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You take a microphone, you sing "test, test, test, one, two, one, two" and at the same time you wave with your arms.
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You take a microphone, you sing "test, test, test, one, two, one, two" and at the same time you wave with your arms.
ADKIc3mAnX
Proud Member
Lol...
wouldn't that also the issues with the Cascio songs?
As for "studio magic" ... well, it's mostly about the takes. He does dozens of them, I suppose. Just like me.If you aren't that good of a singer, you do it a 1000 times and put it all together from different takes. That's a real PITA and you wish you'd just be able to deliver properly.
This for sure is a huge part. Live there's just one take, and - especially at All that you need you have in you - he f*cks up big time. Sounds horrible at the beginning.
does his own songs has multiple takes?
yep silent room. which is also missing in the Cascio basement
sorry no idea about specific US law. While I was working back in my home country with the musicians I remember it like "4 chords" - probably it's different in every country. Also if a certain note arrangement - melody is common it's hard to establish plagiarism (I mean some notes just go together and they are commonly used)
Pentum a little help please. There was a user on max-jax and was posting origins of Malachi songs , remember? Some songs aren't original songs but songs that Jason cover. Am I remembering it right?
this is "let me let go" dated back 2006 by Chris Trousdale
his myspace puts the release date to 2005
http://www.myspace.com/christrousdale/music/songs/let-me-let-go-26709547 - better version at this link
If I'm not mistaken Jason didn't release his version till 2007.
so why would they copy a song that Jason covered? it just doesn't make sense. everyone treats these songs as "Jason's songs" but mostly they are "covers Jason did". aren't they?
I'll wait for Pentum to confirm this but if I'm correct and "Let me let go" isn't actually Jason's song , nothing would help me to understand the similarities or "malachi contributed that's why they sound similar" theory as the original song had nothing to do with Jason.
It's never too late. If they turned out to be fake , they could have take action.
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
I read somewhere that a few notes ( a matter of two or three) were sufficient to musicologists to take the case to court.
I didn't say they copied it. I said "Let me let go" and "Monster" are similiar as in "Monster" was inspired by "Let me let go" to the point that some notes were same.
It's not the origin of "Let me let go" that bothers me, but the origin of "Monster".
They could have, but then they also should have gone through a long court battle without a single trace of proof taking the risk to lose the case, damage their reputation and consequently lose even more money.
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
I thought this article might be useful, from Wikipedia,
Music plagiarism is the use or close imitation of another author's music while representing it as one's own original work. Plagiarism in music now occurs in two contexts – with a musical idea (that is, a melodyor motif) or sampling (taking a portion of one sound recording and reusing it in a different song). For a legal history of the latter see sampling.
<tbody> </tbody>
[edit]Overview
Any music that follows rules of a musical scale is limited by the ability to use a small number of notes. The 7 note diatonic scale is the foundation of the European musical tradition.
No artist denies the existence of, and relation between, musical genres. In addition, all forms of music can be said to include patterns. Algorithms (or, at the very least, formal sets of rules) have been used to compose music for centuries; the procedures used to plot voice-leading in Western counterpoint, for example, can often be reduced to algorithmic determinacy.
For these reasons, accidental or 'subconscious' plagiarism is possible. As well, some artists abandon the stigma of plagiarism altogether. Shostakovich perhaps commented sarcastically on the issue of musical plagiarism with his use of "We Wish You a Merry Christmas," an instantly recognizable tune, in his Prelude No. 15 in D Flat, Op. 87.[SUP][1][/SUP]
According to the U.S. copyright law, in the absence of a confession, musicians who accuse others of stealing their work must prove "access" — the alleged plagiarizer must have heard the song — and "similarity" — the songs must share unique musical components.[SUP][2][/SUP] though it is difficult to come to a definition of what is "similarity".
Even if a piece of music is in the public domain and thus not protected by copyright, it may still be plagiarism to copy a portion (or all) of it without attribution. There are many changes in the creation, content, dissemination and consumption of popular music in the 21st Century.
[edit]Musical ideas
Plagiarism is relevant to different musical styles in different ways.
In classical music, software exists that automatically generates music in the style of another composer, using musical analysis of their works. Most notably, David Cope[SUP][3][/SUP] has written a software system called "Experiments in Musical Intelligence" (or "EMI") that is capable of analyzing and generalizing from existing music by a human composer to generate novel musical compositions in the same style. EMI's output is convincing enough to persuade human listeners that its music is human-generated to a high level of competence.
According to Theodor Adorno's highly controversial view, popular music in general employs extensive plagiarism: variety in the musical material occurs in details whereas genuinely original musical content tends to be sparse when compared to classical or art music.[SUP][4][/SUP]
[edit]Sampling
Main article: Sampling (music)
Sampling has been an area of contention from a legal perspective. Early sampling artists simply used portions of other artists' recordings, without permission; once rap and other music incorporating samples began to make significant money, the original artists began to take legal action, claiming copyright infringement. Some sampling artists fought back, claiming their samples were fair use (a legal doctrine in the USA that is not universal). International sampling is governed by agreements such as the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works and the WIPO Copyright and Performances and Phonograms Treaties Implementation Act.
Today, most mainstream artists obtain prior authorization to use samples, a process known as "clearing" by gaining permission to use the sample and, usually, paying an up-front fee and/or a cut of the royalties to the original artist. Unfortunately, independent bands, lacking the funds and legal assistance to clear samples, are at a disadvantage unless they seek the services of a professional sample replay company or producer.
Recently, a movement — started mainly by Lawrence Lessig of free culture – has prompted many audio works to be licensed under a Creative Commons license that allows for legal sampling of the work provided the resulting work(s) are licensed under the same terms.
[edit]Cases
Most cases of alleged plagiarism are settled out of court. Most artists try and settle for costs that will be less than defending costs. Since the 1850s federal courts have published fewer than 100 opinions dealing with this issue.[SUP][5][/SUP] The Columbia Law School Library's Music Plagiarism Project provides information on many cases over the decades, with a few dating back to the 19th century.
[edit]Successful suits
The following are accusations of plagiarism appearing in notable media:
Music plagiarism is the use or close imitation of another author's music while representing it as one's own original work. Plagiarism in music now occurs in two contexts – with a musical idea (that is, a melodyor motif) or sampling (taking a portion of one sound recording and reusing it in a different song). For a legal history of the latter see sampling.
<tbody> </tbody>
[edit]Overview
Any music that follows rules of a musical scale is limited by the ability to use a small number of notes. The 7 note diatonic scale is the foundation of the European musical tradition.
No artist denies the existence of, and relation between, musical genres. In addition, all forms of music can be said to include patterns. Algorithms (or, at the very least, formal sets of rules) have been used to compose music for centuries; the procedures used to plot voice-leading in Western counterpoint, for example, can often be reduced to algorithmic determinacy.
For these reasons, accidental or 'subconscious' plagiarism is possible. As well, some artists abandon the stigma of plagiarism altogether. Shostakovich perhaps commented sarcastically on the issue of musical plagiarism with his use of "We Wish You a Merry Christmas," an instantly recognizable tune, in his Prelude No. 15 in D Flat, Op. 87.[SUP][1][/SUP]
According to the U.S. copyright law, in the absence of a confession, musicians who accuse others of stealing their work must prove "access" — the alleged plagiarizer must have heard the song — and "similarity" — the songs must share unique musical components.[SUP][2][/SUP] though it is difficult to come to a definition of what is "similarity".
Even if a piece of music is in the public domain and thus not protected by copyright, it may still be plagiarism to copy a portion (or all) of it without attribution. There are many changes in the creation, content, dissemination and consumption of popular music in the 21st Century.
[edit]Musical ideas
Plagiarism is relevant to different musical styles in different ways.
In classical music, software exists that automatically generates music in the style of another composer, using musical analysis of their works. Most notably, David Cope[SUP][3][/SUP] has written a software system called "Experiments in Musical Intelligence" (or "EMI") that is capable of analyzing and generalizing from existing music by a human composer to generate novel musical compositions in the same style. EMI's output is convincing enough to persuade human listeners that its music is human-generated to a high level of competence.
According to Theodor Adorno's highly controversial view, popular music in general employs extensive plagiarism: variety in the musical material occurs in details whereas genuinely original musical content tends to be sparse when compared to classical or art music.[SUP][4][/SUP]
[edit]Sampling
Main article: Sampling (music)
Sampling has been an area of contention from a legal perspective. Early sampling artists simply used portions of other artists' recordings, without permission; once rap and other music incorporating samples began to make significant money, the original artists began to take legal action, claiming copyright infringement. Some sampling artists fought back, claiming their samples were fair use (a legal doctrine in the USA that is not universal). International sampling is governed by agreements such as the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works and the WIPO Copyright and Performances and Phonograms Treaties Implementation Act.
Today, most mainstream artists obtain prior authorization to use samples, a process known as "clearing" by gaining permission to use the sample and, usually, paying an up-front fee and/or a cut of the royalties to the original artist. Unfortunately, independent bands, lacking the funds and legal assistance to clear samples, are at a disadvantage unless they seek the services of a professional sample replay company or producer.
Recently, a movement — started mainly by Lawrence Lessig of free culture – has prompted many audio works to be licensed under a Creative Commons license that allows for legal sampling of the work provided the resulting work(s) are licensed under the same terms.
[edit]Cases
Most cases of alleged plagiarism are settled out of court. Most artists try and settle for costs that will be less than defending costs. Since the 1850s federal courts have published fewer than 100 opinions dealing with this issue.[SUP][5][/SUP] The Columbia Law School Library's Music Plagiarism Project provides information on many cases over the decades, with a few dating back to the 19th century.
[edit]Successful suits
- In March 1963, The Beach Boys released "Surfin' USA". Chuck Berry's music publisher Arc Music sued over what was a note-for-note cover of Berry's "Sweet Little Sixteen", and was eventually granted co-writing credit for Berry, and royalties from the record.[SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP]
- George Martin's score for The Beatles' "All You Need Is Love" contained melodies from several songs thought to be public domain, including "In the Mood," written by Joe Garland and Andy Razaf. While the song was in the public domain, Glenn Miller's arrangement was not and EMI made a royalty payment to KPM publishing in July 1967.[SUP][8][/SUP]
- In 1969, John Lennon was sued by Chuck Berry's publisher Big Seven Music Corp. over the lyric, "Here comes ol' flat-top. He come groovin' up slowly," in the song, "Come Together". In Chuck Berry's song, "You Can't Catch Me", the lyric is, "Here come up flat top. He was groovin' up slowly." In 1973, a settlement was reached whereby Lennon agreed to record three of Big Seven's songs on his next album. Big Seven Music Corp. again sued Lennon for breach of contract, when his next album, Walls and Bridges, contained only a brief snippet of the song "Ya Ya," with the court awarding the company US$6,795.[SUP][9][/SUP]
- George Harrison was successfully sued in a prolonged suit that began in 1971 for plagiarizing the Chiffons' "He's So Fine" for the melody of his own "My Sweet Lord." [SUP][10][/SUP]
- On Led Zeppelin's album Led Zeppelin II, parts of the song "Bring It On Home" were copied from Sonny Boy Williamson's 1963 recording of "Bring It On Home", written by Willie Dixon. On the same album, "The Lemon Song" included an adaptation of Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor". In 1972, Arc Music, the publishing arm of Chess Records, brought a lawsuit against Led Zeppelin for copyright infringement over "Bring It On Home" and "The Lemon Song"; the case was settled out of court for an undisclosed sum.
- Led Zeppelin's song "Whole Lotta Love" contained lyrics that were derivative of Willie Dixon's 1962 song "You Need Love." In 1985, Dixon filed a copyright infringement suit, resulting in an out-of-court settlement. Later pressings of Led Zeppelin II credit Dixon as co-writer.[SUP][11][/SUP]
- Led Zeppelin also paid a settlement to the publisher of Ritchie Valens' song "Ooh! My Head" over "Boogie with Stu" (from their album Physical Graffiti) which borrowed heavily from Valens' song.[SUP][12][/SUP]
- In autumn 1984 and throughout 1985, Huey Lewis sued Ray Parker, Jr. for plagiarism, citing that Parker stole the melody of the song "Ghostbusters" (the theme from the movie of the same name), from Lewis's 1983 song "I Want A New Drug". Lewis dropped the lawsuit after the two parties settled out-of-court in 1995. Lewis had been approached to compose the main theme song for the Ghostbustersmovie, but had declined due to his work on the soundtrack for Back to the Future. It was reported in 2001 that Lewis allegedly breached an agreement not to mention the original suit, doing so on VH1'sBehind the Music.[SUP][13][/SUP]
- An Oasis B-Side, "Step Out", was originally intended for the (What's the Story) Morning Glory? album but was taken off after Stevie Wonder requested 10% of the royalties as the chorus bore a similarity to his hit "Uptight (Everything's Alright)". Instead it was placed as a B-Side on their single "Don't Look Back In Anger". Also, because of this, Wonder, Henry Cosby and Sylvia Moy received credit for writing the song, along with Noel Gallagher. Also the band's single "Whatever" was initially credited as being written by the band's lead guitarist Noel Gallagher. A subsequent lawsuit awarded a co-writing credit to musical comedian Neil Innes due to similarities to his song "How Sweet to Be an Idiot". Oasis were also successfully sued for $500,000 by The New Seekers after the song "Shakermaker" was alleged to have took its melody from "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing".
- In early 2007, Timbaland was alleged to have plagiarized several elements (both motifs and samples) in the song "Do It" on the 2006 album Loose by Nelly Furtado without giving credit or compensation.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] See 2007 Timbaland plagiarism controversy.
- In early 2006, the writers of Lee Hyori's song "Get Ya" were accused of plagiarizing Britney Spears' 2005 song "Do Somethin'". This eventually led Lee Hyori to stop promoting the song and contributed to the failure of the song and its album, Dark Angel.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
- In 2005, Belgian songwriter Salvatore Acquaviva won a judgement against Madonna, claiming that her 1998 hit, "Frozen" had been lifted from his early-1980s song, "Ma Vie Fout le camp". The judge declined to award damages, but did order the withdrawal of all remaining discs for sale and barred the song from airplay on Belgian TV and radio.[SUP][14][/SUP] See Frozen (song): Plagiarism.
- American musician Les Paul was successfully sued for plagiarizing Romanian composer Richard Stein's "Sanie cu zurgălăi" (1937) as "Johnny (Is the Boy for Me)" (1953).[SUP][15][/SUP]
- Clive Edwards vs BMG/Universal/Rondor/19 Management (London County Patents Court, May 2007). Music publishers BMG and Universal settled out of court with songwriter Clive Edwards. Mr Edwards had formally charged S Club 7's songwriters (Simon Ellis and Shep Solomon – NB it is not known exactly which songwriter was charged) with plagiarising his original song in order to create "Don't Stop Movin'". The court order is that both parties uphold a confidential agreement, believed within the industry to involve very substantial sums.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
- A lawsuit filed by Tommy Dunbar and James Gangwer of the 1970s power pop band the Rubinoos alleged Avril Lavigne stole their song "I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend" and reworked it into her best-selling single "Girlfriend." The case was settled for an undisclosed sum in January 2008.[SUP][16][/SUP]
- The Black Eyed Peas were successfully sued by an Ohio disc jockey named Lynn Tolliver, claiming that his song "I Need A Freak" was sampled without his permission in The Black Eyed Peas song "My Humps". Lynn Tolliver won $1.2 million.[SUP][17][/SUP]
- During the mid-1930s, Ira Arnstein became convinced that major pop songwriters had been illegally copying his work. During 1936–46 he brought forth five plagiarism lawsuits though none proved successful.[SUP][18][/SUP]
- In 1994 John Fogerty was sued for self plagiarism after leaving Fantasy Records and pursuing a solo career with Warner Bros. Records. Fantasy still owned the rights to the Creedence Clearwater Revivallibrary. Saul Zaentz, the owner of Fantasy, claimed Fogerty's song "The Old Man Down the Road" was a musical copy of the Creedence song "Run Through the Jungle". A jury found that "Old Man" was not derivative.[SUP][19][/SUP] See Fogerty v. Fantasy.
- In 1993 Killing Joke sued Nirvana alleging that the riff for the latter's song "Come as You Are" was copied from the riff for their song "Eighties". The lawsuit was dropped after the sudden death of Nirvana front-man Kurt Cobain.[SUP][20][/SUP]
- In 2003 Michael Cottrill and Lawrence E. Wnukowski claimed that Britney Spears’s "Can’t Make You Love Me" misappropriated substantial melodic material from their "What You See is What You Get". The court was skeptical on the question of defendant’s access to the plaintiff’s work.[SUP][21][/SUP]
- Ronald H. Selle sued the Bee Gees, alleging their 1977 hit, "How Deep Is Your Love", stole the melody of his own never-released 1975 song, "Let It End". The Bee Gees eventually prevailed after anappeal.[SUP][22][/SUP]
- On December 4, 2008 guitarist Joe Satriani filed a copyright infringement suit in Los Angeles federal court against Coldplay, claiming the Coldplay song "Viva la Vida" includes "substantial original portions" of the Satriani song "If I Could Fly" from his 2004 album, Is There Love in Space?. The Coldplay song in question has received two Grammy Awards for "Song of the Year".[SUP][23][/SUP] Coldplay has denied the allegation,[SUP][24][/SUP][SUP][24][/SUP] which has resulted in further legal action from Satriani.[SUP][25][/SUP][SUP][26][/SUP] On 14 September 2009, the case was dismissed by the California Central District Court, with both parties potentially agreeing to an out-of-court settlement.[SUP][27][/SUP]
- Baltimore songwriter Ray Repp sued composer Andrew Lloyd Webber, alleging the theme song from The Phantom of the Opera was taken from his song "Till You" . In 1998, a jury found Webber not liable for plagiarism.[SUP][28][/SUP]
The following are accusations of plagiarism appearing in notable media:
- The song "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" by Led Zeppelin was thought to be a traditional song and was credited as "Trad. arr. Page" but it was actually written by folk singer Anne Bredon. Since 1990, the Led Zeppelin version has been co-credited with Bredon, who received a substantial back-payment in royalties.[SUP][29][/SUP]
- Coldplay was also briefly accused of copying portions of "Viva La Vida" from "The Songs I Didn't Write" by American alternative band Creaky Boards.[SUP][30][/SUP] Creaky Boards later retracted the accusations and speculated that both songs may have been inspired by the video game The Legend of Zelda.[SUP][31][/SUP]
- A portion of the Bruce Springsteen single, "Radio Nowhere." sounds similar to Tommy Tutone's 1982 hit, "867-5309/Jenny." Tommy Heath's response was "I'm really honored at a similarity, if any, I think there's too much suing in the world now"[SUP][32][/SUP]
- The New York Post reported remarkable similarities between the Red Hot Chili Peppers' "Dani California" and Tom Petty's "Mary Jane’s Last Dance" could turn into a lawsuit. Petty responded in a Rolling Stone interview:
...a lot of RocknRoll songs sound alike. Ask Chuck Berry. The Strokes took "American Girl" [for their song "Last Nite"], and I saw an interview with them where they actually admitted it. That made me laugh out loud. I was like, "OK, good for you." It doesn’t bother me.[SUP][33][/SUP]
- In the bollywood industry, accusations of plagiarism are so high that several websites [2][3] exist solely to archive public accusations, of which very few receive legal attention.[SUP][34][/SUP]
- Søren Rasted (formerly of Aqua) has been accused of copying Kate Bush' Running Up that Hill for a song composed for the winner of the X Factor (Denmark) contest.[4]
- Korean pop artist G-Dragon has been accused of plagiarism by Sony Music, as his tracks "Heartbreaker" and "Butterfly" are similar to Flo-Rida's "Right Round" and Oasis's "She's Electric", respectively.[5][6]
- iTunes has found cases of musical plagiarism using software that automatically identifies a CD's track information when it's loaded, most notably the many instances with pianist Joyce Hatto.[SUP][35][/SUP]
- Led Zeppelin's song "Dazed and Confused" was derived from a 1967 Jake Holmes song of the same name, which had been performed by Jimmy Page when he was with The Yardbirds.[SUP][36][/SUP][SUP][37][/SUP] In June 2010, Holmes filed a lawsuit against the guitarist for copyright infringement in a United States District Court, claiming Page knowingly copied his work.[SUP][38][/SUP]
- The Black Eyed Peas were charged in January, 2010 by Ebony Latrice Batts (known on stage as Phoenix Phenom), claiming that "Boom Boom Pow" is just a copy of her song "Boom Dynamite", which she sent to Interscope Records (the Black Eyed Peas recording company). The suit is ongoing.[SUP][39][/SUP]
Last edited:
Kapital77
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Grent, Bumper, i also catch other Jason song that you can overlap with "Monster":
I've Got What You Want:
0:21
0:41
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dNBU2mm_M8
Monster:
2:07
2:32
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdV5YTpuKIs+
Use a good program and put those parts together, you will hear a really good mix.
I've Got What You Want:
0:21
0:41
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dNBU2mm_M8
Monster:
2:07
2:32
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdV5YTpuKIs+
Use a good program and put those parts together, you will hear a really good mix.
Yes, Many of Jason's songs are covers or copies while the other stuff he has aren't written by him like Bigger Man and You Don't Have 2 Go (we have the writer's demos).wouldn't that also the issues with the Cascio songs?
does his own songs has multiple takes?
yep silent room. which is also missing in the Cascio basement
sorry no idea about specific US law. While I was working back in my home country with the musicians I remember it like "4 chords" - probably it's different in every country. Also if a certain note arrangement - melody is common it's hard to establish plagiarism (I mean some notes just go together and they are commonly used)
Pentum a little help please. There was a user on max-jax and was posting origins of Malachi songs , remember? Some songs aren't original songs but songs that Jason cover. Am I remembering it right?
this is "let me let go" dated back 2006 by Chris Trousdale
his myspace puts the release date to 2005
http://www.myspace.com/christrousdale/music/songs/let-me-let-go-26709547 - better version at this link
If I'm not mistaken Jason didn't release his version till 2007.
so why would they copy a song that Jason covered? it just doesn't make sense. everyone treats these songs as "Jason's songs" but mostly they are "covers Jason did". aren't they?
I'll wait for Pentum to confirm this but if I'm correct and "Let me let go" isn't actually Jason's song , nothing would help me to understand the similarities or "malachi contributed that's why they sound similar" theory as the original song had nothing to do with Jason.
It's never too late. If they turned out to be fake , they could have take action.
Here's the original Room 2 Breath:
[youtube]Au1GXEEIrKM[/youtube]
And here's the original to Tell It Like It Is (no idea how Jason got away with doing a cover with it)
[youtube]KaNCs1GrkHE[/youtube]
There are probably more, which I don't know of.
But still, Monster can be inspired by Let Me Go. Since Jason is the singer of both songs, he might have helped creating Monster and gotten inspiration from it.
Grent
Guests
No, no. You can CLEARLY hear, that the vocals are recorded through a at least decent microphone in an at least decent environment. It's not a mobile phone, it's not a webcam mic. This IS a recording. See, let's say Bruce Swedien is 100% and a mobile phone recording on the subway is 0%. Then a videocamera in a highschool from the distance is 30%. A cheap 40$ microphone plugged directly into the laptop in big bathroom is 50%. But a cheap 80$ microphone with a preamp plugged into a laptop in a basement with some foam on the wall and probably some pillows and sheets, carpeted floor and wallpapers ... this is at least 85% ! The remaining 15% are worlds in regards of professional recording, no doubt. But the difference to a videocamera from the distance at a noisy live-recording is multiple times bigger.
We have to stop making the recording setting responsible. You can do hell of a lot with the equipment and setting you see at that picture, compared to a video camera in a highschool live setting, or a webcam. And a recording taken place in that picture could quite easily be 'fixed' to an acceptable degree to sound decent with some equalizing. You won't change timbre, formants, vibrato, ...
The recording environment was fine! It was ok. Otherwise you could tell from the acapella. A weak recording sounds different than a different person. Now if you go and ask recording engineers, some might say "no way is it possible to record professionally down there", but they have different quality standards. They are situated within the last 15%. They don't want 85, they want 100. But the fact is, embedded in music, enriched by studio effects, few people will find be bothered about a 85% vocal recording.
You mean Malachis? Of course. Just as the Cascio recordings.
yep silent room. which is also missing in the Cascio basement
What? Why? This is not a dark dungeon. You can record in your living room. I know a very successfull german recording artist who does that. The basement is also silent. It's about frequency response, and yes, if the room is empty, it's going to sound dull and boomy. But you can also sing into a pillow, then you avoid boomy, but miss many frequency resulting in a very flat sound. You can do an OK recording in that basement, I assure you.
Yeah, I don't think there are hard rules. It always depends, multiple parameters come together.
You're right on this one. So it might all be a coincidence. No harm in that.
But it seems, they were not united. There also were different opinions ... some obviously couldn't hear that excessive vibrato.
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
I agree.
I know personally this singer who recorded his songs in his living room, who played the music, sang, and did everything by himself.
Check his voice and even effects he used on it. Just brilliant! Listen to the demo snippet "November Rain"
Go to his site and click music, then click with the mouse on the song November Rain and keep the pointer there otherwise the songs stops:
-->>>>>> http://users.telenet.be/dbt-web/MahalRayan/
Plus, "Let me let go" was the song that fooled many people, it would be understandable if the wanted to record something similar.
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
I can record sitting on a washing machine while the centrifuge is on and at the same time burst-shoot with a machine gun, I'd still sound the same (except maybe for my vibrato).
Grent
Guests
:rofl:
Michael recorded 12 songs in the basement sitting on the running washing maschine!
Now THAT clears everything up. Case closed. Please close the thread.
Grent
Guests
to me the origin of the "let me let go" matters and if it's not Jason's song I really do not see how he or they can be inspired by it. Jason didn't have anything to do with it in the first place.
Also if all Jason's songs are covers then he might be able to "help create" songs. Not everyone has the ability to write songs / music.
I really do not see the logic behind it, sorry. As he had nothing to do with the original song, he could have simply inspired by any song out there. It's not like he's bringing his own unique melody.
and perhaps Grent can help answer, those parts in Monster sounding the similar, is that a common melody?
I didn't say it was 100% versus 0% but I'm happy to see that 85% and "The remaining 15% are worlds in regards of professional recording, no doubt." is acknowledged.
again it wasn't making it responsible. and again nice to see that "vocals can be fixed"
The recording environment was fine! It was ok. Otherwise you could tell from the acapella. A weak recording sounds different than a different person. Now if you go and ask recording engineers, some might say "no way is it possible to record professionally down there", but they have different quality standards. They are situated within the last 15%. They don't want 85, they want 100. But the fact is, embedded in music, enriched by studio effects, few people will find be bothered about a 85% vocal recording.
you can even record in a closet
let me be clear about what I meant :
Previously there have been some talks about the quality of these recordings and it was even said they would be ready for a "final release". I disagree. From a professional musicians perspective that home setting will not be equal to a studio setting and any recording from such setting would never be good enough for professional release. For a demo , fine, for putting ideas down, fine, for a background well okay but not a professional final release.
Although I'm not saying it was a terrible environment, it wasn't ideal / perfect as well. I think this is something that should be acknowledged. There could be issues with the vocals and if "recorded in bathroom" is correct, that could be problematic as well. This should also explain why processing on these vocals was warranted.
The end result is another issue.
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Well I don't see the logic as far as relevance is concerned behind the origin of "Let Me Let Go". It does not really matter where Let Me Let Go comes from, but where Monster comes from?
If, for example, I know where Smooth Criminal video comes from, I don't know where the story in which Fred Astaire stars come from. It is irrelevant and not imoportant when wanting to show where Smooth Criminal video comes from.
The melody and the way it has been constructed are like false twins to my ears. The only exception that there is in Monster and that really makes it a big difference is the introduction of rap by 50 Cents. All the rest is like twin sisters sitting back to back and ignoring each other.
I think without professional help you can detect that by yourself when listening to both songs, the same way you can detect Billy Ocean's inspiration in Caribbean Queen (inspired by Thriller, Billie Jean and Human Nature):
[youtube]gPfRuVjt0dM[/youtube]
1) Listen to the background melody - the basic melody is the same as Billie Jean.
2) At 0:48-0:49 you can even hear Vincent Price's laugh (if it's him)
3) At 1:29 "Electric eyes that you can't ignore..." (sounds so much like Human Nature lyrics)
p.s. @ Ivy, regarding the explanation of the shaky vibrato, what about my washing machine while shooting from a machine gun vibrato theory, have you thought about it?
Jesta
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OK, my voice is currently in terrible condition for what is most likely a number of reasons (singing too much/cold) to put the argument of Michael's voice's condition to bed, here's what I've been experiencing:
*I cannot speak in the mornings. It is painful and I literally cannot muster up more than a whisper, so archaic arguments that he was singing in the morning is out if the idea that he had a cold is thrown in there (an ancient argument I know but I wanted to try and and dispel that).
*I can't hit high notes... At all. This actually affects my falsetto more than anything, but my voice breaks when I even try to climb into higher notes. So how "MJ" reached those high notes with a bad voice in those songs is beyond me...
*My voice sounds deeper than usual... But I still have my accent (annoyingly). Because of this, my voice has a bit of a deeper distortion to it, so why "MJ" (for the most part) sounds as high as he presumably would be in other tracks is confusing. Plus my accent is still very noticeable, so why this voice sounds accentless is also confusing.
I know the morning/cold/bad voice argument is VERY old, I just wanted to add my own perspective to it.
*disappears*
*I cannot speak in the mornings. It is painful and I literally cannot muster up more than a whisper, so archaic arguments that he was singing in the morning is out if the idea that he had a cold is thrown in there (an ancient argument I know but I wanted to try and and dispel that).
*I can't hit high notes... At all. This actually affects my falsetto more than anything, but my voice breaks when I even try to climb into higher notes. So how "MJ" reached those high notes with a bad voice in those songs is beyond me...
*My voice sounds deeper than usual... But I still have my accent (annoyingly). Because of this, my voice has a bit of a deeper distortion to it, so why "MJ" (for the most part) sounds as high as he presumably would be in other tracks is confusing. Plus my accent is still very noticeable, so why this voice sounds accentless is also confusing.
I know the morning/cold/bad voice argument is VERY old, I just wanted to add my own perspective to it.
*disappears*
Grent
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Well...hard to say. I would never rely on the base note that much (using c so dominantly in a C-chord). But that's a matter of taste obviously. For Jazz musicians this is a no go.
You didn't. To me it seemed you kind of compared 30% to 85%.
Yes, but it won't sound like a different person. You seem try to use my saying for your purpose.
(I know your answer to that 'No, I didn't use anything ...').you can even record in a closet
let me be clear about what I meant :
Previously there have been some talks about the quality of these recordings and it was even said they would be ready for a "final release". I disagree. From a professional musicians perspective that home setting will not be equal to a studio setting and any recording from such setting would never be good enough for professional release. For a demo , fine, for putting ideas down, fine, for a background well okay but not a professional final release.
85% is ok for final release. Tweak it a bit and you might approach 90%. The thing about recording is the following: you try to record very neutral so that you have the freedom to do anything you want in the end. Is the recording some kind of colored or has natural reverb, your freedom gets limited. That does not mean however, that you can't use the vocal. That color might even be, what you need.
Well, to be honest, I can acknkowledge that, but it has nothing to do with MJ sounding like someone else. Recorded in bathroom is BS. People used such rooms for reverb when equipment was not available or fitting. He might have recorded there, but that is not what we hear on the record. If you record a main vocal in the bathroom, you can't use it. Processing won't make it releasable. Forget about the shower story.
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Do you sound like a prehistorical caveman?
Jesta
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You know what? I kinda do, my voice is extremely raspy... But in that case, shouldn't MJ's have been as well, if that (albeit archaic) argument is used?
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So you kinda sound like a prehistoric caveman and your voice is extremely raspy. That's your usual voice.
And now that you have cold and are a bit sick, I imagine that your voice is even worse than that usual prehistoric caveman voice.
Bathrooms are okay IF you want the reverb. From Motown to many other musicians bathrooms are used for recording as an reverb/echo channel and released such songs (see below).
Did you account for removal of reverb /echo? It's not impossible but the end work wouldn't be very good.
For example this song is bathroom vocals
Girls Aloud singer Nadine Coyle has revealed that she recorded the vocals for a number of tracks from her upcoming debut album in her en-suite bathroom. Coyle, whose debut single which is called ‘Insatiable’ revealed that she originally conceived the song whilst singing in the shower. The vocals were ultimately recorded in a studio but one track from the album; ‘chained’ retains the original bathroom-based vocal.
[video=youtube_share;t24-1wvxflE]http://youtu.be/t24-1wvxflE[/video]
As for me "sounding as another person" is subjective.. as I don't believe that I'm not trying to get anyone to accept that My whole point was "that's not an ideal environment and processing might have been warranted".
Did you account for removal of reverb /echo? It's not impossible but the end work wouldn't be very good.
For example this song is bathroom vocals
Girls Aloud singer Nadine Coyle has revealed that she recorded the vocals for a number of tracks from her upcoming debut album in her en-suite bathroom. Coyle, whose debut single which is called ‘Insatiable’ revealed that she originally conceived the song whilst singing in the shower. The vocals were ultimately recorded in a studio but one track from the album; ‘chained’ retains the original bathroom-based vocal.
[video=youtube_share;t24-1wvxflE]http://youtu.be/t24-1wvxflE[/video]
As for me "sounding as another person" is subjective.. as I don't believe that I'm not trying to get anyone to accept that
My whole point was "that's not an ideal environment and processing might have been warranted".Jesta
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No, I meant that with this cold, I sound like a prehistoric caveman. Normally I have a very high (not squeaky though) voice.
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As for me "sounding as another person" is subjective.. as I don't believe that I'm not trying to get anyone to accept that
Well, I am just curious in your point of view, where does that subjectivity stop? Because at one point there must be things that we commonly hear in all objectivity.
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In your opinion.
well if the discussion was about Michael versus Madonna - yeah that would be objective.
but if the discussion was Michael versus a soundalike that's trying to sound as much as Michael - it'll be a lot more subjective
Jesta
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... Er, OK... in my opinion. My voice is normally (in comparison to everyone I know) pretty high, but with this cold it's a lot deeper, and a lot more unstable/raspy.