Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[Bubs]

I hate to see when someone calls MJ freak, but I don't agree with Panish accusing Trell for something he didn't say. Trell didn't say MJ was a freak, Fikre did and I don't agree that someone else is responsible of what someone else says. MJJ community is not in line with my way of thinking and are not responsible what I say here, so I don't think AEG/Trell is responsible for what their lawyer Fikre says, he is an idiot who believes what he reads from tabloids.

From Trell to Fikre on 1/28/09
Apparently. Not sure how I feel about that. Interesting for sure, but kind of creepy.

Trell's reply its own is not that bad and can be interpreted more than one way. Does he calls MJ a creepy or the possible situation meeting MJ a creepy?



Panish cont'd: We're going to continue to prove that for members of the board and attorneys to refer to him as that is disgraceful"

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts58s
AEG's attorney, Marvin Putnam, said that he's waiting for actual evidence in the case to be presented and this was just personal attacks.

Is AEG on trial because some of their employees is using nasty words of MJ?
Panish is losing if he continues going on the way they have done so far. They cannot force anyone to love Michael, or to have the same opinions. All he needs to do is to show their evidence that AEG negligently hired CM, but so far it has been a fluff from their side.
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Jessica Stebbins Bina, a trial defense lawyer for AEG, said the emails were shown merely to embarrass AEG.

"We are four weeks into trial and we have yet to hear one piece of substantive evidence," said Marvin S. Putnam, an attorney who is leading AEG's defense.

He said Katherine Jackson's lawyers have instead opted to attack AEG Live with "side issues and characterizations."

Panish said after court that he would show more evidence of AEG's disdain for Jackson.
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I too want to see some substantive evidence that is somehow related to negligent hiring, but Panish reply indicates they are going on the route how personel didn't like Michael :doh:

 

[bouee]

"But they ARE liable for what they do, even if it's not intentional." bouee

Isn't this what the trial is about? IF they are liable for negligent hiring/supervision? It's yet to be determined (I realize you seem to have made up your mind but the jury hasn't heard all the evidence yet and neither have we--maybe?).

The problem I see with the argument that AEG is liable for what Murray did (killed MJ) is that it ultimately means (in terms of logic) if AEG had been as careful as they should have been, they should not have made any deal with MJ in the first place. The whole thing was a mess--an unraveling mess--from the outset. And not all of it had to do with AEG or even MJ. There were other bizarre and unreliable players here putting their ink in the water. Thome, Allgood, Leonard Rowe, Joe Jackson, the family, and of course Conrad. Not to mention the press--Ian Halperin--all the rumors--he can't sing, he can't dance.

However, if AEG HAD pulled the plug, which they clearly considered doing, and maybe/probably should have done, what would it have meant for MJ?

I came in this with an open mind, I hate what the Jacksons have been doing, so I would have been more inclined in favor of AEG. I don't have a firm opinion yet, I could still change my mind again when AEG present their case. I'm aware of that, though what' I've seen so far seems strong to me.

I know it was messy, and I understand they probably didn't have the time to properly evaluate things, but when it comes to someone's health, it's a totally different level. You don't want to take risks.

I think AEG were scared of having to pull the plug, it would have meant a loss of money for them. That's the whole point. And no, pulling the plug would not have helped Michael, it's the opposite. The only thing they could have done is allow more time (postpone) , and either not get involved - which wouldn't have changed anything for Michael unfortunately, or pressure for other healthcare professionnals who could/would have alerted about Murray's strange behavior. Maybe that wouldn't have helped either, because of the little time left.

I agree it was a difficult situation, with no easy solution, maybe no solution at all.

bouee--I think what you are saying re AEG needed to be more careful re making an arrangement between AEG and Murray--yes, and they realized that and that's why they would not sign the contract with Murray until MJ signed it and that's why they had under MJ's signature the languge that said he requested this person and would pay for him:

"The undersigned hereby confirms that he has requested Producer to engage Dr. Murray on the terms set forth herein on behalf of and at the expense of the undersigned."

This language was meant to protect them from liability.

Yes, that's what I'm saying.
And maybe this extra line will work, I don't know. At least it shows they acknoledged it was a tricky situation. I think there were 2 kinds of problems :
1) the contract
2) AEG's behavior when problems started to appear, especially since the contract with Murray was not signed yet : they could have stopped it, instead of that they got involved with Murray directly. It's all the red flags the Jacksons are mentionning, even though some of the things they consider "red flags" are questionable, some of them were actually red flags, at least to me.

 

[bouee]

^^

...although I don't think it would be a fair judgement, only if the money might could to charity, then maybe.
However it's not necessarily justice what is find through a trial! *shrugs*

yes, I totally agree with that, or if the money goes to the kids, but NOT to Katherine.

IMO, it stopped being about justice the day Katherine rejected restitution from Murray.

 

[Tygger]

Bouee, I agree that it is unclear who came up with the “tough love” concept but, the doctor most likely agreed with it. I am leaning towards an AEG employee more than the doctor however.

Gerryevans, I disagree. AEG allegedly hired the doctor Michael wanted. I cannot assume others, like AllGood and Live Nation would do the same only because AEG did.

Ivy, I do not feel the cross on Tuesday accomplished much except to bring attention to the footnote and correct that Ortega had an executed contract. The footnote explains the doctor not receiving payment (for services already rendered); not why he was in the pre-production budget to begin with and jurors will remember that as well. The jurors will also remember contracts were executed for others who performed services before the executed contract and Michael's passing.

If there are other doctors who have been hired by producers/promoters for the artist(s), the defendants should get a complete listing as AEG’s own employees’ have testified to the opposite in their experience. For me, Faye’s memory or lack thereof, helps the plaintiffs because it can be corroborated with other witnesses even if it did not happen the exact way she remembers. The jury does not need to believe her about a particular situation for example if they can hear from Dr. Finklestein himself. If the defendants’ lawyers or a witness alludes to current allegations, yes, it will be stricken but, not before the jurors hear it and that is to the defendants’ benefit.

I was incorrect as the “ugly stuff” happened before Gongaware reached the stand. The plaintiffs’ lawyers will continue to tarnish AEG’s image. The emails continually show negligence by AEG in regards to Michael. It’s akin to the doctor’s 17 egregious violations of standard care that supported his negligence. Their lack of respect and zeal to get Michael onstage to recognize profits and glory for themselves caused them to behave badly. It encouraged them to allegedly hire this doctor without checking his background (as Trell admitted). We will see if Gongaware/Phillips encouraged the doctor to do whatever was necessary to get Michael onstage. By rejecting the settlement, AEG showed their image was more precious than their money and they may very well lose both.



I am unsure why some fans are using this settlement article to somehow prove the trial motive was financial for the plaintiffs. Again, the majority of civil lawsuits in the United States end in settlement before trial and as Ivy said, settlements can be reached during trial and even after trial. The plaintiffs’ lawyer’s settlement requests were customary.

It is also confusing that some fans will equate justice for Michael’s unnecessary passing to a dollar. If the defendants are found blameworthy they will not be sentence to time as the doctor was (his time was too brief). The monetary damages awarded by the jury is the punishment. This is how civil trial are done.

 

[Bubs]

I think AEG were scared of having to pull the plug, it would have meant a loss of money for them. That's the whole point. And no, pulling the plug would not have helped Michael, it's the opposite. The only thing they could have done is allow more time (postpone) , and either not get involved - which wouldn't have changed anything for Michael unfortunately, or pressure for other healthcare professionnals who could/would have alerted about Murray's strange behavior. Maybe that wouldn't have helped either, because of the little time left.

They couldn't pull the plug. I thought it was the decision that required both AEG and MJ agreement, Ivy am I right?
Also didn't they have a insurance in place to cover their losses?
Bina: Could AEG make a profit from cancellation insurance?
Trell: No, only to cover losses

I remember reading it somewhere Randy P saying that they had no problems postponing some of the concerts, but did Michael or his representative asked to postpone?

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And maybe this extra line will work, I don't know. At least it shows they acknoledged it was a tricky situation. I think there were 2 kinds of problems :
1) the contract
2) AEG's behavior when problems started to appear, especially since the contract with Murray was not signed yet : they could have stopped it, instead of that they got involved with Murray directly. It's all the red flags the Jacksons are mentionning, even though some of the things they consider "red flags" are questionable, some of them were actually red flags, at least to me.

We don't exactly know how they behaved when the problems arosed and how they got involved with CM. We have heard only fluff so far. To me it looks like they did raised questions but were shut down by doctor.
Meeting on June 20th: Dr. Murray, Michael, Randy Phillips and Kenny Ortega. "Firstly, Michael indicated he was fine, just fine," Trell said

Trell: Secondly, Dr. Murray scolded Kenny Ortega for raising concern, that he was taking care of Michael and he was just fine.

I would like to hear the exact words Kenny and CM exchanged to get a better picture, but by assumption I would have backed down if doctor tells me everything is ok.

 

[bouee]

^^ They were scared of having to cancel , they thought that if MJ didn't get over his fear of performing, they would eventually have to. I think I saw an email somewhere, can't recall precisely where right now, where they feared that Michael was tricking them into cancelling, calling him lazy.

Insurance was not covering the whole production costs & advances, since those costs went higher than what they expected, and they had not yet secured insurance for illness.

It's true that Michael did not ask to postpone, though the doctor should probably have.
As for his health, Michael did not have a clear picture, Murray was certainly not telling him the truth, though I agree AEG did not know that.

"Trell: Secondly, Dr. Murray scolded Kenny Ortega for raising concern, that he was taking care of Michael and he was just fine". Red flag, Murray shouldn't have been defensive. He should have made the same point, but trying to reassure Ortega, not scolding him. He should have welcomed Ortega giving him information about Michael's health. That's surreal IMO, it's a big red flag. If Murray had anything to be angry about , it is Ortega giving details to AEG, because that's private info (but Ortega said he tried to reach CM,and couldn't reach him).
That's what I think other healthcare providers would have noticed. Murray being secretive/ defensive + Michael's health not improving.

EDIT : we saw during the trial and during Murray's "documentary" how he can easily get VERY angry. If he was like that during the meeting, it should have raised concern.


"To me it looks like they did raised questions but were shut down by doctor" Absolutely, I agree. but AEG doesn't look like they are going to say Murray lied to them, at least so far. They seem to put all the responsability on Michael, who didn't have all the information either.

EDIT : To me, Michael not putting on weight/ losing weight , + not showing up for rehaearsals, having a doctor ordered sick day, and especially AEG's reaction to that, Michael appearing tired, or "slow" as Kenny put it, when he was very engaged at the beginning of the project, + june 19th , all this happening while he is under the care of a personal doctor that turn out to be unreachable when there is a problem and aggressive, is not fluff, it's weird at the very least.

 

[Bubs]

They were scared of having to cancel , they thought that if MJ didn't get over his fear of performing, they would eventually have to. I think I saw an email somewhere, can't recall precisely where right now, where they feared that Michael was tricking them into cancelling, calling him lazy.

Again, they couldn't cancel because it would require MJ and AEG agreement for cancellation.
As for you not remeber where you read that part, here it is:
"We are holding all the risk," Gongaware wrote to Phillips. "We let Mikey know just what this will cost him in terms of him making money...We cannot be forced into stopping this, which MJ will try to do because he is lazy and constantly changes his mind to fit his immediate wants."

I want to see the whole email chain before I make up my mind, so far we have seen the "smoking gun", the worst ones to AEG, but what is really said in the whole email chain gives a better picture of the meaning and why such a words.

Insurance was not covering the whole production costs & advances, since those costs went higher than what they expected, and they had not yet secured insurance for illness.

It was to cover their losses and not profit, and the estate paid MJ share.

It's true that Michael did not ask to postpone.
As for his health, he did not have a clear picture, Murray was certainly not telling him the truth, though I agree AEG did not know that.

That is your assumption that Michael didn't know his own health.

"Trell: Secondly, Dr. Murray scolded Kenny Ortega for raising concern, that he was taking care of Michael and he was just fine". Red flag, Murray shouldn't have been defensive. He should have made the same point, but trying to reassure Ortega, not scolding him. That's surreal IMO, it's a big red flag.
That's what i think other healthcare providers would have noticed. Murray being secretive/ defensive + Michael's health not improving.

That too is your own impression of the situation. It could be that they thought that they have stepped on CM's toes by trying to tell him how to be a doctor, and they stepped back when CM told them he is the Doctor.
I can understand if that is the way they thought of it. They are no doctors and by doubting CM's doctor skills they insulted him. What we or AEG think of CM's doctors skills now is totally different what they thought of him then.

"To me it looks like they did raised questions but were shut down by doctor" Absolutely, I agree. but AEG doesn't look like they are going to say Murray lied to them.

AEG haven't brought their witnesses yet, so we don't know what they are going to say.

 

[bouee]

^^ Ok, thanks, i see your point. Just so you know, I have edited my previous post at the same time you were writing yours.

I agree we need to wait for AEG's presentation, i could still change my mind. But so far I really don't see things the same way. I would understand if AEG were blaming Murray and the Jacksons, but so far, from their verdict form and opening statements, they're blaming Michael + Jacksons.

I assume Michael was not told by Murray about the side effects of propofol/benzos, and that he was led to believe, including by Murray, that it was "in his head".
This goes back to the unanswered question of was Michael beginning to doubt Murray, was there another doctor that could have been involved in TII (Adams), was Murray even going to London.

 

[Bubs]

I agree we need to wait for AEG's presentation, i could still change my mind. But so far I really don't see things the same way. I would understand if AEG were blaming Murray and the Jacksons, but so far, from their verdict form and opening statements, they're blaming Michael + Jacksons.

I can change my mind too when I see something that makes me to change my mind. To me, nearly all plaintiffs has presented so far is fluff They are trying to paint AEG in bad light, but imo factual and concrete evidence of AEG hiring CM is totally missing.

I can understand they are blaming Jackson's, I'm blaming them too, as they are the mother source of all the troubles MJ had, but that is irrelevant To me the guilty parties are Jackson's themselves and then Conrad Murray. Jackson's abused and used MJ all of his life, and while they did that, they didn't help him to prepare the side effect of show business, to them MJ was usefull source of money, but other than that, they didn't care. MJ wasn't prepared to CM because lack of education he didn't receive from home (that lack of education from home covers wide range of negligent actions from family, too many to list them).
----------------------------------------------------
I assume Michael was not told by Murray about the side effects of propofol/benzos, and that he was led to believe, including by Murray, that it was "in his head".

"Before coming back that evening Lee searched Diprivan and called a doctor. Doctor told Lee what Diprivan is and it’s never used at home. Lee tells this to MJ. MJ says doctors had told him it was safe and he thought he would be safe he if he had someone at home to monitor him. Lee goes to her office and gets her PDR and shows the adverse effects to MJ. MJ tells her he had Diprivan for surgery and he had fallen asleep so easily. MJ says he needed rest to work.

I wonder how much of medical information Michael had in relating to the medicine he was taking or did he just took what doctors ordered without any questions? I'm kind of leaning towards the latter as seemingly in his eyes doctors were next to God to him and could do no wrong.
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This goes back to the unanswered question of was Michael beginning to doubt Murray, was there another doctor that could have been involved in TII (Adams), was Murray even going to London.

Yes, I have thought of it too. According to todays testimony"
Responsibilities of GCA/Dr. Murray
4.3 Obtain, maintain and comply with all licenses or other approvals required by any applicable law

did he actually do anything to get his licence to work on UK (I don't know what needs to be done in order to practice in different country) or was he planning not to seek those licences?

 

[bouee]

"Before coming back that evening Lee searched Diprivan and called a doctor. Doctor told Lee what Diprivan is and it’s never used at home. Lee tells this to MJ. MJ says doctors had told him it was safe and he thought he would be safe he if he had someone at home to monitor him. Lee goes to her office and gets her PDR and shows the adverse effects to MJ. MJ tells her he had Diprivan for surgery and he had fallen asleep so easily. MJ says he needed rest to work.

I wonder how much of medical information Michael had in relating to the medicine he was taking or did he just took what doctors ordered without any questions? I'm kind of leaning towards the latter as seemingly in his eyes doctors were next to God to him and could do no wrong.
-

yes, that's right, and at the same time he was trying to limit his medication, as per autopsy report, and working with Nurse Lee for 3 months. You know I have my doubts about the extent of Murray's lies. I'm not sure Michael was aware/agreed to the use of benzos. There could be 1000 things Murray told him to explain to Michael those weird symptoms. Murray prescribed valium during daytime on june 20th if I recall correctly. Medication were always prescribed at nighjt time before that. Valium is used for anxiety and, I think, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, can also be used to alleviate withdrawal symptoms. That would be from the benzos that idiot was injecting Michael with. But he could have told Michael it was anxiety.

As for the Jacksons, I agree it's not a good defense to go after them, but I honestly don't care, and I'm curious how they will deal with it on the stand. If AEG brings out interesting information about them, then that's good, but I'm not sure how it will help their case.

 

[PurdyYungThang84]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

So let me get this straight. Karen Faye, who claims that her and Michael were basically like "two-peas in a pod." So tight that the WIVES of Michael Jackson were jealous of her (LOL). Was with Michael for so many years that their friendship was unbreakable, yet she didn't want to invade his space in order to discuss his so-called drug addiction. Yeah, okay Karen, whatever you say!

Elizabeth Taylor apparently had no problem.

I wonder how she would have responded if her LIVELIHOOD were not attached to her friendship with Michael? I mean, isn't that what she, and they, are claiming that AEG did with regard to Michael's health and well-being?

All of Michael's "secrets" put on display for money. I still can't wrap my head around that, especially since THE ENTIRE WORLD knew what a private person MJ was.

Ms. Faye puts on blast that she had 2 prescriptions in her name for Michael. Even though those 2-prescriptions were harmless, in my opinion, it's STILL nobody's business.

They all make me sick to my stomach!

Yeah I know EXACTLY what you mean, but thing is, Liz wasn't on his payroll. People that were professionally close to/employed by MJ were in "danger of being out of the inner circle" if they offended him or became a nuisance with nagging and criticisms (even if it was for his own good). They stayed quiet in order to stay around. We've all heard of how Michael was a magnet for yes-men. Which is kinda what really adds insult to injury in all of this garbage.

All of the assorted friends and buddies that "cared so deeply" that, with the exception of literally a few people, pulled a Houdini and got super-invisible in '93. In '05. Then slither out to show their faces at a star-studded memorial to cry into a camera about how he meant so much to them. Did HE know how much they cared??? Or did they only tell him in private, like it was some dirty secret, to show the man love and support in public rather than in the shadows. Cuz that crowd of all those celebrity besties looked a lil' thin when it seemed Michael needed their uplifting the most. Writing tell-alls, selling counterfit merchandise, and name dropping in interviews, all to squeeze the last few viable bucks out of the magical Jackson entertainment machine. Throngs of people insulting him and belittling him behind his back and smiling to his face, these were the people he trusted. The ones that ultimately initiated his demise. :mat:

This is all one big, fat-ss, deplorable circus. Too many were so carelessly wasteful with handling his life affairs, for far far too long. Now the funeral is over and the grave-robbers have returned with shovels at midnight. DISGUST is only a tip on the TIP of my iceberg lol. But you know, I guess it's cool as long as there's a check with a bunch of zeros sitting in folk's mailboxes when all the dust settles, right?

 

[LastTear]

Ted Fikre, the general counsel for AEG , mockingly called Michael a "freak" in his email. Shown in court today.

How can anyone who cares about Michael, stick up for those freaking bullies any longer?

Although its horrible to read it is life unfortunately, not everyone thinks like we do, however, I am sure a lot of people have had a preconceived negative view of Michael which has soon changed upon meeting him.

I'm glad this trial is happening because so much is coming out that we didn't know. They treated Michael so badly. And for Randy Phillips to claim they checked Murray out when they didn't. Shameful. They should have pulled the plug on these shows with Michael the way he was. And those emails where they are insulting him are unprofessional and only highlight their true colours. I think it will only get worse for AEG.

I agree with you in part. These emails are showing AEG as unprofessional and I'm sure these words or tone would not be used in a formal letter.

 

[Victory22]

Although the e-mail is hurtful and mean it doesn't surprise me much. It's unrealistic for us to believe that the majority of entertainment exec's across the board were not calling Michael horrible names in 2009 not just some at AEG. A lot of people who are calling themselves fans now were doing the same thing. Also I'm sure if we had access to the Jackson families private talks we would hear them calling him horrible names as well so one person at AEG calling Mike a freak doesn't mean they had him killed or wished him dead.

 

[gerryevans]

Although the e-mail is hurtful and mean it doesn't surprise me much. It's unrealistic for us to believe that the majority of entertainment exec's across the board were not calling Michael horrible names in 2009 not just some at AEG. A lot of people who are calling themselves fans now were doing the same thing. Also I'm sure if we had access to the Jackson families private talks we would hear them calling him horrible names as well so one person at AEG calling Mike a freak doesn't mean they had him killed or wished him dead.

So true. And I'm thinking Katherine's attorney's opinions certainly haven't been much different. That's what makes all of this so infuriating. They stand to make tens and tens of millions for themselves if they win this suit. Whatever AEG said negatively about MJ (which can't really be a surprise to anyone), at least MJ was going to reap the greatest rewards financially. That's not the case here. MJ gets nothing but crucified by both sides.

Gerryevans, I disagree. AEG allegedly hired the doctor Michael wanted. I cannot assume others, like AllGood and Live Nation would do the same only because AEG did. .

The point is AllGood would have done anything Michael wanted them to do because he was Michael Jackson. No way would they say, "no, you can't have your personal physician Conrad Murray" if that would have prevented getting him on that stage. They would kowtow to him even more than AEG, because they would NEED him more from a business perspective. Even if they lost money on the deal, it'd put them in the big leagues to appeal to other major artist where they could make money.

Just the way they're trying to finagle every angle now to get some cash out of the estate shows they are as big of parasites as everybody else out there who wanted a piece of MJ. And if giving him the doctor he wanted would have assured the money grubbers they'd get a piece of him, they'd give him the doctor he wanted.

 

[Bubs]

yes, that's right, and at the same time he was trying to limit his medication, as per autopsy report, and working with Nurse Lee for 3 months. You know I have my doubts about the extent of Murray's lies. I'm not sure Michael was aware/agreed to the use of benzos. There could be 1000 things Murray told him to explain to Michael those weird symptoms. Murray prescribed valium during daytime on june 20th if I recall correctly. Medication were always prescribed at nighjt time before that. Valium is used for anxiety and, I think, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, can also be used to alleviate withdrawal symptoms. That would be from the benzos that idiot was injecting Michael with. But he could have told Michael it was anxiety.

Didn't Michael had muscle cramps on his legs, if I remember correctly someone mentioned that?
If so Valium can be used to relax muscles. My doctor told me to take Valium to relax muscles, but he told me to take it before bed time?

 

[Bubs]

Although the e-mail is hurtful and mean it doesn't surprise me much. It's unrealistic for us to believe that the majority of entertainment exec's across the board were not calling Michael horrible names in 2009 not just some at AEG. A lot of people who are calling themselves fans now were doing the same thing. Also I'm sure if we had access to the Jackson families private talks we would hear them calling him horrible names as well so one person at AEG calling Mike a freak doesn't mean they had him killed or wished him dead.

We don't have to see Jackson's private talks, it is all out there.
Latoya, Jermoney, Janet, Katherine Rebbie et all.


Plaintiffs only reason to show that email to the jury was to trying to embarrass AEG, whether they succeed or not, I don't know. I think some jury members themselves might have thought the same, or read it from tabloids.

I wonder what was the Jackson's reaction and actions to this:
Note, not for sensitive eyes!
http://i43.tower.com/images/mm10168...l-jackson-suzanne-ely-paperback-cover-art.jpg
There was a book and MJ's face on the cover, were Jacksons as much outraged of it as they were when they found out that AEG has a employee that thinks badly of MJ, or did they let it go doing nothing?

 

[LastTear]

^^^^^We already know their reaction to that and more...... Absolutely nothing.

 

[bouee]

Didn't Michael had muscle cramps on his legs, if I remember correctly someone mentioned that?
If so Valium can be used to relax muscles. My doctor told me to take Valium to relax muscles, but he told me to take it before bed time?

i'm not a doctor, not even a medical professionnal, but I think there are other muscle relaxants , and valium is a benzo, so it would depend on the reason of the cramps.
I had not heard about Michael's cramps before.

I found Murray's prescription, it was made on june 20th, valium (diazepam) 10mg, 1/2 to 1 pill every 6 hours, 3 pills were missing.
So Murray's intention was probably 10-20 mg/per day - maximum 30 mg/day
Michael took less , as usual, he took 30 mg, in X days, less than 5, assuming he got the pills on the 20th. And there were those weird symptoms on 21st.

Just as a guide, this is from drugs.com., though in Michael's case it has to be taken carefully since he was probably receiving other much stronger benzos at night :

http://www.drugs.com/diazepam.html
Diazepam Dosing Information

Usual Adult Dose of Diazepam for Anxiety:

Oral: 2 to 10 mg 2 to 4 times a day.
IM or IV: 2 to 5 mg (moderate anxiety) or 5 to 10 mg (severe anxiety) for one dose. May repeat in 3 to 4 hours, if necessary.

Usual Adult Dose of Diazepam for Alcohol Withdrawal:

Oral: 10 mg 3 to 4 times during the first 24 hours, then 5 mg 3 to 4 times a day as needed.
IM or IV: 5 to 10 mg one time. May repeat in 3 to 4 hours, if necessary.

Usual Adult Dose of Diazepam for Muscle Spasm:

Oral: 2 to 10 mg 3 to 4 times a day.
IM or IV: 5 to 10 mg initially, then 5 to 10 mg in 3 to 4 hours, if necessary. For tetanus, larger doses may be required.

 

[loveforever]

AEG makes my blood boiling. No matter how they 'tried to damage' Michael's name in public and in court to diminish the effect they treated Michael badly and the possible damage on their own image, they are doomed in my eyes. I won't spend a cent on anything they related.

 

[ivy]

Gerryevans, I disagree. AEG allegedly hired the doctor Michael wanted. I cannot assume others, like AllGood and Live Nation would do the same only because AEG did.

if they wanted to sign Michael, I think they would have done anything he wanted.

I'm also curious - generally speaking not aimed at you personally - why people think Live Nation is any better than AEG? Generally you don't become number 1 by being nice to people.

I am unsure why some fans are using this settlement article to somehow prove the trial motive was financial for the plaintiffs. Again, the majority of civil lawsuits in the United States end in settlement before trial and as Ivy said, settlements can be reached during trial and even after trial. The plaintiffs’ lawyer’s settlement requests were customary.

the main issue is not necessarily money. During the opening statements Jacksons lawyer said they wanted the "truth" and "justice" and then comes this "Jackson family lawyer: 'Wrongful death trial could have been avoided'". A settlement would have hid this truth. A settlement would mean you never get the know that an AEG Inc. lawyer called Michael a freak, a settlement would mean you would not read this emails. So if Jackson lawyers are now saying "'Wrongful death trial could have been avoided'" can you say this is about "truth" and "justice"?

I also disagree with "settlement request was customary" comment, most of the time it is the defendants that offer a settlement and plaintiffs accept or refuse it and go to trial.

They couldn't pull the plug. I thought it was the decision that required both AEG and MJ agreement, Ivy am I right?

yes

Also didn't they have a insurance in place to cover their losses?
Bina: Could AEG make a profit from cancellation insurance?
Trell: No, only to cover losses

^^ They were scared of having to cancel , they thought that if MJ didn't get over his fear of performing, they would eventually have to. I think I saw an email somewhere, can't recall precisely where right now, where they feared that Michael was tricking them into cancelling, calling him lazy.

Insurance was not covering the whole production costs & advances, since those costs went higher than what they expected, and they had not yet secured insurance for illness.

yeah the insurance they had was not covering illness. it needed another physical to cover it. so if they cancelled the shows they couldn't not recoup the costs from insurance.

I saw a series of emails, updating each other of the production cost or "exposure" as they called it, if the concerts did not happen. It seemed like they thought Michael might not do the concerts, not that they will cancel them.

Also judge ruled cancellation, postponing is not relevant to the issue at hand. We might not hear much about it.

 

[Big Apple2]

Although the e-mail is hurtful and mean it doesn't surprise me much. It's unrealistic for us to believe that the majority of entertainment exec's across the board were not calling Michael horrible names in 2009 not just some at AEG. A lot of people who are calling themselves fans now were doing the same thing. Also I'm sure if we had access to the Jackson families private talks we would hear them calling him horrible names as well so one person at AEG calling Mike a freak doesn't mean they had him killed or wished him dead.

I agree, and I'm sure that "some" members of THE JURY (including the alternates) have made similar comments in the privacy of their homes over the years regarding Michael. The media did a good job on Michael over the years, and we all know folks, personally, who brought the media's ramblings about MJ and have made similar comments to our faces.

Aside from the "side show," that Mother's side is presenting right now, I'm STILL waiting for some hard, substantive, evidence regarding the claims at hand. I have seen NONE thus far, unless I missed something.

I was wondering why this case would take FOUR MONTHS (or more), now I "think" I know.

P.S. When a couple of the This Is It dates got moved, there were fans who didn't have very nice things to say about Michael either. Some folks were going crazy and were acting VERY mean. That too was hurtful, in my opinion.

 

[Diplomate]

There is no surprise with the words from some members of AEG. It was business between them and Michael, about how much money we gonna earn, and Mike was in the same situation, how much I gonna earn. Business world, is not nice, but that's business.

I prefer to be seen as a freak by some business partners than a pedo by my family.

When the witnesses for AEG will start to testify? The only thing interesting in this trial will be to see the Jack$on$ testify, then it will be dirty. For them not for Mike, so I will enjoy more than the boring trial and testimony with have right now.

 

[Big Apple2]

I prefer to be seen as a freak by some business partners than a pedo by my family.

When the witnesses for AEG will start to testify? The only thing interesting in this trial will be to see the Jack$on$ testify, then it will be dirty. For them not for Mike, so I will enjoy more than the boring trial and testimony with have right now.

Well we all know what Rebbie Jackson's good friend, Stacy Brown, thinks about her brother Michael. Are they still good friend's, or did Rebbie dump his greasy behind yet? Anybody know?

I believe the "buzz" will definitely pick up when the various family members start taking the stand. In my opinion, thus far, this case is really not getting that much attention. I have a feeling that will change when Putnam starts to present his case. I also do NOT believe that all of those celebrities are going to show up. In my opinion, most of those names were only added for flair and nothing more. But like always, we shall see.

 

[Diplomate]

Well we all know what Rebbie Jackson's good friend, Stacy Brown, thinks about her brother Michael. Are they still good friend's, or did Rebbie dump his greasy behind yet? Anybody know?

I believe the "buzz" will definitely pick up when the various family members start taking the stand. In my opinion, thus far, this case is really not getting that much attention. I have a feeling that will change when Putnam starts to present his case. I also do NOT believe that all of those celebrities are going to show up. In my opinion, most of those names were only added for flair and nothing more. But like always, we shall see.

If I remember, I saw on this board one member posted some articles about Stacy Brown and Rebbie working together when she did some concerts, 2 years ago. So yes, she's still friend with a man who think her brother was a pedo, and a has been like he called Mike in July 2009.

 

[bouee]

I saw a series of emails, updating each other of the production cost or "exposure" as they called it, if the concerts did not happen. It seemed like they thought Michael might not do the concerts, not that they will cancel them.

Also judge ruled cancellation, postponing is not relevant to the issue at hand. We might not hear much about it.

"not do the concerts" you mean they feared that Michael would go to London, but eventually don't do the concert and not tell anyone until the last moment ? So, not formally cancelling the shows, I guess, but cancel them anyway.

i'm not sure I get the difference between "canceling" and "not do the shows" ?

 

[Big Apple2]

This is bit random, but does anybody know what the process is when a doctor from one country is set to practice medicine in another country?

I believe Murray had not started that process yet, but I guess at some point he was going to. IF he in fact was going at all.

Also random, I wonder how he planned to get his stash of Diprivan into another country. Or since he was a doctor, he would have been able to transport the necessary drugs, NO questions asked.

Just wondering.

 

[ivy]

"not do the concerts" you mean they feared that Michael would go to London, but eventually don't do the concert and not tell anyone until the last moment ? So, not formally cancelling the shows, I guess, but cancel them anyway.

i'm not sure I get the difference between "canceling" and "not do the shows" ?

well in my mind cancellation is an official notice saying "the concerts are cancelled". I'm thinking they thought Michael at the last minute might not take the stage. So yeah I was differentiating between a formal "yes let's cancel the shows" and being put in a position to cancel the shows

some quotes from emails

"I am much more concerned that MJ may try to breach our agreement and leave us with a mess in our hands"

" we cannot be forced into stopping this which MJ will try to do because he's lazy and constantly changes his mind to fit his immediate wants"

"I asked Tim W to estimate the cost of cancel as of the 11th hour that would be over and above these pre-tour advances. Do you even want to go there at this stage?"

"I think really answers what they want to know which is "how much will be out of pocket right before Michael hits the stage?" aka what is our risk"

"can I assume that would be the "through" - meaning the maximum amount of aggregate exposure we face before he actually gets on the stage if he was to pull out at the last minute? Not sending any bad mojo your way just want to understand what our worst case scenario is"

The reply is $23 Million and if the cancellation is insurable ($17.5 M) our loss would be $5.5 Million

edited to add :

There's another email that says " I think this number is about $30 M and I don't think we should hide from it".

 

[bouee]

This is bit random, but does anybody know what the process is when a doctor from one country is set to practice medicine in another country?

I believe Murray had not started that process yet, but I guess at some point he was going to. IF he in fact was going at all.

Also random, I wonder how he planned to get his stash of Diprivan into another country. Or since he was a doctor, he would have been able to transport the necessary drugs, NO questions asked.

Just wondering.

Each country will have their own rules. I think someone from this forum (Elusive , maybe ? ) looked it up, and couldn't tell for sure.

The question about propofol is interesting. I read somewhere (I THINK, i'm not sure) it was on Trials ans Tribulations, in the comments, that in the UK , doctors could not get propofol from pharmacies. It would only be delivered to hospitals and clinics.

 

[bouee]

Thanks Ivy.

 

[Big Apple2]

The question about propofol is interesting. I read somewhere (I THINK, i'm not sure) it was on Trials ans Tribulations, in the comments, that in the UK , doctors could not get propofol from pharmacies. It would only be delivered to hospitals and clinics.

Thanks bouee.

Too bad that isn't the case in the U.S. If so, "maybe" our sweet Michael would still be with us.

In the back of my mind, I still wonder about the recording Murray made of Michael which was played during Murray's trial. That had to be some type of insurance for Murray, in my opinion. Did he have a feeling that he would NOT be going with Michael and that's why that recording came into being. I don't know for sure, but I would definitely like to know why he made that recording and what did he plan on doing with said recording.