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Michael - The Great Album Debate

What do you guys think the reaction from fans would be if Fall In Love, Water and Ready 2 Win were released in their current form on an MJ album?
 
StellaJackson said:
What do you guys think the reaction from fans would be if Fall In Love, Water and Ready 2 Win were released in their current form on an MJ album?
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I would HOPE that these songs would be the ones to break the camel's back...And, subsequently, if they're believers, really, REALLY make them question what they're hearing on all the other songs...
 
Arklove said:
I would HOPE that these songs would be the ones to break the camel's back...And, subsequently, if they're believers, really, REALLY make them question what they're hearing on all the other songs...
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I hope no more Cascio tracks ever see the light of day, but then on the other hand, I wish they would release those songs because there would be hardly any "believers" left.
 
StellaJackson said:
What do you guys think the reaction from fans would be if Fall In Love, Water and Ready 2 Win were released in their current form on an MJ album?
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Well, some believers will find more excuses and will farfetch it to such an extent that they won't be able to differentiate between Barry White's and MJ's voice, saying it was Michael when he had a sore throat singing in a keg and experimenting a studio built-in in a deep well.
 
StellaJackson said:
I hope no more Cascio tracks ever see the light of day, but then on the other hand, I wish they would release those songs because there would be hardly any "believers" left.
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I don't know...I mean, look at the reactions when Breaking News was premiered...It seemed that everyone had the same negative, confused, angry reactions...Yet, a lot have changed their minds and now believe the songs to be real. Maybe the same thing would happen again if these songs (especially Fall in Love!!) are released...It's sad and unbelievable...But you never know :(...I see it almost as if people are just accepting this as his 'new voice' or something like that...So used to hearing this strange, alien voice completely devoid of everything we've ever known as MJ's voice...You know what I mean?
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Well, some believers will find more excuses and will farfetch it to such an extent that they won't be able to differentiate between Barry White's and MJ's voice, saying it was Michael when he had a sore throat singing in a keg and experimenting a studio built-in in a deep well.
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No no, it's all down to the "processing".

Arklove - I think people were taken in by the Estate's statement (taking it's word so to speak) and just couldn't accept the reality. In the same way that people choose to believe Michael is alive because they can't accept his death, people choose to believe it is actually Michael singing these songs.
 
StellaJackson said:
No no, it's all down to the "processing".

Arklove - I think people were taken in by the Estate's statement (taking it's word so to speak) and just couldn't accept the reality. In the same way that people choose to believe Michael is alive because they can't accept his death, people choose to believe it is actually Michael singing these songs.
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Well yeah..I guess they'd just accept the songs as MJ...That's what makes this so easy to get away with...Taking advantage of fans' goodwill...They will continue to do it because they've gained the fans' trust with the statement the first time around...No one has sued...No one has talked...Everything has quieted down...So it's easier just to accept it...
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Check the addendum to my long post, I've already explained it. But I also said that Michael did it too in his songs:

Wanna be startin' somethin', etc. It's quite common in the U.S. English.

However, as I already said, JM does it systematically in all of his songs on his albums, and the Cascio singer does exactly the same in the song MONSTER. (I haven't checked on the other Cascio songs yet)
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listen to Porte will you? I even heard mornin' undressin' just listening now. It reminds me of our lovely Virginians.


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Did you know that Porte was one of the engineers that worked on Invincible?
 
ivy said:
listen to Porte will you? I even heard mornin' undressin' just listening now. It reminds me of our lovely Virginians.


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Did you know that Porte was one of the engineers that worked on Invincible?
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Porte did not work on Invincible. That is incorrect.
 
i partly agree with stella. for me, personally, i don't need any more vocal analysis b/c it's blatantly (blatantly) obvious who's singing. but maybe some do, so that's cool.

@bumper, as someone who lives in the western US, i gotta say, i don't think michael's accent is similar to a californian. his voice was definitely influenced by growing up in the midwest . . . i don't know, i've always felt that michael doesn't have an accent like anyone, really. whatever it is, i wouldn't say west coast, western, or california. but you would probably know better than me.
 
Sure here's my triple check.

Our member Ali G - who happens to be Michael Prince's daughter wrote this

"James was one of the assistant engineers on 'Invincible', working out of the Hit Factory in NYC !!!!"

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/threads/98924-James-Porte-thread?p=3112618&viewfull=1#post3112618

I double-checked it. This article dated 2002 lists James Porte as an engineer from Hit Factory

Boyz II Men's Full Circle
Engineer: James Porte

Born in Liberia but raised mostly in Tennessee (where he attended Middle Tennessee State's excellent recording program), Porte moved to New York City a few years ago and landed a job as a manager at the Hit Factory and picked up some engineering work along the way.

http://mixonline.com/recording/applications/audio_recording_vocals/

Then the Thank you notes on the Invincible lists a "Jim Porto" among others from The Hit Factory/Criteria Studios Miami
 
ivy said:
Sure

Our member Ali G - who happens to be Michael Prince's daughter wrote this

"James was one of the assistant engineers on 'Invincible', working out of the Hit Factory in NYC !!!!"

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/threads/98924-James-Porte-thread?p=3112618&viewfull=1#post3112618

I checked it. This article lists James Porte as an engineer from Hit Factory

Boyz II Men's Full Circle
Engineer: James Porte

Born in Liberia but raised mostly in Tennessee (where he attended Middle Tennessee State's excellent recording program), Porte moved to New York City a few years ago and landed a job as a manager at the Hit Factory and picked up some engineering work along the way.

http://mixonline.com/recording/applications/audio_recording_vocals/

Then the Thank you notes on the Invincible lists a "Jim Porto" among others from The Hit Factory/Criteria Studios Miami
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Jim Porto is not the same person as James Porte. They have separate bios. And what proof is there that Ali G is Michael Prince's daughter? Most likely people saw Jim Porto, mistook it for James Porte and then ran with it.
 
StellaJackson said:
Jim Porto is not the same person as James Porte. They have seperate bios. And what proof is there that Ali G is Michael Prince's daughter? Most likely people saw Jim Porto, mistook it for James Porte and then ran with it.
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she's his daughter, we check such claims. and don't you think a James Porte and Jim Porto both working at Hit Factory at 2000s a little too much coincidence?
 
ivy said:
listen to Porte will you? I even heard mornin' undressin' just listening now. It reminds me of our lovely Virginians.


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Did you know that Porte was one of the engineers that worked on Invincible?
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I will, but I don't have any of his songs.

azsummergirl said:
i partly agree with stella. for me, personally, i don't need any more vocal analysis b/c it's blatantly (blatantly) obvious who's singing. but maybe some do, so that's cool.

@bumper, as someone who lives in the western US, i gotta say, i don't think michael's accent is similar to a californian. his voice was definitely influenced by growing up in the midwest . . . i don't know, i've always felt that michael doesn't have an accent like anyone, really. whatever it is, i wouldn't say west coast, western, or california. but you would probably know better than me.
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Oh, I completely agree with you. Arklove can confirm it to you. Before I posted anything I already said to her that MJ uses different accents and that he doesn't have one particular accent from one particular region.

For example, in "Much Too Soon" Michael even uses British (or a non-rhotic actually) accent to pronounce the word "better", whereas in some interviews he pronounces it the American way.

When I was referring to Californian accent, I was mainly referring to the possibility that MJ might have had influences from that region, nothing more.
Anyway, my point was that differences between American dialects in general are much more subtle than between UK and US English.
 
ivy said:
she's his daughter, we check such claims. and don't you think a James Porte and Jim Porto both working at Hit Factory at 2000s a little too much coincidence?
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So why has James Porte left the fact that he worked with Michael Jackson off all his bio's? And you could not definatively prove who someone is online.
 
StellaJackson said:
So why has James Porte left the fact that he worked with Michael Jackson off all his bio's? And you could not definatively prove who someone is online.
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because he hasn't "worked" with Michael. Is he credited on the album? No. He's just included in the "thanks" section. If you see the Boyz II Men article he's written as a manager. Also even if we are to agree that "Jim Porto" isn't "James Porte" that Boyz II Men article is an independent collaboration of James Porte's connection to hit factory and Ali G's claim of Porte working at Hit Factory.



And for a person that has come up with "let's place Malachi in New Jersey several years ago" you are really lacking of thinking of ways to confirm people. For example you can always cross- check the daughter's identity with her father or ask other people that you already know to be legit to vouch for them. :) Such as Latoya conforming Paris's twitter account before she got verified. Sometimes people give their personal contact information. for example when I call Frank Cascio and hear his voice, I can conclude that I'm speaking with him. to be clear admins of this forum isn't really limited to "online only" in most instances and Gaz already know many of the people first hand from real life.
 
ivy said:
for example when I call Frank Cascio and hear his voice, I can conclude that I'm speaking with him.
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You could be talking to an impersonator, though. You can tell Frank Cascio's voice when you hear it? Can you tell Michael Jackson's?
 
Aniram said:
You could be talking to an impersonator, though. You can tell Frank Cascio's voice when you hear it? Can you tell Michael Jackson's?
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this is highly disrespectful.

it's not nice to make mockery of people's hearing. Furthermore you are the last person on this thread to question anyone's hearing ability. Perhaps you have forgotten but I remember like yesterday that you wrote you didn't hear Malachi on those songs and believed them to be Michael. So look to your own hearing ability rather then commenting on others.

Arklove said:
Why? Cuz u didn't get to see what he wrote before he edited? :p
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yeah it's etiquette. either stand behind what you wrote or don't write it to start it.
 
ivy said:
this is highly disrespectful.

it's not nice to make mockery of people's hearing. Furthermore you are the last person on this thread to question anyone's hearing ability. Perhaps you have forgotten but I remember like yesterday that you wrote you didn't hear Malachi on those songs and believed them to be Michael. So look to your own hearing ability rather then commenting on others.
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What I said was disrespectful? You said you'd be certain you were talking to Frank Cascio from hearing his voice. I asked if you'd be certain you were hearing Michael. For almost every fan they'd be able to say "Yes."

I have said many times that I doubted from the first line of Breaking News but I later reasoned it out and I have also said I couldn't tell Let Me Let Go from a Michael Jackson song, but after studying the vocals over a year I think I know them a bit better!

I didn't mean to be "highly disrespectful", just to make a point.
 
Aniram said:
What I said was disrespectful? You said you'd be certain you were talking to Frank Cascio from hearing his voice. I asked if you'd be certain you were hearing Michael. For almost every fan they'd be able to say "Yes."

I have said many times that I doubted from the first line of Breaking News but I later reasoned it out and I have also said I couldn't tell Let Me Let Go from a Michael Jackson song, but after studying the vocals over a year I think I know them a bit better!

I didn't mean to be "highly disrespectful", just to make a point.
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when you write "you can tell Frank Cascio, can you tell Michael?" it reads as a mockery of my position on this debate.

and as you said, every fan on this thread would answer it as "yes", it's a given. furthermore you cannot think that after spending this much time on this thread and having a strong opinion and expressing it, I would be doubting myself, it's illogical.

This again strengthens my point that it was a mockery hence disrespectful. or if that wasn't your intention , sorry to say but that was a one useless question to ask - to anybody.
 
Well I just keep thinking about how no one ever doubts when a real Michael song leaks. It's only out of the Cascio bunch and I really doubt it's because of the word "Cascio" behind it and the fact that they over-processed a few of the songs. The twelve songs have the raised eyebrows of a large majority of the Michael Jackson community. That is just too suspicious.

I was just listening to Michael's vocal warm-ups with Seth again and his lovely vibrato at the end each time.. I don't understand how it left him for those recordings.

When I first noticed that shaky vibrato in Keep Your Head Up my heart sank.
 
ivy said:
yeah it's etiquette. either stand behind what you wrote or don't write it to start it.
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holy cow, i didn't know people weren't allowed to change their minds . . . wth?! this is some crazy sh*t. this is an internet forum, we're not running for office here. sometimes you write something and then decide against it.

EDIT: TOOK PART OF WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY OUT. sue me.
 
azsummergirl said:
holy cow, i didn't know people weren't allowed to change their minds . . . wth?! this is some crazy sh*t. this is an internet forum, we're not running for office here. sometimes you write something and then decide against it.

EDIT: TOOK PART OF WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY OUT. sue me.
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it's not like I'm forcing him to rewrite it.

I'm simply pointing out the action to respond back to me in a "too much" format and then deleting it all even before I can read it as "rude". (fyi - I wasn't talking about editing - we all do it). I prefer if people have something to say it - well to say it - especially if they are talking in a negative fashion. You have a problem with it? Then try staying out of my business with Stella.

ps: I understand that you are all doubters in your happy world but this unnecessary ganging up to defend each other on even minor things is so junior high. I'm guessing everyone is an adult here and can fight their own battles. and it's funny that you are having an emotional reaction to the point of using curse words just because I wrote 3 words to express my feelings. the response to me had a smiley to which I responded in a very calm and neutral tone again to express myself. suddenly you need to use "holly cow", "what the hell" "crazy shit" and "sue me". What got your panties in a twist?

Wanna try something? What about if I wrote negatively about every single one of you on this thread and then edit all of my posts within 3 minutes by "edit: never mind said too much". Let's see how that one works, huh !
 
Isn't it polite to delete a post as fast as you can if you realize it was unnecessary and rude, though? I'm not jumping to defend anyone, but I saw nothing wrong or rude about that. If you made a post with a racial slur or something or broke a rule and you quickly realized the error of your ways and erased with a "said too much" sort of thing, that's understandable. And I thought mods could read edits? They can't? Or is it because you're not a moderator of the Controversy forum?

Eh never noticed you were senior admin now, my bad! :D You can of course read edits then?
 
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