Tygger;3843967 said:
Interesting. The transcript will show if he indeed made this slip. This slip matches the “we hired him” YouTube clip that concerned Jorrie, Black, and Roth in 2009. It is illogical that Phillips felt $150K/month was high but, $5M was reasonable for the doctor's salary. Again, Tohme’s contract seems very similar to what AEG attempted to do with the doctor. Phillips’ response to that was utterly ridiculous.
He does say a lot of illogical stuff, I'm surprised people on this board don't seem to get that.
Tygger;3843967 said:
Bouee, agreed. There seems to be at least six versions of events and the versions do not match: Phillip’s deposition, Phillips’ testimony, Gongaware’s deposition, Gongaware’s testimony and then Trell and Hollander’s testimonies. (I do not remember if they strayed from their depositions as much as Phillips and Gongaware.) Phillips is the schmoozer while Gongaware is the number cruncher and it shows in their testimonies in open court. AEG employees have consistently testified that they are confused by the meaning of emails sent to them by other AEG employees and are also confused by emails they themselves have authored.
And again, very few people here seem to be interested in that. Ignoring the elephant in the room ?
Tygger;3843967 said:
Bouee, be patient. Ratner and Rowe have not testified. Rowe is expected to testify that she witnessed Michael with propofol on the History tour which Gongaware was a part of.
Bouee, you have asked why AEG was not suspicious of the doctor numerous times and I admit to reflecting on that question numerous times. This is my response to your question: the drug itself is not dangerous; it was the negligent administration of the drug by the doctor that was fatally dangerous. I believe this is why Michael felt it was safe (remember him saying he only needed to be watched) and at least Rowe felt it was safe if she witnessed it being used on the History tour. Notice, this is not the same as saying it was an acceptable sleep aid; this is only to say that the use of the drug is safe.
Anyone who would have known about propofol would not think it could cause a health decline. A layperson may assume a doctor would know how to administer it without knowing that it is preferably administered by a professional anesthesiologist. The majority of the public are non-medical persons as was Michael so, it is very possible Michael himself did not know that any doctor is not qualified for propofol administration. I believe Michael knew his health was changing but, he may have not suspected propofol which in turn would leave the doctor unsuspected. If Michael did not suspect the doctor, how could anyone else?
I am doubtful of Phillips’ testimony regarding the background story of the O2 announcement and what Richie told him. Again, I feel it is a time waster to have her testify but, I would like Panish to address the Richie email at least on the redirect. Her email about a hidden stash does not match the testimony Phillips gave. Why would Phillips email Roth with a ruse and why would Phillips care if the doctor was exonerated or not if the doctor had no ties to AEG?
I am extremely suspicious of Phillips’ reaction to the list of substances told to him by Richie which must have included propofol as a cause of death. She is a family friend and most likely saw or heard about their private autopsy. Hopefully the transcript will state if he was surprised to see propofol listed or was he more concerned with tying the other substances to Klein.
I have a few problems with that :
Re Debbie, yes, we talked about this earlier in this trhread, and it's almost certain she was on the same legs of the tour as Gongaware.
Re History tour : there was apparently no problem with this tour. Michael was not described having the same health problems as he had in TII. That's my first problem. Why ? And if Michael used propofol then, then other people on the tour might not have noticed it. It's about AEG's
perception of things, ie what they could see, and as non medical persons, what
they could understand.
I don't think propofol is the point in this trial. I don't think it has to be so precise. The claim is negligent hiring and supervising, so the Jacksons need to show AEG hired a suspicious doctor, and that they knew possibly dangerous things were going on, and that they could have avoided that. They don't need to show that AEG knew exactly what it was, and knew exactly the risks. The judge already said AEG could not be found liable for the doctor's medical actions.
Re what Michael knew or didn't know about his health :
- we know Murray is a liar. (the flu ?)
- I re read what Cherilynn Lee said at CM's trial, here are tidbits (relevant also to Murray's start date) :
Lee mentioned the June 21st phone call to the police and said that it could be a central nervous system problem. Lee says this was one of the symptoms of Propofol she had mentioned to MJ.
------
April 12th MJ’s main complaint is that he needs products to sleep and he’s willing to try natural products.
April 19th MJ’s energy is good but he’s unable to sleep and the natural products don’t help him to sleep.
------
April 19 morning MJ requested Lee to observe him to sleep. MJ said he needed something that would “knock him out”. MJ asked for Diprivan. Lee never heard of Propofol before. She searched and made a phone call and found out it was used in hospitals for surgery. Lee told MJ that it was not safe to use at home. MJ assured her that it was safe and he “only needed a doctor to monitor him while he sleeps”. Lee brought back PDR from her office and showed it to MJ and explained him the side effects. PDR has several side effects. Some of them are dizziness, agitation, chills, trembling and memory loss.
Lee asked MJ “what if you forget your lines?”. MJ said “I would never forget my lines”. MJ again told her that doctors said it would be safe. Lee asked “I understand you want a good night’s sleep. You want to be “knocked out” but what if you don't wake up?”. MJ said “I'll be okay I only need someone to monitor me with the equipment while I sleep”.
Shafer said that side effects were rare, and that there was no experience with long term use of propofol, the only one they had was with ICU patients, there was no adverse effect.
So :
1- Michael used it before, did not have all the adverse effects, did not really believe Lee
2-Michael knew it was propofol causing him his june 09 problems , and went along lying to AEG about it
3-Michael didn't think it was propofol/ benzos & believed Murray ( flu stuff, anxiety -both would be believable in the circumstances & I don't know if Michael knew about benzos)
Again, the issue of the trial would be AEG's
perception of it, so yes, I can't understand how they did not suspect Murray. Apparently from Nurse Lee's testimony, Michael did not complain of sleep issue before april 12th , the last time he saw her was april 19th. So Murray started around that time. Officially the contract says May 1st, PG said in an e mail may 15th. Problems started appearing at the end of may, and apperently increased. With the info whe've had so far , I think around mid june the info they (PG/RP) had was at least enough to run background checks on Murray. Not to mention june 19th ending in Murray "responsible for Michael's appearance at rehearsals. So negligent hiring ? yes, definitely. Supervising ? It appears so too.
re Brenda : I think she is not important, what is important is the e mail she sent, and the content (TMZ article). And yes, your're right, Phillips reaction IS suspicious.
Re Phillips account of the 02 : I don't know, maybe what he said yesterday is partially true. I just don't believe the butt slap in that context. If he was asked about that, he only confirmed the butt slap. I don't know what it was. I don't think Michael was that drunk, he was just scared. We also know Phillips likes to present himself as more important than he is (ex "the myraid of lawsuits that he was crisis managing everyday"). He lies too, when needed.
and I agree with you AEG was somehow forcing Michael, or dealt with him that way.
"Once we go on sale, which we have the right to do, he is locked," Gongaware wrote to Phillips.
