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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Barry Gibb did it even without being asked to do it from the very beginning, and I really don't see other reason why the Cascio havn't done it other than they don't have any proof at all actually. So, erasing all tracability doesn't make it legit. The core problem is at the source. What makes those songs legit is their legal release on an official album, not their initial creation which is impossible to prove.
 
qbee said:
Who's words ?
Although I have no respect for Teddy Riley and what he has done to promote himself in the MJ fan base as far as Ive seen Teddy never questioned the validity of any of the casico songs becuase he was also producing Casico tracks for the Album. Can you please link the source for this quote becuase I dont think this is a direct "quote" from Teddy - Where did you get this info from? Thanks
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http://www.twitlonger.com/show/7bmolo
 
ivy said:
I understand that. but consider this. If these songs turn out to be legit all the fault will lie with the people who claimed they were fake and created / continued the backlash.

see? :)
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Well that's never going to happen. But if it did then the fault would lie with those who held on to the proof that they are legit for so long.
 
StellaJackson said:
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/7bmolo
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Thank you
and while I do belive Tayrl is speakign the truth. I dont know if we can attribute the quote directly to Teddy becuase we dont have evidence or a direct quote from Teddy that he himself actually stated that. But many things Teddy stated gave himself away IMO although I cant remember them off the top of my head.
 
qbee said:
Thank you
and while I do belive Tayrl is speakign the truth. I dont know if we can attribute the quote directly to Teddy becuase we dont have evidence or a direct quote from Teddy that he himself actually stated that. But many things Teddy stated gave himself away IMO although I cant remember them off the top of my head.
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Yeah I see what you mean. I've never seen any reason not to trust Taryll on this issue. Teddy however has proven himself to be a liar (melodyne) and doesn't seem to be quite the full ticket any more.
 
qbee said:
Thank you
and while I do belive Tayrl is speakign the truth. I dont know if we can attribute the quote directly to Teddy becuase we dont have evidence or a direct quote from Teddy that he himself actually stated that. But many things Teddy stated gave himself away IMO although I cant remember them off the top of my head.
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"Michael is alive" is one of them.
 
I would rather believe Teddy when saying that those songs are Michael and when he says that Michael is alive, than believe my ears which don't hear Michael and my common sense which is telling me that Michael is dead.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Barry Gibb did it even without being asked to do it from the very beginning, and I really don't see other reason why the Cascio havn't done it other than they don't have any proof at all actually. So, erasing all tracability doesn't make it legit. The core problem is at the source. What makes those songs legit is their legal release on an official album, not their initial creation which is impossible to prove.
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..and I will never believe that those songs are MJ simply because they're on an official MJ album...I simply will not say 'Oh, ok, they MUST be him, even though I don't hear any trace of him on those songs'.....I'm not that naive...
 
I doubt that they will release official proof to the public because why should they the professionals tested, examined and listened to the songs along with the long time producers that MJ worked with and they came to the conclusion that they are performed by Michael Jackson.

And how do we know that they have videos or pictures ?

I mean Michael was Eddie's friend and I doubt Eddie would say "Well MJ let's record you singing this song and the other 11 so we can prove you sung these songs"
 
StellaJackson;3556481 said:
Actually it was Tricky Stewart who produced KYHU. Teddy passed up on it because "it doesn't sound enough like Michael. Michael doesn't swing like that." His words.
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If he said that (It makes perfect sense to me if he did) I agree. Not sure what he means by 'swing', but I have the feeling he could mean the way he would end/sing certain words. Cascio singer sings ‘da-ay’ or ‘wa-ay’ ( sings it in 2 parts) ‘tree-ees’, ‘me-ee’ and ‘rise and do it again’. That 'again' is also bend in a typical way. Maybe Michael did it the same way, but I'm not sure. I’ve never taken very much notice of how Michael bends certain words, cause it sounds logical when I hear it. I plan on listening to Michael's songs and focus on those details and I will do the same with Jason’s songs. Curious if I find similarities. I don’t mean the pronuncation, but the bending /altering /shifting/tempo of keys in those words (what is the musical term for that?)


BUMPER SNIPPET;3556843 said:
Barry Gibb did it even without being asked to do it from the very beginning, and I really don't see other reason why the Cascio havn't done it other than they don't have any proof at all actually. So, erasing all tracability doesn't make it legit. The core problem is at the source. What makes those songs legit is their legal release on an official album, not their initial creation which is impossible to prove.
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Barry must have heard the Cascio songs, and I also believe he (co)wrote or at least worked on the music of 'Best of Joy'. There are so many typical 'BeeGee' melodylines in that song. When I first heard it I immediately thought of The BeeGees. Later on I found out Michael recorded that song in Barry's studio in Miami. So, that even convinced me more. Will try to ask him one day (he doesn't twitter much, lol) and also what Michael is singing exactly in the end, because that's also a mystery to me.
Now..what was it I wanted to say? Oh..yes..maybe I'm seeing things, but what Barry did (showing that footage) and his choice of words that came with it: "Michael and I were the dearest of friends". That felt as a statement to me.
Just thinking out loud.
 
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ADKIc3mAnX said:
I doubt that they will release official proof to the public because why should they the professionals tested, examined and listened to the songs along with the long time producers that MJ worked with and they came to the conclusion that they are performed by Michael Jackson.

And how do we know that they have videos or pictures ?

I mean Michael was Eddie's friend and I doubt Eddie would say "Well MJ let's record you singing this song and the other 11 so we can prove you sung these songs"
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And that would be the same professionals who were being paid by Sony for their services would it? What do you expect the results to be? As fas as I'm concerned, without more details those tests may as well have never happened. And other long time producers and friends who listened to the songs said quite the opposite. They were just left off the statement.

It amazes me how, as Michael fans, we are always telling people not to believe everything they read, yet so many were quick to accept the statement from the Estate at face value. What did people expect them to say?
 
I just wonder when this debate will end. Then the fans can reunite as one group: Believers or Doubters.
 
What do you guys think about the snippet of "Face".

Nearly everyone in the commenting section says it's MJ with someone claiming they've heard it before.

Yet I think the "doggone now" sounds way off, like a girly boyband singer.

It does somewhat go against some ppl's assuptions that "you can have just 3 seconds and identify it as MJ" after they heard "Can't Get Your Weight Off Me"

When we are faced with something odd, like the adlibs of Black Widow, Soldier Boy or Monster, we try to push ourselves not to believe it's MJ. When I first heard Monster I thought the ending was Jason doing the adlibs because he can do that sort of style. When I heard Black Widow, I thought the same thing, but I found the resemblance more remarkable there. I still think Black Widow is mostly Jason doing the ad-libs.

I first heard about Jason when I wasn't as dedicated of a fan. I couldn't really say if he sounded like MJ or not. Then I realized that NO song that MJ did actually had THAT kind of voice when he does his ballads or whatever. I realized that Jason's voice only sounded close to that of when MJ does ad-libs. When I heard Breaking News, I was more aware of MJ's voice having listened to Jason's songs, I thought the same about comparing MJ's voice with this voice in my head while the song played, but whenever I kept doing this, the voice kept reminding me of Jason. Even worse was the way the background vocals answered the singer like "all the news today (they say) we're crazy (celebertay)" which reminded me a lot of Biggerman "he can never measure up (I got so much more to give you)"

There's something that bothers me about the reverb used in the Cascio tracks, it's present in Stay and Burn Tonight, which is quite unlike MJ or most of Jason's songs. It's probably to do with the ratio of the volume the vocal in relation to the background track. The way the voice "hangs" in Room 2 Breathe is very similar to the way it does in Cascio tracks.

A Jason song like Everything To Me sounds less like the Cascio tracks than something like Let Me Let Go or Room 2 Breathe.

Also I looked at the "demo" of Monster and the final version and it appears the speed of the adlibs was also edited. It shows the whole song was sped up already INCLUDING these adlibs. This could mean nothing but then it could suggest Teddy wasn't the one doing the copy-paste.
 
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StellaJackson said:
And that would be the same professionals who were being paid by Sony for their services would it? What do you expect the results to be? As fas as I'm concerned, without more details those tests may as well have never happened. And other long time producers and friends who listened to the songs said quite the opposite. They were just left off the statement.

It amazes me how, as Michael fans, we are always telling people not to believe everything they read, yet so many were quick to accept the statement from the Estate at face value. What did people expect them to say?
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Did the people release statements saying that they think it's not MJ or was this found on the internet ?
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
I doubt that they will release official proof to the public because why should they the professionals tested, examined and listened to the songs along with the long time producers that MJ worked with and they came to the conclusion that they are performed by Michael Jackson.

And how do we know that they have videos or pictures ?

I mean Michael was Eddie's friend and I doubt Eddie would say "Well MJ let's record you singing this song and the other 11 so we can prove you sung these songs"
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every professional that was involved in the testing did not agree, producers like corey rooney sure as hell didnt, and he made his opinion quite clear. it seems like you ignore anything that doesnt fit ur argument.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
Did the people release statements saying that they think it's not MJ or was this found on the internet ?
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Those people openly talked about it on twitter and in interviews. All of the quotes attributed to them can be found several pages back.
 
Coorey Rooney was very angry and even ranted on his FB. Than he just disapeared and recently returned to twitter.
he said when Casico songs were first played. Many in the room including Teddy didnt think it was MJ. anyway thats
what I remember him stating.
 
qbee said:
Coorey Rooney was very angry and even ranted on his FB. Than he just disapeared and recently returned to twitter.
he said when Casico songs were first played. Many in the room including Teddy didnt think it was MJ. anyway thats
what I remember him stating.
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Yeah there are several comments from various folk. Rodney Jerkins said it wasn't him as well.

PS where is this Face snippet?
 
qbee said:
Coorey Rooney was very angry and even ranted on his FB. Than he just disapeared and recently returned to twitter.
he said when Casico songs were first played. Many in the room including Teddy didnt think it was MJ. anyway thats
what I remember him stating.
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Which means they all had the same initial reaction as we did when for example Breaking News premiered.
 
eXceLOfFam1 said:
every professional that was involved in the testing did not agree, producers like corey rooney sure as hell didnt, and he made his opinion quite clear. it seems like you ignore anything that doesnt fit ur argument.
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How am I ignoring anything that does not fit my argument ? I'm just saying what I think would have happened I don't think that MJ's friend would want to ask for so much from 1 person.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
How am I ignoring anything that does not fit my argument ? I'm just saying what I think would have happened I don't think that MJ's friend would want to ask for so much from 1 person.
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Tell me something, you say you hear Michael on those tracks. Now, if it is the case it means that you base your judgment on Michael Jackson's previous songs which serve you as a reference. Could you point out one Michael Jackson's song prior to the Cascio released ones that indicates the striking similarity which will allow us to hear Michael on the Cascio songs?
 
There was some rumors about how Cory Rooney got fired by MJ because he was a spy from Sony... So we can't trust him

Tony Kurtis was one key figure during the beginning of Jason's career. However, the fact that he made claims about how "undoubtedly it's Jason" but later just said "it's my opinion" is suspicious. Then he got trolled over and deleted his account. Jason was like "Tony Kurtis disappears from the internet and..."

I remember in the 2008 radio interview with Jason that he kept mentioning Tony Kurtis producing his songs, but after the first album and MJ's passing there wasn't much about him. Tony Kurtis could be right in that he broke off with Jason due to many conflicts (such as speculating he would be recording the Cascio tracks).

Some people thought TK was insulting Jason for being tone-deaf but this stands. There are people out there who say "Jason has so much talent he deserves more than Jean Walker who is tone deaf". Sure Jean Walker is tone deaf but look at Jason's live performances and he doesn't dance as much.

The only person I would consider most reliable out of these "celebrity doubters" is will.i.am.

I think the "now" in Face sounds quite a bit like Jason but even more "feminine". The "face" part sounds a lot like MJ but it's too brief for me to justify this.
 
"Face" doesn't sound like Michael to me, but I admit I could be wrong. It's only my first impression based on a snippet of two seconds. I'd need to hear more to have a clear judgment.


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Well, relistened again to the snippet and it actually does sound like Michael.

What is sure is that it does not sound like the voice on any of the Cascio track.
 
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Not sure why people question the first voice in the "Face" snippet (the "ooon nooow"). Sounds 100% like Michael to me. No one can sound that close to Michael. The second voice however is too short for me to tell. "Fay!", probably MJ.

This snippet might be just some fanmade shit mixed together with MJ songs though.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Which means they all had the same initial reaction as we did when for example Breaking News premiered.
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They heard it well before us. When the songs were first introduced. Before the over production began to try and clean them up

OMG when I first heard Break News I went on a Hysterical Rant on twitter - I mean I was upset and Livid - I later deleted my tweets becuase they were bad Realy really BAD :) I was so upset I broke down in tears. Becuase we were all waiting so exited and so full of hope to hear Michael again. after 2 bars I started sinking in my chair. I kept listening over and over. I still do somethimes. I hear Michael then I dont then i do then I dont .. I HATE THAT . He is in there somewhere but they really effed up all these songs so bad and added vocals as leads that are not MJ in my opinion to try fill in. I believe Eddie did have MJ vocals he recorded for songs but not enough to finish the songs so they tried to have a sound alike blend in and fill the gaps. Instead of using normal voices for back up they tried to make it sound like MJ. Its just to blatant the pronouciations and timing is all off for me. The vibrato is terrible and reeks though all the casico tracks.

Eddie should have let professionals work with what he had. I think he got greedy and wanted all the glory for himself and the fact that he said he destroyed and erased all masters and demos gives me more doubt. Who in their right mind would do that with MJ tracks. When as a producer he should know they could be reused on other projects or songs. Even if MJ is on the tracks they are so messed up no one will ever know for certain. Its caused so much pain and division in the fan base. I know MJ would hate what these songs have done in his fanbase. Yes he liked controversy but not the kind that hurt or upset his fans like these songs have done. I dont Blame anyone but Eddie Casico for his stupidty in destroying the original vocals and music and for the terrible work he did in trying to produce what ever he did have. I think everyone was caught up in the frenzy and excitement and even though the songs were produced so badly by Eddie and were questionable they all wanted it to be MICHAEL. I even enjoy the songs BN and Monster at times becuase I believe MJ has a part in these songs and his intentions were pure regardless of the mess Eddie casico created. Any way this is just my lame opinion and doesnt mean much in the grand scheme of things. I like to look foward and not back

I never post in here becuase I hate every bit of this. :cry: But now you know how I feel and where i stand. Ive always hinted
but never really took part in here and I probaly wont again. I dont see any point except to rant. That was my rant :)
 
qbee said:
The fact they put 2nds SUCKS - for what GOOD reason would anyone do that. Unless they were trying to scam .. Grrr :(
Pentum Where is this song from might I ask .. I mean what is the history or background of it that we know so far ?
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There have been some rumours saying some people have the song in full, but I don't believe it. Then this snippet leaked on youtube, but it proves nothing.
 
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