael's talent. It's probably the one thing about him no one (by this I mean the general public) ever seems to question.
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Considering the people who compiled this list are professional music writers I think they have heard the Dangerous and HIStory albums upon release to review them. The music of an artist of Michael’s calibre always gets heard.
I was very surprised a week ago when I found out that a respected country artist and a very respected trumpeteer made MJ tribute albums and they included covers of songs like HIStory, privacy and speechless. I linked a bunch of names to that thread, yours included but the interest clearly isn’t there as nobody but agonum and zinnia responded 😝
staywild23 said:
The bottom line, for me, is that this list was made without actually considering anything about Michael's talent. It's obvious the list is deeply flawed by its many glaring omissions and obvious misplacements. It's pretty clear they did all of this quite intentionally in order to generate clicks and gain traffic. They succeeded in that.
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I don’t know, I don’t want to claims such stuff, maybe you are right but I hope you aren’t. I would have more problem with them bringing MJ down despite his talent than them genuinely not loving his voice. You know what I mean?
 
DuranDuran said:
I grew up with gospel mus

I grew up with gospel music and there's many gospel/spiritual singers that are better than Bob Dylan, such as Rance Allen, The Clark Sisters, & Tramaine Hawkins. But RS has never focused much on religious music. Many of the early R&B/soul singers came from a gospel or church background. Elvis Presley was influenced by the singers at the Black churches he went to when he was growing up. Dylan isn't generally rated for his vocals, but his songwriting. And Rolling Stone is one of the primary publications that started the idea of self-writing to be of more importance than just a singer. Dylan also does not have many big radio hits, unless you count other acts who covered his music. New Kids On The Block has more Top 10s on the Hot 100 than Bob Dylan and their initial popularity didn't even last long. Dylan is like The Grateful Dead, they never really a big presence on the radio, but still had long careers as touring acts.

Pre-Beatles, it was very rare for a mainstream popular act to write their own songs. Sam Cooke was one, but he also did a lot of remakes of showtunes. The pre-rock audience didn't care if Johnny Mathis or Dean Martin wrote songs or not. Most of them recorded the same material which became known as standards, Tin Pan Alley, or Great American Songbook. Also with rock music (which was RS main focus, until it fell out of mainstream popularity and hip hop replaced it), technical singing ability was never really a criteria. That's how The Rolling Stones (band) is one of the biggest selling acts in the history of record music. Their current tours are still big moneymakers.
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Very grateful for the insight and I enjoyed reading through that but what are you trying to say?

That Bob Dylan is more important than MJ and deserves his spot above him?

To me, Bob Dylan sounds like he's chewing a wasp whilst attempting to sing.
 
BTW good tweet by Isaac Hayes III
what if Ebony made a top 200? Surely MJ would be top 10? They should do it!
 
filmandmusic said:
It’s ok, I know what I have said here is controversial.

I agree but I’m not a big fan anymore of his distorted singing style, I do like that it is unique in sound. I used to adore it and I still like it but , I am too much into his soft singing voice these days, The angry side of MJ is not at the top of my list anymore.
When I was a teenager and well into my 20s it was the other way around so maybe it is a phase.

Perhaps we need to send the live performance of “gone too soon” to RS and make them eat their words? While we’re at it we can also send “one day in your life“ and “music and me” from live in Mexico. Have these people even heard stuff like this I don’t think they have and that is why he is so low. It’s going to be hard to make him rise though when 75% of live footage of MJ on youtube is of him lip syncing. Nobody can convince me this isn‘t part of why he is so low.
Another reason to release the triumph and victory tours…

Considering the people who compiled this list are professional music writers I think they have heard the Dangerous and HIStory albums upon release to review them. The music of an artist of Michael’s calibre always gets heard.
I was very surprised a week ago when I found out that a respected country artist and a very respected trumpeteer made MJ tribute albums and they included covers of songs like HIStory, privacy and speechless. I linked a bunch of names to that thread, yours included but the interest clearly isn’t there as nobody but agonum and zinnia responded 😝

I don’t know, I don’t want to claims such stuff, maybe you are right but I hope you aren’t. I would have more problem with them bringing MJ down despite his talent than them genuinely not loving his voice. You know what I mean?
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I'm sorry but what a load of rubbish.

Michael was arguably the most famous person in the world and undoubtedly the biggest music star during his peak

If 'pro music writers' don't know about MJ's vocal ability and he is placed at 86 due to his aggressive singing style only then that is madness.

We don't need to send them performances of one day in your life etc , if they've ever listened to a Michael Jackson album they will be well aware that he was a fabulous singer.

This is purely a way to shock people and get them talking.
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
If 'pro music writers' don't know about MJ's vocal ability and he is placed at 86 due to his aggressive singing style only then that is madness.

We don't need to send them performances of one day in your life etc , if they've ever listened to a Michael Jackson album they will be well aware that he was a fabulous singer.
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Well it would never hurt. Gone too soon live 93 is my favorite live vocal performance ever. Even the Clinton’s had seemingly the beginning of tears in their eyes.
I can’t get over it but that is what I always hoped to see more of Michael. We all have our preferences.
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
I'm sorry but what a load of rubbish.

Michael was arguably the most famous person in the world and undoubtedly the biggest music star during his peak

If 'pro music writers' don't know about MJ's vocal ability and he is placed at 86 due to his aggressive singing style only then that is madness.

We don't need to send them performances of one day in your life etc , if they've ever listened to a Michael Jackson album they will be well aware that he was a fabulous singer.

This is purely a way to shock people and get them talking.
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That’s just mental gymnastics by filmandmusic to justify this decision which is totally unjustified. Everybody knows it not just “MJ fans”. I was going to reply to that comment but it was just complete rubbish, revisionist and willfully ignorant.

So if they didn’t like mikes “distorted” singing style then why is Kurt cobain placed somewhere in the 30s? First it was the lipsynch that was the issue now it’s the singing style etc. Just knock it off.
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
Aretha Franklin, Mariah Carey , Beyonce , Bob Dylan, Prince , Aaliyah, Stevie Wonder , John Lennon , Kurt Cobain, David Bowie, Paul McCartney Mick Jagger, Robert Plant , Bruce Springsteen, D’Angelo, Rihanna, Bjork, Lady Gaga, Willie Nelson, Rod Stewart, Arriana Grande ......plus many more who are better singers that Michael Jackson.
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Hold tf up!! Smh you're way tf off!!
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
Very grateful for the insight and I enjoyed reading through that but what are you trying to say?

That Bob Dylan is more important than MJ and deserves his spot above him?

To me, Bob Dylan sounds like he's chewing a wasp whilst attempting to sing.
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He is to the 1960s hippies, of which the original founders of the magazine are the same generation. Hippies were the original readers of RS. That's how until fairly recently, The Beatles always had several albums in RS 20 best albums in history. RS are also behind the Rock n Roll Hall Of Fame. Notice they don't induct adult contemporary acts like Barry Manilow & The Carpenters, who were popular in their day, but has inducted Biggie Smalls, who had only released 1 album before he was killed. His 2nd album came out after he passed. Manilow wasn't considered cool by RS. They don't even induct many actual rock acts because they don't fit their "blues rock" criteria. Eric Clapton has been inducted 3 times, but few progressive rock, metal, & southern rock bands got in.

Anyway, the main readers of RS have always been white (the same as most mainstream magazines in the USA, music & otherwise), so of course, that's what the artist focus is. There's a reason that Ebony, Right On! & Jet existed. The Jackson 5 got more coverage in those than in Rolling Stone, Creem, & People magazines.
 
@DuranDuran I just want to say, I really appreciate all of your musical knowledge. Your posts are very informative and provide great context! Thanks :)
 
Michael being at #86 is a joke. And there were so many great singers that didn't even make the list. Like Morten Harket from a-ha. That high note in Take On Me deserves him a place on that list. And Phil Collins deserves to be there too. Just listen to the Genesis songs Mama, Home By The Sea or Domino.
 
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