Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[ivy]

Another link to the video shown in court

http://vimeo.com/70672851

 

[Petrarose]

I don't understand how Katherine said this: "A lot of the things that have been said are not the truth," Katherine Jackson said. "He's not here to speak for himself"

Isn't it here side presenting its case. Does she mean what her side presented is not true, or does she mean the things in the e-mail from the AEG side is not true. Let me continue to read the tweets to see if I find any clarity.

OK finished reading the tweets.

I hope no one is surprised that Katherine cried. It is true that people her age get tired in the afternoon. However, this is a woman who basically went to court every day, but the moment she has to be on the stand she gets too tired. Then she slept for only 3 hours the night before, so how come Panish did not broadcast how she slept the other nights. Maybe the idea that she will be questioned kept her up all night, but then who caused her to be in this position--only herself and her children. I guess the judge can't do anything but let her go home early and sleep, but this is a tough woman who makes it to court all the time.

Good to see she is playing the same game Randy played, i.e., I don't recall.

She visited Michael and sat on his bed and yet she had to hear about TII from Grace? Why didn't Michael tell her he was doing TII since she was so close to him? She is right about one thing and that is Michael gave her everything. I wonder how Janet and the other children feel when they hear that.

 

[bouee]

bouee

a little history (sorry if I bore you)

as you know respondeat superior hold employers responsible for the actions of employees during the course of work but there were nothing that hold them responsible for the actions of the independent contractors. Independent contractors are by definition have been seen as working independently with no or minimal supervision and guidance.

then there was some lawsuits and this peculiar risk doctrine was established. It is all based on the idea that if the independent contractor is doing some inherently dangerous work , the person that hired them could be held responsible if the hiring party doesn't require or provide special precautions.

let me try a (not perfect) example: I have a park that the public comes. I hire landscape people to cut the tree branches. now "branch is cut, it falls down, if it falls down on a person it can hurt them" is a foreseeable risk on my part, it's common sense, it's basic physics, it doesn't require any specific knowledge. So the law say I'll either need to say to the contractor "make sure you secure the area and do not let the public in" or better I need to do make sure that the area is secure and no public is in the park so that no one gets hurt.

It needs to be a special / peculiar and recognizable risk associated with the job.

It doesn't cover any and all actions of the independent contractor such as causal negligence or the unforeseeable risks.

For example the landscape company when driving into the park might drive to close to a car and damage it but careless driving is a regular negligence which means the hiring company would not be responsible. Similarly for example the landscape company might cut the tree branches wrong and cause the whole tree to fall down on a nearby house. If the hiring company doesn't have the knowledge or foresee that a mistake can bring down the trees, they might not be seen as liable.

ps: I saw you asking it : it's guilty / not guilty in a criminal trial and it's liable / not liable in a civil trial.

Thanks and no, it's not boring.

Is there a list of the types of indep contractors that could present a peculiar risk, or is it decided on a case by case basis ?

I would think a doctor is not usually a peculiar risk, but in this situation, with Michael's health declining under his care, it became one, so there would be a need for AEG to aim at negligence on Murray's part- not only Michael. Besides, Murray was convicted for this very same reason.

That's why a defense denying or minimising Murray's role doesn't make sense to me. It goes against common sense. The jurors are going to ask themselves , like many of us did here, why Michael himself didn't fire Murray when he was in such a state under his care. We followed Murray's trial, so we know what a liar Murray is, and probably lied to Michael and AEG. Why AEG doesn't seem to go in this direction and seem to only blame Michael is beyond me, and this kind of strategy, if they really keep doing it, could backfire.

Besides, if the jury thinks like me that there was info to doubt Murray, it will only make it worse for AEG & Phillips. But saying that, I don't see a way out for AEG. It definitely looks like a desperate defense to me, so far.

I'm not surprised by Murray "maybe" testifying. I think it could be a reason for AEG not to blame him too much. They could be the ones actually helping Murray, that's what it looks like to me at this point. I don't know which side wants him. First it was the Jacksons, then AEG wanted to use his police interview but did not call him when the judge didn't allow the police interview to be used.
If he does testify, he's going to take the 5th on a lot of questions, but can he do that on all questions ? I guess he could testify about his contract, about the meetings, about what Randy Phillips said to him after the june 20th meeting (as per his "documentary") , if RP came to the Carolwood and talked to him when Michael was not there, about what Michael told him about AEG or about the Jacksons. Could he take the 5th on those questions ? He would be testifying mostly about what others said or did.
Now, would he be telling the truth ? And deciding to testify at this point in the trial after his lawyer has been sitting in court....


So Katherine did not talk about the lawsuit with the kids before filing it ? Ouch. Blanket was too young, but I sincerely hope Paris and Prince agreed to it and were not forced into it. They would have been witnesses anyway, whether they were defendants or not.

So Putnam is also going for extorsion apprently, judging from his cross. We'll see when we have the whole picture and the other Jacksons testify, but I thought his questions were sometimes a little too much. He's not sticking to the claim. We'll see when we have the whole picture.

Other than that, Katherine's testimony is touching. I have my doubts about her financial motives for this lawsuit and other things she did, but I have no doubt she loves Michael and is grieving as a mother who has lost her son.

 

[Bubs]

"We're done for the day in Katherine Jackson vs AEG Live. Mrs. Jackson testified for about 10 mins before judge recessing for the weekend."

Hopefully she rests a lot during the weekend so she can manage more than 10 min defences questioning.
---------
"He didn't talk much about his insomnia, Mrs. Jackson said. He couldn't sleep at all at night when he was at home."

What I don't understand that she knew he had bad case of insomnia for years, why as a mother did she not think that she could seek professional help for Michael. She blames AEG for not getting help for MJ what he needed, but she didn't do anything either.
---------------
"Mrs. Jackson: At time time to me Michael looked ok. Later, I saw he was thin, he was dressed in jacket and all, I didn't notice he was thin."

Maybe that was the reason that AEG didn't noticed either? After enough alarm was raised, then the talk started getting nutrionist etc on board.
-------------
"Panish: Did he give you gifts?
Mrs Jackson: All the time. He gave me everything, the necessities of life, gifts, cars, jewelry, mobile homes
Panish: Did he give you money?
Mrs. Jackson: Yes, cash. Michael never wrote checks"

I find it funny that Havenhurst was in the brink of foreclosure, she didn't use that money to pay bills or mortage, and if she didn't have money that time, why didn't she sell some of her cars or jewelry?
-----------

She visited Michael and sat on his bed and yet she had to hear about TII from Grace? Why didn't Michael tell her he was doing TII since she was so close to him? She is right about one thing and that is Michael gave her everything. I wonder how Janet and the other children feel when they hear that.

That is odd and it goes against what she said about her and MJ being close.
Jurors have some thinking to do whether to think she is believable or not after that.
----------
She said he was joking when he said he didn't want to do the Moonwalk at age 50. "He used to think that 50 was really old."

Damage control, after her deposition was made public and what she said went against calculations of future earnings.
By the time MJ was 50, he had worked for more than 40 years, so I can understand MJ wanted less to do when he got older have worked hard all of his life.
---------------------
Mrs. Jackson said she didn't think her son could do 50 shows every other night as was planned. She called Randy Phillips and Dr. Tohme.

I want to hear more about that.
Btw, I want to hear if she called to Michael too, after all he was the one she thought schedule was too much.
----------------
Mrs. Jackson said Paris was looking for a special heart. She found a broken heart, hung one part in Michael's neck and she put on the other.


---------------
"I heard stories and I heard from my grandson he was being pressured, that he was asking for his father, that Joe would know what to do."
Mrs. Jackson: My son was sick and Kenny Ortega said nobody gave him a cup of tea. Nobody said call the doctor, let's see what's wrong w/ him
Mrs. Jackson said it was hard for her to be sitting here in the courtroom and listening people "call my son a freak, saying he is lazy."
"This week I had to listen how broke his was, he didn't take a dime home," Mrs. Jackson said
"Why he didn't take a dime home? Because he was giving it to charity."
Mrs. Jackson: It hurts to seat here in court and hear how sick my son was and no one was trying to help him.
Putnam then asked: But the witnesses called were by your attorney, right? Mrs. Jackson responded yes.

Ouch! KJ is crying and moaning about what witnesses had said about her son, then comes Putnam and says it was her side decision to call those people to talk about the way they talked.
-------------
Putnam asked about Dr. Murray: "My son needed another doctor, a real doctor," Mrs. Jackson said.
Mrs. Jackson: The doctor was for his children but I didn't know who he was. Later I heard it was Dr. Murray.

Has she not read the contract in which it said CM was to provide services to MJ, not his kids?
Certainly over 4 gallons of propfol wasn't for kids.

 

[MIST]

"My son was being pressured," she added. "He asked for his father.

"I heard stories and I heard from my grandson he was being pressured, that he was asking for his father, that Joe would know what to do."

Michael could talk to someone in India via skype but wasn´t able to call his father?
If he didn´t have the number he knew he could reach him through Katherine.

Witnesses said he was talking to God at rehearsals, maybe Michael talked about the heavenly father.

 

[AliCat]

"Katherine said that Paris kept saying, "Daddy I want to go with you, I can't live without you."

http://www.eonline.com/news/440823/...m_medium=rssfeeds&utm_campaign=rss_topstories

This is just so misleading about Paris Jackson. AEG Live should show pictures of Paris Jackson's arm, all the cutting marks, that has nothing to do with her father dying, it's more about how poorly she has been treated in Katherine Jackson's household. When Paris Jackson couldn't go to the Marilyn Manson Concert, yet her brother, Prince Jackson, went to a Rolling Stones Concert, that's where the fight ensued within Katherine Jackson's household that sent Paris Jackson over the edge, where she tried committing suicide. Katherine Jackson has been trying to mislead the Jury in the lawsuit. She is playing the sympathy card, just because her child, since age 5 year's has been supporting Katherine Jackson and is no longer here to continue that, will now be replaced by AEG Live. That and Katherine's husband and her cubs were not named in the Will of child who has been working since he was 5 year's old supporting his mother!

 

[bouee]

simple

allowed(motion denied)- Motion 4 - Michael's siblings have or had financial problems

- Gifts from Michael Jackson to his siblings are relevant to the issue of Jackson's damages and for the purposes of cross examination/impeachment of siblings.
- However presentation of the siblings entire finances is irrelevant and presents undue consumption of time.

combined with

allowed (motion denied)- Motion 8 - KJ did not file a suit against Murray

- AEG is precluded from pointing out that Murray is not a defendant in the lawsuit (see reason cited at motion 7 above)
- However AEG is allowed to present a comparative fault defense and verdict form.
- AEG is permitted to question Katherine Jackson as to her motive (financial) for filing the lawsuit.

because AEG might try to say the siblings were getting gifts / monetary support from Michael hence they are involved in this lawsuit and this lawsuit is financial motivated

What does the bolded mean ? What's a comparative defense and verdict form ?

Katherine lying about that doesn't make sense. It will be easy to call Randy to the stand and ask him about his tweets. They probably already asked him in his depo, so what's the point ?

They are sueing partly because AEG were, according to them, Murray's employer, and at that time they had info (at least from Karen and the kids) that Michael was visibly not well in june, and AEG kept pushing Michael & maybe pressuring Murray. That's different from what Murray was convicted of.

So there was no point in lying about that, it should have been easy to answer Putnam's question about filing before Murray's trial even began.

 

[LastTear]

Anthony McCartney ?@mccartneyAP 36m
She added, "To listen to how sick my son was and nobody was trying to help him

This isn't true, Kenny saw he was sick and he tried to alert AEG who eventually took some action, Michael was insistent that he was fine. Katherine saw Michael and didn't pick up on his 'illness' - how could she expect AEG bosses to do so, when they didn't see with their own eyes what Kenny saw. Katherine was clearly not concerned and was happy with his health or she would have called the execs herself, just as she did regarding the schedule.

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 12m
"My son was on prescription drugs, that doesn't make it true about other drugs they said he was on," Mrs. Jackson said

What other drugs did they say he was on?

 

[bouee]

What other drugs did they say he was on?

I thought she was talking about the demerol defense : Dr Early, AEG's expert, who said Michael was addicted to demerol in 2009 + mentionning Klein. I could be wrong, but that's what i thought when I read that.
Her exeprt- I can't remeber who it was, said Michael was not addicted to anything in 2009, before Murray came into the picture.

 

[LastTear]

^^^^ It's still a prescription drug though, prescribed or given by a doctor.

 

[gerryevans]

I thought Katherine’s testimony was very heartfelt and I am looking forward to her continued testimony on Monday. I learned more about Michael and the bond he shared with his children and mother.

I totally agree about Katherine. She makes an effective and emotional impression, and I say that even knowing she was on the stand, knowing that's exactly what she needed to do. She loved her son deeply, and the pain of his loss will be with her forever. I think many fans were already aware of the bond she shared with MJ. That's why we've been so surprised by some of her actions since his death.

Gerryevans, the jury will determine the damages. They may most likely find a “middle ground” between the figures projected by AEG and the expert. Maybe they will choose one or the other. I do not know. It is not me using AEG’s figures to give merit to the expert; it is the expert using AEG’s projections as per their emails and documents to arrive at his projections.

Passy001, the expert said Michael could do 260 shows and AEG said Michael could do 186. Both projections equate to two shows per week. Those are the facts, not my opinion. Again, they are projections. No one knows if Michael would agree to doing two shows a week for an extended period of time or not. We cannot look to past, public comments by Michael (or private) to definitively say he would or would not. If you prefer to use testimony and evidence, his daughter and son said their father told them he was doing a world wide tour and AEG's emails show they were planning it.

Actually, I think we do know. MJ had not done that many shows during his entire solo career. To suggest he would do that many into his senior years is ludicrous IMO.

But that's just my opinion, so Tygger, I am going to ask you point blank, knowing what you do know about MJ, do you believe Michael would have done 260 shows or even 186 at this stage in his life?

I'm genuinely curious to know as you say this is only what the expert and AEG are saying, but when you cite the numbers, it comes off as though you believe he would do it. So I don't know how you actually feel about the projections. And again, I am curious about your opinion about the numbers as being realistic for MJ to actually perform that many concert dates.

ETA: I am not asking could he have, but WOULD he have.

 

[passy001]

Passy001, the expert said Michael could do 260 shows and AEG said Michael could do 186. Both projections equate to two shows per week. Those are the facts, not my opinion. Again, they are projections.

But aren't you supporting the expert view? and since when are projections facts? AEG made projections based on a number of assumptions. and it turned out MJ was already complaining about 50 shows. when you factor in all of that together it's not unreasonable to find the expert estimations completely off the mark. but again this is a paid expert. he's been paid exactly to do just that:i.e exaggerate estimations to increase the damage amount if the jury ever finds AEG liable.

No one knows if Michael would agree to doing two shows a week for an extended period of time or not. We cannot look to past, public comments by Michael (or private) to definitively say he would or would not. If you prefer to use testimony and evidence, his daughter and son said their father told them he was doing a world wide tour and AEG's emails show they were planning it.

now you are contradicting yourself because you believe that MJ would have done 260 shows as per the plaintiff expert if MJ was still alive ,which is far more than all his concert shows combined of his solo career to date. and you did so without taking into consideration the new realities that MJ faced as as well as his new career interests. to complicate matters, MJ had a history of renegading on commitments. for instance he got sued in 2000 by his long time concert promoter Marcel Avram for not doing the millennium concert he had previously agreed to. the civil trial was a major PR disaster for MJ. It showed MJ as an unreliable business partner.

he also got sued by the prince of Bahrain for backing off on a signed contract to release albums and so on. AEG ended up paying MJ the advances to settle that case. you can't be oblivious to these serious facts. I expect AEG to refute the jacksons expert exactly with these type of evidence. and there is no way a competent jury would be oblivious to such facts either.

 

[ivy]

Is there a list of the types of indep contractors that could present a peculiar risk, or is it decided on a case by case basis ?

case by case

I would think a doctor is not usually a peculiar risk

there are arguments and examples that doctors is not considered a high risk but it can go either way.

That's why a defense denying or minimising Murray's role doesn't make sense to me. It goes against common sense.

Why AEG doesn't seem to go in this direction and seem to only blame Michael is beyond me

but it goes well in the legal sense. in my opinion it's not really that hard to realize the more fault they put on Michael, the less fault it would be on AEG and they wouldn't want to put any fault on Murray who the jury might think AEG is responsible for.

think like this

Assuming Murray / AEG on the same line on the verdict form and Michael Jackson

if the jury thinks Michael died 100% because of Murray, AEG will be held responsible for all damages. So the more they can try to transfer the responsibility to Michael the less responsibility.

It's simple math

What other drugs did they say he was on?

I thought she was talking about the demerol defense

^^^^ It's still a prescription drug though, prescribed or given by a doctor.

I feel like she might be talking about the addict stories in media. Her lawyers already claim Demerol dependency at some times in his life.

-----------------

As for Katherine, I'm worried Monday will be hard for her. She seems defensive and even act like someone has sued her. Putnam really did not ask her any hard questions.

 

[bouee]

case by case



there are arguments and examples that doctors is not considered a high risk but it can go either way.



but it goes well in the legal sense. in my opinion it's not really that hard to realize the more fault they put on Michael, the less fault it would be on AEG and they wouldn't want to put any fault on Murray who the jury might think AEG is responsible for.

think like this

Assuming Murray / AEG on the same line on the verdict form and Michael Jackson

if the jury thinks Michael died 100% because of Murray, AEG will be held responsible for all damages. So the more they can try to transfer the responsibility to Michael the less responsibility.

It's simple math

Yes simple on paper, I understand the logic. What I meant is that it's not credible, especially after what has been said so far.

And what does that mean , from the post that I quoted above ?

"However AEG is allowed to present a comparative fault defense and verdict form. "

Who will be deciding about the verdict form ? If it's the judge , the she already ruled AEG could not be responsible for Murray's medical actions, so I know we can't tell right now, but there's a chance that she will not allow Murray & AEG on the same line in the verdict form.
By excluding Murray from their verdict form, is AEG preventing her from doing it ? They are at least giving an indication that they don't want his name on the verdict form, yet they want everybody's repsonsability evaluated. Everybody but Murray.
It's not logical and not credible, but that's my opinion.

 

[ivy]

And what does that mean , from the post that I quoted above ?

"However AEG is allowed to present a comparative fault defense and verdict form. "

Who will be deciding about the verdict form ? If it's the judge , the she already ruled AEG could not be responsible for Murray's medical actions, so I know we can't tell right now, but there's a chance that she will not allow Murray & AEG on the same line in the verdict form.
By excluding Murray from their verdict form, is AEG preventing her from doing it ? They are at least giving an indication that they don't want his name on the verdict form, yet they want everybody's repsonsability evaluated. Everybody but Murray.
It's not logical and not credible, but that's my opinion.

You need to look to stuff in the order they happened

AEG wanted to say Katherine did not sue Murray and / or Murray wasn't a defendant. Judge said no, you can't say that, you can only ask Katherine about her motives for filing a case against AEG but you can also come up with a verdict form which lists Murray among the responsible parties and let jury determine who has how much responsibility in Michael's death.

The rest is strategy. Yes the judge will finalize the verdict forms based on arguments from both sides. Obviously Jacksons would want to argue Murray's fault is AEG's fault as AEG hired Murray (based on peculiar risk and whatever theories). AEG came up with a verdict form that did not list Murray in the percentages section (more about this below). Why? Simple strategy IMO. Not only that's against Jacksons claims , they might also be hoping that the judge finds a middle ground and lists everyone separately.

again for some reason people look to this lawsuit (and others) as lawsuits are based on fairness. No they aren't. It's all about what you can prove, what you can disprove and what is a better strategy.

now a point: I don't think AEG omitted Murray. Now look to this part


10. Did Conrad Murray's unfitness or incompetence harm Michael Jackson?

Yes / No

If you answered no stop, if you answered yes go on to question 11

11. Was any of the defendants negligence in hiring Conrad Murray a substantial factor in causing plaintiffs harm?

AEG Live Yes/No
AEG Live Productions Yes / No
Gongaware Yes/No
Phillips Yes/No

If you answered no stop, if you answered yes go on to question 12

12. Was Katherine Jackson dependent on Michael Jackson for the necessities of her life?

Yes / No

If you answered no, you must not award any damages for losses suffered by Katherine Jackson. you may still award damages to the remaining plaintiffs. If you said yes go on to question 13.

13. What do you find to be the total amount of damages , if any, suffered by plaintiffs?

If you answered $0 stop, otherwise go to question 14.

If you reached to this section you have determined one or more of the defendants is responsible for Michael Jackson's death. In this section you will determine whether any other persons are responsible for Michael Jackson's death and to what extent. Do not reduce the amount of damages you awarded in question 13 to account for any percentage of fault you award to other parties. Any needed reductions will be done by the court

14. Was Michael Jackson's negligence or wrongful conduct a substantial factor in causing his death?

Yes / No

Please go on question 15.

15. Was Katherine Jackson's negligence or wrongful conduct a substantial factor in causing Michael Jackson's death?

Yes / No

Please go on question 16.

16. Please identify the percentage of the total negligence and fault for Michael Jackson's death was due to conduct of Michael Jackson, Katherine Jackson and each defendant you answered yes in question 11. The percentages must add to 100%.

Michael Jackson ____%
Katherine Jackson____%
AEG Live ________%
AEG Live Productions____%
Gongaware _______%
Phillips _________%

Now if you follow the verdict form, first it asks if murray was negligent, and the jurors need to say yes. So they are putting the blame on Murray there. They ask about negligent hiring, and if the jurors answer yes they state basically AEG was responsible for Murray's actions as they hired him. The last question is about dividing Murray's responsibility among parties. Such as someone might believe Murray gave Michael propofol negligently but it's only because Michael asked him to, where as someone else might believe Murray was so reckless because Phillips said to him get Michael to rehearsals.

The only difference here is that Jacksons want it to directly mean Murray's fault is AEG's fault where as AEG has a lot more step by step approach.

 

[Aquarius]

No, Katherine said Michael was not a freak. She didn't like the things people are saying about Michael. I have to say that even though I don't like this trial just reading what she was saying about Michael, I can't help but get emotional. I do believe she loved Michael. She talks about him in the present tense. Never "was" but Michael "is" I noticed.

She confuses me. As I said before I don't know if she's truthful or not. In her testimony about Michael's death she said it was the worst it could happen to a person, she didn't say it was the worst that happened to me. Maybe I'm wrong but probably in her view there are worst thing that could happen to her.

 

[LastTear]

I feel like she might be talking about the addict stories in media. Her lawyers already claim Demerol dependency at some times in his life.

-----------------

As for Katherine, I'm worried Monday will be hard for her. She seems defensive and even act like someone has sued her. Putnam really did not ask her any hard questions.

Re the drugs, Katherine makes it sound like others have been saying Michael was addicted to non-prescroption medication. I would be interested reading the whole quote - will we be able to get KJ's transcripts?

Yes I also feel she was defensive and clearly she didn't want to speak to the man! The more defensive she is the tougher Putman will have to be.

 

[AliCat]

"He didn't talk much about his insomnia, Mrs. Jackson said. He couldn't sleep at all at night when he was at home."

What I have gotten out of both trials is that when Michael Jackson was touring is when he had the hardest time going to sleep. Dr. Allan Metzger prescribed a sleep medication in 2003 and 2008 for Michael.

2003 was when the Bashir documentary turned Michael's life upside down, which resulted in a Criminal Trial. 2008 was when "Neverland" was headed towards a Public Auction.

Some of the symptoms of insomnia are Major depression, Anxiety, Fatigue, Mental illness.

I can see why Michael didn't like touring, these symptoms would be hard on a person, having to deal with major depression, anxiety, fatigue, mental illness.

Because the autopsy reveals how strong Michael's organs are at time of death, Dr. Allan Metzger's prescribed medications coincide with when Michael would be stressed out about a current event, that he would use a prescribed sleep medication to help relieve nervousness and help keep Michael calm enough and relaxed enough to sleep through the night!

 

[Bubs]

"At this point, Mrs. Jackson spoke quietly to the judge and judge decided to end the day short, since she was too tired to continue."

I was wondering the timing when she got tired?
Is there some sort of tactic going on behing sudden tiredness? Like Petrarose said, she already sat there nearly every day + CM trial, and there was no need for the announcement that she is tired and needs to go home to sleep? Interesting that she got tired all of sudden after 10 minutes defence started questioning her, not when plaintiffs were asking the questions.
Wonder what Monday brings in, if Panish start he usual manipulation and says that defence is pestering an old woman.
He did the same thing when they said defence lawyers were hard on Paris and Prince, which was untrue.
------------------
Mrs. Jackson: It hurts to seat here in court and hear how sick my son was and no one was trying to help him.
Mrs. Jackson: My son was sick and Kenny Ortega said nobody gave him a cup of tea. Nobody said call the doctor, let's see what's wrong w/ him
She went to MJ's Las Vegas home and talked to him about drug abuse. Michael said "Mom, I'm okay, I'm okay."


The last tweet where she says MJ told her he is ok when she went to talk to MJ, she belived him. Seemingly it didn't hurt her when her cubs told her MJ was in need for "intervention" and herself wasn't going to help him, because MJ told he was ok.
If MJ tells everyone else he is ok, then mother says that some actions should have been taken!
If I go even further, she wasn't worried about MJ's life long insomnia, but blames AEG caused it by pressuring MJ!
She wasn't worried about MJ weight, because she didn't see it, but says AEG should have seen it!

I have to shake my head to Katherine's mentality :no:

 

[loveforever]

^Because back then Katherine was forced by her children to do the 'intervention' ( reunion tour). Katherine is the only one could see Michael anytime but her children who told her they thought Michael was doing drug can't see Michael and were distanced by Him. So when Katherine went to see Michael and found out he was ok of course she was gonna trust her own eyes then the rumours. The fact is she was right back then. Michael was fine.
However, the AEG case is different. Michael's health was affected by the side effect of anesthetic and benzoes. There are many first hand witnesses who told AEG about Michael's deteriorating health. AEG is also the witness of that although they don't want to admit and strongly deny now. Actually They want to fire Kenny because he suggested the possibility of stopping the show and care Michael's health first.

 

[#MJforever57]

I'm talking about what MJ would've done or agreed to do. Not about what AEG or the Jacksons were/are dreaming about. That's why I said anyone who knew MJ would know he would have never agreed to do that many shows AND 4-5 major world tours after that. Which is doing twice as much shows that he'd done in his solo career between the age of 50 to 65 when his insomnia is at its worse.

It is completely unrealistic to believe that IMO. And AEG knew it - Gongaware said MJ won't like the big number of shows. What they were doing was just ideas, plans and hopes for the future and it would have depended on how the London shows went. But them having talks like that and MJ agreeing to it are two completely different things.

Like I said I could see him agreeing to a few more shows around the world (20-30 more shows, which is more realistic and reasonable), but 180 or 260? Nope.

Good post here but i like your last part in the bold. You was begin kind i was thinking about (15-20 more shows)

But i agree with you 100%and above Nope Nope Nope don't see that happen.

 

[Bubs]

Putnam asked her about her decision to sue AEG Live in September 2010. She said she didn't discuss with her children or her grandchildren before filing the lawsuit.

"This was your decision alone," Putnam asked.

She said it was.

So not only Katherine denied involvement of some siblings - such as Randy who publicly took credit for this lawsuit- but she also testified that she didn't talk with her grandchildren - which would mean Prince, Paris and Blanket...

I don't believe for 1 minute it popped into her head that today I'm going sue AEG. She (Randy + family) sued AEG before even CM preliminary hearing was done, not to mention criminal trial.
Every time she does something, there is always someone behing pulling the strings.
Whether it is Joe with Rowe trying to get piece of cake and tells K to go to see MJ.
Whether it is cubs telling her to talk to MJ to do tour with brothers.
Whether there is someone telling her to sell PPB to porn producer.
Whether it is someone telling her to to go to Arizona so cubs could try to hijack MJ's estate and she should stay out of the way while that happens.
Whether it is someone telling her to sue AEG.

or, of course I could be wrong and she willingly did all those things, and she is not this helpless old woman that everyone takes advantages of, and she knows exactly what is going on and intentionally did all those things above and noone was forcing her to do them?

Which one of Katherine is more believable taken into consideration her history?

 

[virginia_woolf]

^ Well, I don't believe she is this naive old woman. Her history says something different.

 

[AliCat]

Katherine saying she depended on Michael for everything ties in with why I believe Randy Phillips didn't want to advance Michael anymore money, the last weekend he was alive, the $1 million.

When Randy Phillips paid the $3 million to settle with the Prince of Bahrain, this would have included the $1 million, that Grace had testified in the lawsuit that the Prince of Bahrain had begun, in the fall of 2008. Grace used her bank account to give the $1 million dollars to Katherine Jackson.

Marc Shaffel also took Michael Jackson to Court because Michael Jackson borrowed too much money, with his McDonald's talk, when calling Marc for more money. When Michael Jackson would call Marc for money, he would intimate that he wanted more money than he had initially asked for, hence why Michael would phrase this by saying to super size the amount of money.

Michael could not put money in his Bank of America account on account of his loan with them, Michael would get behind on payments and a several hundred million dollar loan on Bank of America's books, gives Bank of America a lower rating score for future business dealings.

This is the crux of why Katherine is suing AEG Live, because she depended on Michael. Joe Jackson, the cubs of Katherine, all depended on Katherine.

I'm even wondering why TJ Jackson testified, as Paris obviously wasn't going to school and that was one of TJ's responsibilities to make sure the children were doing well in school. Since Katherine is too old to do all these things for the children. TJ Jackson testifies that Paris took it the worst about Michael Jackson's death, to allude to why she wouldn't be testifying in Court, like her brother Prince Jackson did. This is so wrong on so many levels!

 

[#MJforever57]

I know we have only heard one side of this case and AGE will be next but the sad things is all AEG is going to talk about is Michael Jackson life private and public which has nothing to do with this trial but so be it. We shouldn't be surpries and given what AEG has been saying it will get ugly.

My point is this Michael Jackson was human just like alll of us he made mistakes we all made mistakes but for him it was differance he was a Super Star always in the light always in the news you couldn't get away from it. We know Michael put some of that in the media just to keep them guessing to see what he would do next.

Looking at AEG case their are going to do anythings in their power to show this jury their are not reponsible for the hiring of Murray and for the death of Michael Jackson and if it mean putting Michael in a negtive light their will do it to me it is sad but this is how it is.

I just hope the jury will base it decsion on the facts in this case which every way their go.

I just want this to be over and let move on with Michael 's legacy there is so much to be done.

 

[#MJforever57]

"He didn't talk much about his insomnia, Mrs. Jackson said. He couldn't sleep at all at night when he was at home."

What I have gotten out of both trials is that when Michael Jackson was touring is when he had the hardest time going to sleep. Dr. Allan Metzger prescribed a sleep medication in 2003 and 2008 for Michael.

2003 was when the Bashir documentary turned Michael's life upside down, which resulted in a Criminal Trial. 2008 was when "Neverland" was headed towards a Public Auction.

Some of the symptoms of insomnia are Major depression, Anxiety, Fatigue, Mental illness.

I can see why Michael didn't like touring, these symptoms would be hard on a person, having to deal with major depression, anxiety, fatigue, mental illness.

Because the autopsy reveals how strong Michael's organs are at time of death, Dr. Allan Metzger's prescribed medications coincide with when Michael would be stressed out about a current event, that he would use a prescribed sleep medication to help relieve nervousness and help keep Michael calm enough and relaxed enough to sleep through the night!

I agree with this that why Michael said that he didn't like to tour but you had to go out and sell your album. Michael said you didn't know if you were coming or going some of the places that Michael was in the time was differance 6hrs or more no wonder why he was have problems sleeping he couldn't get the proper sleep.

 

[Bubs]

^^I'm sure we will hear some ugly stuff sooner than later, but haven't we heard some ugly and Michael's private stuff already?
Plaintiffs presented their case first and I did not miss the photos of MJ bedroom that they brought in the court room, nor did I miss they said Mj was addict/dependant/emaciated who was so clueless that he could not say yes or no to anyone, a man who has no say who should be his personal doctor, nor did I miss Karen email saying that MJ has tendency sabotaging his tours if he didn't want to do them etc. To be honest, I cannot say that plaintiffs showed Michael in glowing light.

Putnam said it well
Putnam then asked: But the witnesses called were by your attorney, right? Mrs. Jackson responded yes.

 

[TheChosenOne]

It is truly scary to contemplate what AEG will have to say, considering what the side that was allegedly fighting FOR Michael had to say!

I do not believe that Katherine was hoodwinked into filing this suit, but maybe she was not prepared for how ugly HER side would get, how they would muddy her son's name! And if she did file this suit so that she can give money to her surviving cubs, then I hope she feels horrible about how she has done it at the expense of dignity and respect of THE ONE MALE CHILD WHO LOOKED AFTER ALL OF HER NEEDS.

A part of me still hopes that some focus will be given to the greed, lies and manipulations of some members of the Jackson family and that the media picks up on those stories. But that may paint Michael in a sympathetic light and we can't have that, can we?

 

[StellaJackson]

One of the things that sticks in my mind most is the testimony from Prince where he said that Michael would come off the phone from AEG in tears and say that "they are going to kill me."

 

[Soundmind]

One of the things that sticks in my mind most is the testimony from Prince where he said that Michael would come off the phone from AEG in tears and say that "they are going to kill me."

When my mother took 6 mg of lorazepam she thought everyone was going to kill her including myself ! After being injected with 20 mg of lorazepam his accusations should have been taken with a grain of salt . Paranoia is very common with excessive use of lorazeam .the jury will get to hear all that from experts .