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Randall Sullivan's book "Untouchable"

Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

la_cienega said:
^ Why is she an authority on who Jackson was? You don't need to know anyone around Jackson to come to the conclusion that so much of what is written is baseless. Why is anyone acting as if this book is so important to both Jackson and the fans that we MUST delve deeper into it like we won't survive without it?

I like David Nordahl but we don't need him to go over this book in order to come to the determination that so much is piffle - we know Lisa and MJ really married and it wasn't a sham, we know he had a nose, we know he had vitiligo, we know he had lupus, we know Jordan and the Chandler's were full of BS, we know MJ did not masturbate on the phone to children. Why would you need to speak to an outside source to confirm that? Just do basic research.

Sorry, she's just helping push this book further, and she's too busy wanting to seem "nice" to realize she's just being used. Fans should not be doormats. If we don't demand writer's treat stories with integrity, who will? If she kisses his ass, it just encourages the solidification of the perception of Jackson with people: noseless, sexless, genderless, raceless, childless. Is that something she wants to help spread just because she wants to be nice to this poor man who was paid to do a proper job, and is not doing some charity effort?

Yes, there were crazy people around Jackson - and this book makes Sullivan someone to add to the collection. He isn't an observer to this madness, he is an active circus leader and participant.

I'm not going to pander and kiss anyone's ass just because they don't outright condemn him.
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^^Brilliant. I don't get this woman. Saying that we represent Michael & acting as though how we behave reflect on him is doo doo. Michael behaved well, polite, true, caring, sane, ethical, loving, etc., ALL the time, and he was treated with MORE disdain than fans are. I personally do not care if people call me crazy, because I am not, and Michael was called worse and lived to endure it.

Now she is going to read a book to see what--if we are all talking nonsense and then what will she do? Tell us it is ok to buy the book? I get the feeling that Deborah does not know too much about this Sullivan situation, especially since people have to send her links. She needs to read the articles, look at the interviews, read the book before commenting on people's behavior.

She blames fans for actions that even Sullivan and his team does. She needs to come to the conclusion that the behavior of fans and the labels have nothing to do with each other, in the same way that the characterization of Michael in the media has little to do with who Michael really is or the truth. As long as reporters focus on habits/behaviors of Michael which they exaggerate rather than on his music & contributions, they will continue to call Michael fans crazy & fanatics. They are not going to treat Michael with disdain & shower his fans with nice superlatives. Look at how many charity projects we work on & still we are called names, in the same way Michael gave most to charity & was still called names. Therefore, I do not want to hear any more about how if fans act a certain way they will be labeled and that is bad for Michael. We will be labeled regardless!!!!

Branca once made a comment in an article that he could be a SOB (paraphrase) when the situation calls for it. I agree with that idea. There is a time for polite action and working withing boundaries to get things done. However, there comes a time when you have to look at what is happening & show a different side of your personality or activism to overthrow the opposition. Michael lived with these people badgering & pulling him down from the late 70s to AFTER his death by being the good guy. You want to tell me that we have to continue the good guy behavior? If it did not work for Michael, it will not work for us, so it is time to shake up the reporters/writers who continue the same persecution.

TMez did a good job with the trial & his interviews about the trial, but he cannot be a criteria for buying Sullivan's book. The book is more than TMez. I want to see if he is going to write a 5 star review for Aphrodite's new edition book that is already out. Shouldn't he be writing blogs about her book too, since her book shows MORE about the trial than Sullivan's does?

Also, this behavior by some fans, like Deborah, of acting as if there is a hierarchy of fans who have the best knowledge & others should listen to them & do what they say, & they should tell us what to do & chastise us if we misbehave needs to stop.
 
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Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

Hi, I am the creator of the Michael Jackson Rapid Response Team page and the spokes person who was interviewed by NYT is my brother Steve. I know that we were outted by a fake MJ fan in our mist to the press and the only reason we agreed to the interview is because the writer assured us he was going to publish the article with or without our input. Now our dilemma is how best to move forward. We have our suspensions that a certain well known group is behind our exposer. Whatever we decide to do however rest assured we will never stop fighting for MJ.
 
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Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

Victory22 said:
Hi, I am the creator of the Michael Jackson Rapid Response Team page and the spokes person who was interviewed by NYT is my brother Steve. I know that we were outted by a fake MJ fan in our mist to the press and the only reason we agreed to the interview is because the writer assured us he was going to publish the article with or without our input. Now our dilemma is how best to move forward. We have our suspensions that a certain well know group is behind our exposer. Whatever we decide to do however rest assured we will never stop fighting for MJ.
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Don't worry about it, I'm sure that as the writer has said he would have wrote the article without your comment. It's good that you at least had a chance to explain yourself and defend Michael.
 
Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

Victory22 said:
Hi, I am the creator of the Michael Jackson Rapid Response Team page and the spokes person who was interviewed by NYT is my brother Steve. I know that we were outted by a fake MJ fan in our mist to the press and the only reason we agreed to the interview is because the writer assured us he was going to publish the article with or without our input. Now our dilemma is how best to move forward. We have our suspensions that a certain well know group is behind our exposer. Whatever we decide to do however rest assured we will never stop fighting for MJ.
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Victory tell him that first, learn to be more cautious with papers whose reputation in relation to Michael is known. He already knew that Sullivan had his friends in NYT, so they would not write about the group's actions in a way that shows Sullivan is unethical. Being blackmailed (they were going to write anyway) was no reason for speaking to the paper. Second, set up a huge team with permanent members, that the media has no access to. He should mobilize the team in secret whenever similar actions have to be taken & do not take in any new members when a campaign is going on.
Third, in regards to this Sullivan situation, it was suggested that we do not give it more attention in order to discourage new sales, or have people up vote & down vote.
 
Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

ivy said:
Don't worry about it, I'm sure that as the writer has said he would have wrote the article without your comment. It's good that you at least had a chance to explain yourself and defend Michael.
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Thanks so much for your support it means the world to us as we try to regroup and reposition ourselves.
 
Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

Petrarose said:
Victory tell him that first, learn to be more cautious with papers whose reputation in relation to Michael is known. He already knew that Sullivan had his friends in NYT, so they would not write about the group's actions in a way that shows Sullivan is unethical. Being blackmailed (they were going to write anyway) was no reason for speaking to the paper. Second, set up a huge team with permanent members, that the media has no access to. He should mobilize the team in secret whenever similar actions have to be taken & do not take in any new members when a campaign is going on.
Third, in regards to this Sullivan situation, it was suggested that we do not give it more attention in order to discourage new sales, or have people up vote & down vote.
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Yes we know we have to close off the group and purge it. We are working on it now.We'll get through this attack and come out even stronger.
 
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Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

Certain things will keep repeating themselves. People around Michael would do just about anything to either get close to him and didn't mind losing their integrity in order to stay around. That mechanism seems to extend to fans as well. And you can tell by the alliances that some fans are willing to forge and with what kind of Michael's former associates etc they want to be acquainted. All for that 'hint of closeness' to Michael.

Now, as we all know there's a lot of grey in life besides black or white. And I get that some might be extremely tempted to do just about anything to stay in the good graces of Mr. Mesereau. And I'm sure it's possible to just agree to disagree and sometimes it's wise to just drop the subject. Nothing will be accomplished by ramming one another's standpoints down the respective throats. Many fans have made clear what their objections are, so did Mr. Mesereau. Is that really satisfactory? No, not really.

But it would be far too much to ask from my integrity and me to 'try hard to love' Sullivan. Being a loving (and/or) spiritual person does not require 'trying to understand Sullivan'. Trying to play nice with all sides will backfire because a certain people LOVE to railroad those who will give them the opportunity.
Giving Sullivan a platform to spread ambiguous venom. Divide and conquer at it's best! Those who are hellbent 'becoming xyz' will be more than glad to appeal to the best in you. "Be nice, play nice, you say Michael Jackson, why are you condemning?" yadda yadda. Not wanting to lose the Mr. Mesereau connection and wanting play all sides will backfire.

Btw, whenever someone drives forward at all costs with a proclaimed religious bent and considers themselves on a heavenly mission for Michael...I run. This is not a test a test allegiance, neither religious, nor personal.
I think we're all well capable of thinking for ourselves. As LaCienega, said... As much as I appreciate the tidbits that some of Michael's friends share with us - Michael's life and actions in life do tell me a lot. But I am not about to develop some type of co-depency and hang on those lips of those who claim some type exclusive insights. There's a pattern here that seems to repeat itself over and over and over again. Get close, or at least feel close to Michael. Whatever elevated status this seems to promise.. it's not real.

So much about Reflections and other blogs who seem to be at the constant epicenter of missions for Michael. That seems to be more about battling personal issues and choosing Michael as the explanation. All this stuff has nothing to do with Michael, his art or his purpose - and all the more with those that made life hell for him here on Earth. Same thing. Somebody ALWAYS wants to be the one in the know. For the most part - what many(most, a minority does not) chose to say about Michael is more a reflection of themselves and not of Michael. Always been that way and is very human. The latest Sullivan saga is just another chapter in that pattern. From Mozart, to Tschaikovsky to Michael - there has always been the battle of the biographer that later goes down in history as rather ambitious and even grossly misrepresenting the artist they seem to admire. Obsession with Beethoven's supposed quirks, the first Mozart biographers etc - everyone had their own agenda. Great artists seem to attract a range of people who practically seem to soul search themselves through the artist, often in rather bizarre ways.
 
Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

Are we cool guys? Aren't you angry at me for letting you know what she's been doing regarding this book?

i thought the multiple amazon reviews were enough to realize how worthless that crap book is. If she's seeking the truth for Michael is strange she's helping someone who has attacked him for years. Isn't Sullivan a Rolling Stone "journalist"? That mag known for being unfair and racist to Michael.

I'm sorry if I made you angry, I don't like how she's giving attention to the book either and since she can contact people involved in it, I thought important to point it out.
 
Hey, I wanted to tell you that I contacted Amazon customer service. I told them b/c I am a purchaser and reviewer of their books, I don't like that they are allowing other reviewers to attack other reviewers with nasty, hateful labels. They sent me back an email (from Adele S.) saying they were going to look at each and every review to see if it followed their guidelines and also they would forward my complaint to their guidelines team--I referred of course to the over 100 bogus and often nasty 5 star reviews posed since the NYT piece came out.

Here are some of the guidelines that Amazon has for reviews that are being violated:


Customer reviews should be relevant to the product in question.

What's not allowed
Amazon is pleased to provide this forum for you to share your opinions on products. While we appreciate your time and comments, we limit customer participation to one review per product and reserve the right to remove reviews that include any of the following:

Objectionable material:
• Obscene or distasteful content
• Profanity or spiteful remarks
• Promotion of illegal or immoral conduct

Written reviews must be at least 20 words

http://www.amazon.com/gp/community-help/customer-reviews-guidelines

They should also remove reviews that clearly state right out in the open they have not read the book and are only posting to attack 'demented' fans. (I did not post all the guidelines. I put in the rule that the review should be relevant to the product b/c if the review is there just to attack fans (and some reviews come right out and say that) it is not really revelvant to RS's book but only to the NYT article--which is not the same thing as the book itself).

I think people need to consider making their own complaints to Amazon to say that they are not enforcing their own guidelines by allowing what is essentially hate speech attacking other reviews that were negative, MJ fans, and MJ himself. Amazon has to act and not let this happen. They have a responsibility b/c MJ fans and advocates buy a lot of books there and also they need to support well-written, thoughtful reviews, and not hate speech.
 
Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

About this particular issue re the fan community, ROTD, T. Mez, and so forth, I would like to say that the media needs to realize that Michael has a lot of fans, supporters, advocates, and that they are not a uniform block with one mindset, theey are not a unified group that agrees on each and every point. In other words, it's a diverse group of people with different approaches and points of view and different focal points. No group, esp. a large group, can be described as a single, unified block. We are humans--hello?? Do humans agree on everything--NO!! Humans disagree on every possible thing.

This is where the NYT piece did a massive fail. The writer (may he burn in shame) lumped all fans into one category and the people who read his article fell for it hook line and sinker and rushed to defend poor wittle baby Randall from those nasty, mean, MJ fans. The only problem with that, as we know, if RS is far from alone and isolated--he has had massive media support--massive and really unprecedented for a book that did not get good reviews from book reviewers, including the reviewer of the NYT. And not all fans had not read the book or were engaged in an attack on RS that was coordinated as the NYT tried to say it was.Of course, we discuss things on forums, blogs, and why not? That is our right to do. This does not translate into something that can be falsely described as a smear campaign. MJ supporters, as we know, have legitimate problems with this book (and how).

I see the point that the media has not been fair to MJ and to his supporters from day one. On the other hand, we can only convince the general public by being reasonable, presenting facts, staying as calm as we can (and I lost it over this thing so I know where you are coming from), taking a deep breath and realizing over and over again

"Lies run sprints. The truth runs marathons."

We are in a marathon. We will win. But we need to stay focused on the goal we share--love and appreciation for Michael Jackson, the King of Pop, Soul, and Rock and Roll. Let's try not to attack each other, especially, and any fighting against the media that loses it (while totally understandable) will just bring attacks from the general public, which the media has by the 'you know what' (lol).
 
Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

Can someone tell me about the friends Sullivan has at the NYT--if you have more info it will be appreciated. I know that an editor from O magazine (Sara Nelson), got hired as an Amazon editor and then posted a positive review of Sullivan's book, which was also one of the Book of the Month picks at Amazon in November 2012, so yes, he has friends all over the media.
 
Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

Snow White luvs Peter Pan said:
Are we cool guys? Aren't you angry at me for letting you know what she's been doing regarding this book?

i thought the multiple amazon reviews were enough to realize how worthless that crap book is. If she's seeking the truth for Michael is strange she's helping someone who has attacked him for years. Isn't Sullivan a Rolling Stone "journalist"? That mag known for being unfair and racist to Michael.

I'm sorry if I made you angry, I don't like how she's giving attention to the book either and since she can contact people involved in it, I thought important to point it out.
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Nonono, not at all. I'm sorry I didn't add that, I'll edit my post. Not mad at you AT ALL. I just couldn't edit my posting from my phone and had to wait until I got back to my computer...

There has to be a space where this can be discussed - and as you can see, some of us have a need to discuss these things. I personally don't feel like putting any individuals through the ringer - it was just a trend that I have noticed in general and something I personally have run into it not just once or twice. Hence 'the trend'.

I have friends who are much more blunt about their thoughts and even if they have stated these concerns directly, but without any need for name calling on certain FB pages and/or blogs - they got a 'chewing out' and simply got banned. We're not talking about being banned for name calling, threats or the like. That would be understandable.

For example - while most that know me will take a guess and say "Christian", albeit a rather freaky one...I could easily pull the offended card when a blog/page that supposedly deals with Michael Jackson feels the need to lecture on "Satan Deception in Marian apparitions" (please don't think I am making this up!!) and this was mirrored in Michael' s art. ????
Rather strange approach that easily alienates Agnostics, Atheists, Muslims, Hindus, fellow Christians that do not subscribe to a North American Evangelical Christian viewpoint - and a lot of people in between.

As has been pointed out Michael is one of those artists who had an absolutely universal appeal and sought to unite.
This is the man who showed great respect in adjusting his choreography by respecting local sensibilities - no matter his own beliefs. So obviously there was a certain diplomacy required and obviously Michael 's fans of different beliefs don't take offense by him singing "You'd crucify the Lord"...
But here's the difference. That was Michael himself and it is therefore hard for many of us to accept religious lectures and when asked about his views he stated his views, Michael always responded quite diplomatically and not once did I feel preached upon. On the contrary, I felt I might feel quite different on a subject - but that actually is quite alright. Again, all are equal to voice their opinion and beliefs.
Which is simply why I was not just surprised, but appalled that such lovely opportunities such as to speak to various associates make me wonder what is to be achieved in the end.
Of course Mr. Mesereau wouldn't be very inclined to sit down on someone's couch when he has the feeling of being picketed by the moral compass police of MJ fans.

But, perhaps it would be a good idea to simply interview Mr. Mesereau without trying to stretch oneself too far. With integrity. What would Michael think if I claim sympathy with the horrible ordeal he went through - and turn around and say it's cool when the circus and 'freakshow' characterization is being continued? I mean, diplomacy does have ends. Sullivan's utterings on TV were what broke the camel's back.

I think Sullivan needs to realize that if one expects major sells through Amazon - then one needs to deal with the structure of that particular venue. And as it so happens reader reviews are the next best thing since sliced bread. Whenever I order anything I habitually read the best, the worst and the medium reviews. When a bad product for an electric toothbrushes says "I despise electronic toothbrushes because I can", then I do find that equally as redundant as the 5 star review that reads "Because I love electronic toothbrushes!!!!!!!!! How many likes?????????????". And imagine how much garbage we would have to wade through as MJ fans if we would seriously buy every item without knowing anything about it.

And please imagine Dan Brown sending his family out to battle enraged Catholics. If you expect a bestseller - if you PUBLISH something you need to prepare yourself for an echo. Quality does speak for itself to a degree. In this case the PR and controversy didn't reach the desired goal at all. Perhaps the next publisher should take note as times have changed - controversy alone will not bring in the book sales.

Keep it polite - and don't insult the readership that you intend to sell your book to. Granted, MJ fans were not shy in their criticism - but I have yet to see Mr. Vogel embark on that kind of readership insulting crusade.

But those that scream the loudest about being suppressed usually don't seem to realize that somehow despite their 'suppression' they seem to land plenty nice TV gigs and other mass media representation that we can only dream off.

Everyone (starting with Michael) has a right to voice their beliefs - but one's beliefs are not synonymous with the finding of the ultimate truth that others are ought to accept - connections to Michael's associates, or not. And what happened on at least 3 pages and blogs was an assertion of 'truth finding' in regards to Michael's art and overall life. Visitors felt comfortable with that, embraced it and slowly but surely the subject changed from "Michael" into various hotbeds that resembled Missionary tools above all. Those visitors and readers from other countries wondered about this and then suddenly there are only those left who subscribe to the pages' narrow religious bent.

The problem with the North American media landscape is indeed to pick one or two representatives of Michael's vast landscape of fans (preferably either freaky looking, hysterical, delusional or plain incapable of expressing themselves in English). HLN trial coverage featured just that.
I do think a lot of fans might perhaps (or maybe not?) simply feel the need to express somehow that there is indeed no "spokesperson" which is something media regularly takes advantage of .(as long as it underscores Michael being a freak - that's why you will never see a Morinen on TV)
And if I am honest - sometimes you cannot help but wonder about the motives of those that conduct themselves as if they indeed had the mandate to represent all fans. There is no such democratically elected forum and no mandate to represent. Divinely appointed messengers are equally troublesome.

It is a unique situation pertaining to Michael as it's hard to think of another artist with his universal appeal and his particular life.

Anyway, just voicing my frustration and why I also think it's a slippery slope.
Unfortunately the damage is done and I simply wished that fans wouldn't try even harder to determine Sullivan and Mr. Mesereau as the ultimate test of allegiance.
Sullivan should be drifting into deserved obscurity - as he will. Like the early biographers of Mozart and Beethoven who also fell prey to their own biases and their personal obsessions with unemptied night pots in various bed chambers.
Because those biographers did not land the 'ultimate' biography of their subjects - but they themselves became because subjects of harsh scrutiny by much more accurate historical researchers. Until Sullivan steps up to the plate and tells his readership why precisely conjecture constitutes 'fact' - I'm not interested in some sick phantasy of other jealous guys and scorned ladies and gents who didn't score a date with Michael himself.

End of sermon. If this is TooLongDidn'tRead- my apologies.
 
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Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

I just checked Amazon and it's now the #1 book on MJ and music in general :(
 
Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

Victory22 said:
Hi, I am the creator of the Michael Jackson Rapid Response Team page and the spokes person who was interviewed by NYT is my brother Steve. I know that we were outted by a fake MJ fan in our mist to the press and the only reason we agreed to the interview is because the writer assured us he was going to publish the article with or without our input. Now our dilemma is how best to move forward. We have our suspensions that a certain well known group is behind our exposer. Whatever we decide to do however rest assured we will never stop fighting for MJ.
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I'm glad you're making it private.

Right now everything you will submit there will be deluged in haters, because they are now obsessively monitoring your group. So it'll just make things worse in the long run and anything you do there will backfire against you.

When you make a new Facebook group I'd recommend saying you have here, and asking if people want to be involved they should message you. Also make the settings Secret and only invite "known" fans.



Re: Deborah, I'm super annoyed that fans will circulate her future interview around and it will definitely get some of her readers to buy the book and leave glowing reviews - so people will think "hey, if the fans think this is what really happened, it MUST be true." That's why it's aggravating because then we also have to work against the fans, in the same way JRT's book is now something we have to counter because the fans allowed it to be the acceptable narrative on Jackson.

This interview is worthless - he has no insight into MJ, the ONLY thing he can do is justify! He can't excuse or get out of what he's said, he can't change his story all of a sudden because he wants people to buy this book, not some other book. He is NOT here to be convinced by us. If he was, he would've already rescinded many of his stupid stories. He is here to convince us he is right about Jackson and about his book.

And she's too stuck on trying to appear more "nice" than regular fans that she can't even see this.

I don't know if she's doing it on purpose, but she is one of these pious people who is always overly nice, and overly polite ("What Would Michael Jackson Do?" - Uh, Michael would hold a tabloid burning, could you imagine how disgusted he'd be by what he says about Michael as a biological father? I know the kids would find it so hurtful, and that's just one of the things they'd find hurtful), and when Mesereau speaks about fans unwilling to accept or look at some things in MJ's life, I would put someone like her into that category. I don't get the impression she has delved that deeply into the allegations (I'd imagine for sensitive people like her it would be too upsetting), and she seems to have an overly saintly view to how Jackson was otherwise, she was also defending the Jacksons during the summer fiasco and saying her inside sources said the kids were just acting out - which was something Jackson insider sources had told a few other people I know too. But just because they say this, doesn't make it true, it makes it what they need to say. That's why this interview is a lost cause. She's not someone who is prepared to hold ground over MJ, she's someone more interesting in pleasing the other person. And now she has the added benefit of doing that in order to appear more "sane" and "normal" than the crazy militant fans.

I suspect the reason she wants Nordahl to read this book with her is because she doesn't know enough to refute or argue some points herself, so she wants to use him to do it for her.

Like I said, I like Nordahl, but he is not needed to fact check this book - we ourselves can do this. If she tries to say "Nordahl said he had a nose" "Nordahl said those kids were his" "Nordahl said Michael's marriage to Lisa was real" as though this is all the proof in the world that this happened and the only proof, then it just shows the problem with this book. She has to rely on someone else to correct these things, and she doesn't know them herself. Now imagine she doesn't know Nordahl and is just some guy off the street reading this book. What assumptions would they make?
 
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Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

mj_brainiac said:
I just checked Amazon and it's now the #1 book on MJ and music in general :(
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NYT and Deborah (she probably) have helped Sullivan's book to rise then. Don't people have common sense!? How could they believe Michael didn't have a nose or he didn't have vitiligo if the autopsy says stays the opposite?

Deborah probably thinks she knows best guessing we couldn't relay on our own opinions, logic, common sense, etc. I think she believes in Sullivan's parts about the vitiligo and the nose but I mean c'mon, knowing (even though you didn't read the whole thing) firtsly that ass "journalist" said "Michael didn't have a nose and kept prosthetic ones in a jar," you wouldn't waste your time nor your cash reading that crap. I still don't understand (a logical reason) why she's giving it that much attention.
 
Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

Can we all please let this book die?

Victory, I'm so sorry about what Deborah did to you. Until now I had no problem with her or the site, and even enjoyed some of the interviews she had conducted in the past. Although I did feel at times she's using Michael to promote her religious beliefs...
Now, I can't believe she would do that to another fan or even support such a poorly researched book that is trashy and unflattering to Michael.
 
Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

I also think it would be best to let the book die. It seems the boycott called more attention to it, even though the fans spearheading it had the best intentions and I commend them for it

A good thing fans should do is go on Amazon and buy the books that actually tell the truth. There's no reason Untouchable is #1 and Moonwalk, For The Record, Man In The Music, and even Jermaine's book are in the lower rankings.
 
Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

mj_brainiac said:
I just checked Amazon and it's now the #1 book on MJ and music in general :(
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The book is #4597 currently overall which doesn't mean big sales (it means selling 10-30 books/day). This marketing ploy did help it a bit, and it went up to about #1200 for a short period, but couldn't go any higher than that even with the mainstream media attention and support. And it's constantly sinking as the media stir is dying down. It's still a flop despite of the major media support.
 
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Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

^ He failed to realize he needs fan support, he can get short term interest from idiots looking to waste money just to spite the fans, but now he's utterly alienated himself in the fan community.
 
Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

I've seen Deborah talking about her close sources every time something is being asked. How can she be so sure those sources tell the truth how some things was around Michael or private things about him? I know at least 2 things that she got from her close source who knew Michael on a very personal plan that is totally wrong. So I don't think it's right that she writes on her site facts as facts when it isn't.
 
Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

I wouldn't worry about this tabloid book being no 1 or 2 in Amazon.
When it was released, it did go to number 1 for a while, but after 2-3 month we heard it only managed to sell 3000.
Even if it sells another 3000, it is massive failure.
Moonwalk, For The Record, Man In The Music and other proper books don't sell big volumes now as they are older releases and I think most of the fans have them already, so Sullivan's garbage for that reason is no 1 in MJ's book, but let me be sure, next week it back there where it belongs to =obscurity.

I don't think for million years that this campaign helped Sullivan in any way, it was failing big time, and it will be failure.
The people who bought the book after NYT article, must be Sullivan's own people, they are trying to give it a kick start again:)

I just cannot believe people who think all sort bad of things of MJ, would run to Amazon, spend money and time for this book that most likely is repetition of what they believed of Michael all along. If they did, then here is an idiom for them:'A fool and his money are easily parted:)
What I mean by above, lets say don't like Gene Simmons, and then there is a book published of him that supports my beliefs of him. Do I run to buy it? No, I would not spend a penny to get a confirmation for what I already believe of him and secondly why the hell I want to punish myself to read more about him if I don't like him?
The ones left who might buy it, are people who enjoy social porn. Then again, why would even them buy this book because they will get the same dose of it from online tabloids and for free?

Fans by now know not to touch it, in case of contamination:), so I don't see this book will be any kind of success.

About DK ROTD, wtf! Can she not form her own opinion? Why would she even need to have her husband and D Nordalh to read to book so she can form an opinion of it?



@Virre
by now we should know that as long they are mentioned as close source and are not named, there are no such a thing as close source.
 
la_cienega;3768361 said:
I'm glad you're making it private.

Right now everything you will submit there will be deluged in haters, because they are now obsessively monitoring your group. So it'll just make things worse in the long run and anything you do there will backfire against you.

When you make a new Facebook group I'd recommend saying you have here, and asking if people want to be involved they should message you. Also make the settings Secret and only invite "known" fans.



Re: Deborah, I'm super annoyed that fans will circulate her future interview around and it will definitely get some of her readers to buy the book and leave glowing reviews - so people will think "hey, if the fans think this is what really happened, it MUST be true." That's why it's aggravating because then we also have to work against the fans, in the same way JRT's book is now something we have to counter because the fans allowed it to be the acceptable narrative on Jackson.

This interview is worthless - he has no insight into MJ, the ONLY thing he can do is justify! He can't excuse or get out of what he's said, he can't change his story all of a sudden because he wants people to buy this book, not some other book. He is NOT here to be convinced by us. If he was, he would've already rescinded many of his stupid stories. He is here to convince us he is right about Jackson and about his book.

And she's too stuck on trying to appear more "nice" than regular fans that she can't even see this.

I don't know if she's doing it on purpose, but she is one of these pious people who is always overly nice, and overly polite ("What Would Michael Jackson Do?" - Uh, Michael would hold a tabloid burning, could you imagine how disgusted he'd be by what he says about Michael as a biological father? I know the kids would find it so hurtful, and that's just one of the things they'd find hurtful), and when Mesereau speaks about fans unwilling to accept or look at some things in MJ's life, I would put someone like her into that category. I don't get the impression she has delved that deeply into the allegations (I'd imagine for sensitive people like her it would be too upsetting), and she seems to have an overly saintly view to how Jackson was otherwise, she was also defending the Jacksons during the summer fiasco and saying her inside sources said the kids were just acting out - which was something Jackson insider sources had told a few other people I know too. But just because they say this, doesn't make it true, it makes it what they need to say. That's why this interview is a lost cause. She's not someone who is prepared to hold ground over MJ, she's someone more interesting in pleasing the other person. And now she has the added benefit of doing that in order to appear more "sane" and "normal" than the crazy militant fans.

I suspect the reason she wants Nordahl to read this book with her is because she doesn't know enough to refute or argue some points herself, so she wants to use him to do it for her.

Like I said, I like Nordahl, but he is not needed to fact check this book - we ourselves can do this. If she tries to say "Nordahl said he had a nose" "Nordahl said those kids were his" "Nordahl said Michael's marriage to Lisa was real" as though this is all the proof in the world that this happened and the only proof, then it just shows the problem with this book. She has to rely on someone else to correct these things, and she doesn't know them herself. Now imagine she doesn't know Nordahl and is just some guy off the street reading this book. What assumptions would they make?
Click to expand...

She has an agenda and it’s making money for herself off using MJ and God. She pretends to be a sweet, gentle religious little fan but in fact she is a passive aggressive scourge on the MJ Community that always takes the side of the people who are attacking MJ. During the Granny napping she was defending the Jackson kidnap team.
 
Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

What burns me up is that Amazon is letting reviews that clearly violate their stated guidelines stand. They said they would review and remove within 48 hours--btw, that's too long. Can't they read them faster than that? But anyway, last I checked (I went through 8 pages of reviews made recently, the offensive (I mean bad language and nasty) are still there. The guidelines say they remove 'distateful' and 'spiteful' comments--but they are still there. Amazon=fail.
 
Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

Sullivan achived now through this little marketing ploy that his book isn't rated two stars but three on Amazon. So what? It's still a flop. It's already down at #5700 again. It's sinking rapidly. I have to admit I take pleasure in watching his struggles to sell it and that despite of his underhanded tactics and huge mainstream media backing it just does NOT sell. LOL.

Meanwhile currently 3 Michael Jackson albums are on Billboard 200 with Thriller being #88 (plus Essential and Number Ones), 31 years after its release, without any anniversary, or anything... So people are still interested in Michael. It's just that they are not interested in crap about Michael.
 
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Has Randall "cry babe" Sullivan got NYT in his speed dial:D



For Michael Jackson Bio, Trying to Even the Score
By DAVID STREITFELD


People voiced their displeasure with “Untouchable: The Strange Life and Tragic Death of Michael Jackson” and its author, Randall Sullivan, with one-star reviews on Amazon.
When Randall Sullivan published his biography of Michael Jackson in November, he said he thought the singer was innocent of child molesting but he could not be absolutely positive. He said that after surgeries and more surgeries, little was left of Mr. Jackson’s nose besides his nostrils. He argued that despite two marriages, Mr. Jackson was probably a virgin when he died.

None of this went over well with Mr. Jackson’s fans, who voiced their displeasure with attacks on “Untouchable: The Strange Life and Tragic Death of Michael Jackson” and its author, a longtime contributor to Rolling Stone. Their primary weapon: one-star reviews on Amazon.

Since my article about their campaign appeared in The New York Times on Monday, dozens of people who were apparently outraged by what they saw the fans doing went to Amazon and wrote five-star reviews as a sort of riposte. There are now 142 five-star reviews, up from two dozen a few weeks ago, and 132 one-star reviews, up from about 100.

But the battle is merely joined. After the article appeared, Michael Jackson’s Rapid Response Team to Media Attacks asked via Twitter that people continue to post comments on Amazon. Many of the newly posted positive reviews have critical comments.

The positive reviews are no more believable in their praise than the negative reviews were in their criticism. By this point, the truth about the value of “Untouchable” — not to mention the truth about Mr. Jackson’s virginity and nose — is buried underneath all these competing claims, which must count as a victory for the book’s opponents. As a result, don’t be surprised if “star bombing,” as it’s been called, keeps on happening.

Amazon has tried to make reviewers more accountable by adding several tools where people can evaluate reviews. But this incident proved that those tools are open to their own manipulation. Take, for instance, an excerpt from this review: “Randall Sullivan is fake, my uncle best friend use to work for the Rolling Stones company and known Randy and the jacksons for years, He use people and lie to them to get ahead and he is not born again.”

That is not a review, that is semi-coherent slander. But Amazon, which said it reviewed all the reviews of “Untouchable,” did not see anything wrong with it, and 53 Jackson fans voted it a “helpful” review, which in theory pushed it to a more prominent position on the page. Apply those votes to dozens of critical reviews and it’s relatively simple for a handful of people to create an apparently massive surge of disapproval.
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/25/for-michael-jackson-bio-evening-the-score/
 
Re: Randall Sullivan's new book "Untouchable"

That journalist is so determined to try and get this book selling well, why?

And trying to only focus on the "bad" reviews from MJ fans - what about the obvious reviews from people who have read it who have been deleted, and the reviews from 5 star people who have obviously not read it? Reviews sent in by this terrible journalist himself.

And the coroner states he has a nose, why is this some weird "truth" we can't determine?

He seems happy the book's "score" is "evened". His goal was obvious. If this journalist isn't a friend of Sullivan's I'd be gobsmacked.
 
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