Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

It is just that, some can't accept that people can like Michael, but not his family.

And I never said that I can not accept that. I said many times that I can understand why people hate them. I just have a different opinion about Katherine, when it comes to insulting her, that is all! And I also think that AEG should pay for what they did. I would love for Katherine to say that she gives her share to his children (I know that is more than unlikely) but then it would focus more on the real issue.

I respect her as a person but I'm not blind to the things she has allowed. I don't hate her but I am very, very disappointed in her and I think Michael would be too.

And that is all I am saying. People have very different opinions about her and that is fine. But at least a little bit respect would be nice I think. Whether we like it or not, whether she earned it or not, MJ trusted and loved his mother.


And now I won't bother you anymore with my opinion, sometimes I really do not get across what I want to say and then there is discussion that really goes in a totally different direction. Sorry if I bothered anyone with my constant writing here
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

@AutumnII so you believe that KJ started this suit, without the consent of the children (I know that it is not needed) without receiving any heat for it? I doubt it. But we really do not know. I guess, the benefit for the children could be to get the people that had a hand in the death of their father... Seriously, i am not some fan of the Jacksons or anything. I just think we should wait and see what happens with this lawsuit, it can not be stopped anyways. And AEG is at fault, they should pay for it, even if that means the Jacksons win.
Why would she take the heat when her curbs are the one running the show? that is the part you don't seem to understand. KJ is just a public face. the real show is run by the curbs.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Background and credit checks are done as a condition of employment by many employers. I would be surprised a company the size of AEG did not perform these types of checks on their potential employees and independent contractors.

according to AEG, Murray - if hired - would be an independent contractor. During a partial deposition of Jackson's human resources expert they asked questions about a survey which showed that independent contractor background checks were minimal.


Ivy, I am interested in what you find was omitted from the summaries done by the news sources and the court transcripts of the opening statements. Maybe one news outlet is more reliable than another.

still don't have them. We will do detailed summaries when we get them.

"If I remember correctly, the plaintiffs did ask for the medical records to be sealed along with the estate. The defendants fought for their emails."

I think you remember incorrectly. Plaintiffs didn't object the estate's request of medical records kept sealed.

They didn't ask or join to estate's motion, they just didn't object it - not the same thing.

True. Jacksons also wanted the trial televised while Estate suggested the courtroom was closed to the public during medical information.

And also, Michael Jackson's children are part of this trial. I have said this before, but if you do not support KJ what is your excuse for not supporting them? And do not give me that BS of them being manipulated.


In terms of "manipulation?" In the U.S., at least, minor children have little or no legal rights in terms of making independent decisions -- about where they will live, with whom, under what conditions, or even what lawsuits may be brought "on their behalf."

amoremotus - Autumnn is right. In this lawsuit the kids are being represented by Katherine and Katherine is the one who is signing everything. The Judge have ruled what the kids want or not want, why they sued AEG and not Murray , their reasoning etc. is irrelevant as Katherine as their guardian making all the decisions for them and signing the dotted line for them.

So I guess some of the fans don't see this as a lawsuit that involves Michael's kids. As the law states the minor kids was brought into this lawsuit by Katherine.

so you believe that KJ started this suit, without the consent of the children (I know that it is not needed) without receiving any heat for it?

This lawsuit was filed in 2010. Do you really think that she asked kids aged 13, 12 and 8 for consent and the kids at such age are capable of understanding the lawsuit, what it means, pro's and cons and make a sound decision?

Also mathematically I hope you understand the benefit of adding younger plaintiffs to the mix. IT increases the possible economic damages.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Everyone please get back on topic and stop personal arguments. No one here has to support AEG, Katherine, Jacksons or the Trial period. So we need to knock off the arguing over that issue and post your opinions about the trial and not about each other. Stop insulting and personally attacking those who don't support your view. Learn to debate the points without attacking one another. Discuss whatever you want without all that. Thanks for your cooperation

PLEASE READ: Basic rules to follow as you discuss the topics in this forum
By posting in this forum you agree to abide by these rules.
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...ollow-as-you-discuss-the-topics-in-this-forum
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

BUt a lot of people here want AEG to win this trial and to me that is just not right!
Co sign all the way
Thanks
 
Latest updates about judge's rulings /orders

May 5th updates

Appeal notice

Case summary was showing this “04/26/2013 Notice of Appeal Filed by Attorney for Plaintiff/Petitioner” but we did not have any information.

The added documents show that this appeal is filed by Katherine Jackson and it’s about judge’s decision to dismiss the complaint against AEG Inc. and Tim Leiweke. In other words Katherine’s lawyers are asking the Appellate court to reverse the judge’s order of dismissing the complaint against AEG Inc and its CEO.

Updates to this appeal can be followed from this link : http://appellatecases.courtinfo.ca.gov/search/case/dockets.cfm?dist=2&doc_id=2044484&doc_no=B248420

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MJ Estate’s motion to seal medical record

Estate’s motion to seal medical records is denied and the medical records are ordered to get unsealed.
Judge’s reasons for denying the motion to seal medical records include: court records being presumed public, public’s right of access to information, both Katherine and AEG stating they will be relying on medical records, how Michael’s medical history is the main issue in this trial, parties right to fair trial and how it would be impractical to close down the courtroom to public when medical information is presented.

The same day of this ruling Estate has filed a second amended notice of motion to seal which would be heard August 16, 2013.

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Redaction decision

Judge decided to redact:
- Gongaware’s personal email
- Kathy Jorrie’s personal phone number
- Nanny Grace’s social security and bank account number
- In TII salary information:
------ Names of the musicians, dancers and stagehands will be redacted
------ Other tour professionals (names and salaries) will not be redacted.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AEG's motion to preclude Katherine's past due discovery

AEG had filed a motion to preclude some last minute submissions and additions done by Katherine. You can read the details here: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...ummary/page3?p=3812341&viewfull=1#post3812341

This is judge’s decisions

1. Late produced documents: AEG’s motion is denied and Katherine can use these late produced documents which consist of family pictures, videos and handwritten notes of Michael.

2. Late identified witnesses

AEG’s motion to exclude Tom Mesereau and Sharon Osbourne is denied however the Judge said AEG can depose them before they take the stand to testify.

Court is also allowing the 14 additional names on Katherine’s witness list.

3. Late identified and improper designation of William Ackerman

Jacksons withdrew their request to cross list Ackerman as a fraud expert.

4. Katherine's improper non-retained experts should be excluded

Judge states witness listings such as “Entire LA coroner office” is improper and ordered to be corrected.

4. Late requests from MJ Estate

January 2013 Katherine's lawyers filed a request from MJ Estate asked Estate to give them documents from AllGood and Lloyds lawsuits. Judge states that AEG has no standing to oppose to late requests from MJ Estate. Judge states both parties can request documents from MJ Estate.

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Request about Lloyd’s depositions

Katherine’s lawyers also served AEG with a request for all deposition transcripts and discovery and responses at Lloyds lawsuit on April 15. AEG is citing protective order on that case and refusing to turn those over to the Jacksons. No ruling posted on the online court system yet.

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Rulings on motions in limine

Most of these motions were filed conditionally under seal so in most instances it’s impossible to tell what the main arguments are.

Judge starts both ruling stating that whether Murray was hired by AEG or not is a question for the jury to decide and therefore experts cannot provide an opinion that Murray was hired by AEG but they can answer hypothetical questions that assume Murray was hired by AEG.

AEG’s motion in limine

Exclude Jacksons expert Dr. Wohlgelernter (opinion 2) - Denied

Judge says Jacksons expert can testify that the equipment request by Murray was unconventional (red flag) for a 50 year old man with no heart disease. Judge says AEG’s expert can argue that the equipment request was for dehydration. Judge points out the jury will decide on what the reason for the equipment was and what AEG known or should have known about the request.

Exclude Jacksons expert Dr. Schnoll – Denied in part, granted in part

Granted in regards to opinions 1, 3, 14 : Jacksons withdrew opinions that “it was common knowledge that MJ had drug problems” and “AEG knew MJ had insomnia”. The opinion of “AEG’s choice of Murray killed MJ” is excluded as it’s argumentative.

“Murray was in a conflict of interest that lead to poor decisions as it concerns treatment for narcotics addiction” is permissible.

Denied as to opinions 2 and 4-13 : AEG’s opposition is based on the fact that Dr. Schnoll’s opinions are based on his assumptions such as “AEG knew MJ had trouble sleeping”. Judge states this is not a reason to exclude these opinions and AEG can attack the foundation of such opinions during testimony.

Exclude Jacksons expert Dr. Shimelman – Denied in part, granted in part

Denied as to opinions 1, 3-7, 9-12: As in the case of Dr. Schnoll these opinions are based on assumptions and again the judge points out AEG can attack the foundation of such opinions during testimony.

Granted in regards to opinions 2 and 8: Jacksons withdrew opinion 2. Judge excluded “ AEG was the only entity that could stop MJ’s addictions” as it’s pure speculation.

Judge also points out that Dr.Shimelman’s testimony is repetitive of Dr. Schnoll’s testimony in many points and expects that Jacksons will tailor their questions to these experts so it won’t be repetitive.

Exclude Jacksons expert Dr. Czeisler – Denied in part, granted in part

Denied as to opinion numbers 1-6 and 8
Granted as to opinion numbers 7 and 9
(No explanation given on judge’s ruling as what these opinions are)

Exclude Jacksons expert Arthur Erk– Denied in part, granted in part

Granted only as to the Tier 2 damages except future tours and royalty bump (which are permitted).

Court agrees with AEG that speculative damages are not allowed and this is why most of the items in Tier 2 such as amusement parks etc are excluded.

Judge says as MJ in the past participated in endorsement deals, clothing lines and movies, doing these in the future are considered as potential loss of income and not as “speculative”. Judge states that AEG can point out MJ’s failed endeavors in the past in their cross examination.

Exclude Jacksons expert Peter Formuzis– Denied in part, granted in part

Denied as to present value calculations, granted as only the opinions about future lost earnings and earnings capacity.

Exclude Jacksons expert Jean Seawright– Denied in part, granted in part

Granted as to the opinions that “AEG hired Murray” or “AEG was careless in their supervision of Murray “as it’s argumentative and a decision for jury. Denied as to human resources practices and standards.

Exclude Jacksons expert David Berman– Denied in part, granted in part

Granted as to the opinions that “AEG hired Murray”, “AEG put the tour happening over and above health of MJ” and also Berman’s opinions about who – AEG personnel or others – are credible or not. All of these are argumentative and is a question for the jury to decide.

Denied as to music artists management and relationships. Judge states Berman’s opinions based on his “common sense” is okay as long as they also rely on his 44 year experience in music industry.

Exclude Jacksons expert Dr. Matheson– Denied in part, granted in part

Granted as to the opinions that “AEG hired Murray” and “conflict of interest caused MJ’s death or was a substantial factor in MJ’s death” as they are argumentative and is a decision for jury.

Denied as to the opinions of ethics and conflict of interest among a physician (Murray), patient(MJ) and a third party(AEG). AEG had tried to exclude Dr. Matheson saying that he was a sports medicine expert and not a tour doctor. Judge finds out that Dr. Matheson’s expertise about doctor, athlete and coach/team owner is relevant and comparable to this situation.


Jackson’s motion in limine

Exclude AEGs expert Eric Briggs – Denied in part, granted in part

Granted as to the income / value of MJ Estate and its effect on damages. Jacksons also agreed that they will not introduce post-death increase in the value of MJ Estate and argue that the increase is an indicator of MJ’s earnings had he lived.

Denied as to MJ’s future earning potential – media/ entertainment rights.

Exclude AEGs expert William Ackerman – Denied in part, granted in part

Granted as to the amount Jacksons receive from MJ Estate including TII film proceeds.

Denied as to MJ’s debts as MJ’s financial condition at the time of his death has relevance to his future earnings potential.

Exclude AEGs expert Arnold Dicke – Denied

Dicke – an actuarial- has said he cannot testify to the exact number of years MJ would have lived however the judge has ruled that he can testify to a range of years, a general opinion of life expectancy and any deviation from standard life expectancy tables.

Exclude inquiry of business dealings and personal life of Jacksons experts Barry Nadell - Denied

Judge states Nadell has many other business and AEG can explore the amount of time – if any- Nadell actually spends on his background investigation business. Furthermore judge states Nadell’s testimony in which he said he didn’t realize his facebook was public implicates credibility and expertise in background investigations.

Exclude AEGs expert Rhoma Young – Denied in part, granted in part

Granted as to the opinion of “Murray was not hired”

Denied as to the opinion that “negotiations for an independent contractor” (more about this below).

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Independent contractor versus Employee

AEG and Jacksons were having disagreements about in regards to independent contractor and employee. They asked Judge for a clarification.

AEG claims as the judge has dismissed the respondeat superior, court found that Murray was an independent contractor and not an employee.

Jackson’s disagree and say that court’s ruling did not establish any facts and Jackson’s can argue to the jury that Murray was AEG’s employee.

Judge responds to clarification as it follows :

"Plaintiffs (Jacksons) asked for clarification that the court found Murray was “as a matter of law” not an employee”. The court finds that based on evidence presented at summary judgment that it is the “law of the case” Murray (assuming he was hired) was an independent contractor and not an employee. This is so because the court summarily adjudicated Plaintiffs (Jacksons) respondeat superior claim/ theory in favor of Defendants (AEG)”

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Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Why would she take the heat when her curbs are the one running the show? that is the part you don't seem to understand. KJ is just a public face. the real show is run by the curbs.

Do you have any documented proof that there are others behind the lawsuit? Otherwise it is just speculation and isn't really productive.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

"If I remember correctly, the plaintiffs did ask for the medical records to be sealed along with the estate. The defendants fought for their emails."

I think you remember incorrectly. Plaintiffs didn't object the estate's request of medical records kept sealed.
They didn't ask or join to estate's motion, they just didn't object it - not the same thing.

I remember correctly.

Originally Posted by ivy
ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 2h
Jacksons' attorney, Brian Panish, told the court emphatically that he believes all docs should be unsealed, except for medical records

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 2h
AEG's attorney, Jessica Bina, argued that some docs provided in discovery that will not be used in the trial should be kept confidential

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 2h
An attorney for Michael Jackson's Estate appeared via phone and said the Estate is only concerned about the medical records being released

according to AEG, Murray - if hired - would be an independent contractor. During a partial deposition of Jackson's human resources expert they asked questions about a survey which showed that independent contractor background checks were minimal.

This seems to be the problem; what were the minimal background checks and was the minimum actually performed by AEG. We shall see.
 
ivy;3818204 said:
Latest updates about judge's rulings /orders

May 5th updates

Appeal notice


Estate’s motion to seal medical records is denied and the medical records are ordered to get unsealed.
Judge’s reasons for denying the motion to seal medical records include: court records being presumed public, public’s right of access to information, both Katherine and AEG stating they will be relying on medical records, how Michael’s medical history is the main issue in this trial, parties right to fair trial and how it would be impractical to close down the courtroom to public when medical information is presented.

The same day of this ruling Estate has filed a second amended notice of motion to seal which would be heard August 16, 2013.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
This is most shameful. Michael never wanted his medical condition or state of health made public. It took him forever to acknowledge his vitiligo despite the speculation of the cause his lightened skin. Michael's lupus was made known thru the release of a court document, not Michael's acknowledgement. I believe that the Estate has always done its best to look out for Michael's wishes and legacy. I know they have made mistakes regarding his unreleased music (they may have even been hustled on that regard), but they have tried to build up Michael's reputation since his death.
I understand the reasoning behind the lawsuit, I really do. A large settlement from AEG is the only way Katherine will have her own funds to do with as she pleases. She can buy the Calabasas house as her own and not something that will eventually go to Michael's children. She can help her children as she sees fit. I knew this would get ugly, but it is uglier than I ever thought it would be. Common sense says Michael is dead, unaware of any of this, and cannot be hurt or embarrassed by it; still it leaves me feeling bad. The way the parameters around this case are shaping up it there is good reason to believe Katherine's team stand a good chance of being favored, how much that will mean financially is hard to fathom. I guess that is why the fight is going to be so ugly.
 
ivy;3818204 said:
MJ Estate’s motion to seal medical record

Estate’s motion to seal medical records is denied and the medical records are ordered to get unsealed.
Judge’s reasons for denying the motion to seal medical records include: court records being presumed public, public’s right of access to information, both Katherine and AEG stating they will be relying on medical records, how Michael’s medical history is the main issue in this trial, parties right to fair trial and how it would be impractical to close down the courtroom to public when medical information is presented.

The same day of this ruling Estate has filed a second amended notice of motion to seal which would be heard August 16, 2013.

:no:

Maybe a stupid question, but does that mean that the files will be accessible as they are, as exhibits, as well as / or the part of the testimonies about those files ?

What happens between now and aug 16 th ?

Thanks
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Estate's second amended notice of motion was filed the same day as court's ruling so it might not matter. I'm not sure.

Currently all the motions and depositions that were conditionally under seal will get unsealed. If any medical record was attached,those will become public as well. If not (meaning if they just talked about the medical info and did not attach the actual medical records) the actual medical records will get public if and when they are entered into evidence during trial.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I want AEG to win just because. For all the crap the Jackson family pulled since Michael died I hope the family owes AEG money when it is all over. And I am not sorry for feeling this way
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

So, just so I get this right. Unsealing the medical records does not mean that all of Michael's records are available to the public. BUt testimonies that were sealed before, because they referred to Michael's medical records are unsealed now?
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

So, just so I get this right. Unsealing the medical records does not mean that all of Michael's records are available to the public. BUt testimonies that were sealed before, because they referred to Michael's medical records are unsealed now?

Yes, as well as the medical file if it was attached to the depo, and those who will be entered as evidence during the trial . See Ivy's post above.


I suppose we can expect anything that was pain related , insomnia related, addiction related, previous use of propofol .... potentially it sounds like a lot. I hope they will keep it as minimal as possible.

it's incredible that the judge allowed that.
 
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Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Co sign all the way
Thanks

Me personally not that I want AEG to win, but I think they will win because accusations of KJ is not valid. AEG did not hire Murray. Michael wanted him to be his doctor. AEG was a payor only. AEG does not have authority to supervise doctor. AEG is NOT a medical board.
There was no employer-employee relationship. Murray was not even paid by the time he killed MJ.
I hate AEG and have personal opinion based on objective facts that they intentionally killed MJ using Murray. However from this wrongful death lawsuit perspective only, AEG's arguments are legit.
 
shelly_webster;3818174 said:
In all honesty, I believe KJ truly loves her son but she is an old woman and can be manipulated and probably always was.

But what about what she allowed to happen to Michael when she was a young woman? KJ’s behavior as an old woman is stunningly consistent with her behavior when she was a young mom. I can't say she didn't love Michael but she gives the appearance she may love money more.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

"And that is all I am saying. People have very different opinions about her and that is fine. But at least a little bit respect would be nice I think. Whether we like it or not, whether she earned it or not, MJ trusted and loved his mother.

And now I won't bother you anymore with my opinion, sometimes I really do not get across what I want to say and then there is discussion that really goes in a totally different direction. Sorry if I bothered anyone with my constant writing here".

@ Amoremotus: Please do not feel you are bothering me. You are a member of this forum and you have the right to express your opinions the same as the rest of us. I want to say however that I give Katherine NOTHING because of the fact Michael "trusted and loved her". In fact the knowledge he did love her so much and always gave her his best is what really makes me angry at her lack of respect for HIM!
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Me personally not that I want AEG to win, but I think they will win because accusations of KJ is not valid. AEG did not hire Murray. Michael wanted him to be his doctor. AEG was a payor only. AEG does not have authority to supervise doctor. AEG is NOT a medical board.
There was no employer-employee relationship. Murray was not even paid by the time he killed MJ.
I hate AEG and have personal opinion based on objective facts that they intentionally killed MJ using Murray. However from this wrongful death lawsuit perspective only, AEG's arguments are legit.

Well Scorpion.
I want to see KJ win because I believe AEG killed her son , But that is only personal opinion too of course . I hope that from this trial, we find truth .Whatever it is.
You probably should have quoted the original poster by the way :scratch:.
 
Victory22;3818319 said:
But what about what she allowed to happen to Michael when she was a young woman? KJ’s behavior as an old woman is stunningly consistent with her behavior when she was a young mom. I can't say she didn't love Michael but she gives the appearance she may love money more.

I am not sure but I remember reading in Margareth's book that there were lots of machism from the Jacksons and they live their wife to be quiet. I think she was like with Joe.
 
Originally Posted by ivy
MJ Estate’s motion to seal medical record

Estate’s motion to seal medical records is denied and the medical records are ordered to get unsealed.
Judge’s reasons for denying the motion to seal medical records include: court records being presumed public, public’s right of access to information, both Katherine and AEG stating they will be relying on medical records, how Michael’s medical history is the main issue in this trial, parties right to fair trial and how it would be impractical to close down the courtroom to public when medical information is presented.

The same day of this ruling Estate has filed a second amended notice of motion to seal which would be heard August 16, 2013.


How is it the case that Michael's medical history is the main issue in this trial? I thought it was about negligent hiring and supervision of CM? isn't his medical history a seconday issue?? Isn't the main focus on whether AEG properly vetted CM and supervised him? Was AEG supposed to research MJ's medical records or CM's fitness to be a tour doc? Whether MJ had medical issues in the past does not mean any doctor would have killed him, does it? I am not seeing the logic or reasoning of this judge.

What does she mean by saying that court records are presumed public? Obviously, some court records are sealed--or is she saying all court records are always unsealed--that sounds totally wrong. What about the body search photos of MJ? They were sealed, right?

Help!
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

True. Jacksons also wanted the trial televised while Estate suggested the courtroom was closed to the public during medical information.

This lawsuit was filed in 2010. Do you really think that she asked kids aged 13, 12 and 8 for consent and the kids at such age are capable of understanding the lawsuit, what it means, pro's and cons and make a sound decision?

Also mathematically I hope you understand the benefit of adding younger plaintiffs to the mix. IT increases the possible economic damages.

The trial would have been televised if the defendants did not argue against it. Some fans were against it only because the plaintiffs fought for it without realizing the repercussion they are experiencing now with getting trial information.

The children could remove themselves from the lawsuit through their own lawyer but, they did not. It could be the children feel they can help their father now when they may have felt helpless when he passed.

Adding the children to the trial only increases the total possible damages not the possible damages that may be awarded to Michael's mother if the plaintiffs are successful.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

We do not KNOW if "Prince supports this lawsuit." Minor children do not have options about decisions made by a parent or guardian regarding lawsuits "on their behalf."

"Support" of Katherine has eroded over the years, based on HER decisions regarding Michael's children.

Non-support of Katherine and this lawsuit does not automatically mean support of AEG. Many of us here wish this lawsuit were not happening, at ALL, due to the negative things already said about Michael. The children do NOT need the money. Katherine does not need the money. Who does? "Cubs" do. . . .that is obvious?

The lies of the Jackson family are ALREADY obvious. They cannot, on the one hand, say in a signed letter that Michael had no "addiction issues," and then assert in the lawsuit that he DID, and AEG should have known about it. Either there were "interventions," or there were not. They would have to prove that there were, and it's doubtful that they can do that. I think their past public statements will come back to haunt them . . .

(edit) I think that Michael's leaving his family out of his will (except for his mother and children) was an incredibly eloquent statement about what he thought about them, and if he had any obligations to support them (NOT). Katherine has plenty of money, for the rest of her life -- but not enough to support the entire Jackson family. The children are well taken-care-of. When Katherine dies, the siblings will be left high-and-dry financially, and will have to make their own ways. Well, oops?

Agree that MJ's will shows he did not want to support his sibs or his dad. It's crystal clear, and could not be any clearer. The fact is that this has not gone down well with the family members omitted, so they have launched various legal and nonlegal actions, such as contesting the validity of the will, Joe asking for stipend from the Estate, contesting the named executors of the will, not supporting Estate projects meant to generate income to pay off debts and enhance MJ's legacy.

Someone asked for proof that the sibs were behind this lawsuit, what about proof that they AREN'T?? The sibs even share some of the same lawyers as are in the lawsuit, and they have spoken favorably of it, and negatively of the Estate and its projects, so it's not a stretch to say they will benefit or what their position is, really, is it?
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

@jamba

The issue is not only whether AEG hired Murray or not but also whether they knew and should have known there could be any problems.

For example if a company hires a guy with history of violence for a delivery job, you can say that the company "should have known" this new employee had a history of anger management and posed a danger for the customers - such as one moment he can lose it and attack the customers.

In this instance "should have known" could only be argued if Michael had a known history with drugs and Murray's previous actions and debts and so on would shown that he posed a risk - in simplied terms as an "addict" Michael would ask for drugs and as a person in debt and thinking about the payday Murray would provide it to Michael. Jacksons have stated this as " a drug pusher to an addicted man".

Now Michael's medical history becomes relevant for both plaintiffs and defense to demonstrate : Michael's "addiction" as well as how known or hidden this addiction was.

"court records are presumed public" is a general statement. In USA there are a lot of rights which includes access to the court documents as well as freedom of information act. So "court records are presumed public" , in other words 99% of the time the documents will be public. For sealing there must be a really good reason. In this case the judge says there are several other reasons - that I listed in the summary- that triumphs Estate's right of privacy in regards to Michael's medical records.

In other words the judge acknowledges that Michael's medical records are confidential and privileged but public's right to information, parties right to a fair trial and so on triumphs the privacy.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I absolutely agree with you.
I was thinking of Joan Crawford and her legacy. She will be always remembered as brilliant actress, but her adopted daughter wrote a book about her calling her "mommy dearest" among other things, which some of Joan's closest friends and family members denied. Those denials from her friends and family were not heard as the picture of Joan as "mommy dearest" is more juicy and it came from her daughter, and that picture of her will carries on with her legacy to the future.

Great ^^ I am so glad you gave this reference to Joan & her daughter, because just like with the Jacksons, the adopted daughter was also not in the will. Joan felt she provided them with a good life & opportunities when she was alive. What did the daughter, left out of the will do--write a tell all juicy book where she trashed Joan for money. What did the Jacksons do--take someone to court to get money & trash Michael in the process.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

The trial would have been televised if the defendants did not argue against it.

pure speculation. The judge have twice denied the request for broadcast without even asking what the parties thought about it. Judge's following order after asking parties for their opinions and oral arguments was same as her initial orders. Judge still did not give any reasoning behind her decision and simply said the decision was left to the court / her and she will not be allowing broadcast.

Furthermore minor kids as plaintiffs and witnesses made it highly unlikely that the trial will be televised as well as the confidential medical records.

The children could remove themselves from the lawsuit through their own lawyer but, they did not.

This is wrong because children do not have their own lawyer. Margaret Lodise is their guardian ad litem in regards to Estate probate matters (which also includes custody) only. She's not a general lawyer protecting kids general interest.

In this lawsuit Katherine is the guardian ad litem for the kids and the same set of lawyers represent both Katherine and the kids.

Adding the children to the trial only increases the total possible damages not the possible damages that may be awarded to Michael's mother if the plaintiffs are successful.

This will depend on the final verdict form. AEG is actually asking for jury to determine possible damages - if any - for each of the plaintiffs separately. Jacksons are opposing this and saying it's none of AEG's business how the damages are divided.

So Jacksons version allows for a non equal or at best a 4 way equal divide, where as AEG's version can mean no damages awarded to Katherine while damages awarded to kids.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Are these all his medical records or only the ones relevant to the case?

Like, do we need to hear about plastic surgery and stuff or is it just stuff relevant to the issue of drugs or propofol?
 
"MJ Estate’s motion to seal medical record

Estate’s motion to seal medical records is denied and the medical records are ordered to get unsealed.
Judge’s reasons for denying the motion to seal medical records include: court records being presumed public, public’s right of access to information, both Katherine and AEG stating they will be relying on medical records, how Michael’s medical history is the main issue in this trial, parties right to fair trial and how it would be impractical to close down the courtroom to public when medical information is presented.

The same day of this ruling Estate has filed a second amended notice of motion to seal which would be heard August 16, 2013."

Why the second motion will be heard on Aug. 16. how is it going to help the estate?
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Why the second motion will be heard on Aug. 16. how is it going to help the estate?

as I said "Estate's second amended notice of motion was filed the same day as court's ruling so it might not matter. I'm not sure. "

Regardless I personally think it won't help Estate much. Perhaps they can seal some stuff that weren't used on trial/motions, but anything that is mentioned during trial and entered into evidence will become public.

btw the hearing date had been long set as August 16. I'm thinking judge made a decision before the trial started and did not wait for it.

Are these all his medical records or only the ones relevant to the case?

Like, do we need to hear about plastic surgery and stuff or is it just stuff relevant to the issue of drugs or propofol?

They have his medical records dating back to 1984. Estate had argued that some of them - such as his dental or acne treatments and so on - were irrelevant. AEG have said they intended to show Michael used propofol in such minor procedures.

As of now it is impossible to say what will become public but as I said anything that is mentioned and entered into evidence during trial will become public.




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Edited to add: This is how the process works

Parties send subpoena's to the doctors and get medical records from them. Later they depose the doctors talking about the documents. Sometimes these information - partial depositions or relevant documents - are added to the motions they file with the court. Depending on who is called as witness the depositions, documents, information can be entered into evidence.

Until now the depositions and motions have been under conditional seal. As those will be unsealed whatever mentioned in those depositions / motions will become public. More stuff will become public as the trial happens.

At the end there might be some stuff that the parties collected through discovery but not used during motions and trial. Those can still remain private.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Sorry but I have another question & I don't know where to post it, so here it goes: Who has custody of Michael's remains?

My question is because I read an article on which it says the Jacksons might want to buy Neverland if they win the case. I know the estate & Colony own Neverland with the estate owing the biggest chunck. Would the estate & Colony sell it to the Jacksons?
 
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