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Michael - The Great Album Debate

lucilla said:
I'd prefer a discussion about monkey balls :D
Click to expand...
Monkeys-Rule-The-World-14.jpg
 
Guys, c'mon... stop being immature! I mean really... you forgot the monkey penis... ;)
 
80 guests viewing this thread right now :ninja: I guess the monkey balls are a big hit :D
 
Arklove said:
80 guests viewing this thread right now :ninja: I guess the monkey balls are a big hit :D
Click to expand...

Oh hi! :ciao:
Well, apparently sex sells.




Now I'm going to throw out this question to the believers again, so people don't think we are wasting space and audience here :)

Given the fact that Michael loved what he did, recording music, songs, etc, if Michael had the time to record 12 songs (= a whole album) in a matter of months in a friend's home studio, how many dozens of songs (= albums) did he record in his/a professional studio in a matter of years?
It'll be great if some believers could answer this.





Ok, you may continue with the monkey talk, if you like :D
 
Last edited:
lucilla said:
Oh hi! :ciao:
Well, apparently sex sells.




Now I'm going to throw out this question to the believers again, so people don't think we are wasting space and audience here :)

Given the fact that Michael loved what he did, recording music, songs, etc, if Michael had the time to record 12 songs (= a whole album) in a matter of months in a friend's home studio, how many dozens of songs (= albums) did he record in his/a professional studio in a matter of years?
It'll be great if some believers could answer this.





Ok, you may continue with the monkey talk, if you like :D
Click to expand...

I believe that Michael Jackson has many unreleased songs by many I'll say 40+.

Also Tommy Mottola said in 09 that there are many unreleased songs that he has heard from 91-01.


Michael Jackson's last manager Frank DiLeo and Quincy Jones said that MJ recorded 30+ songs for the Bad album in 1987.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
I believe that Michael Jackson has many unreleased songs by many I'll say 40+.

Also Tommy Mottola said in 09 that there are many unreleased songs that he has heard from 91-01.


Michael Jackson's last manager Frank DiLeo and Quincy Jones said that MJ recorded 30+ songs for the Bad album in 1987.
Click to expand...


And where are those songs*? (since the Estate claims they don't have much material to release, maximum 2-3 albums including the 12 Cascio songs)











*in preparation?
 
I suspect there aren't many songs with fully recorded vocals. That Michael did write a lot of songs and worked on them from time to time, but like I said, not with the vocals on them or tiny bits or hums or something like that (except for a few maybe that were 'complete')
From the articles in the news, to me the emphasis was on (doesn't sound like good English o_O) that Michael recorded songs with Eddie Cascio with full vocals, like it was something special. Something so special that The Estate couldn't resist using it obviously and were to keen/happy with that opportunity to doubt or question them.

My guess.


lucilla said:
Oh hi! :ciao:
Well, apparently sex sells.
Click to expand...

Fact.
 
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Chamife said:
I suspect there aren't many songs with fully recorded vocals. That Michael did write a lot of songs and worked on them from time to time, but like I said, not with the vocals on them or tiny bits or hums or something like that (except for a few maybe that were 'complete')
From the articles in the news, to me the emphasis was on (doesn't sound like good English o_O) that Michael recorded songs with Eddie Cascio with full vocals, like it was something special. Something so special that The Estate couldn't resist using it obviously and were to keen/happy with that opportunity to doubt or question them.

My guess.




Fact.
Click to expand...

The Estate has clearly disappointed me with my idol's first posthumous album. They actually more than disappointed me, they have made ma bitter and angry, something I have never experienced when listening to Michael Jackson.

So many possibilities with modern technology, so many ideas, so many options and they chose to screw the things big time. No ccreativity whatsoever, just dull releases.

"This is it" movie was great. But for heaven's sake, couldn't they use the music from the actual film as the soundtrack rather than releasing yet another cd with studio songs? Couldn't they promote at least one of the songs from the This Is It movie as a new short film. For example some kind of medley remix with pictures from Thriller, dancing to Threatened, using the zombies, using new footages of Smooth Criminal, using the dancers from Shake Your Body, using the famous "drill", and so on? They could have that way promoted the soundtrack CD. I feel no effort was put. Just a copy paste from studio albums and a new wrap and that was it.

The first posthumous album is released, what they do? They put songs which they are unable to back with anything else but claims. In the era of 3D lenses posters (which they used on the DVD set, yet with low quality videos, no blu-ray) they opt for a drawing/painting of MJ. Where ahs creativity gone? Where has magic gone? What have people learned when they were around MJ other than grabbing some money on his back?

No wonder why the fan community is split. They don't care about us.
 
lucilla said:
Oh hi! :ciao:
Well, apparently sex sells.




Now I'm going to throw out this question to the believers again, so people don't think we are wasting space and audience here :)

Given the fact that Michael loved what he did, recording music, songs, etc, if Michael had the time to record 12 songs (= a whole album) in a matter of months in a friend's home studio, how many dozens of songs (= albums) did he record in his/a professional studio in a matter of years?
It'll be great if some believers could answer this.





Ok, you may continue with the monkey talk, if you like :D
Click to expand...

Michael didn't record a dozen songs in the Cascio studio. Simple as that. If so, where are they? Nothing has been released that sounds remotely like Michael and there is no evidence of Michael's involvement in said songs.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
I believe that Michael Jackson has many unreleased songs by many I'll say 40+.

Also Tommy Mottola said in 09 that there are many unreleased songs that he has heard from 91-01.


Michael Jackson's last manager Frank DiLeo and Quincy Jones said that MJ recorded 30+ songs for the Bad album in 1987.
Click to expand...

So, over the course of Michael's 30-year career since Off The Wall, you think he left approximately 40 songs. Yet, you also think he could record twelve songs in one month.

Let's do the math here:

There are 360 months in 30 years. 360 x 12 = 4,320.

Okay, I'll give a 95% haircut to the above number. Say, Michael was productive in his life for 5% of the time. 4,320 x 0.05 = 216

Instead of ~40 songs, there should be about 216 songs in the notorious vault.

BIG QUESTION: What happened to the 200+ songs?
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
He was stabbed in the back as a matter of fact

images
Click to expand...

Everybody wanting a piece of Michael Jackson

These kind of lyrics caused strange thoughts in my head, like what if this whole debacle is some sort of weird testing? To make a point to fans or something like that. Like: See, Michael was stabbed in the back like this and made advantage of his whole life. We wanted to see if even faking his vocals and music was possible. We tried to give hints, like these lyrics and by giving interviews that were incoherent and riddled with contradictions. Teddy even tweeted cryptic tweets about his work for Michael, but unfortunately everybody wanted the new Michael songs. But people, it was all a test!! It's not Michael!!

Twilight zone-esque.
 
Petrarose said:
HAAAAA. I like what the baby is doing with his fingers. Talk about ouch!!! Now if we could only get the baby to do the same thing with the Cascio tracks--sort of pull and squeeze them out of oblivion.
Click to expand...
:lol:
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
The Estate has clearly disappointed me with my idol's first posthumous album. They actually more than disappointed me, they have made ma bitter and angry, something I have never experienced when listening to Michael Jackson.

So many possibilities with modern technology, so many ideas, so many options and they chose to screw the things big time. No ccreativity whatsoever, just dull releases.

"This is it" movie was great. But for heaven's sake, couldn't they use the music from the actual film as the soundtrack rather than releasing yet another cd with studio songs? Couldn't they promote at least one of the songs from the This Is It movie as a new short film. For example some kind of medley remix with pictures from Thriller, dancing to Threatened, using the zombies, using new footages of Smooth Criminal, using the dancers from Shake Your Body, using the famous "drill", and so on? They could have that way promoted the soundtrack CD. I feel no effort was put. Just a copy paste from studio albums and a new wrap and that was it.

The first posthumous album is released, what they do? They put songs which they are unable to back with anything else but claims. In the era of 3D lenses posters (which they used on the DVD set, yet with low quality videos, no blu-ray) they opt for a drawing/painting of MJ. Where ahs creativity gone? Where has magic gone? What have people learned when they were around MJ other than grabbing some money on his back?

No wonder why the fan community is split. They don't care about us.
Click to expand...

I hear what you are saying. I have to say This Is It the film is the only posthumous project that I love. All else are mediocre. And, IMHO, having Kenny Ortega to be the director of the film can explain why Michael's magic can still be felt. Kenny witnessed magic. He worked with Michael. He knew what Michael's vision was for the concert. He's one of the very few people Michael worked with. He was able to channel Michael's vision to the film. Kenny Ortega did a great job.

I like the This Is It album because of the demos. Disc 1 is redundant to me. I remember when the single This Is It was released. It's overwhelmed by the Paul Anka controversy. At that time, fans didn't mind. We knew it's just a few months after Michael's passing. The Estate had not completed invetorying Michael's songs.

Then came the Vision, what a disappointment! The quality of some films is so bad that it really isn't watchable. And the sloppiness? Seriously, green screen and no sound at the beginning of WYBT? These may be minor misstakes, but I'd expect better quality control.

Then came Michael, we all know why Michael was a disappointment.

Then Immortal the remix album, I know many people like it. But, I don't really care much about it. I thought I may listen to it more often after watching the Cirque show. But, not really. I'd rather go back to the original albums, which are PERFECT.

Now, it's hard for me to be as optimistic and upbeat as I once was in mid-2010.
 
love is magical said:
I hear what you are saying. I have to say This Is It the film is the only posthumous project that I love. All else are mediocre. And, IMHO, having Kenny Ortega to be the director of the film can explain why Michael's magic can still be felt. Kenny witnessed magic. He worked with Michael. He knew what Michael's vision was for the concert. He's one of the very few people Michael worked with. He was able to channel Michael's vision to the film. Kenny Ortega did a great job.

I like the This Is It album because of the demos. Disc 1 is redundant to me. I remember when the single This Is It was released. It's overwhelmed by the Paul Anka controversy. At that time, fans didn't mind. We knew it's just a few months after Michael's passing. The Estate had not completed invetorying Michael's songs.

Then came the Vision, what a disappointment! The quality of some films is so bad that it really isn't watchable. And the sloppiness? Seriously, green screen and no sound at the beginning of WYBT? These may be minor misstakes, but I'd expect better quality control.

Then came Michael, we all know why Michael was a disappointment.

Then Immortal the remix album, I know many people like it. But, I don't really care much about it. I thought I may listen to it more often after watching the Cirque show. But, not really. I'd rather go back to the original albums, which are PERFECT.

Now, it's hard for me to be as optimistic and upbeat as I once was in mid-2010.
Click to expand...

I really hoped for This is it soundtrack to be from the actual movie. I am sick of the best ofs.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I really hoped for This is it soundtrack to be from the actual movie. I am sick of the best ofs.
Click to expand...


And, can anyone blame us?

Okay, one might say there are many "best-of" collections from other artists. Michael is not the only one with gazillion greatest-hit albums. I'm not against greatest-hit albums. I know they appeal to casual fans. But, for an artist who released only six studio albums in his adult time, Michael has awful lot greatest hits albums. Also, each one of his albums can stand as greatest-hit album all by themselves. Look at Bad, out of 10 songs, seven were released as singles. 10 out of 10 are great.

And, in this digital age when people can store thousands of songs in an iPod, I can make up my own greatest-hit playlist. It's not like I have to carry a greatest-hit CD in order to avoid carry all six CDs with me when I go out.

Nevertheless, I gave in. I have HIStory Disc I, Number Ones, TUC, King of Pop (HK edition), Thriller 25, TII Disc I and Immortal in my collection. So, I have six complilation and remix albums and six studio albums. The ratio is 1:1. But, now, I have to say Bad 25 has to be really special in order for me to spend money on it.
 
old news about the unreleased catalog

Jackson left huge catalog of new music for kids
(mentions Halperin as one source :(

A secret song library, reportedly stocked with up to 200 unreleased tracks, could mean a lasting legacy for Jackson’s brood.

According to the Daily Express, the “King of Pop” bequeathed the massive music catalog to Michael Joseph Jr. (aka Prince Michael), 12, Paris Michael Katherine, 11, and Prince Michael II (aka Blanket), 7, just weeks before his death.

“He has as many as 200 unpublished songs that he planned to leave his children when he died,” a source explained. “They can’t be touched by the creditors, but they could be worth as much as ($100 million) that will ensure his kids a comfortable existence no matter what happens.”

A report in the Times Online, which puts the unreleased song count closer to 100, revealed biographer Ian Halperin discovered Jackson’s plan while researching his forthcoming book, “Unmasked: The Michael Jackson Story.”

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31628...eft-huge-catalog-new-music-kids/#.T7WzG8XUduY


Michael Jackson Left 'Endless' Supply Of Unreleased Music

Michael Jackson had a mountain of unreleased recordings in the vault when he died — music that is almost certain to be packaged and repackaged for his fans in the years to come.

The material includes unused tracks from studio sessions of some of Jackson's best albums, as well as more recently recorded songs made with Senegalese R&B singer and producer Akon and Black Eyed Peas frontman will.i.am.

"There are dozens and dozens of songs that did not end up on his albums," said Tommy Mottola, who from 1998 to 2003 was chairman and CEO of Sony Music, which owns the distribution rights to Jackson's music. "People will be hearing a lot of that unreleased material for the first time ever. There's just some genius and brilliance in there."

The releases, Mottola said, "could go on for years and years — even more than Elvis."...

...Akon said they never actually completed a song except for "Hold My Hand," which leaked last year. "All the other songs were just ideas," Akon said.

He said he will keep the song fragments — a chorus here, a verse there — "locked up in the vault" until the Jackson family decides how to proceed. He said it could be worked into a tribute album.

"It was all positive records — songs to uplift people, songs to make people think about the problems in life," Akon said. "It was all about bringing people together."

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news...endless-supply-of-unreleased-1003990274.story


we worked on about 40 tracks for History. 15 were released on that record, with three stragglers released on "Blood on the Dancefloor".

Just a few of the unreleased tracks on History could really be called close to finished. Many of the rest are just pieces of grooves, clicks with a few sounds, maybe some MJ vocalizing, and that's about it. Babyface worked on two tracks which you've heard on 3T. Dallas Austin did a few things that no one's heard, but I don't know how much involvement MJ actually had on those. Rene and Bruce created lots of tracks but MJ only worked on Too Bad. So 100+ ? Not on HIStory.

- Rob Hoffman, sound engineer

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-m...rked-michael-jacksons-dangerous-album-33.html
 
mj_forever;3640020 said:
old news about the unreleased catalog

Jackson left huge catalog of new music for kids
(mentions Halperin as one source :(

A secret song library, reportedly stocked with up to 200 unreleased tracks, could mean a lasting legacy for Jackson’s brood.

According to the Daily Express, the “King of Pop” bequeathed the massive music catalog to Michael Joseph Jr. (aka Prince Michael), 12, Paris Michael Katherine, 11, and Prince Michael II (aka Blanket), 7, just weeks before his death.

“He has as many as 200 unpublished songs that he planned to leave his children when he died,” a source explained. “They can’t be touched by the creditors, but they could be worth as much as ($100 million) that will ensure his kids a comfortable existence no matter what happens.”

A report in the Times Online, which puts the unreleased song count closer to 100, revealed biographer Ian Halperin discovered Jackson’s plan while researching his forthcoming book, “Unmasked: The Michael Jackson Story.”

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31628...eft-huge-catalog-new-music-kids/#.T7WzG8XUduY


Michael Jackson Left 'Endless' Supply Of Unreleased Music

Michael Jackson had a mountain of unreleased recordings in the vault when he died — music that is almost certain to be packaged and repackaged for his fans in the years to come.

The material includes unused tracks from studio sessions of some of Jackson's best albums, as well as more recently recorded songs made with Senegalese R&B singer and producer Akon and Black Eyed Peas frontman will.i.am.

"There are dozens and dozens of songs that did not end up on his albums," said Tommy Mottola, who from 1998 to 2003 was chairman and CEO of Sony Music, which owns the distribution rights to Jackson's music. "People will be hearing a lot of that unreleased material for the first time ever. There's just some genius and brilliance in there."

The releases, Mottola said, "could go on for years and years — even more than Elvis."...

...Akon said they never actually completed a song except for "Hold My Hand," which leaked last year. "All the other songs were just ideas," Akon said.

He said he will keep the song fragments — a chorus here, a verse there — "locked up in the vault" until the Jackson family decides how to proceed. He said it could be worked into a tribute album.

"It was all positive records — songs to uplift people, songs to make people think about the problems in life," Akon said. "It was all about bringing people together."

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news...endless-supply-of-unreleased-1003990274.story


we worked on about 40 tracks for History. 15 were released on that record, with three stragglers released on "Blood on the Dancefloor".

Just a few of the unreleased tracks on History could really be called close to finished. Many of the rest are just pieces of grooves, clicks with a few sounds, maybe some MJ vocalizing, and that's about it. Babyface worked on two tracks which you've heard on 3T. Dallas Austin did a few things that no one's heard, but I don't know how much involvement MJ actually had on those. Rene and Bruce created lots of tracks but MJ only worked on Too Bad. So 100+ ? Not on HIStory.

- Rob Hoffman, sound engineer

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-m...rked-michael-jacksons-dangerous-album-33.html
Click to expand...

Thank you. I wonder where are the songs and how much in reality? I remember the Secret Vault in hands of K. Jackson/H. Mann (with Opus None)... and who knows where else... with people that Michael worked with (Will.i.am for example), could be (completed/uncompleted) songs and how many...? So the songs in the Secret Vault are preserved for Michael's children? Sooner or later they will see the light? (but I :D will really be old at that time...)
So the Estate really has very few songs in their hands?... and that's why they use every little snippet they have or can get (Cascio tracks)? Is it so?
 
After coming back from my road trip, you have to reflect back upon Michael's speech, back in 2002, and how upset he was with how poorly he felt treated by Sony, the lack of promotion of "Invincible."


Now if Michael was extremely upset about his latest perfection of "Invincible" and how Sony didn't support him, how can Michael Jackson fan's believe that the Cascio tracks are considered masterpieces like the final songs on "Invincible."

This is why fans are upset. Michael told us the truth in this speech!
 
AliCat said:
After coming back from my road trip, you have to reflect back upon Michael's speech, back in 2002, and how upset he was with how poorly he felt treated by Sony, the lack of promotion of "Invincible."


Now if Michael was extremely upset about his latest perfection of "Invincible" and how Sony didn't support him, how can Michael Jackson fan's believe that the Cascio tracks are considered masterpieces like the final songs on "Invincible."

This is why fans are upset. Michael told us the truth in this speech!
Click to expand...


Some prefer believe Eddie and Teddy than MJ himself.
 
^^ that's another thing...If Eddie was so close to Michael, he had to have known how displeased Michael was with Sony....yet he sold his songs to Sony anyway...
 
...and let's not forget 'bout Michael's cousin, Jimi.

Jimi Hendrix - The Star Spangled Banner (Live at Woodstock 1969)

On the "Invincible" album, Carlos Santana performed. Carlos Santana also performed at Woodstock, along with Jimi Hendrix. Michael loved HIStory and was always chronicling within his own agenda. Whether performing, recording, speeches, Michael always reminded us of the GREATS in history. Let's not forget that Jimi was a black man who set a standard for all great guitarists, that to this day no one has touched. Which brings us back to Michael Jackson knew talent. He wanted the best in his performances. Why the Cascio songs don't reach this quality shows (once again) that subpar is not great.

Michael enjoyed the company of the Cascio family because they never used him for a dime when he was alive. Is this a "Purple Haze"!
 
mj_forever;3640020 said:
old news about the unreleased catalog

Jackson left huge catalog of new music for kids
(mentions Halperin as one source :(

A secret song library, reportedly stocked with up to 200 unreleased tracks, could mean a lasting legacy for Jackson’s brood.

According to the Daily Express, the “King of Pop” bequeathed the massive music catalog to Michael Joseph Jr. (aka Prince Michael), 12, Paris Michael Katherine, 11, and Prince Michael II (aka Blanket), 7, just weeks before his death.

“He has as many as 200 unpublished songs that he planned to leave his children when he died,” a source explained. “They can’t be touched by the creditors, but they could be worth as much as ($100 million) that will ensure his kids a comfortable existence no matter what happens.”

A report in the Times Online, which puts the unreleased song count closer to 100, revealed biographer Ian Halperin discovered Jackson’s plan while researching his forthcoming book, “Unmasked: The Michael Jackson Story.”

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31628...eft-huge-catalog-new-music-kids/#.T7WzG8XUduY


Michael Jackson Left 'Endless' Supply Of Unreleased Music

Michael Jackson had a mountain of unreleased recordings in the vault when he died — music that is almost certain to be packaged and repackaged for his fans in the years to come.

The material includes unused tracks from studio sessions of some of Jackson's best albums, as well as more recently recorded songs made with Senegalese R&B singer and producer Akon and Black Eyed Peas frontman will.i.am.

"There are dozens and dozens of songs that did not end up on his albums," said Tommy Mottola, who from 1998 to 2003 was chairman and CEO of Sony Music, which owns the distribution rights to Jackson's music. "People will be hearing a lot of that unreleased material for the first time ever. There's just some genius and brilliance in there."

The releases, Mottola said, "could go on for years and years — even more than Elvis."...

...Akon said they never actually completed a song except for "Hold My Hand," which leaked last year. "All the other songs were just ideas," Akon said.

He said he will keep the song fragments — a chorus here, a verse there — "locked up in the vault" until the Jackson family decides how to proceed. He said it could be worked into a tribute album.

"It was all positive records — songs to uplift people, songs to make people think about the problems in life," Akon said. "It was all about bringing people together."

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news...endless-supply-of-unreleased-1003990274.story


we worked on about 40 tracks for History. 15 were released on that record, with three stragglers released on "Blood on the Dancefloor".

Just a few of the unreleased tracks on History could really be called close to finished. Many of the rest are just pieces of grooves, clicks with a few sounds, maybe some MJ vocalizing, and that's about it. Babyface worked on two tracks which you've heard on 3T. Dallas Austin did a few things that no one's heard, but I don't know how much involvement MJ actually had on those. Rene and Bruce created lots of tracks but MJ only worked on Too Bad. So 100+ ? Not on HIStory.

- Rob Hoffman, sound engineer

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-m...rked-michael-jacksons-dangerous-album-33.html
Click to expand...

Especially the first article, it reads like speculation, and look at who they are relying on--Ian who was supposed to find this out while writing his book. In the first article they have no evidence of anything there, but are merely stating what they think--Michael has many songs and he left it to his kids. Of course he would leave his estate to his kids!!
 
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