Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[Petrarose]

" he did not tell anyone , propofol was his darkest secret .....etc " Rowe was his WIFE , she knew . The nanny knew , his doctor in LA knew , he was the one who organized everything . Puntnm can't be happy with her testimony .




The jurors got to see the pictures of keloids , no wonder AEG's lawyers objected . God forbid the jurors think he was taking meds for legitimate reasons , he was FAKING his pain to get drugs , that what AEG claimed they would prove , so far none of the medical professionals testified he faked anything to get drugs.

Randy , Janet and Rebbie Jackson I bet none of them heard about MJ suffering from keloids .

The objection was to the photo of the vitiligo and not the keloids--at least from the articles I read last night. About the production knowing about Michael, it seems to me that Rowe is saying some of the people knew, but what did they know. They obviously saw Michael looking dazed and thought he was getting some drugs. Did they know why? Rowe did not say. Did they know what he was taking? Rowe did not say. Therefore, how would AEG know what the drugs were. I doubt when Debbie hung out with the dancers she said Michael is taking XYZ and he is an addict.

 

[crillon]

Does anyone know why it was allowed Debbie to talk about the parenting of Prince and Paris? I thought it was not allowed. A few weeks ago when Taj was asked if Debbie is in contact with the childreen the Jackson's made a objection and I think the jury was instructed by the Judge that the relationship from Debbie to the children (if she has one) is not an issue in the process. Sometimes I do not understand the handling of the rules.

This just adds to all the other extraneous, insignificant testimony allowed in this trial and the inconsistent rulings from the judge. I suppose Panish could have objected, but the judge may have over-ruled it despite her earlier instructions.

I think everyone involved--judge, lawyers, jury (fans!)--are burned out from this never-ending saga of a trial.

 

[Aquarius]

It´s a pity he didn´t wake up.
Had he woken up he had started breathing again and had not died.
I´m sure CM can do CPR but when he came back to Michael after the talk to the girlfriends he saw Michael had died and it was no return it had gone to long.
Screaming for help and doing improper CPR was just a show for the galleries,he panicked and didn´t know what to do.

Actually what I meant is that he didn't regain consciousness. And I think, please correct me if I'm wrong, that Michael went into respiratory arrest, so CPR wouldn't help. And who knows, if I'm right, maybe Conrad went with the CPR and Michael didn't need that. Also, he didn't finish talking with his gf & then found Michael dead. The conversation was interrupted by Conrad after he saw or heard something. The girlfriend said she heard noises & someone coughing. But no matter what, Conrad was to stay put & watch Michael every second and he didn't do it and Michael died. Michael had to pay with his life for Conrad's incompetence and he is soon to come out & enjoy life.

 

[Aquarius]

" he did not tell anyone , propofol was his darkest secret .....etc " Rowe was his WIFE , she knew . The nanny knew , his doctor in LA knew , he was the one who organized everything . Puntnm can't be happy with her testimony .

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Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 43m
Rowe said she felt Jackson was always open and honest with her.
Chang: “Did he ever try to hide any drugs from you?”
“Not that I know of.”
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Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 43m
Chang asked whether Rowe remembered Paul Gongaware from the “Dangerous” tour. She did not.
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Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 44m
Rowe: “It wasn't a secret. I used to hang out with the dancers and the people who worked with him.”
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Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 44m
Jackson’s struggles with pain medications were well-known on his “Dangerous” tour, Rowe said.
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Randy , Janet and Rebbie Jackson I bet none of them heard about MJ suffering from keloids .

You're noting the people you say knew about the over-use of meds are the people who were involved in giving the meds and the nanny who practically live in the same house/hotels with Michael and that will be his inner circle.

I don't think her answer that it wasn't secret because she used to hang out with the dancers is not a proper answer to the question. Were they talking about the moon & the stars or was she telling them "Michael is having propofol/meds tonight?"

Even with the medical equipment being brought to the hotel her answer doesn't make sense to me. Wasn't the equipment covered & if it wasn't, did everyone know the equipment was to monitor Michael when he was under?

I don't know but to me her answers doesn't clarify what other people knew and she didn't tell what she told the dancers.

 

[Aquarius]

Your rant is my rant. It is SO unfair that the only ones who will benefit from KJ winning (Michael’s siblings and the siblings children) don’t even have to show their face in court and certainly not have their most private secrets revealed. If KJ wins, all of her portion will go into her estate to leave to her 8 living children and their children yet none of them are suffering because of this lawsuit. This will not benefit Michael nor his children. What will the extra money buy them? Happiness? A loving family?

KJ will not need to ever spend any of the money she receives if she wins because she lives off of the money Michael left for her. If he wanted his 8 siblings to get money from him he would have included them in his trust. Who doesn’t understand that?

I asked once before and didn't get an answer. Would Joe, as husband, get something from Katherine?

 

[jamba]

I will enlighten you on the 'wife/woman beating' Steven Randall was convicted of beating his then wife and their baby, he went to jail and psychiatric ward for it. Jermaine Jackson was accused by nearly every woman he has had children with of being violent/aggressive toward them. At least 1 other brother was accused of domestic violence but I don't remember which one. With everything said and done their actions in the past and present, along with their overall behavior speak louder than a million words. If it hadn't been for Michael getting them out of the ghetto, some of these ''cubs'' would have been in jail and/or doing more criminal/shady stuff. They should have been kissing the ground Michael walked on, but they chose to resent and hate him out of jealousy and greed. It wasn't Michael's fault they were inferior to him when it came to talent, charisma, aura and presence. It wasn't Michael's fault that he was hardworking and ambitious and they weren't or not to the extent. Michael despite of everything he had achieved, believed in hard work; in putting your soul into something in order to achieve success, to get somewhere. The brothers however just wanted fame, money, success, love, respect, handed over to them just because they were related to Michael, delusions of grandeur.

Also 3 of them were repeatedly in court for being dead-beat dads, i.e. paying zero child support, even thiough it was court-ordered, for their very own children! This is kind of a reverse Billie Jean--The kid IS my son but I ain't gonna pay for him.

Here is a quote from Margaret Maldonado:

"Although I dedicate this book to my sons, I want to extend that dedication to all former wives who are struggling as single parents. I urge you to make every effort to collect money designated by the court for your children. It is owed them. Don't give up."

"I practice what I preach. As of this writing, the District Attorney of Los Angeles has agreed to investigate Jermaine LaJuane Jackson's criminal failure to provide child support. He will be the third Jackson brother to be pursued by the District Attorney's office for failure to provide the financial support their children are entitled to and deserve" (235).

 

[jamba]

AP

In addition to testimony, one development this morning was that the plaintiff's rested their case. Attorney Brian Panish didn't want to but Judge Yvette Palazuelos told him she would tell the jury the plaintiff's case was done if he didn't. The judge said it didn't foreclose Panish from calling additional witnesses during his rebuttal case. Plaintiff's resting will allow for argument on an AEG motion to dismiss the case at some point. No word on when those arguments will happen


------------------

I have never seen a lawyer not wanting to rest their case...

Panish is one for the books.

 

[jamba]

Bubs, Last Tear, Michael was told as long as he was monitored under propofol, he would be safe. He was not told to check for equipment before going under. When anyone of us go for surgery, do we ask specifically what each piece of equipment is, what it will be used for, and IF it will be used or do we trust the doctor to do no harm?

I would like to ask those in this thread: did anyone ever ask themselves what time period Randy was referring to when he said Michael enjoyed touring and slept well or did you assume it was Michael's solo years he was referring to?

The last time MJ toured with his brothers was the Victory tour in 1984. They did 55 shows. At the last show, MJ announced that was the end of the Jacksons touring as a group. And they never did tour again together although the brothers appeared at the MSG 30th anniversary of MJ's careeer in 2001. So that last tour is the only first hand knowledge Randy would have--dating back to 1984.

 

[Petrarose]

Panish is one for the books.

So true. It is almost as though he feels he is putting the defense at a disadvantage if he keeps them dangling on a string. I can't figure out any other motive, since all he has to do is to add the extra testimony to his rebuttal.

Aquarius Katherine and Joe are still married, and doesn't California have some law where spouses share 50-50 in property or something like that?

Anyway, I think the plan is already made about what to do with the money. Katherine will give each child an amount right away. Joe will get some too, because after all that is her husband. When K dies the grandchild probably will get the rest of the money she got from the settlement.

Anyway I don't think Katherine will get money. I think if AEG loses they will tie up this case in appeals for years, and Katherine is already in her 80s.

 

[crillon]

Actually what I meant is that he didn't regain consciousness. And I think, please correct me if I'm wrong, that Michael went into respiratory arrest, so CPR wouldn't help. And who knows, if I'm right, maybe Conrad went with the CPR and Michael didn't need that. Also, he didn't finish talking with his gf & then found Michael dead. The conversation was interrupted by Conrad after he saw or heard something. The girlfriend said she heard noises & someone coughing. But no matter what, Conrad was to stay put & watch Michael every second and he didn't do it and Michael died. Michael had to pay with his life for Conrad's incompetence and he is soon to come out & enjoy life.

Had Murray attached a pulse monitor OR he was actually by Michael's bedside to see he was having breathing problems, all Murray had to do at that point to SAVE HIS LIFE was to tip his chin upward, acc to testimony in criminal trial.

 

[jamba]

re bolded : so my comment (actually our comments since there are several of us making the same comments) are not "kind of wrong" unless you misunderstand them ("misunderstand is a word you like to use).
It's saying what you wrote (in bold).

It would be nice, for the sake of obejctivity, to see you "explain" the Jacksons line of arguments as much as AEG's. There are 2 sides in this trial, not only one.

See, to me, this statement is an unnecessary insult. How can anyone not know that this is a trial with a plaintiff and a defense. We are not stupid here, so why imply that we can't get to first base? That is demeaning and not respectful of the board or the posters. You are not the only person who puts a lot of thought and effort into dealing with the details of the trial. Some of us have different perspectives and we are not in a group-think modality where we all agree with one another. That is to be expected. Human beings will argue about anything. However, if we are so useless that we can't recognize the fundamentals of this trial--a charge and a defense of that charge, then we might as well hang it up. Bouee, where is the respect for other people posting here--other people who may have different views??

 

[crillon]

So true. It is almost as though he feels he is putting the defense at a disadvantage if he keeps them dangling on a string. I can't figure out any other motive, since all he has to do is to add the extra testimony to his rebuttal.

Aquarius Katherine and Joe are still married, and doesn't California have some law where spouses share 50-50 in property or something like that?

Anyway, I think the plan is already made about what to do with the money. Katherine will give each child an amount right away. Joe will get some too, because after all that is her husband. When K dies the grandchild probably will get the rest of the money she got from the settlement.

Anyway I don't think Katherine will get money. I think if AEG loses they will tie up this case in appeals for years, and Katherine is already in her 80s.

Exactly! If AEG loses, they can keep this suspended in appeals court for a very long time and they have the deep pockets to do it. And, I am hoping the Estate draws the line on how much they're willing to front Katherine for legal fees. When I found out Michael's Estate was paying the lawyers for this boondoggle, I could not believe it. Why would the Estate have to pay for Katherine et al to queue up a trial in which Michael's reputation is trashed and then Michael has to pay for it? Why would Branca approve that! IDGI.

 

[ivy]

^^

Normally plaintiff or prosecution's side will be easier to understand. They are the ones who are filing the complaint or the charges. So everyone will understand what the trial is about. Defense arguments however aren't generally known until the summary judgment & actual trial.

@jamba - don't worry bouee wasn't trying to insult you. I'm pretty sure whatever it is, it was aimed at me.

 

[#MJforever57]

In this instance I think Michael chose to believe him - but regardless it's still down to the doctor, they are the ones to hold the position of trust and should not put any patient in harms way.

Yes he did. In the bold and to add to that Murray was given Michael a drug that is only use in a hospital setting.

 

[crillon]

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"I'm sure many doctors have great deal of debt, possibly more than that, and still practice medicine in an ethical manner," Dr Green said
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ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Bloss asked how about a doctor whose house is about to go on foreclosure, $600,000 in outstanding debt, behind child support payment?
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ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
Bloss: Is $150,000 a month a large incentive?
Dr. Green: It depends on the situation.
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ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 3h
"Financial rewards do not obligate physicians to compromise their medical judgment," Dr. Green opined.
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 6h Dr. Green: Physician's duty to the patient is paramount, and that's the number one priority and what doctors should always be concerned.

"Physicians are under the obligation, regarding any interest, to put their patients first," Dr. Green expressed.



I think this is a key point--Murray was bound by an ethical code and a Hippocratic Oath that take precedence over ANYTHING else. Money should never compromise the integrity of a physician. Never.

 

[#MJforever57]

" he did not tell anyone , propofol was his darkest secret .....etc " Rowe was his WIFE , she knew . The nanny knew , his doctor in LA knew , he was the one who organized everything . Puntnm can't be happy with her testimony .




The jurors got to see the pictures of keloids , no wonder AEG's lawyers objected . God forbid the jurors think he was taking meds for legitimate reasons , he was FAKING his pain to get drugs , that what AEG claimed they would prove , so far none of the medical professionals testified he faked anything to get drugs.


Randy , Janet and Rebbie Jackson I bet none of them heard about MJ suffering from keloids .

That is what AEG was trying to prove. I agree not one of these doctors said Michael was faking to get drugs.

I am glad the jury got to see the picture.

 

[marebear]

This just shows once again how much Michael was misunderstood in his life. It's also sad that it's probably news to his family all these ailments and issues Michael had to deal with. And he still supported them all. Michael trusted Murray but if he had known about him tape recording him and not watching him when he was suppose to Michael would have been outraged.

 

[#MJforever57]

I'm very glad that Debbie is talking about Michael's skin condition and that he DID NOT bleach his skin.

I don't expect to see many headlines stating same, but still thankful that her voice has now been added to all the others who have testified about Michael's skin problem.

I am glad she brought this out too that Michael didn't bleach his skin he did have a skin problem.

 

[#MJforever57]

This just shows once again how much Michael was misunderstood in his life. It's also sad that it's probably news to his family all these ailments and issues Michael had to deal with. And he still supported them all. Michael trusted Murray but if he had known about him tape recording him and not watching him when he was suppose to Michael would have been outraged.

Money can tear a family apart that what happen to the Jacksons if you don't have love,trust.commucation,understand,caring for one another all of the things that makes a family grow you will drift apart.


A Family That Prayer Together Stay Together.

 

[8701girl]

When this jury get this case this judge will have to remind them what this case is all about.

LOL i think the judge will have to remind us all what this case is bout...

 

[#MJforever57]

I am not surpries what Green has said so far. Money

Will he testmony contuine on Monday?

 

[#MJforever57]

LOL i think the judge will have to remind us all what this case is bout...

You know what that is so true.

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

I haven''t followed the testimony from today because of that infamous "duet" but for what I've read, this Dr. made Murray look more careless and irresponsible.

 

[#MJforever57]

My heart is just breaking now Michael really suffer.

Trying to hold the tears back.

 

[ivy]

Minor updates

- Dr. Van Valin, Dr. Adams and Dr. Ratner deposition videos are being worked on

- Joseph Marcus deposition is out unless either parties agrees on what they want to play or Marcus comes to court explains why he did not answer questions and if required sits for another deposition.

(Note: Apparently Marcus was also asked questions about prescriptions in his name and picking them up. He refused to answer questions about that topic too. judge thinks Marcus mentioning wanting a lawyer and not answering the questions could be an implied invoking the 5th - self incrimination )

- Jacksons ordered to give AEG, Katherine's finances including payroll, household budget and family finances from 2003 to present.

 

[Ashtanga]

- Jacksons ordered to give AEG, Katherine's finances including payroll, household budget and family finances from 2003 to present.

:fear:



Is that good or bad?

 

[twinklEE]

:fear:



Is that good or bad?

I dont think they are too happy about it, cause it exposes the extent of their leeching.

 

[Love.him]

I agree. I had a little experience w/insominia when I was a teenager. All of a sudden I had trouble getting a full night's sleep. I told my parents I was thinking of taking sleeping pills and they strongly advised me against it. My response was "all I want to do is get some sleep", so I do understand it. Sleep is equally important to food and water. If you don't get a certain amount it will effect your health and your judgement.

Bubs this is what i think: When you are desperate for some relief of pain or sleep you will go that extra mile, even though there are risks. Michael like all of us, take medication that have risks, so if he took it before and lived & got relief, he will begin to put the possibility that the drug can be harmful to the back of his mind. There is so much medication that can lead to death & we don't really die if we are monitored, so he took that risk due to desperation. I know that if I had chronic insomnia & I was in a situation where if I did not sleep I could not earn a living, I would do anything possible to get that sleep. I feel there are billions of people out there who in desperation go that extra mile, but we simply do not hear about it.

What do you mean by "duet"?

I haven''t followed the testimony from today because of that infamous "duet" but for what I've read, this Dr. made Murray look more careless and irresponsible.

On another note, wondering why Pearl Jr is arguing/insulting Debbie ....

 

[Tygger]

The plaintiff’s case officially rested when Ortega’s testimony was complete. It was a formality for Panish to address the jurors today. I do not know why he did not want to do that. It would be a great idea if MJJC could do a Q&A with both Panish and Putnam when the trial is complete.

Green is quite laughable although not as hilarious as Briggs. Green suggest the doctor was not compromised by the promise of $150K per month when Green is being compromised to say foolish statements for the fee AEG is paying him. Bloss is doing a great cross because Dr. Green is making it extremely simple. The doctor asserted independence from AEG when he spoke rudely to Ortega? Indeed!

Jamba, while I appreciate your assisting TwinklEE, the point is to NOT accuse a man of rape without any proof. It is a horrific, violent crime and extremely rude to accuse someone of such just for sport. There are people who accuse Michael of the very same although he was acquitted. I am surprised I even have to say such.

The last time MJ toured with his brothers was the Victory tour in 1984. They did 55 shows. At the last show, MJ announced that was the end of the Jacksons touring as a group. And they never did tour again together although the brothers appeared at the MSG 30th anniversary of MJ's careeer in 2001. So that last tour is the only first hand knowledge Randy would have--dating back to 1984.

You are indeed correct! Can someone connect Michael’s behavior in 1984/85 to his behavior pre-TII tour in 2009? It will help in making sense of AEG’s defense.

 

[Bubs]

The objection was to the photo of the vitiligo and not the keloids--at least from the articles I read last night. About the production knowing about Michael, it seems to me that Rowe is saying some of the people knew, but what did they know. They obviously saw Michael looking dazed and thought he was getting some drugs. Did they know why? Rowe did not say. Did they know what he was taking? Rowe did not say. Therefore, how would AEG know what the drugs were. I doubt when Debbie hung out with the dancers she said Michael is taking XYZ and he is an addict.

Didn't Debbie also testified that MJ had docs giving him iv solution for dehydration?
I assume that it required some sort of clinical setting and equimpment, so it is not necessary that if staff saw some equipment that they put 1 + 1 and got propofol infusion.