Michael - The Great Album Debate

I think it was BUMPER who one time told the story of being able to detect Michael's voice in the background of like a Doobie Brothers song once on the radio, and then later found out it really was him back there.

Indeed, it was me, but not on Doobie Brothers song but on "All I Do" on Stevie Wonder's song. And also, I knew MJ was involved in "Do The Bartman" from day one even though he wasn't credited by his name. It just got his vibes. Also, when I heard "I Need You" by 3T for the first time on the radio, without knowing who was singing the song, I expected MJ to sing along, and all of sudden I heard his voice towards the end of the song. There were many other occasions where I felt his style and vibes in the songs from the first notes.

The last example was A.R. Rahman. I was listening to his music and thought to myself, a duet or collaboration with MJ would be great. And right before Invicible dropped I (not) surprisingly heard that MJ indeed was about to do a duet with A.R.Rahman.
 
Funny, Stella and others are 100% sure -- using their EARS -- that it's all MJ on that bridge -- no other singers.

Using MY ears, I think MJ is in there, but real low in the mix, surrounded by other voices.

And this is important because it shows how difficult it is to identify some voices in certain circumctances with 100 % certainty (hello, doubters).

It is also important because this bridge was recorded/added/mixed/whatever during a period where MJ worked with Eddie Cascio, so all artistic decisions made at that point might be of interest when it comes to the issue at hand.

Pentum : I'm not the one who said the WBSS 2008 vocals were from a demo from the eighties, but I remember a lot of other fans made that claim before MJ's death, when Thriller 25 was released.

Suggestion : could we all stop accusing each other of "not knowing MJ'S voice"? We're all fans who have spent probably thousands of hours listening to MJ's voice over decades. So I think it can be assumed that we all know MJ's voice.

i promised not to come back in here..but the exception i make is when you speak for somebody else. do NOT speak for me. It's one hundred percent MJ and no Cascios involved, if you are speaking of 'For All Time'. Speak only for yourself. Nothing pisses me off more, than when someone speaks for me. Yes I am a doubter and it looks as if you are trying to speak for all doubters when you say something is difficult to tell...and that would mean you are trying to speak for me. Don't do that. Don't speak for me.
 
Suggestion : could we all stop accusing each other of "not knowing MJ'S voice"? We're all fans who have spent probably thousands of hours listening to MJ's voice over decades. So I think it can be assumed that we all know MJ's voice.

It would be nice if that were the case, but it plainly isn't. Look no further than the reactions to Malachi when he first emerged.
 
I'll re-use Kreen's argument about being 100% certain about recognizing someone's voice. The reason why the doubters doubt the voice on the Cascio songs is because they are not 100% certain it is MJ singing unlike with all other MJ's songs. That's why the doubters demand proofs, because of the lack of certainty.

Now I have a question for the believers, can you vouch with 100% certainty that it is Michael Jackson's voice on the cascio tracks?

If the answer is "yes", then Kreen's argument about certainty is senseless.
If the answer is "no", then everyone is actually a doubter inhere.

Still I am curious if among the believers you can vouch and guarantee with 100% certainty that MJ sings on the Cascio tracks.
 
Last edited:
It would be nice if that were the case, but it plainly isn't. Look no further than the reactions to Malachi when he first emerged.

Yep, just look at the comments on YouTube. There are still plenty of people who believe Jason's own songs are Michael, and this includes fans. There are also plenty of fans who bought the 7Even album and thought all the songs were Michael.
 
I'll re-use Kreen's argument about being 100% certain about recognizing someone's voice. The reason why the doubters doubt the voice on the Cascio songs is because they are not 100% certain it is MJ singing unlike with all other MJ's songs. That's why the doubters demand proofs, because of the lack of certainty.

Now I have a question for the believers, can you vouch with 100% certainty that it is Michael Jackson's voice on the cascio tracks?

If the answer is "yes", then Kreen's argument about certainty is senseless.
If the answer is "no", then everyone is actually a doubter inhere.

Still I am curious if among the believers you can vouch and guarantee with 100% certainty that MJ sings on the Cascio tracks.
I agree with your whole post, but regarding the bolded:

Exactly. The seriousness of the matter demands 100% proof. And both doubters and believers should have that common goal to see or hear that 100% proof (ok, 99% is fine with me too). If we ever get it is another question.
 
I agree with your whole post, but regarding the bolded:

Exactly. The seriousness of the matter demands 100% proof. And both doubters and believers should have that common goal to see or hear that 100% proof (ok, 99% is fine with me too). If we ever get it is another question.

Well you know, the certainty I was talking about was the kind of thing when we, for example, have no slightest idea who Rockwell is while watching, for the first time, his video "Somebody's watching me" and despite the fact that Michael Jackson is not credited on the video when MTV broadcasts it, you are certain you hear him singing the refrain. In that case, there is no 99% certainty, but 1000%. However on the album Michael, MJ's own album, we aren't able to tell 100% whether it's him or not. How ironic.

But in this case hereunder, imagine you see the video for the first time without being credited at all, it's impossible that as a fan you doubt MJ's voice, even though he's nowhere to be seen.

We clearly hear MJ's and Rockwell's voices as different ones. There is no dilemma of stacking, blending, mixing, processing and other blahblah. There is no lack of certainty, therefore there is no demand for proof whatsoever. The voice is clearly MJ's.

[youtube]7YvAYIJSSZY[/youtube]
 
Last edited:
Am I 100% certain that it’s MJ singing the Cascio songs? No, I’m not, because we haven’t got definite proof. But because of all the reasons I’ve explained at length many times before, it strikes me as very unlikely that the voice isn’t MJ.

Theoretically, we could have the same doubt about ANY MJ song for which we don’t have definite proof of MJ singing it – and that’s a lot of songs. But of course, in the absence of any particular reason to doubt the authenticity of something, we don’t doubt it; otherwise, we could barely function in society.

The reason why there is particular doubt about the Cascio songs is because of the nature of the songs, and the circumstances surrounding them. Both create doubt, but the internal and external analysis of the songs assuages to a large extent – in my case – those doubts.

It’s like in the field of history. Some works can be attributed to a given historical author with 100 % (or 99.9 %) certainty, while others are more like 95 %, 90 %. Some scholars will only study the works that are not debated; some will admit all but the most disputed works.

Of course, when it comes to historical figures, proof is often lost to history, so it’s difficult to settle any dispute. But in the case of those songs, the proof – or lack thereof – is right there for the taking, as it were: a legal challenge would result in the proof being produced, or the lie being revealed. So I stick to my main point: considering that there are people who could certainly profit from exposing this lie, and that the means to do so are available to them, the fact that they haven’t tried to tells me that the proof exists, and is solid.
 
kreen;3732280 said:
Am I 100% certain that it’s MJ singing the Cascio songs? No, I’m not, because we haven’t got definite proof. But because of all the reasons I’ve explained at length many times before, it strikes me as very unlikely that the voice isn’t MJ.

Theoretically, we could have the same doubt about ANY MJ song for which we don’t have definite proof of MJ singing it – and that’s a lot of songs. But of course, in the absence of any particular reason to doubt the authenticity of something, we don’t doubt it; otherwise, we could barely function in society.

The reason why there is particular doubt about the Cascio songs is because of the nature of the songs, and the circumstances surrounding them. Both create doubt, but the internal and external analysis of the songs assuages to a large extent – in my case – those doubts.

It’s like in the field of history. Some works can be attributed to a given historical author with 100 % (or 99.9 %) certainty, while others are more like 95 %, 90 %. Some scholars will only study the works that are not debated; some will admit all but the most disputed works.

Of course, when it comes to historical figures, proof is often lost to history, so it’s difficult to settle any dispute. But in the case of those songs, the proof – or lack thereof – is right there for the taking, as it were: a legal challenge would result in the proof being produced, or the lie being revealed. So I stick to my main point: considering that there are people who could certainly profit from exposing this lie, and that the means to do so are available to them, the fact that they haven’t tried to tells me that the proof exists, and is solid.
There is only 1 main reason for the doubt and that's the lead vocals. That is and was always the main reason.

Now there are hundreds of other things that we have found over time which dont add up.
 
The one and only reason for doubt regarding the Cascio songs is that instead of sounding like Michael Jackson, they sound identical to Jason Cupeta in every way. Anything else, such as lack of proof it's Michael, changing stories etc, is important but ultimately secondary. Anyone who doesn't understand that simply doesn't understand this situation full stop.
 
Does anyone know if the 'hee hee hee' in Breaking News is copy-pasted from 'In the Closet'? Is that analyzed by someone or is there a comparison? Maybe I missed that discussion. The first one sounds like it is sung by the lead singer. The second one (4x hee), is more difficult to tell (sounds like lead singer to me too).

I ask this because I just read this 'Michael' review from a fellow doubter. Nice read:

http://www.rockfeedback.com/review/4917/michael-jackson-michael-sony/

[youtube]LlLGXP9qK-Y[/youtube]

^^4.32

[youtube]U9bR8h78NSI[/youtube]]

^^3.20 and 3.33
 
Does anyone know if the 'hee hee hee' in Breaking News is copy-pasted from 'In the Closet'? Is that analyzed by someone or is there a comparison? Maybe I missed that discussion. The first one sounds like it is sung by the lead singer. The second one (4x hee), is more difficult to tell (sounds like lead singer to me too).

I ask this because I just read this 'Michael' review from a fellow doubter. Nice read:

http://www.rockfeedback.com/review/4917/michael-jackson-michael-sony/

[youtube]LlLGXP9qK-Y[/youtube]

^^4.32

[youtube]U9bR8h78NSI[/youtube]]

^^3.20 and 3.33

Definately not. That hee hee hee is Jason. It was done during his three week session when the songs were recorded end of Feb/early March 2010. The adlibs from other songs were pasted in in May.
 
kreen;3732280 said:
Am I 100% certain that it’s MJ singing the Cascio songs? No, I’m not, because we haven’t got definite proof. But because of all the reasons I’ve explained at length many times before, it strikes me as very unlikely that the voice isn’t MJ.

Theoretically, we could have the same doubt about ANY MJ song for which we don’t have definite proof of MJ singing it – and that’s a lot of songs. But of course, in the absence of any particular reason to doubt the authenticity of something, we don’t doubt it; otherwise, we could barely function in society.

The reason why there is particular doubt about the Cascio songs is because of the nature of the songs, and the circumstances surrounding them. Both create doubt, but the internal and external analysis of the songs assuages to a large extent – in my case – those doubts.

It’s like in the field of history. Some works can be attributed to a given historical author with 100 % (or 99.9 %) certainty, while others are more like 95 %, 90 %. Some scholars will only study the works that are not debated; some will admit all but the most disputed works.

Of course, when it comes to historical figures, proof is often lost to history, so it’s difficult to settle any dispute. But in the case of those songs, the proof – or lack thereof – is right there for the taking, as it were: a legal challenge would result in the proof being produced, or the lie being revealed. So I stick to my main point: considering that there are people who could certainly profit from exposing this lie, and that the means to do so are available to them, the fact that they haven’t tried to tells me that the proof exists, and is solid.

I disagree. "Somebody's watching me" example explains how from the very moment --even if it's the first time-- you hear MJ's voice there's no slightest doubt as opposed to the Cascio songs.

From the moment you don't recognize a voice and you aren't sure 100%, then you may call yourself a believer all you want, but the truth of the matter is that because you can't vouch 100% you are just another doubter. This wouldn't happen with "Somebody's watching me" where you could affirm 100% that MJ sings the refrain.
 
11 pages away from page 2000. Yet still....we are debating. Is this the largest MJJC thread out there?
 
Yes, when I first heard Somebody's Watching Me I just KNEW it was Michael! And there's that other song, I think it's Can't Get Your Weight Off Me where you hear his voice for about half a second and can tell it's him.

Michael had a power and angelic quality to his voice that was perfected over so many years and his voice just stands apart from anybody's. My jaw dropped and my heart sank when the lead vocals started on Breaking News. It was a disgusting moment and I've never had it with a Michael Jackson song in history. There is not a Michael Jackson song that could give me the same feeling the Cascio songs give me and it's 100% completely entirely because of the lead vocals and nothing to do with the Cascio's and the surrounding situations around the recording of the songs.
 
For those who wanna test. Listen to the song and tell if you can hear MJ in the background.

[youtube]cZ9Pa41KJjM[/youtube]
 
That's kinda funny that you mention Somebody's Watching Me, cuz when BN was first streamed, my dad says, 'Like anyone can't recognize Michael Jackson's voice, for example, when I heard that song, 'Somebody's Watching Me', anyone can tell that it's MJ right away :p
 
Oh yes, I can definitely hear Michael in there. His voice and accent is so unique. I'd only heard Michael and Stevie do Get It before, this song is amazing. I love everything I've heard from Stevie Wonder, though, what a great duo they make. I wish they'd done more.
 
For those who wanna test. Listen to the song and tell if you can hear MJ in the background.

[youtube]cZ9Pa41KJjM[/youtube]

They got the album wrong. It's from 'Songs In The Key Of Life'. I confess I can't distinguish any vocalist in the background. Michael was so good at playing the company guy and not trying to be a star when he was a backing vocalist, that I didn't notice anybody stand out back there...just great harmony.
 
They got the album wrong. It's from 'Songs In The Key Of Life'. I confess I can't distinguish any vocalist in the background. Michael was so good at playing the company guy and not trying to be a star when he was a backing vocalist, that I didn't notice anybody stand out back there...just great harmony.

It's from Hotter Than July.
 
They got the album wrong. It's from 'Songs In The Key Of Life'. I confess I can't distinguish any vocalist in the background. Michael was so good at playing the company guy and not trying to be a star when he was a backing vocalist, that I didn't notice anybody stand out back there...just great harmony.

If you listen carefully, you will hear his voice in the background. His voice is quite recognizable. Now the real challenge is to hear him in this background (great song by the way, and huge chorus!):

[youtube]yi91HQHmyLs[/youtube]
 
Yes, when I first heard Somebody's Watching Me I just KNEW it was Michael! And there's that other song, I think it's Can't Get Your Weight Off Me where you hear his voice for about half a second and can tell it's him.

Michael had a power and angelic quality to his voice that was perfected over so many years and his voice just stands apart from anybody's. My jaw dropped and my heart sank when the lead vocals started on Breaking News. It was a disgusting moment and I've never had it with a Michael Jackson song in history. There is not a Michael Jackson song that could give me the same feeling the Cascio songs give me and it's 100% completely entirely because of the lead vocals and nothing to do with the Cascio's and the surrounding situations around the recording of the songs.
EXACTLY! Look at that song, we have 2 mini snippets of this song, almost NO information on it, yet we know for a fact that it's 100% MJ.
 
I recognize Michael in 'All I do', but if I didn't know it, I wouldn't.

And in Donna Summer's 'State of Independence', I don't recognize him at all.

It's not always that obvious (for me) in backgroundvocals.
 
Here's another one:
[youtube]H3Lt4c-Hnsw[/youtube]

Edit: I hadn't heard about this bs story from Jay-Z saying MJ did bg vocals on his lame song "Girls, girls, girls.

http://www.xxlmag.com/news/latest-h...ael-jackson-sang-backup-on-girls-girls-girls/

[youtube]LUg7G3CPos0[/youtube]
I can't hear any MJ, that person singing in the BG doesn't sound like Michael.

Here's a remix I think he meant, but it still doesn't sound like MJ in the chorus, sounds like a female:

[youtube]M25lnBq4A0[/youtube] (go to 3.40 for that voice)
 
Last edited:
Here's another one:
[youtube]H3Lt4c-Hnsw[/youtube]

Edit: I hadn't heard about this bs story from Jay-Z saying MJ did bg vocals on his lame song "Girls, girls, girls.

http://www.xxlmag.com/news/latest-h...ael-jackson-sang-backup-on-girls-girls-girls/

[youtube]LUg7G3CPos0[/youtube]
I can't hear any MJ, that person singing in the BG doesn't sound like Michael.

Here's a remix I think he meant, but it still doesn't sound like MJ in the chorus, sounds like a female:

[youtube]M25lnBq4A0[/youtube] (go to 3.40 for that voice)


I hear him in the background stacked with other voices. There are other voices in the background too. ( I was referring to "Don't Let A Woman")


In the song "Girls, girls, girls", I don't hear MJ at all.
 
Last edited:
I hear him in the background stacked with other voices. There are other voices in the background too. ( I was referring to "Don't Let A Woman")


In the song "Girls, girls, girls", I don't hear MJ at all.
Only Michael and the lead singer as I hear it. And of course in the end of 'Don't let a woman'. But he's singing solo there, so that's easy.

Can't remember I ever heard that reggae song. Thanks for posting Pentum.
 
Back
Top