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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Edit: Seen both videos before.. (sorry double post).
Frankyboy5 said:
although I don't believe it there is a possibility that overprocessing CAN cause a vibrato to go all goaty,

listen to this remix of Always by Erasure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KbOBSgKUxQ

Original version does not have this "goating"

That said, "All I Need" has substantially less goating yet I find that track to sound the most like Jason, especially if you take in the possibility the tracks were up-pitched. I think although something was done to the singer's voice (ie adjusting equalization or something to make the voice sharper and less "mellow") I still think it's not enough for it to "sound like" Michael.
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Isn't the original much slower? If you speed it up, you'll get a fast vibrato in most songs with vibratos.
 
Justthefacts said:
Charles Thompson is he not the same guy who called Michael a Mother f----- when he did not get a chance to met him? Said Michael was gay kept going on and on about Michael's hair being a wig like it was his only purpose in life was to state the oblvous and even went so far as to call Michael's children nordic in other words white. Same guy?
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Probably is the same guy . Also is the same guy who wrote this and made lots of people understand what happened in 2005 and why MJ was innocent.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-thomson/one-of-the-most-shameful_b_610258.html
 
Justthefacts said:
Well that makes everything else he said OK... :scratch::smilerolleyes:
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No, probably it doesn't but because i saw lots of people saying only negatives things regarding him, i thought that someone should mention that he has written some pretty amazing articles regarding MJ and the allegations and basically defending him. You know, for the purpose of being objective. If you want to judge or dismiss his view on the Cascio songs and their authenticity based on negative comments that he has done about MJ, then go ahead,it's your right. Peace and love :)
 
Pentum said:
If you call it BS and that he never saw such thing - you will still believe Sony has proof it's Michael like they claimed they have? They just said it, never showed it. They also just said their analysis said it's MJ, but never showed it. And we need this - just as much as we need CT's analysis, if not even more.
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I never said "he didn't saw such thing". I said probably the alleged "producer" isn't a producer and that it wasn't a "professional vocal analysis" and probably it wasn't that strong.

I believe Sony and Estate because
- they released the songs even there's controversy involved. Logically they need to be counting on something that they will be protected against lawsuits and being removed as executors.
- they mentioned it on 2 official statements. Meaning that if not true they would even put themselves under more trouble.

So yeah I'm looking to actions.

As Sony released the songs despite the protests from Jacksons family and the fans, I'm thinking that they are indeed confident in their research related to authenticity.
As this alleged vocal analysis is not released, I'm thinking that there's an issue with either professional or analysis or 100% part. If indeed it was a "professional vocal analysis that showed 100% Malachi", there would be no need to hide it and only show it to some people.
 
I am afraid I will have to terrorize you again and I am going to ruthlessly attack you so hard that people will have to call the ambulance, the firemen, the police, the psychologists and the UN blue helmets presided by Qbee (who's afraid of nuclear war between us).


ivy said:
I never said "he didn't saw such thing". I said probably the alleged "producer" isn't a producer and that it wasn't a "professional vocal analysis" and probably it wasn't that strong.
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Do we know anything for a fact about those analyses be it done by SONY/Estate or by anyone else? I still haven't seen any reports, nor parts that have been analysed, nor anything else. We can only speculate based on SONY's/Estate given word.


ivy said:
I believe Sony and Estate because
- they released the songs even there's controversy involved. Logically they need to be counting on something that they will be protected against lawsuits and being removed as executors.
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"The opposite of expected" strategy. Let's assume the tracks are fake, they (or only a few people) know it and they want to make people believe they're genuine. Their strategy wouldn't be any different especially because they are completely legally covered and unattackable as the songs have been registered and copyrighted under MJ's name without any physical trace. So, assuming they're fake, why not release them?

So, choosing to believe THEM only because they occupy the chairs of the officials deciding what is genuine or fake doesn't mean they are not questionable or reliable.

ivy said:
- they mentioned it on 2 official statements. Meaning that if not true they would even put themselves under more trouble.
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Of course, whichever strategy they choose, releasing or not, their statement will always be official. But official does not equal right thing to do or the ultimate truth. We can see every day many examples in different areas how officials mislead people into believeing many things, yet, a few years after we discover everything was done out of their own interest going as far as use some unorthodox practices.

ivy said:
So yeah I'm looking to actions.
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I know some good Jackie Chan movies :D

ivy said:
As Sony released the songs despite the protests from Jacksons family and the fans, I'm thinking that they are indeed confident in their research related to authenticity.
As this alleged vocal analysis is not released, I'm thinking that there's an issue with either professional or analysis or 100% part. If indeed it was a "professional vocal analysis that showed 100% Malachi", there would be no need to hide it and only show it to some people.
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They are especially confident in being untouchable as there os no physical trace or proof.
 
ivy said:
I never said "he didn't saw such thing". I said probably the alleged "producer" isn't a producer and that it wasn't a "professional vocal analysis" and probably it wasn't that strong.

I believe Sony and Estate because
- they released the songs even there's controversy involved. Logically they need to be counting on something that they will be protected against lawsuits and being removed as executors.
- they mentioned it on 2 official statements. Meaning that if not true they would even put themselves under more trouble.

So yeah I'm looking to actions.

As Sony released the songs despite the protests from Jacksons family and the fans, I'm thinking that they are indeed confident in their research related to authenticity.
As this alleged vocal analysis is not released, I'm thinking that there's an issue with either professional or analysis or 100% part. If indeed it was a "professional vocal analysis that showed 100% Malachi", there would be no need to hide it and only show it to some people.
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I have the feeling he means TPI-master's comparisons, which were posted on here and which he heard (those are very convincing to me, btw).

And yes, when he talks about professional vocal analysis by a European producer, I have something else in mind. I think of waveform analysis or something in that direction when I hear that.

Bummer
 
I too initially felt that he's mentioning TPIMaster comparisons but exaggerating them as professional vocal. Then the second time around he said it was a European producer with the necessary equipment which made it sound a lot like a waveform analysis and not audio comparisons. and there have been some waveform analysis on maximum jackson by a person in Greece, however they weren't conclusive and limited in nature , they were similar yet different at the same time and no one could conclude it one way or another. So there could be a lot more such comparisons which is like that - similar but yet different - and that could alone explain the reason that the person won't go public with them.

Also as we discussed here, no vocal analysis is perfect, so getting a 100% Malachi or 100% Michael is impossible.
 
ivy said:
I too initially felt that he's mentioning TPIMaster comparisons but exaggerating them as professional vocal. Then the second time around he said it was a European producer with the necessary equipment which made it sound a lot like a waveform analysis and not audio comparisons. and there have been some waveform analysis on maximum jackson by a person in Greece, however they weren't conclusive and limited in nature , they were similar yet different at the same time and no one could conclude it one way or another. So there could be a lot more such comparisons which is like that - similar but yet different - and that could alone explain the reason that the person won't go public with them.

Also as we discussed here, no vocal analysis is perfect, so getting a 100% Malachi or 100% Michael is impossible.
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The Greek person was Geso and she's a woman. Not sure she's a producer, but who knows? lol.

Reason for not going public could also be, the threat of copy-right infringement and the consequences of that. So it all has to be kept 'behind the scenes'.
The illegally used material in the comparisons is also a reason why these comparisons maybe never can be used in the courtroom. They are obtained illegaly. But I'm not sure about that.

And your last sentence is right, but we never saw a detailed explanation of the analysis of the Estate (how they came to that conclusion), so I'm curious about a professional analysis by 'the other side' and to what conclusion they come and why.
 
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shelly_webster said:
What are the TPIMaster comparisons?
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they are comparisons that TPIMaster made that show the similarity between the voice in cascio tracks and jason malachi song

for example: a portion of monster compared to a portion of jason malachi song like "runner up"...the same voice

i don't know if it is OK if i posted them here or not...
 
tidus72000 said:
they are comparisons that TPIMaster made that show the similarity between the voice in cascio tracks and jason malachi song

for example: a portion of monster compared to a portion of jason malachi song like "runner up"...the same voice

i don't know if it is OK if i posted them here or not...
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All the released material is allowed to post.
 
in that case,if anyone wanted it just PM me and i will take care(7a3ml ma3ah el salema)
 
That fake Malachi twitter account has been very active lately, claiming Paris ain't real MJ's daughter and that he has no management at all. Also, that tweet about Jason going global came from that account, he's even using the same "Dangerous" background picture right now.
http://twitter.com/#!/Jason_Malachi/status/3581442579763200
Why the hell is someone pretending to be Jason Malachi, thats just weird. Are we absolutely sure this account is fake?
 
Willy said:
That fake Malachi twitter account has been very active lately, claiming Paris ain't real MJ's daughter and that he has no management at all. Also, that tweet about Jason going global came from that account, he's even using the same "Dangerous" background picture right now.
http://twitter.com/#!/Jason_Malachi/status/3581442579763200
Why the hell is someone pretending to be Jason Malachi, thats just weird. Are we absolutely sure this account is fake?
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A lot of people pretend to be Michael Jackson's daughter Paris Jackson.


They might have a multi personality disorder so I won't make fun of them but I hope they find help someday.
 
StellaJackson said:
Are you really comparing me with the people who accused Michael of child molestation. If so then I don't think you should be here. That is a horrible thing to say. I can say I believe the songs are fake if that's what I believe. I don't automatically have to go to court. I don't have time, legal support or money to do such a thing.
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you're no different than those who see MJ as a child molester. You offer no compelling proof yet you expect people to side with you just like those who think MJ was a child molester.
 
Tom Clark ? @tomclarky
@CEThomson Fair enough, i have no idea about how voice comparison works. Can it still be acuarate even if the voice has been altered?

Charles Thomson ? @CEThomson
@tomclarky Absolutely. They compared the acapalla vocals from all three Cascio tracks to MJ, then to Malachi. Perfect match to the latter.


--------------

so apparently it's a comparison of the 3 tracks so the leaked songs should not be an issue in regards to releasing it.

however he's wrong about even if altered it would be accurate and that it would give perfect result.
 
Are you really comparing me with the people who accused Michael of child molestation. If so then I don't think you should be here. That is a horrible thing to say. I can say I believe the songs are fake if that's what I believe.
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I think the comparison is that you are making a claim without hard proof and acting like it's the truth.

Now you'll reply as " I don't hear Michael , I hear Malachi and that's enough".

For some people that accused Michael , the clothes he wore, the makeup he had, the kids he hang with was "enough" evidence to think Michael was guilty. And today even that Michael found innocent in a court of law there are people that believes him to be guilty.

It's a thin line between believing something and that something turning to be an accusation without proof.
 
ginvid said:
That is the whole point. people do not have this information as per what I wrote. Therefore, to bring this to a court, especially as the lawyer said, if SOny could show all they did to prove it was MJ and this was known beforehand, then it could be considered malicious. So to tell people who do not have absolute proof to go to court could very well open them up to being countersued if Sony so wished to take that step.
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In order to win this malicious lawsuit, sony will have to prove:
a) that a lawsuit brought by any fans with regards to the Casio tracks was instituted without any reasonable and probable cause
b) that it was due to a malicious intention

That will be difficult because:

a) Despite Sony taking steps to ensure the authenticity of the recording they are still doubt over the authenticity of the tracks. the fact of the matter is there is still some disconnect in MJ voice in those tracks and so it's NOT unreasonable to challenge Sony on this in the court of law.
b) Sony here will have to prove that fans knew in advance as a fact that the recording was MJ and yet deliberately went ahead with the lawsuit to cause harm to sony. That will be a problem because 1) it's NOT public knowledge that the Casio recordings are MJs. You said it yourself : no side has proof that it's was MJ or not MJ. 2) if fans bring the lawsuit in good faith i.e honest intention or belief that they have been conned by Sony regardless of the outcome, then Sony cannot claim malice here.
 
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Pentum said:
Edit: Seen both videos before.. (sorry double post).
Isn't the original much slower? If you speed it up, you'll get a fast vibrato in most songs with vibratos.
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Yes it's slower. Still it's just a point. One possiblity is if someone doesn't hold the note long enough, they stretched it and faked the vibrato, like "she's looking for a job and a finer place to stay" so they stretch the "aaayyyy" and use a snipper to "stay-i-i-i-i-i-i-i" but then again, who would do that?

Some have noted Monster's vibrato is impossibly fast, even in the "unprocessed" slow "demo".

Still this vibrato sounds like it can easily be duplicated, even by a noob singer who can't vibrato. It's just skipping your throat.
 
passy001 said:
you're no different than those who see MJ as a child molester. You offer no compelling proof yet you expect people to side with you just like those who think MJ was a child molester.
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This is such a lame comparison of a MJ's fan to a child molestation accuser. (And ADKI, thanking this kind of post is just as lame as writing it yourself).

First, no fan should be insulted because of this Cascio mess, as fans are not the ones who triggered it, second you don't treat a MJ fan in such a way.

Now I could do the same to you and say that you are no different than Tom Sneddon who is an official representing the law and the interest of people and who officially reported that he had official proofs MJ was a paedophile. You are no different than people believing the official version of the "facts".

And if one day there was a lawsuit in which it would be proven that those songs were fake, just like the people still believeing Tom Sneddon's official version despite the lawsuit, you'd still believe SONY's official version. So yeah, indeed you'd be the same as people believing the official version that MJ was a paedophile.

SONY's official proofs (no trace whatsoever) is indeed as weak as Sneddon's official proofs (no trace whatsoever) and case, yet you choose to believe them.
 
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BUMPER SNIPPET said:
This is such a lame comparison of a MJ's fan to a child molestation accuser. (And ADKI, thanking this kind of post is just as lame as writing it yourself).

First, no fan should be insulted because of this Cascio mess, as fans are not the ones who triggered it, second you don't treat a MJ fan in such a way.

Now I could do the same to you and say that you are no different than Tom Sneddon who is an official representing the law and the interest of people and who officially reported that he had official proofs MJ was a paedophile. You are no different than people believing the official version of the "facts".

And if one day there was a lawsuit in which it would be proven that those songs were fake, just like the people still believeing Tom Sneddon's official version despite the lawsuit, you'd still believe SONY's official version. So yeah, indeed you'd be the same as people believing the official version that MJ was a paedophile.

SONY's official proofs (no trace whatsoever) is indeed as weak as Sneddon's official proofs (no trace whatsoever) and case, yet you choose to believe them.
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I said that the way that some people are treating this is similar to the people who attacked MJ calling him a pedophile with no proof.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
I said that the way that some people are treating this is similar to the people who attacked MJ calling him a pedophile with no proof.
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And I say that it is completely uncomparable and absolutely vague. This is a third-grader-Sarah Palin-syndrom logic. I demonstrated that I could easily compare to the people who believe the official version only because it is official. In other words according to your own logic you are no different than people believing Tom Sneddon because he was on the official side of the "facts".
 
ITS NOT THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We got 12 SONGS WE CAN HEAR WITH OUR OWN EARS!!!! DID WE HAVE A TAPE OF MJ **** WITH KIDS!?! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

STOP IT! STOP comparing this with the pedophilia case!!!!!
 
Pentum said:
ITS NOT THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We got 12 SONGS WE CAN HEAR WITH OUR OWN EARS!!!! DID WE HAVE A TAPE OF MJ **** WITH KIDS!?! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

STOP IT! STOP comparing this with the pedophilia case!!!!!
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You win I mean I said it was similar and since in 05 MJ was called so many bad things with no proof what do ever and now some fans are accusing Eddie Cascio, James Porte, Jason Malachi, John Branca, Sony, Epic Records with no proof what so ever so I guess there is a huge diffrence.
 
^^Yeah, but Michael presented proof that showed otherwise and was eventually found innocent. Something which Sony/The Estate + 'The Snuggle Bunnies' didn't!

But still, that was a pretty messed up thing to say... Grow up people! We're all MJ fans and we all love him and his art. There's no need to compare us with power abusing, evil corrupt racists who want to see MJ in jail.
 
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