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Prelim Hearing-4/1/11 Discussion Thread-All discussion here

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GinnyJackson said:
i think the night he called nurse Lee he had a fever. I feel the same way. but to have doc murder ignore it means and signals to me that doc murray wasnt even a real doctor.
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The testimony, to me, paints a picture of him only fearing losing his pay, thus ignoring the wishes of those who felt Michael wasn't 100%. And telling Michael he was fine, as a way to insure his payment's.
 
Autumn II said:
I'm thinking now that's the case, that Michael was questioning Murray. Murray is being painted to seem more like "an enforcer" than a doctor (re: Ortega's testimony). I never could understand why Michael would call a NURSE, rather than his personal physician? That's making sense, now. . . The unsigned contract also makes sense, in light of that. (Michael did NOT sign it. . . )
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I agree!

Was Michael souring on having Murray as a part of the "This Is It" team. Could possibly be why Michael was not in a rush to sign Murray's contract.

I keep saying that AEG didn't really want to hire Murray, I'm now starting to think that AEG wasn't alone and "maybe" Michael was also changing his mind about Murray and that's why Murray was being so TESTY with Kenny Ortega, i.e. Murray knew his days were numbered.
 
more from Kenny's testimony

Kenny Ortega, who directed Jackson's comeback "This Is It" concerts, was the first of about 30 witnesses to be called by the prosecution.

Ortega described Jackson as "involved, active, participating" at his last rehearsal, which ended just 12 or 14 hours before the singer died.

"He was in a delightful mood and we had an absolutely fantastic day," Ortega testified.
But Ortega described a different, "scary" Michael Jackson at the Staples Center rehearsal on June 19, six nights before his death.

"I just felt that he appeared, you know, really lost," Ortega said. "It was scary. I didn't know what was wrong. I couldn't put my finger on it."

Ortega suggested to Jackson that he cut his rehearsal short and go home to rest.
He was called to a meeting at Jackson's home the next day, where he was "scolded" by Murray for having sent Jackson home the night before, Ortega said.

"Dr. Murray told me that this was not my responsibility and he asked me not to act like a doctor or psychologist," he said.

Ortega said it was an emotional meeting, but he denied yelling at Jackson. "It wasn't yelling," he said. "It was about caring."

"Michael said 'I know you love me and I know you care about me, but you don't have to worry. I'm fine.'" Ortega said. "It was Michael's voice that calmed me."

Randy Phillips, the CEO of concert promoter AEG Live, and Jackson manager Frank Dileo were at this meeting, along with Murray and Jackson, Ortega said.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/04/california.conrad.murray.hearing/?hpt=Sbin
 
o, thus far, it appears that any "riot acting" going on was between Kenny Ortega AND Conrad Murray.

And if anybody was "trying" to control Michael, it appears that Murray was that person.
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yes it certainly seems like that and also oretaga said in his testimony that the even with the chills was the first time during rehearsals that mj had been ill
 
Ortega was working for AEG, Michael!
Travis Payne was working for AEG, Michael!
Karen Faye was working for AEG, Michael and all the employees did the same!
They were all under contract because AEG was the company responsible for the concerts!
 
Asedora said:
It is all about everything because Ortega is testifying today. Ortega is working for AEG. I am just trying to remind you.
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Let me remind you. Conrad Murray is who this hearing is about not AEG. And for the record Michael hired Kenny not AEG.
 
yaazgurl said:
I don't understand how only one source reported the very important factor that several dosages of propofol were given in lethal amounts as early as 7:30 am. All the other news outlets are spitting out the timeline Murray originally provided.
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who knows. thats the problem u can trust a word any of the media say. unless theres fans reporting all the info or we get the transcripts we aint ever gonna know the facts
 
Leave your conspiracy feelings out the door here. This is about the hearing and by all means discuss Kenny Ortega's testimony. But do not turn this into an AEG vs Murray thread. This is about Conrad Murray, and this is neither the time nor the place to be discussing such conspiracy theories.
 
wendy2004 said:
This is the testimony I'm most interested in.



Nurse Lee said it was Father's Day...the hot/cold incident. If I remember correctly, that was Sunday, June 21st.



Someone being sick for more than ONE day does not mean they are dying UNLESS they are having some serious life-threatening symptoms. Otherwise, everyone with the flu would be hospitalized. Only those exhibiting serious symptoms get hospitalized. Shivering isn't too bad. I've shivered in my office many a day and no one sent me home (and now I have a heater under my desk :ph34r:.)
ETA: got a meeting to go to now and I don't wanna gooooo. Keep the wonderful updates coming, ppl. Bless!
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exactlyif you put all the days together..19th 20th and 21st...THIS IS telling a story.....but I am not gonna fight with you.....lets just sit back and see how this plays out...I guarantee you...YOU will be wrong this time..
 
in your text there is that mj was scared of how he felt at that point the 19th... thats something for me..
 
Autumn II said:
I'm thinking now that's the case, that Michael was questioning Murray. Murray is being painted to seem more like "an enforcer" than a doctor (re: Ortega's testimony). I never could understand why Michael would call a NURSE, rather than his personal physician? That's making sense, now. . . The unsigned contract also makes sense, in light of that. (Michael did NOT sign it. . . )
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Quite frankly that does not look like a trusting patient-doctor relationship to me when the person with theoretical 24/7 access to his own personal physician prefers to call an outside nurse when not feeling well.

On top of that Michael did not sign his own physician's contract- who is driving the unsigned contract around in his car when it was impounded.
 
Asedora said:
It is all about everything because Ortega is testifying today. Ortega is working for AEG. I am just trying to remind you.
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That's inaccurate, he doesn't work for AEG. AEG is in charge of booking live events, performances, concert's, shows, etc. Ortega like any other major producer/director, has to go through AEG for said bookings.

xthunderx2 said:
exactlyif you put all the days together..19th 20th and 21st...THIS IS telling a story.....but I am not gonna fight with you.....lets just sit back and see how this plays out...I guarantee you...YOU will be wrong this time..
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It doesn't say how Michael felt on the 20th or 21st, all that was said was that Kenny gave him those two days off to get some rest, and recover, so he'd be ready to rehearse on the following days. There's no mention of his physical state for those two days, therefore the theory that he was sick for all three of those days, is nothing more but assumption, at the moment.
 
Ingelief said:
prelim means they are gonna look if they got a trial against murray?

And that is two weeks?

So different then here in the netherlands.. And so far away to support if feels that way.. i had that in 05 too.. i just wanted to go to usa to support..

what can we do from here?
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Pray. Gather together local fans - Gather together on the day of the court hearings. Stand together for Michael. Light candles in unity...It's the symbolism..the ritual..it's the being together..it's the praying and showing the public that people around the world know that Michael is a victim. That the truth should be known.
It makes a difference.

:wub:
souldreamer7
 
Testimony of Michael Amir Williams

Michael Jackson's personal assistant is testifying in Los Angeles about a chaotic scene at the singer's rented mansion and a hospital on the day that he died.
Prosecutors questioned Michael Amir Williams on Tuesday about a brief conversation he had with Dr. Conrad Murray, who is charged with involuntary manslaughter in Jackson's death.
Williams describes Murray calling him and frantically asking him to get help from bodyguards for the singer, who was in a bedroom. Prosecutors contended earlier in Murray's preliminary hearing that Jackson was already dead.
Williams says Murray told him the singer had a "bad reaction" and that immediate help was needed, but that the doctor didn't ask him to call 911.
Williams says it was "chaos" at the mansion and the hospital, with crowds gathering.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/7365372.html
 
Michael Jackson's Assistant Testifies

The prosecution began to paint a picture of Dr. Conrad Murray's reckless actions on the night MJ passed away ... by calling to the stand the Jackson assistant Murray telephoned before he called 911.

Michael Amir Williams testified that he received a frantic voicemail from Murray at 12:13 PM on June 25, 2009. Williams said Murray's VM said, "Where are you? Get here right away, hurry."

Williams says he then called Alberto Alvarez, MJ's security guard, and asked Alvarez to walk to the front door. Williams says he heard Murray's voice in the background, then Alvarez hung up.

Williams said that later on at the hospital, Murray approached him and said Michael had some cream in his room that Murray knew MJ wouldn't want the world to know about. Williams said he wanted someone to give him a ride back to MJ's house to retrieve it.
 
i agree with xtthunder...

oh and he kenny said michael said to him on the 20st he was fine..
but he called the nurse on 21st and said he wasnt fine..

So for me those three days are going to be a big deal i hope in the courtrome, but what xtthunder says whe have to wait and see..

but i still say its importend and it wasnt a flue.. it was for me something else.. worse..

we arent scared if we have the flue.. whe are scared if it is something else right?
 
Ingelief said:
i agree with xtthunder...

oh and he kenny said michael said to him on the 20st he was fine..
but he called the nurse on 21st and said he wasnt fine..

So for me those three days are going to be a big deal i hope in the courtrome, but what xtthunder says whe have to wait and see..

but i still say its importend and it wasnt a flue.. it was for me something else.. worse..

we arent scared if we have the flue.. whe are scared if it is something else right?
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Nobody ever said Michael was scared.
 
I don't understand why Murray would get so defensive Kenny telling Michael to go home and get some rest. He wasn't feeling well that day. For him not to act like some doctor or psychiatrist. He knew Michael for like 20 years and if Michael didn't look well and he agreed to go home.
 
Ingelief said:
...

we arent scared if we have the flue.. whe are scared if it is something else right?
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Yup, we reach out when we are at the end of the rope. Or say, when we are worried about someone who's supposed to help. But if you're stuck in a rut because you're caught up left and right and don't know where to start.

So, according to Ortega Murray was upset that MJ got sent home. No wonder MJ calls someone for an opinion.
 
Ingelief said:
i agree with xtthunder...

oh and he kenny said michael said to him on the 20st he was fine..
but he called the nurse on 21st and said he wasnt fine..

So for me those three days are going to be a big deal i hope in the courtrome, but what xtthunder says whe have to wait and see..

but i still say its importend and it wasnt a flue.. it was for me something else.. worse..

we arent scared if we have the flue.. whe are scared if it is something else right?
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i THINK Michael wanted a second opinion and murray wouldnt let him call any other doctors. so he called Lee on the sly and asked her for her opinion and she told him but no one would take him to get checked out. Murray lied to him and told him he was fine when he may have had the flu that day or a hell of a chest cold.
 
We know that Michael had health problems, Lupus, Vitiligo that can cause serious effects like insomnia, pain in the bones, arthritis and so on. We shouldn't forget that he was 50 years old! So, it's normal that he had better and worse days!
 
Gosh this is all so stressful and confusing, and we are only JUST at the preliminary hearing! Hate how it takes so long.
 
Pace said:
Fact of the matter is that everyone involved in This Is It was contractually bound by confidentiality clauses- that means the dancers, Ortega, Faye, everyone.

Getting all up in arms about what someone said on their twitter, lunch break or 30 second sound bite TV show is fairly pointless.

It's about what is being said in this courtroom.
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i agree

xthunderx2 said:
thats right o Kenny told Michael to go home on the 19th...big meeting with Murray and Michael on the 20th,,,,Murray basically told Kenny to mind business that Michael was fine...Then Michael callled Nurse Lee on 21st....Michael passed on the 25th....to me that is Michael NOT feeling well for more than a day..
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true.... it also shows taht muaryy had to be giving him something that was messing with his body. i think thats what they are trying to show in court. something was wrong before jun 25

Justthefacts said:
If he did not die because of what was causing him to be cold it does not matter at all. We want to know what happened on June 25 when he never made it out of his room. And since you don't know what I am talking about Michael's blood and tissues were tested for illness at his autspot and everything came back fine he was not sick. If you want to know the truth just wait and see
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yes it does matter. it shows what was happening before he died. it is actually very important, that is why it is being brought up. im sure the prosecution knows what they are doing ;) also they arent saying he had a illness that led to death, we know that, but he had problems from whatever he was being administered.

JaneBender said:
No I totally agree with you.. .but think about this... she was protecting his privacy and HER paycheck while he was alive. He's gone now, so there is no one to stop her from speaking... u see what I'm getting at? I think it's two fold. She was protecting him because if word got out that Michael may not have been ready for those shows it would have been BAD so she and Kenny kept their mouths shut and maybe just hoped things would get better. now that Michael is gone, there is no paycheck to protect and he's not here to stop her from telling all of his persona business.
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i agree

Autumn II said:
I'm thinking now that's the case, that Michael was questioning Murray. Murray is being painted to seem more like "an enforcer" than a doctor (re: Ortega's testimony). I never could understand why Michael would call a NURSE, rather than his personal physician? That's making sense, now. . . The unsigned contract also makes sense, in light of that. (Michael did NOT sign it. . . )
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from what is said, mj nor aeg signed it but they knew he was around and was working for mj.

wendy2004 said:
This is the testimony I'm most interested in.



Nurse Lee said it was Father's Day...the hot/cold incident. If I remember correctly, that was Sunday, June 21st.



Someone being sick for more than ONE day does not mean they are dying UNLESS they are having some serious life-threatening symptoms. Otherwise, everyone with the flu would be hospitalized. Only those exhibiting serious symptoms get hospitalized. Shivering isn't too bad. I've shivered in my office many a day and no one sent me home (and now I have a heater under my desk :ph34r:.)

ETA: got a meeting to go to now and I don't wanna gooooo. Keep the wonderful updates coming, ppl. Bless!
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his shivering wasnt from him being cold. it was the summer time in los angeles and he was up onstage dancing and rehearshing. it shows that something was wrong for him to be shivering cold under thise circumstances

xthunderx2 said:
exactlyif you put all the days together..19th 20th and 21st...THIS IS telling a story.....but I am not gonna fight with you.....lets just sit back and see how this plays out...I guarantee you...YOU will be wrong this time..
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i agree.... something isnt right
 
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