Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[morinen]

It just dawned on me that "she" in "Morphine" is Debbie. I always thought it was some fictional character, but it's actually Debbie.

Those lines

He tried hard to convince her
To give him more of what he had
Today he wants it twice as bad...

It's the struggle Debbie testified about at the trial:

Putnam: Were you trying to get him off the drugs? Rowe: At the very end of this time period yes P: Why? R: Because he was going on tour. "He knew you don't stay on, you can't do narcotics forever. He knew that," Rowe recalled. Rowe said Metzger designed a plan to wean him off the drugs. She said she stayed in Century City with MJ most nights. "He was my friend," Rowe said. They were friends, he was not a patient, she said. Putnam: Did you stay to help him with surgery or get off the drugs? Rowe: Both. "He was worried about the pain," she said. "I was probably one of the only people who said no to him."

Rowe: Michael was getting ready to go on tour, he wasn't completely off Demerol, but he was right there. "It was a fight to get him there because he had such fear the pain that would happen if we didn't catch it," Rowe recalled. "He was going so well, I didn't want anything to screw up," Rowe testified.

Putnam: Do you think Michael was proud of what he had done? Rowe: Michael was a prideful person. Rowe said she told MJ in Mexico City that he had a problem with drugs. During the 3 week period in Century City, she didn't say it was a problem. "I said you're taking too much, you can't take this forever." Putnam: Do you know the amount of Demerol he was taking? Rowe: Dr. Metzger probably did because of the plan he had put together. Putnam: Was it a difficult 3 weeks? Rowe: It was for Michael. The fear of the pain, he was very restless. (ABC7)

 

[Bubs]

Minor updates

- Dr. Van Valin, Dr. Adams and Dr. Ratner deposition videos are being worked on

- Joseph Marcus deposition is out unless either parties agrees on what they want to play or Marcus comes to court explains why he did not answer questions and if required sits for another deposition.

(Note: Apparently Marcus was also asked questions about prescriptions in his name and picking them up. He refused to answer questions about that topic too. judge thinks Marcus mentioning wanting a lawyer and not answering the questions could be an implied invoking the 5th - self incrimination )

- Jacksons ordered to give AEG, Katherine's finances including payroll, household budget and family finances from 2003 to present.

Thanks for the info Ivy. I'm interested in hearing Ratner's testimony.
Joseph Marcus was Neverland manager, I wonder what he has to say?

AEG is not going to get much from Jackson's. Didn't KJ testify that she didn't know whether she had a bank account at some stage? You really have to be out of reality if you don't know whether you have account or not.
I don't think she was THAT much out of touch as she was able file this lawsuit all by herself without any help from anyone:smilerolleyes:

That "family finances", does it include cubs too?

 

[Bubs]

Very sensible testimony from Dr Green. At least he put the blame of MJ's death where it belongs to - CM.
His testimony was one of the clearest and his testimony made lot of sense.

Dr. Green: Physician's duty to the patient is paramount, and that's the number one priority and what doctors should always be concerned.
"Physicians are under the obligation, regarding any interest, to put their patients first," Dr. Green expressed.
Dr. Green said Dr. Murray disregarded the Hippocratic oath, standard of care and probably violated prescribing rules.
"Regardless financial incentive, it does not take away from physician's obligation to the patient," Dr. Green explained.
"I'm sure many doctors have great deal of debt, possibly more than that, and still practice medicine in an ethical manner," Dr Green said

The bolded part, this is what I've been saying for ages. There are tons of doctors with debt, but it doesn't made them crooked. Many doctors when they start their practice have huge debt, it doesn't make them potential killers, and what plaintiff have tried to insinuate that if there is a debt, then there is a risk that debt couses them to abandon HO.
It is not only insult to doctors, but all people who is in debt.
---------------------
Bloss: If a nurse says there were no equipments at the house 4 Murray to inject MJ w/ Propofol on Apr19 is that inconsistent?
Dr. Green: No.

? The equipment wasn't there even in 06/25 and all related stuff was hidden, so nurse couldn't have seen them unless she carries the same defect than me and goes snooping other people's stuff.
---------------------
Bloss asked about another Phillips' email. Panish laughed out loud when Dr. Green responded he recalls testimony but preferred reading again
Judge called Panish out, he apologized. Judge ordered all the attorneys in her chambers for quick sidebar.

This is judges fault. She allowed this sort of carrying on since day one, and Panish got gocky that he will get away with anything. At least now she has started taking control over what is going on in her court room, and don't allow Panish behave like school yard bully.

 

[LastTear]

So true. It is almost as though he feels he is putting the defense at a disadvantage if he keeps them dangling on a string. I can't figure out any other motive, since all he has to do is to add the extra testimony to his rebuttal.

Aquarius Katherine and Joe are still married, and doesn't California have some law where spouses share 50-50 in property or something like that?

Anyway, I think the plan is already made about what to do with the money. Katherine will give each child an amount right away. Joe will get some too, because after all that is her husband. When K dies the grandchild probably will get the rest of the money she got from the settlement.

Anyway I don't think Katherine will get money. I think if AEG loses they will tie up this case in appeals for years, and Katherine is already in her 80s.

I think only if they divorce the 50/50 would come into it.

If this goes to appeal then KJ's beneficiaries of her estate would continue with any appeal.

*******
Re: Debbie and the Oreo comment, I actually took it in a more offensive way - someone being one colour on the outside but another on the inside. BUT, even though I am not particularly a fan of Debbie's - I am absolutely certain it wasn't meant in an offensive way.

 

[Vici]

Debbie Rowe reveals 19 new details in Michael Jackson trial testimony

2. Rowe said she is closer to Paris than her and Jackson's 16-year-old son Prince, and that she and the girl began spending time together this past April and talked on the phone every day.

"She stayed weekends with me," she added.

3. Rowe said she saw Prince at least once after Jackson died, adding: "We don't hate each other."

4. Rowe, who gave up her parental rights after she and Jackson divorced in 1999, said it was her decision to have Prince and Paris live with the singer.

When asked if she regretted it, she said: "No. Michael wanted to be a father. I didn't sign on to be a mom. I loved him very much and I still do. I wanted him to be a father, to have everything he didn't have growing up, to experience it with his own children."

5. Rowe recalled how Jackson was "devastated" after his divorce from first wife Lisa Marie Presley. She asked him what would make him the happiest, to which he responded: "I want to be a father."

Rowe described how she told Jackson he was going to become one. The conversation took place on a tarmac.

"I said, 'You're going to be a dad," she told the court, sobbing. "He was so excited. He ran out in the tarmac, screaming."

6. Jackson "wanted to be the best dad he could be," Rowe said

Rowe said the singer bought parenting books and that she asked him to record two cassette tapes for Prince while she was pregnant.

"I had a headset over my stomach, so the baby could hear him," she said.

7. Jackson picked out baby clothes, Rowe said, adding: "I was pregnant ... he was picking clothes for his own children."

8. She would watch movies with Jackson a lot, sometimes at his home theater and sometimes at public cinemas.

9. Rowe said Jackson would call her up just to say that the 1962 film "To Kill A Mockingbird" was on, adding: "He was great friends with Gregory Peck." The actor played Atticus Finch in the movie, which is based on Harper Lee's iconic 1960 novel. Rowe said Peck would answer Jackson's questions about the film over the phone.

10. Rowe said Jackson was "very contemplative" and that they would go to Forest Lawn Cemetery, which overlooks Griffith Park, adding: "Michael loved sculptures. I never realized that's a place he could go and it was quiet ... and just be himself. It was nice."

Jackson, who died on June 25, 2009 at age 50, was laid to rest at Forest Lawn.

11. Rowe would take Jackson out when he felt depressed.

12. Rowe recalled a time she and Jackson went to Tower Records without security guards. The store was not crowded. Jackson began browsing a rack of CDs.

"Then I hear from across the room, 'Debbie, do you know this?'" Rowe told the court. "Then everyone knew who he was. The store was packed in 20 minutes."

Rowe said she then locked herself with Jackson in the bathroom at the Tower Records store and called his security guards to come and pick them up, adding: "I got in so much trouble."

13. Jackson paid for Rowe to go back to college. "He helped whoever he could," she said.

14. Rowe spoke about Jackson's vitiligo, a disease that causes discoloration of the skin. The singer was born black and began appearing white in the 1980s, spurring a flurry of rumors and conspiracy theories (Note: During Murray's 2011 trial, it was revealed that 30 tubes of skin whitening cream were found at Jackson's home after his death).

"The thing with vitiligo, the color can come and go and if you go on the sun you can get sunburn," Rowe told the court. "For Michael, it came and went for a good period of the time. It was easy to cover with makeup. Everybody said he bleached himself, but he didn't."

"It's easier to change to go to lighter color and try to match with makeup," she added. "It's hard to match dark skin -- they don't make good makeup for dark skin."

15. Jackson had trouble sleeping, even when he wasn't working.

"He had difficulty to sleep anywhere, it wasn't just a tour problem," Rowe said. "I'd see him go four days without sleep because he was thinking of a song or a project he wanted to do."

18. Rowe said Jackson "was my friend before anything else," adding: "I'm so freaking lucky."

19. She recalled seeing him perform on stage.

"He'd still ask, 'How did I do, did I do OK?' Really dude, you didn't hear 55,000 people screaming? I think you did OK," she told the court. "It was an athletic event to see him perform."

http://www.ontheredcarpet.com/Debbi...ls-in-Michael-Jackson-trial-testimony/9209027

 

[MIST]

Michael went into respiratory arrest, so CPR wouldn't help

Mouth-to-mouth resuscitation would have helped if Michael recently had stopped breathing.
I think there was a breathing mask in the room.
I don´t know if Michael´s heart had stopped beating when Murray found him.

We know Michael wouldn´t have died if he was monitored.

 

[LastTear]

Can somebody help me make sense of this:

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr. Green said he cannot testify to the exact date because Dr. Murray kept no records to maintain it secretive.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Bloss: Was Dr. Murray giving MJ Propofol on April 19th and 12th at Carolwood?
Dr. Green: Yes
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"It's not inconsistent somebody seeking drugs from several sources" Dr Green said. "Particularly with that drug which wasn't easy to obtain"
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr. Green: We see addicts and they go to multiple sources, I could only speculate why MJ was seeking Propofol from more than one person.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
On Apr 19, MJ asked Cherilyn Lee to find someone to give him Propofol, Bloss said. He asked if it'd be consistent w/ Murray there same day
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Bloss: Do you have information MJ was seeking Propofol from people other than Dr. Murray?
Dr. Green: Yes, Dr. Metzger and Cherilyn Lee.

 

[Aquarius]

Please someone, why Panish didn't want to rest his case if he still has a chance to call more witnesses in his rebuttal?

 

[#MJforever57]

It just dawned on me that "she" in "Morphine" is Debbie. I always thought it was some fictional character, but it's actually Debbie.

Those lines

He tried hard to convince her
To give him more of what he had
Today he wants it twice as bad...

It's the struggle Debbie testified about at the trial:

Do you think she was in Black and White?


I took my baby on a Saturday bang
Boy is that girl with you're yes we're one and the same
Now i believe in miracles and a miracles has happened tonight

But if you're think in about my baby it don't matter if you Black or White.

 

[ivy]

Please someone, why Panish didn't want to rest his case if he still has a chance to call more witnesses in his rebuttal?

we can only speculate that he doesn't want the judge to consider the dismissal request

normally it's plaintiffs main case - defense main case - plaintiff rebuttal. rebuttal witnesses is limited to witnesses to rebut what was argued by the defense. Rebuttal cannot be used to bring in totally new and unrelated stuff.

motion of non suit / dismissal request based on the argument that plaintiffs did not and can not prove their case can only be done and considered after plaintiffs rest their main case.

so you can see, Panish resting their case would not affect his ability to call rebuttal witnesses on the stand to debunk AEG's arguments. However his not resting his main case would affect the consideration of the nonsuit motion.

 

[#MJforever57]

Minor updates

- Dr. Van Valin, Dr. Adams and Dr. Ratner deposition videos are being worked on

- Joseph Marcus deposition is out unless either parties agrees on what they want to play or Marcus comes to court explains why he did not answer questions and if required sits for another deposition.

(Note: Apparently Marcus was also asked questions about prescriptions in his name and picking them up. He refused to answer questions about that topic too. judge thinks Marcus mentioning wanting a lawyer and not answering the questions could be an implied invoking the 5th - self incrimination )

- Jacksons ordered to give AEG, Katherine's finances including payroll, household budget and family finances from 2003 to present.

What what do their want with that?

 

[ivy]

- Jacksons ordered to give AEG, Katherine's finances including payroll, household budget and family finances from 2003 to present.

What what do their want with that?

It's related to Katherine's damages claims. How much money Michael gave her is relevant to determine her loss of support. that being said I expect a reply of no documents available.

 

[#MJforever57]

Murray kept no records of what he was doing with Michael. That was brought out in Murray trial i do believe i could be wrong
feel free to correct.

 

[#MJforever57]

It's related to Katherine's damages claims. How much money Michael gave her is relevant to determine her loss of support. that being said I expect a reply of no documents available.

Okay thank Ivy.

You could be right Michael gave his mother gifts and money

 

[Soundmind]

Can somebody help me make sense of this:

As usual AEG can't help but twist what was in the depositions . They are claiming now MJ wanted to get propofol from Murray , Lee and Metzeger at the same time , which means he was doctor shopping . When in fact he was looking for another doctor to help Murray .
He had no idea whether Murray gave MJ propofol on those days , clearly Murray never said that , speculation to inflame the jurors , they choose the dates he spoke to Lee and Metzeger to claim he wanted to get it from multiple resources "typical addict behaviour" That screams desperation . Criminals I would say , why do they feel so much threatened if they really believe they have a strong case ? why twist the facts like that ? I believe Debbie's testimony was hard on them , they needed to attack MJ's character again .

 

[#MJforever57]

Mouth-to-mouth resuscitation would have helped if Michael recently had stopped breathing.
I think there was a breathing mask in the room.
I don´t know if Michael´s heart had stopped beating when Murray found him.

We know Michael wouldn´t have died if he was monitored.

That is so true.

 

[LastTear]

As usual AEG can't help but twist what was in the depositions . They are claiming now MJ wanted to get propofol from Murray , Lee and Metzeger at the same time , which means he was doctor shopping . When in fact he was looking for another doctor to help Murray .
He had no idea whether Murray gave MJ propofol on those days , clearly Murray never said that , speculation to inflame the jurors , they choose the dates he spoke to Lee and Metzeger to claim he wanted to get it from multiple resources "typical addict behaviour" That screams desperation . Criminals I would say , why do they feel so much threatened if they really believe they have a strong case ? why twist the facts like that ? I believe Debbie's testimony was hard on them , they needed to attack MJ's character again .

I felt that Green was clear on apportioning blame to Murray. It was just odd how you can jump from saying a certain date to not actually knowing the dates. Green is back on Monday so might be addressed again.

these questions were under cross exam, I couldn't see any reference to them under direct. Sometimes it's just not clear via twitter.

 

[#MJforever57]

As usual AEG can't help but twist what was in the depositions . They are claiming now MJ wanted to get propofol from Murray , Lee and Metzeger at the same time , which means he was doctor shopping . When in fact he was looking for another doctor to help Murray .
He had no idea whether Murray gave MJ propofol on those days , clearly Murray never said that , speculation to inflame the jurors , they choose the dates he spoke to Lee and Metzeger to claim he wanted to get it from multiple resources "typical addict behaviour" That screams desperation . Criminals I would say , why do they feel so much threatened if they really believe they have a strong case ? why twist the facts like that ? I believe Debbie's testimony was hard on them , they needed to attack MJ's character again .

You hit it on the head.

 

[#MJforever57]

I felt that Green was clear on apportioning blame to Murray. It was just odd how you can jump from saying a certain date to not actually knowing the dates. Green is back on Monday so might be addressed again.

these questions were under cross exam, I couldn't see any reference to them under direct. Sometimes it's just not clear via twitter.

I felt that too everything Murray was doing was wrong.

 

[bouee]

Can somebody help me make sense of this:

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr. Green said he cannot testify to the exact date because Dr. Murray kept no records to maintain it secretive.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Bloss: Was Dr. Murray giving MJ Propofol on April 19th and 12th at Carolwood?
Dr. Green: Yes
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"It's not inconsistent somebody seeking drugs from several sources" Dr Green said. "Particularly with that drug which wasn't easy to obtain"
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr. Green: We see addicts and they go to multiple sources, I could only speculate why MJ was seeking Propofol from more than one person.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
On Apr 19, MJ asked Cherilyn Lee to find someone to give him Propofol, Bloss said. He asked if it'd be consistent w/ Murray there same day
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Bloss: Do you have information MJ was seeking Propofol from people other than Dr. Murray?
Dr. Green: Yes, Dr. Metzger and Cherilyn Lee.

I have not read the whole thing yet, but from this quote , my understanding is :
- Green trying to say Michael was trying to get propofol from different sources, doctor shopping for propofol (which could have been true, but he doesn't know, he can only "speculate")
- Bloss trying to say Michael was not getting propofol on april 19th and 12th
-Bolded : Green caught in a contradiction : saying Michael was receiving propofol on 19th and 12th, and then having to say he can not know since there were no records. That goes for the argument saying propofol started before Murray had a contract with AEG, or before may 1st

That's a bit damaging for the expert

 

[twinklEE]

As usual AEG can't help but twist what was in the depositions . They are claiming now MJ wanted to get propofol from Murray , Lee and Metzeger at the same time , which means he was doctor shopping . When in fact he was looking for another doctor to help Murray .
He had no idea whether Murray gave MJ propofol on those days , clearly Murray never said that , speculation to inflame the jurors , they choose the dates he spoke to Lee and Metzeger to claim he wanted to get it from multiple resources "typical addict behaviour" That screams desperation . Criminals I would say , why do they feel so much threatened if they really believe they have a strong case ? why twist the facts like that ? I believe Debbie's testimony was hard on them , they needed to attack MJ's character again .

True.

 

[ivy]

FYI - the testimony summary thread has been updated and as of now we are caught up with the testimony.

 

[LastTear]

I have not read the whole thing yet, but from this quote , my understanding is :
- Green trying to say Michael was trying to get propofol from different sources, doctor shopping for propofol (which could have been true, but he doesn't know, he can only "speculate")
- Bloss trying to say Michael was not getting propofol on april 19th and 12th
-Bolded : Green caught in a contradiction : saying Michael was receiving propofol on 19th and 12th, and then having to say he can not know since there were no records. That goes for the argument saying propofol started before Murray had a contract with AEG, or before may 1st

That's a bit damaging for the expert

Perhaps, that's certainly a possibility. It's odd though as Green said 'yes' the next tweet says cant be sure without a question to it, so I didn't know whether a question was missed from the tweet or whether Green simply carried on with his answer - given that they were hypothetically discussing whether Michael would ask Lee if he was already obtaining the propofol from Murray. But I absolutely agree with you that the line of questioning was based on the timing of AEG's involvement with Murray.

 

[ivy]

Can somebody help me make sense of this:

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr. Green said he cannot testify to the exact date because Dr. Murray kept no records to maintain it secretive.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Bloss: Was Dr. Murray giving MJ Propofol on April 19th and 12th at Carolwood?
Dr. Green: Yes
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"It's not inconsistent somebody seeking drugs from several sources" Dr Green said. "Particularly with that drug which wasn't easy to obtain"
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Dr. Green: We see addicts and they go to multiple sources, I could only speculate why MJ was seeking Propofol from more than one person.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
On Apr 19, MJ asked Cherilyn Lee to find someone to give him Propofol, Bloss said. He asked if it'd be consistent w/ Murray there same day
Expand
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Bloss: Do you have information MJ was seeking Propofol from people other than Dr. Murray?
Dr. Green: Yes, Dr. Metzger and Cherilyn Lee.

You need to look to what he previously testified during direct as well. Murray has ordered Propofol in April 6th and reordered it in April 28th. Green testified that use of Propofol predated AEG. So he's alleging Murray was giving Propofol before the contract start date of May 1.

Jacksons are trying to debunk it. They start by asking if Murray was giving Propofol on April 12 and April 19 (the dates Michael met with Lee and Metzger), Green says yes - in his opinion based on earlier dated propofol purchases but he cannot tell exact dates as Murray did not keep records.

Jackson lawyer asks if Murray was giving Michael any Propofol why would Michael ask Metzger and Lee for it. In this instance Jackson lawyer is trying to claim that Murray wasn't giving Propofol - pre AEG - and that's why Michael was asking to other people. He's trying to claim that if Michael was getting propofol he wouldn't be asking others, it's inconsistent behavior with what Green claiming Murray was giving him Propofol. Green disagrees that it is inconsistent and he says it is consistent behavior as addicts would seek drugs - especially hard to get drugs- from multiple sources. so he's trying to say even if Murray was giving him Propofol , it would make Michael seek it from other sources as well.

 

[bouee]

Very sensible testimony from Dr Green. At least he put the blame of MJ's death where it belongs to - CM.
His testimony was one of the clearest and his testimony made lot of sense.

Dr. Green: Physician's duty to the patient is paramount, and that's the number one priority and what doctors should always be concerned.
"Physicians are under the obligation, regarding any interest, to put their patients first," Dr. Green expressed.
Dr. Green said Dr. Murray disregarded the Hippocratic oath, standard of care and probably violated prescribing rules.
"Regardless financial incentive, it does not take away from physician's obligation to the patient," Dr. Green explained.

yes at last, an AEG witness blames Murray. Good to hear. I wish he would not blame Michael as well.

"I'm sure many doctors have great deal of debt, possibly more than that, and still practice medicine in an ethical manner," Dr Green said

The bolded part, this is what I've been saying for ages. There are tons of doctors with debt, but it doesn't made them crooked. Many doctors when they start their practice have huge debt, it doesn't make them potential killers, and what plaintiff have tried to insinuate that if there is a debt, then there is a risk that debt couses them to abandon HO.
It is not only insult to doctors, but all people who is in debt.

I'm sure most cardiologists, especially if they are successful and have clinics that make 1 million/month (as per Kathy Jorrie) pay their debts back.

That's the problem, the problem is not debt itself, it's that he was not paying it back. And Phillips was aware of that possibility - a doctor behaving unethically because of money - as per his email to reassure Ortega about Murray : "he's sucessful, doesn't need this gig".

 

[LastTear]

Thank you for the summaries Ivy.

Bloss showed Kai Chase's testimony, where she said she didn't see Dr. Murray as much in April, was there about 3 times a week. Dr. Green said he was not accurate when he mentioned Chase said Dr. Murray was at Carolwood in March of 2009.

Dr. Green said on April 19, 2009, Dr. Metzger went to Carolwood to meet MJ. He said MJ asked for sleep medication. Bloss: Do you recall MJ asked Cherilyn Lee to give him sleep aid? I don't recall dates, need to see the testimony. Bloss: If a nurse says there were no equipments at the house 4 Murray to inject MJ w/ Propofol on Apr19 is that inconsistent? Dr. Green: No. Bloss: Do you have information MJ was seeking Propofol from people other than Dr. Murray? Dr. Green: Yes, Dr. Metzger and Cherilyn Lee. On Apr 19, MJ asked Cherilyn Lee to find someone to give him Propofol, Bloss said. He asked if it'd be consistent w/ Murray there same day. Dr. Green: We see addicts and they go to multiple sources, I could only speculate why MJ was seeking Propofol from more than one person. "It's not inconsistent somebody seeking drugs from several sources" Dr Green said. "Particularly with that drug which wasn't easy to obtain"


Bloss: Was Dr. Murray giving MJ Propofol on April 19th and 12th at Carolwood? Dr. Green: Yes. Dr. Green said he cannot testify to the exact date because Dr. Murray kept no records to maintain it secretive.

Makes a lot more sense now, this is why I appreciate your summaries.

 

[bouee]

we can only speculate that he doesn't want the judge to consider the dismissal request

normally it's plaintiffs main case - defense main case - plaintiff rebuttal. rebuttal witnesses is limited to witnesses to rebut what was argued by the defense. Rebuttal cannot be used to bring in totally new and unrelated stuff.

motion of non suit / dismissal request based on the argument that plaintiffs did not and can not prove their case can only be done and considered after plaintiffs rest their main case.

so you can see, Panish resting their case would not affect his ability to call rebuttal witnesses on the stand to debunk AEG's arguments. However his not resting his main case would affect the consideration of the nonsuit motion.

Could he also be trying to keep the possibility as long as he can to introduce new witnesses ? Such as Grace that comes and goes, in case she can testify between 2 trips to India, for ex, or others.

 

[Petrarose]

What I like about Green is that he is saying so much of what we have been saying all along. It seems we are smarter than we think. I have picked out a few examples below:

-Dr. Green said Dr. Matheson wanted AEG to go around MJ and find another physician for him.
- "Continuity of care is a very important principle," Dr. Green explain. That way the doctor knows the history of the patient.
- Dr. Green: AEG Live looked at other possibilities and in response MJ, a competent adult, said no, I want my own doctor.
- "In this case, MJ chose Dr. Murray as his own physician and wanted him to go on tour," Dr. Green opined.
- "Patients and competent adults have the right to choose their own physician," Dr. Green testified.


He also talked about how Michel had prof use before the contract and Muarry with Michael before AEG contract:

-Dr. Murray re-ordered Propofol on April 28, 2009, Dr. Green said.
- Dr. Green: I think it's very clear the relationship of Murray-MJ pre-date AEG being involved. Furthermore, his use of Propofol pre-dates AEG
- Dr. Green pointed out that all of that happened before AEG Live had any knowledge of Dr. Murray.
- On April 6, 2009, Dr. Murray ordered Propofol to be shipped to LA, the expert said.
- Kai Chase testified Dr. Murray was frequently at Carolwood house in April, May and June 2009.
- Dr. Green: MJ had a physical in 2009 with Dr. Slavit. He asked who was his personal physician and MJ said Dr. Murray.
- Timeline per Dr. Green:
2006 -- Dr Murray begins treating Jackson family
January 2009 -- Dr. Murray treated Prince and Michael in LA
- "There's no evidence of Michael Jackson use of Propofol to AEG," Dr. Green opined.
-"If Dr. Matheson is correct and terms of contract influenced Murray's behavior, he started treating him way before contract draft" he said
- First draft of the contract was June 16. "Dr. Murray's behavior in this case and care to MJ began way before that," Dr. Green explained.


He demonstrates what aspects indicate that Muarry was independent of AEG so no conflict of interest:

-"If Dr. Murray were taking orders from AEG Live, he'd not have told people to stay in their lane," Dr. Green opined.
-"That was selected by Michael Jackson," Dr. Green opined. "There was no secrecy, he requested Dr. Murray to go on tour."
- Dr. Green: Dr. Murray knew AEG Live would be advancing the money on behalf of MJ, MJ knew AEG would advance the money.
-Dr. Green: It was to be signed by Dr. Murray, MJ and AEG Live. There was nothing hidden.
-"There's no secret arrangement," Dr. Green said. "In this situation, everything was out in the open."
- Evidence does not support claim that AEG Live directed medical care
- Timing of contract drafts doesn't support Matheson's claims

* Refused to provide medical records to insurers
* Requested contract changes to increase independence
* Advised MJ not to go to rehearsal
* Told tour personnel to "stay in their lane"
- No secret arrangement - Jackson requested Dr. Murray
- Dr. Murray demonstrated independence from AEG Live
2- Facts Don't Support Alleged Conflicts
- Health interests of MJ, Dr. Murray and AEG Live were aligned
- "It was Dr. Murray's interest to keep MJ healthy to have him perform the shows," Dr. Green opined.
-If there were no tour, do you have any reason to believe Dr. Murray would be paid $150,000 a month?
Dr. Green: No, I do not.
-"AEG Live needed a healthy MJ to be in good health, this was a long tour," he expressed.
-"Dr. Murray wanted MJ to be healthy, it's his ethical obligation and he wanted him to complete the tour," he said.
- "MJ wanted to remain healthy to do the tour," he said.
- Dr. Green explained that in order for conflict of interest to exist, each party had to have different interests.
- Dr. Green explained the Jackson family claim there was conflict between AEG and Murray to influence the type of medical care used with MJ.
-"This just shows Dr. Murray independence to advise MJ not to attend rehearsal," Dr. Green said.


I liked when he said this below because the plaintiffs are always picking lines from the e-mails and asking the witnesses about it:

-"You need to look at the context of this email, you can't just pull out a word here or there," Dr. Green said.

He commented that information said does not mean it was communicated to Muarry:

-Dr. Green said he doesn't believe either Gongaware or anyone else at AEG told Dr. Murray "it's AEG, not MJ, who's paying his salary."
-"The fact that it was never communicated to Dr. Murray let me believe it was not influencing," Dr. Green explained.

 

[ivy]

Could he also be trying to keep the possibility as long as he can to introduce new witnesses ? Such as Grace that comes and goes, in case she can testify between 2 trips to India, for ex, or others.

Grace could come as a rebuttal witness. He could call new people as long as they are testifying about the already raised up topics. The only limitation is that you cannot introduce new topics during rebuttal.So unless he plans to include a new theory the very last minute, I don't see why he can't rest and call whomever he needs as rebuttal witnesses to debunk what AEG claims.

 

[bouee]

Grace could come as a rebuttal witness. He could call new people as long as they are testifying about the already raised up topics. The only limitation is that you cannot introduce new topics during rebuttal.So unless he plans to include a new theory the very last minute, I don't see why he can't rest and call whomever he needs as rebuttal witnesses to debunk what AEG claims.

Why : keep the possibility to adapt to what AEG is saying - unfair, but , wouldn't put it past him, or past either of them.
The judge will rule about the motion anyway, and the more AEG develop their arguments, the more she might rule in their favor, so that wouldn't be super smart either, if that's what he was trying to do .