Michael - The Great Album Debate

[StellaJackson]

If I say something and change my mind then that's up to me. You don't like it? Tough. What I said wasn't rude that's for sure. It was something I decided against saying after the fact as I felt in hindsight it was too personal. It was actually nothing to do with you anyway Ivy. You just assumed. It was some info about a friend of Jason's. Stop acting so high and mighty. People edit posts lots on MJJC, are you going to call them rude too? Get over yourself.

 

[ivy]

If I say something and change my mind then that's up to me. You don't like it? Tough. What I said wasn't rude that's for sure. It was something I decided against saying after the fact as I felt in hindsight it was too personal. It was actually nothing to do with you anyway Ivy. You just assumed. It was some info about a friend of Jason's. Stop acting so high and mighty. People edit posts lots on MJJC, are you going to call them rude too? Get over yourself.

watch your tone. All I wrote as "what you wrote?" - express my curiosity and "fyi - this is rude"- to show that deleting all the post before I can read wasn't that nice.

My post wasn't personal, it was calm and in neutral tone and yours include personal attacks and serious tone problem. The next time I receive such reply aimed to me in such a personal format - from anyone -, I will report it.

Please everyone realize that there could be other opinions than yours - in every subject, you aren't required to agree with it but you can be respectful when expressing your disagreement. or is it too much to ask?

Isn't it polite to delete a post as fast as you can if you realize it was unnecessary and rude, though? I'm not jumping to defend anyone, but I saw nothing wrong or rude about that. If you made a post with a racial slur or something or broke a rule and you quickly realized the error of your ways and erased with a "said too much" sort of thing, that's understandable. And I thought mods could read edits? They can't? Or is it because you're not a moderator of the Controversy forum?

Eh never noticed you were senior admin now, my bad! You can of course read edits then?

everybody does edits and there are no issues with edits , why there would be? We all make mistakes, want to make additions. corrections or take some stuff out. It's only normal. My point was about deleting the whole post. I find that not good etiquette. Why? Because this is a discussion forum and you are discussing with other people. If you are going to address a post to someone at least give them the chance to read the gist of it (again I'm not talking about edits).

Furthermore all I did was to write a personal take on the situation and it didn't deserve this tone and attacks and curse words as reply. but on the other hand I'm not surprised to see that some people on this thread cannot accept that people can have different opinion than they do and not feel threatened by it. and they feel like they need to hate me in every situation because I don't share the same opinion with them on Cascio songs.

For example Dear Stella could have responded to me saying " Ivy you got it wrong, I just deleted personal information about Jason, my post wasn't aimed to you at all" to solve my curiosity and not so good feeling in a nice and civil fashion but noooooo , multiple people need to respond to me with "shit", "what the hell", "get over yourself", "stop acting high and all mighty" personal attacks because they need to hate me and they cannot separate anything about me from Cascio songs. A simple look to my posts show that this tone and anger in the replies is unwarranted.

 

[teli-mj]

So i was listening to Keep you Head up and Monster today. There is no way in the world that it is MJ the one singing on those songs. Eddie Cascio should be ashamed of himself for doing what he did.

 

[azsummergirl]

it's not like I'm forcing him to rewrite it.
Wanna try something? What about if I wrote negatively about every single one of you on this thread and then edit all of my posts within 3 minutes by "edit: never mind said too much". Let's see how that one works, huh !

knock yourself out.

i don't chime in to "defend every doubter". first off, this is a forum, so if you don't want people to chime in, take it to DM. i only voice my opinion when i think something is wrong or really whacked out. Like calling someone out for editing a post.

 

[Arklove]

Great Debate Thread - Happiest Place On Earth

 

[ivy]

knock yourself out.

i don't chime in to "defend every doubter". first off, this is a forum, so if you don't want people to chime in, take it to DM. i only voice my opinion when i think something is wrong or really whacked out. Like calling someone out for editing a post.

and are you okay with your tone in that reply?

furthermore "call someone out" means to challenge them. I merely wrote a personal opinion in 3 words that I personally find such deletions as rude in a "for your information" format. There was no challenge. There was even no need to respond to it, it was a footnote.

Your posts of "sue me" or stella's posts of "stop acting all high and mighty" etc are calling someone out and challenging them.

and as I wrote before if I misunderstood Stella's intentions a civil person would have explained it in a calm tone, without the need for curse words and personal attacks.

Great Debate Thread - Happiest Place On Earth

ehehehe not a happy place but certainly one interesting place. I learn so much on this thread and my evaluations change. I'm not sure if I want to elaborate on that though, given how touchy people are.

 

[dam2040]

Great Debate Thread - Happiest Place On Earth

 

[Dorian]

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[kreen]

So i was listening to Keep you Head up and Monster today. There is no way in the world that it is MJ the one singing on those songs. Eddie Cascio should be ashamed of himself for doing what he did.

And you should be ashamed of yourself for accusing a man of a crime without proof. All of you Cascio haters, if you have so much evidence, if your comparison videos are so convincing, if your ears are so trustworthy, how about launching a class-action lawsuit? Or at the very least forwarding all of that info to the media, so they inquire about it? The last option is neither expensive nor difficult. And don't tell me, "it would be useless". That's being lazy, or admitting you don't have any faith in your own evidence. At least TRY it. Do it for Michael.

 

[IvoDT]

What I said was disrespectful? You said you'd be certain you were talking to Frank Cascio from hearing his voice. I asked if you'd be certain you were hearing Michael. For almost every fan they'd be able to say "Yes."

I have said many times that I doubted from the first line of Breaking News but I later reasoned it out and I have also said I couldn't tell Let Me Let Go from a Michael Jackson song, but after studying the vocals over a year I think I know them a bit better!

I didn't mean to be "highly disrespectful", just to make a point.

I'd like to reply to this comment.
You see, Aniram, not everyone thinks the same as you do. If you needed a year to study Malachi's Let Me Let Go to finally be able to magically hear the difference than I can safely say/assume you have problems with hearing MJ's voice aswell and I would not call out on other people's hearing, In my honest opinion. =)

But what I really wanted to comment on was your second post:

Aniram: Well I just keep thinking about how no one ever doubts when a real Michael song leaks. It's only out of the Cascio bunch and I really doubt it's because of the word "Cascio" behind it and the fact that they over-processed a few of the songs. The twelve songs have the raised eyebrows of a large majority of the Michael Jackson community. That is just too suspicious.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since I suck at the quote thing I'll do it this way =D

Ok now, if that would be true, everyone on this world who heard Burn Tonight or KYHU or Stay or whatever song that got released/leaked would think it isn't MJ. But what is the reality?
The reality is that most people... more like almost everyone has no problems with it. They all think it's MJ.
As soon as anyone mentions the whole cascio drama/conspiracy behind it people might jump on the bandwagon. I say let them, but I love first impressions the most instead of jumping on something people don't have a clue about.

And as a reply to Kreen, I agree.
If you guys really want to do something with your "research" then actually do something instead of making comparison video's that you guys think is proof but actually is not. Inform people/the media, get together with all the doubters and start a lawsuit, I don't mind what, but it should be better than insulting each other here in this forum.

 

[love is magical]

Sigh. :sigh:

 

[Arklove]

Sigh. :sigh:

I know ....double sigh :sigh:

 

[Aniram]

I'd like to reply to this comment.
You see, Aniram, not everyone thinks the same as you do. If you needed a year to study Malachi's Let Me Let Go to finally be able to magically hear the difference than I can safely say/assume you have problems with hearing MJ's voice aswell and I would not call out on other people's hearing, In my honest opinion. =)

I agree, but I'm not sure if I was calling ivy out on her hearing when she was the one who said with confidence that she'd be talking to Frank on the phone. There has been a lot of arguing about how you can even tell and how different voices sound and all this... it was worded strangely to me so I pointed it out.

It also makes me wonder things like, how close is ivy to Frank Cascio exactly? So much that she would know his voice on the phone?

Yeah, I thought Let Me Let Go was MJ for a while but I thought it sounded weird and I had hear about Malachi but it had left my mind until later. Because I heard those songs back in 2007 and remember some of the controversy.

However, you know I've also said a hundred times that I said Breaking News sounds like Let Me Let Go and I was mocked. Yes, I was confused at first hearing Malachi because they sound similar, but it's like switching from Pepsi to Coke, you think "oh it just tastes like cola" but after a while you notice the differences. In my opinion.

 

[teli-mj]

And you should be ashamed of yourself for accusing a man of a crime without proof. All of you Cascio haters, if you have so much evidence, if your comparison videos are so convincing, if your ears are so trustworthy, how about launching a class-action lawsuit? Or at the very least forwarding all of that info to the media, so they inquire about it? The last option is neither expensive nor difficult. And don't tell me, "it would be useless". That's being lazy, or admitting you don't have any faith in your own evidence. At least TRY it. Do it for Michael.

Will you lend me the money to do it?If so then tomorrow i'm starting the lawsuit. And i'm laughing at you actually going moral on me. Weren't you the one who was repeatedly saying that MJ didn't write a single song in Invincible or other cd's and he infact had other people writing songs for him and taking credits that he didn't deserve? Didn't you do basically the same that you are accuse me of doing? Speculate about things and in an even worse way? Weird love and admiration you have about MJ and his music man, really weird and strange. As for the lecture, save it.

I hear what i hear and what i hear is not MJ. If you hear MJ in those songs, fine. Enjoy them and have a good time. I personally, as a person who admire MJ, love his music, respect him as an artist, will not tolerate that those jokes of a songs to bge associated with his name.So i will continue to spread the word that those songs are fake since that is the only thing i can do.

As for Eddie, i won't stop to claim that he backstabbed his fried till the day he show us actually proofs that it is Mike in those Cascio songs.

 

[Chamife]

Sigh. :sigh:

I know ....double sigh :sigh:

triple sigh and :banghead:

 

[kreen]

Will you lend me the money to do it?If so then tomorrow i'm starting the lawsuit.

I'm not talking about money. Consolidate all of your evidence in a single, clear, comprehensible presentation, and send it to the media. It costs nothing, and all the research is basically done already, thanks to threads like this one . I&#8217;ve often done this in other fields.

Get as many people as you can to send the info as a group; ask « celebrity » doubters to add their names. Gee, I almost wish I were a doubter; it would be a great project to organize.

 

[Arklove]

triple sigh and :banghead:

Ladies...I think we need a couple of these :cheers: and :wine: Sexy wine, that is

 

[teli-mj]

Will you lend me the money to do it?If so then tomorrow i'm starting the lawsuit. QUOTE]

I'm not talking about money. Consolidate all of your evidence in a single, clear, comprehensible presentation, and send it to the media. It costs nothing, and all the research is basically done already, thanks to threads like this one . I&#8217;ve often done this in other fields.

Get as many people as you can to send the info as a group; ask « celebrity » doubters to add their names. Gee, I almost wish I were a doubter; it would be a great project to organize.

Send them to the media huh? Get justice for MJ thought the media? I think you are playing with me Kreen and i don't like it.

 

[Pentum]

I've already sent out everything to the media last year and last summer. No help. No point.

 

[love is magical]

Ladies...I think we need a couple of these :cheers: and :wine: Sexy wine, that is

:lmao:Let's partay!!! Let's dance. Let's shout. Shake your bootay to the ground.

 

[Jesta]

:lmao:Let's partay!!! Let's dance. Let's shout. Shake your bootay to the ground.

Woo!!!!

 

[dam2040]

Ppppppaaaarrrrrrttttttyyyyyy! :dancin:

 

[Jesta]

We need a full song to leak for harmony to be (albeit temporarily) restored and to have something positive to talk about... Who feels good about leaking the Hollywood demo? Or the People of the World demo? Actually I asked my Japanese teacher to translate the lyrics of People of the World so I could tweak them to sound more naturally English.

 

[Aniram]

I've already sent out everything to the media last year and last summer. No help. No point.

I thought it was strange on CNN's sister network HLN during the trials they had a death hoax believer on and right when they mentioned Sony the host cut them off and said, "Okay let's leave Sony out of this." and then went to commercial quickly after.

"Leave Sony out of this"??? I think it's an area the media doesn't really want to touch.

 

[ivy]

I thought it was strange on CNN's sister network HLN during the trials they had a death hoax believer on and right when they mentioned Sony the host cut them off and said, "Okay let's leave Sony out of this." and then went to commercial quickly after.

"Leave Sony out of this"??? I think it's an area the media doesn't really want to touch.

I think I already covered this but let me tell it again briefly.

In USA accusing people with actions of moral turpitude - including fraud - is automatic defamation. If you pay attention when even referring to people on criminal trials media would say "alleged", "charged" before the accusations.

The reason that host stopped the hoax believer Sharon was that she started naming people by saying Sony. When Latoya was on the view Whoopi stopped her mentioning the names as well. Simply put in real life you can't really go around accusing people of criminal acts without proof - that would hold up in a court.

Media had already mentioned the "controversy" by writing what Jacksons say and what Estate say. If you want them to go further than that you need to give them some sort of objective evidence about the fraud.

So as Kreen said the goal should be objective hard proof and then you can fight your case in the media and in court.

 

[teli-mj]

I thought it was strange on CNN's sister network HLN during the trials they had a death hoax believer on and right when they mentioned Sony the host cut them off and said, "Okay let's leave Sony out of this." and then went to commercial quickly after.

"Leave Sony out of this"??? I think it's an area the media doesn't really want to touch.

I think you are right...

 

[kreen]

"I've already sent out everything to the media last year and last summer. No help. No point."

Who did you send it to in the media? You have to target people and institutions that have an interest in those things. Also, you have to prepare a convincing, professional-looking file. You have to organize yourselves into a group with a name, and get some "important" backers, such as that journalist guy someone mentioned earlier, or Joe Vogel. It has to be done in a serious manner.

Personally, I'd start with contacting serious journalists and editors from music magazines or websites such as, say, PitchFork or Mojo. You have to show that this is not about MJ per se, but more about authenticity in the recording industry and respect for artistic content. ABSOLUTELY downplay the whole "Justice for MJ" aspect : MJ fans are considered far and wide to be obsessive, half-crazy worshippers of their idol, so downplay that aspect and present the whole thing the way you would if it were about the Beatles or the Rolling Stones or James Brown. Also, insist on the idea of "evidence" : show that when the story broke originally, there was only suspicion, but that now, after much research and detective work, evidence has been found. Embed in the file the most convincing audio comparisons with Jason Malachi.

It's all in the presentation and who you send it to.

 

[ivy]

"I've already sent out everything to the media last year and last summer. No help. No point."

Who did you send it to in the media? You have to target people and institutions that have an interest in those things. Also, you have to prepare a convincing, professional-looking file. You have to organize yourselves into a group with a name, and get some "important" backers, such as that journalist guy someone mentioned earlier, or Joe Vogel. It has to be done in a serious manner.

Personally, I'd start with contacting serious journalists and editors from music magazines or websites such as, say, PitchFork or Mojo. You have to show that this is not about MJ per se, but more about authenticity in the recording industry and respect for artistic content. ABSOLUTELY downplay the whole "Justice for MJ" aspect : MJ fans are considered far and wide to be obsessive, half-crazy worshippers of their idol, so downplay that aspect and present the whole thing the way you would if it were about the Beatles or the Rolling Stones or James Brown. Also, insist on the idea of "evidence" : show that when the story broke originally, there was only suspicion, but that now, after much research and detective work, evidence has been found. Embed in the file the most convincing audio comparisons with Jason Malachi.

It's all in the presentation and who you send it to.

Agree.

I would also tone it down. As far as I can see in some instances how people approach to this situation is over kill with criminal allegations, calling boycotts, labeling people betrayers and so on. Putting pictures of malachi and goats is both childish and kinda obsessed. It's important to remember that the people in media probably aren't as much invested as we are in regards to Michael related issues so rather than scaring them away to think that they got contacted by a crazy obsessed people, it's wiser to tone it down.

I would have also approached this like a legitimate concern , a question that burns in your mind rather than an over aggressive absolute fraud / fake claim. Media in my opinion would be more likely to pick such approach and if "the question" made the rounds you would be more likely to receive an answer. People generally do not respond well to accusations against them in a positive way.

As the saying goes "you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar"

 

[love is magical]

We need a full song to leak for harmony to be (albeit temporarily) restored and to have something positive to talk about... Who feels good about leaking the Hollywood demo? Or the People of the World demo? Actually I asked my Japanese teacher to translate the lyrics of People of the World so I could tweak them to sound more naturally English.

Lol... New leak in the new year would be great. Btw, thanks for the new year gift on FB. You are so thoughtful. Sorry, I couldn't reply you sooner. I've been very busy lately.

 

[Jesta]

Lol... New leak in the new year would be great. Btw, thanks for the new year gift on FB. You are so thoughtful. Sorry, I couldn't reply you sooner. I've been very busy lately.

You're very welcome I'm happy you liked it! I loved the pictures of Mike in cultural garbs, and I had to use them somehow!