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Michael - The Great Album Debate

ADKIc3mAnX said:
The whole thing from beginning to end, but if I have to pick it has to be the Planet Earth/Earth Song part.
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Yes, it was beautiful...I loved TDCAU, Human Nature was very serene....Billie Jean was pretty neat with the LED costumes....

What I think I loved the most about the whole thing was they really brought Michael's message of love and humanity out...They made sure the audience knew that was what Michael was all about...They showed a side of Michael that casual fans and general public aren't as familiar with...I really respected them for doing that in the show...
 
Arklove said:
Yes, it was beautiful...I loved TDCAU, Human Nature was very serene....Billie Jean was pretty neat with the LED costumes....

What I think I loved the most about the whole thing was they really brought Michael's message of love and humanity out...They made sure the audience knew that was what Michael was all about...They showed a side of Michael that casual fans and general public aren't as familiar with...I really respected them for doing that in the show...
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I'm sure Michael would have approved this.


I only wish he would have done this in 2009 than stress himself on the This Is It rehearsals.



The Immortal tour is something I will never forget in my life it's my first music concert/show and I never got to see MJ in person but I'm happy I seen this show.
 
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ADKIc3mAnX said:
I'm sure Michael would have approved this.


I only wish he would have done this in 2009 than stress himself on the This Is It rehearsals.



The Immortal tour is something I will never forget in my life it's my first music concert/show and I never got to see MJ in person but I'm happy I seen this show.
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Yes, I had never seen him live either, so this is the closest thing I'd get...BUT, like Love is magical said, there was a bit of a void without Michael there...But I guess that's to be expected...Either way, it was a great tribute to him, I think he would have been very proud of this :)

P.S. I was gonna edit to add that I loved Smooth Criminal/Dangerous too :lol:
 
I'm going in October, but it's at the 02... I had tickets for This is It, which will obviously make it hard, I just can't imagine it, but I'm sure that it will be good.
 
I have a thought, if anyone here frequently visits but doesn't post, is it safe to assume that they are not here to discuss the songs, more to get files off the internet that prove a point of what most of us believe, that Sony, or whoever did this have in fact screwed over not only the Michael Jackson fanbase, but the man himself.
 
Can't wait for this at the 02, the seats I have are just 2 rows behind where I would've sat at This Is It.....very surreal but it will partly heal the wound of never seeing him live :)
 
Deniro UK said:
Can't wait for this at the 02, the seats I have are just 2 rows behind where I would've sat at This Is It.....very surreal but it will partly heal the wound of never seeing him live :)
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I dunno what's worse, having seen him live years ago, then this show, or not having seen him live at all but just seeing this show.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I dunno what's worse, having seen him live years ago, then this show, or not having seen him live at all but just seeing this show.
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To be honest probably seeing him live years ago, nothing can top that and I think if you've seen him before you're more likely to miss his presence on stage than someone who has only watched videos :)
 
Deniro UK said:
To be honest probably seeing him live years ago, nothing can top that and I think if you've seen him before you're more likely to miss his presence on stage than someone who has only watched videos :)
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I've seen him in front of my eyes in front of me for more than 2 hours. He was dancing, singing and looking at me because I was among those who were in the first row... After living that, nothing can replace those magical moments.
 
anyone interested in a long post from me in regards to my overall take in this situation...

if no one is going to read it I'm not going to write it :p
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I dunno what's worse, having seen him live years ago, then this show, or not having seen him live at all but just seeing this show.
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Deniro UK said:
To be honest probably seeing him live years ago, nothing can top that and I think if you've seen him before you're more likely to miss his presence on stage than someone who has only watched videos :)
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BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I've seen him in front of my eyes in front of me for more than 2 hours. He was dancing, singing and looking at me because I was among those who were in the first row... After living that, nothing can replace those magical moments.
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Agreed with Deniro. Bumpy, you would miss his presence on stage very much. If you decide to go to the Immortal show, then think of it as a tribute show - a Cirque tribute show and don't expect to get the high energy only Michael could radiate.

I may sound very silly here. But, the Bucharest DVD has me on the edge of my seat more so than the live Immortal show.

Dont get me wrong. The Immortal is great. It's very well done.

@ivy, I don't see your epic long post in the last three pages? When did u post?
 
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@Love is Magical: questionmark is missing after Ivy's first sentence...;D

@Ivy: Always! But mine first...:D



source: http://michaeljacksonbeat.blogspot.com/2009/04/whats-scoop-on-michael-jacksons-new.html

What Wil.I.Am Has Said

On The Rolling Stone Magazine November 2006

For a month we probably talked three times a week. He'd be like, "I need you to dig deep inside! Do something that's unprecedented!" He'd hum a little melody over the phone or something. Eight song sketches were conjured out of phone conversations, then we met up in Ireland for a week and finished three ideas. We tracked one song--the running title is "I'm Dreamin'."

He just said, "Great melodies." In January we'll spend a month together. I want it to sound like Off the Wall for today. He's been really open to ideas. But as far as his vocal abilities are concerned, he's still killing everybody.

Billboard.com(Jan. 2007)

Man, he still sings like a bird. He could go anywhere. I think we have a real opportunity to do something here. It's either gonna be really big or nobody's gonna care. Ain't no middle ground on this one.

Times Online(Aug. 2007)

[Jackson's] voice is still incredible. It’s not about crazy beats that are going be here today and gone tomorrow, but melodies that will stay for a lifetime.


MTV Germany(Sept. 07)

About Jackson's new studio album-Melodies, it's all about the melodies. About the melodies and the kind of grooves you will play 10 years from now - Anticipate 10 years from now.

November 2007 Interview

Wil.I.Am-The stuff is awesome.
Reporter-when will the album be finished?
Wil.I.Am-I don't know. Mike...Mike is ahh...He's really like... The fine-tune king. Whenever he says 'go'.


Let's Hear From Neyo

Radio Interview(Dec. 07)

Asked what he did for Michael Jackson
Neyo-I can't talk about it. They won't let me. They, you know...He wants the world to be shocked. They said, let it be known that your working with him, but you can't give no song titles, you can't go into detail. And out of respect for the King, I gotta(stops talking)...That's real respect right there.
Asked when it's being released.
Neyo-I'm not sure. He's taking his time on it and being extra extra picky, you know. This is gonna be a big album for him-So he's taking his time, yeah.
Asked how many songs he submitted.
Neyo-I've submitted a bunch of songs, we have conversations about it but I don't know exactly what he's gonna use.

New York Times Mag.(July 2008)

Working with MJ?
Yeah, Michael's putting together a new album, and I'm helping him out with it. He said he had a very high appreciation for my appreciation for melody. His music is all about the melody and that's the only sort of real direction he gave me: 'Just make sure the song is as melodic as possible. I want to get back to that.'


Digital Spy(August 2008)

You know, he's never told me he didn't like something and not given me a reason as to why. I've been working on some songs for his new album and if he doesn't like something he'll explain to me why he doesn't like it. He'll say, 'I just think the melody could be better' or 'I think that a stronger lyric could go here'. We haven't actually gotten the opportunity to work in the studio yet. As of right now it's all phone calls and emails and mp3s and I'm not really allowed to say anything about it.

September 08 Interview

Michael's new album has to be amazing. This album needs to be better than 'Thriller'. He wants killer melodies. I've already submitted some songs but we have no idea when it's coming out. He keeps putting it off. Michael is very nervous as he knows he's the underdog and people want him to fail. It's tough when all eyes are on him. as for me, My hands were shaking like never before. But the great thing is that I get to work with my idol and he is really cool.


Other Collaborators


RedOne(May and August, 2008)

Honestly, I’m not allowed to talk about Michael at all. I just love him. I’m a big fan of his. There’s something going on, but I can’t talk about it.

The studio, it’s incredible. The sound is amazing and so is Las Vegas. I love Las Vegas. We get a lot of peace of mind in Las Vegas. It’s very nice. It feels good working in Vegas. It’s very convenient, so close to L.A. It’s like a dream world that helps you musically and creatively.


It's not like it's a secret, it's just that nobody knows when the album is being released. When it comes to Michael, I'm not allowed to talk about the recording, but I can say he's unbelievable, honestly the best that music has ever known, the ultimate star, artist, musician. Every other star I work with, I tell them I'm working with Michael Jackson, and they're like 'Oh, my God!' And when I tell him, he's so humble and polite, he's like, 'Oh, thank you.'


Michael is such a perfectionist in everything he does, every detail is perfect. It's all ear candy Me and Akon were watching him work in the studio, laughing like little children. He is a super nice and polite guy. I was shocked when I had dinner with him, he is so knowledgeable about so many things, a real business man, and very intelligent.

The Album is very melodic. Very pop. I have no idea when his album will be out. He works with a line of different producers.

From Michael Jackson's Camp

Humberto Gatica(June 2009)

"Let's see how it goes, because the new Michael Jackson album is going to be amazing, but is also requiring a lot of work and is perhaps too ambitious. He takes a long time working on the songs and doesn't know if he should work during his free days between his shows, or wait to see if he will regain his popularity thanks to his stage comeback."


EAR CANDY, you read?....
 
love is magical said:
I may sound very silly here. But, the Bucharest DVD has me on the edge of my seat more so than the live Immortal show.
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This is so true! Any of his videos, performances, appearances...His magic just resonated throughout the whole world...Just so powerful...
 
This is what I think. I don't care if you HATE our opinion. Sure, people hack and obtain the tracks illegally, but the fact that I EXPRESS my opinion has caused the video to be removed. A vast majority of Breaking News videos are not removed but I just simply uploaded Breaking News with Vitas looking like he's singing the song. I simply expressed MY OPINION about the tracks and hence it was removed. What hurts you from my opinion?

It stings, but you have to bear it. It's called freedom of speech.

What I'm trying to say is, almost if not all of my experiences appear to be manual takedowns. Even a mere piano cover of WATER has to be deleted? There's some piano versions of KYHU, Monster and BN but those aren't deleted! The only reason is because they are on the Michael album and that allows for it. What's so wrong about letting people listen to WATER on the piano? When Hold My Hand leaked there was a freakout but sooner or later there were several remixes.

What else would Eddie and James do at home? Search up and take down vids of the songs they wrote?

Some people say that Cascio tracks are not removed because of pitch shifting but that is not true. Those are only typically done by people who want to upload the entire Michael album or those who want to show the lyrics.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, this is not directed at believers or doubters but towards those kinds of people who are so easily offended by something like that.
 
Deniro UK said:
To be honest probably seeing him live years ago, nothing can top that and I think if you've seen him before you're more likely to miss his presence on stage than someone who has only watched videos :)
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You are so right bout that -seeing michael preform live on stage is just simply breaktaking and spectacular. Its a moment in my life that i will never forget although i was so young (12yrs old) i can still remember some bits of the night, and they will never leave my memory or heart ever
 
I understand your point of view Ivy, I also understand how it must be for a believer.

Sometimes I still debate with myself thinking “How on earth this sweet, quiet, loyal, loving Cascio kid could do such a thing, how can they have the courage to create 12 fake songs like that??” I understand the views of a believer BUT we still have no valid proof MJ worked on those songs.

Is not like we only see the trees but not the forest Ivy, we don’t focus in words alone, or the vibrato alone. The whole voice, the humming, the classics JM characteristics are in these songs. And even if some of us can’t be 100% sure of that, we can’t deny the amazing similarity.

In the end (in my opinion) it doesn't t matter anymore who started this debate or the doubt, or if it was implanted in our brains.
It doesn’t matter because is still here. The Jacksons didn’t make comparisons of the words, the vibrato, etc. We doubters did that. These doubts grew even bigger when the other songs leaked.

And I disagree that these doubts are illogical / irrational.
Is not irrational to think people can betray you, even in your family (Latoya anyone?). Is not irrational to think that companies would prefer money or not wasting time instead of artistry (it happens all the time), is not irrational to make comparisons with other singers to make our point.

What’s irrational about all that? I still don’t know.

By the way, I still want to know what the believers think of 1 Bumper’s question.

“given the fact that Michael loved what he did, recording music, songs, etc, if Michael had the time to record 12 songs (= a whole album) in a matter of months in a friend's home studio, how many dozens of songs (= albums) did he record in his/a professional studio in a matter of years?”


Is not about challenge you guys, (at least not on my part) it's only because I want to understand how this fits in your conception.
Thank you if you are going to answer :)
 
It is interesting that you should mention one's personality, because I have wondered as well, how an individual's personality would affect the way they react to the Cascio songs. To be politically correct, this is not to detract from anyone's views but I do somewhat believe, that an individual's personality does affect the way in which one processes the information they receive during this debate.

The information in this case can be varying. It may involve, for instance, the Estate's statement, the assertions of several parties (the Cascios, Teddy Riley, the Jacksons, etc.), or the views expressed by others in their accessment of this debate. Whichever side of the debate it may be, we do have a tendency to accept the information that fits our logical view of the situation and reject whatever does not fit this logical view.

Generally, rationality and logic are very well respected in debates, whilst emotional responses are constantly frowned upon (unless in the case where the discussion is filled with emotional 'Feelers'). In fact, one could even go as far as to accuse another's listening experience as an emotional response and hence, unreliable. At which point in time, the only way in which this individual's claims can be regarded as credible, would be if his listening experience was stamped with a seal of approval called "Rational", as in the way we put so much faith in credentials, titles, awards, achievements and such.

This is a world ruled by rationality, but rationality in itself is flawed because it has a tendency to follow a single perspective, and disregard all others either intentionally (as they do not fit the single-view) or unintentionally (as rational-based arguments can only serve a single argument at a time). For instance, it is rational not to hire disabled people. After all, why should a company go through all the expenses of having to re-equip its facilities to suit the disabled, when it is more cost effective and less time consuming to hire a similarly skilled but able-bodied individual? However, it is also rational to hire disabled people. After all, if the company wishes to promote its image as a socially responsible organisation, why not?

It is rational to put one's full reliance on the Estate's statement because the statement is official.
It is not rational to rely on the Estate's statement because it is incomplete, or the views mentioned within are unverified.
It is rational to put one's faith in Teddy Riley's views as he worked with Michael before.
It is rational to consider the reaction of Quincy Jones to the Cascio songs, after all, he has worked with Michael before.
It is rational to rely on the views of two of the best forensic musicologists.
It is not rational to rely on the assertions of "two of the best forensic musicologists", if those views are not backed up by a certified report.

It seems both believers and doubters have played the rational and logical card, although in different wordings, I might add. Point of the matter is, no matter how logical or highly rational one's arguments may appear to be, they are constantly flawed by their microscopic perspective on the whole situation. There is also the case whereby the assumptions made in these rational arguments are unverified.

But after all these rational and logical views are said and done, what about the irrational listening experiences of individuals? Are they to be disregarded because they are not stamped with seals of approval, called "Rational"? It is at this junction where, in my opinion, the debate ends up going round in circles because, whereas one party relies purely on "rational" external information, the other relies on "rational" external information as well as "irrational" internal information (as in the case of the doubters questioning certain vocal aspects of the Cascio songs' vocalist).

Why is it that certain individuals prefer to rely on their own intuitions, while others prefer to rely on the assertions provided by others? In my opinion, it could be the effect of each debater's own personality, affecting the amount of reliance they place on their intuition, as well as their preference for logical thinking or feelings of the moment.

Does this answer the debate? No. Does this make one individual's argument better than another? To be politically correct, no. What it does answer, in my opinion, is why the doubters or believers can never seem to argue, nor agree on the same ground. Whereas the believers seem to argue that the doubters are fooled by their own feelings or by flawed intuition (planted seeds of doubt, hate for the Cascios, reliance on audio comparisons and hearing, etc.), the doubters seem to argue based on their intuition (tonal qualities, vibrato, snorts, accent, etc.).
 
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