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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Lets not think if its Michael's Vocie right now, lets start thinking and pondering these questions:

"How could they think they could get away with it if the tracks are fakes?"
"Do you think they got away with a big crime?"
"How much time would it be until we get real awnsers concerning the tracks"


Should they be really Michael as the believers express, I must ask:
"If they have about 30 unreleased tracks, incomplete tracks...why did they release these and put them through hell during production?"
"Why was it nesscesary told hold evidence from us? Do you think they could be hiding something? Surely anything they have during the creation of the tracks is evidence of how they came to be"
 
Can you leave this thread, please? You contribute nothing to this thread.
 
I'm so busy that it's unbelievable.. I can hardly find time to post.

I was quite happy with Pentum's experiment and if you rememvber it was something we discussed before. I always wondered if one Cascio song was introduced with holding the information that it's a Cascio song , what the reaction will be like. I suppose this is as close as we can get.

As I listened to the song that night (before Pentum removed it) I thought the vocals were "whinny" like you say :) but I also thought that some words (ie: "all" word) was Michael added. I think I saw Pentum say there was no Michael , so then it shows the impersonators ability to sometimes sound like Michael and sometimes don't.

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
I agree on this one. I also posted a long post about audio forensic and the accuracy of recognizing someone's voice. It's practically impossible to be sure 100% whose voice they hear, especially if the voice has been altered by the studio processings, not to mention that we are talking about singing voice here.
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true it's not a perfect science

Indeed people can be easily led to hear one person or another, hence the subjectivity. As Grent said, the officials can lead to believe that we hear MJ's voice on the same level as the non-officials can lead that we hear someone else. I've never denied that. Pentum's game is a good example, because we try to be objective but we can't because we expect to be tricked by the game itself.
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again true. leading is leading regardless of who is doing it.

I know it sometimes angered some of you when I asked "was this your own opinion" question. I was just wondering the effect of leading. I mean I wrote before that probably Pentum is the most knowledgeable about Jason's voice and he comes to an opinion on his own but how about other people? Can they come to that opinion on their own or start hearing what Pentum told them?

@Bumper - I'm curious I didn't see you post, were you able to listen to what Pentum posted and determine accent, pronunciation?


SoCav said:
the reason Pentum did this was to show that apparently quite a lot of people have difficulties distinguishing Michael's vocals from those of an impersonator, both 'doubters' and 'believers'.
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love is magical said:
It shows how easy to fool fans. It also shows how people are easily influenced by others. We are indeed entering into a dangerous territory.
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I think the most important thing to learn from is to realize that voice identification is not that easy, we can be mistaken and there's no sense in seeing a fellow fan as the enemy just because they can't hear what you hear. It also shows us that this controversy is probably will go on for a long time and perhaps never end due to the nature of it.

now mod hat on

let's play nice shall we? I think some people should take a time out, discussion is better to turn back into being a discussion - rather than a back and forth individual conversation , and regardless people shouldn't be rejected from the thread.
 
ivy said:
I wrote before it was not a "morals police" position (legal / illegal , right/wrong) and I guess people didn't understand what I meant.

So if I have to spell it, in an environment where Sony is suing people and sending cease and desists left and right, I'm not touching it.
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You can easily listen to it on youtube as hundreds of people have done.

Were people really fooled by Pentum's clip? How?
 
I didn't remove the clip from Soundcloud like I said. It was removed due to copyright. Not sure from who.
 
ivy said:
I think the most important thing to learn from is to realize that voice identification is not that easy, we can be mistaken and there's no sense in seeing a fellow fan as the enemy just because they can't hear what you hear. It also shows us that this controversy is probably will go on for a long time and perhaps never end due to the nature of it.
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I absolutely agree with you. Voice (especially singing) voice identification is challenging. Unfortunately, whenever there is a "new" Michael Jackson song, which fans have no prior knowledge about, being released or leaked, fans will be skeptical. There will always be questions, like is this song real? Is the editing legit? Is there any uncredited vocal in it? Unless they release the original demo together will some form of back-ups, some fans will always have quesitons on the authenticity. To me, the loss of confidence is the most significant damage caused by the Cascio tracks controversy.

Some people say let's move on. The album is released a year ago. It's just three songs in a little-known posthumous album. But, as demostrated by Pentum's experiment, the doubts will always be brought up whenever a "new" song surfaces, officially or not.

This controvesy will go on and on.
 
love is magical said:
I absolutely agree with you. Voice (especially singing) voice identification is challenging. Unfortunately, whenever there is a "new" Michael Jackson song, which fans have no prior knowledge about, being released or leaked, fans will be skeptical. There will always be questions, like is this song real? Is the editing legit? Is there any uncredited vocal in it? Unless they release the original demo together will some form of back-ups, some fans will always have quesitons on the authenticity. To me, the loss of confidence is the most significant damage caused by the Cascio tracks controversy. Some people say let's move on. The album is released a year ago. It's just three songs in a little-known posthumous album. But, as demostrated by Pentum's experiment, the doubts will always be brought up whenever a "new" song surfaces, officially or not. This controvesy will go on and on.
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It's just so difficult to move on though...I mean, we've examined every last nook and cranny of this whole issue and we've gotten nowhere....yes, some people have changed their minds, but we still haven't gotten anywhere....sometimes I just wanna give up, but then I think about these songs being a part of his discography and legacy and it just makes me cringe...knowing what they've done to his music...even if it is him...
 
Several years ago, I explained to people who seemed to have difficulties in recognizing MJs voice:
if some people immediately say 'fake', it probably is. Because there'll be hardly any material where some say fake and it indeed is MJ.

That goes with STTR, BG, Escape, and all those wonderful songs we got per internet.

That very same also goes for every Malachi, Sean Walker, ....., Eddie Cascio song.
 
What's your favourite bit about the 'Human Goat' everyone? I've just bought an album of his, It's called 'Michael' you guys should check it out, he's on three of the ten tracks! They're really cool songs written extremely well and they're just awesome! The 7 tracks are OK, but not goaty enough for me :D :D :D :D
 
StellaJackson said:
You can easily listen to it on youtube as hundreds of people have done.
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I already wrote I listened to some of them on youtube. However I can't spend my time non stop searching youtube and I'm not motivated to do so.

Were people really fooled by Pentum's clip? How?
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yes

Pentum said:
I didn't remove the clip from Soundcloud like I said. It was removed due to copyright. Not sure from who.
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I was doing a quick read and just saw "removed" I guess. Don't they send you an email telling who made the copyright claim?
 
ivy said:
I already wrote I listened to some of them on youtube. However I can't spend my time non stop searching youtube and I'm not motivated to do so.



yes



I was doing a quick read and just saw "removed" I guess. Don't they send you an email telling who made the copyright claim?
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They sent two mails, but they didn't say who made the claim.
 
dam2040 said:
What's your favourite bit about the 'Human Goat' everyone? I've just bought an album of his, It's called 'Michael' you guys should check it out, he's on three of the ten tracks! They're really cool songs written extremely well and they're just awesome! The 7 tracks are OK, but not goaty enough for me :D :D :D :D
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I'm really mad!!
7 songs on that album are fake!!
What are they trying to pull off here??

:mat:
 
I know. It's SO frustrating!!! They think they could get away with it? NO. I LOVE A GOAT!
 
If you don't think that these tracks are genuine, Listen to the first few lines of Fall in Love. Case closed.
 
What if we have video evidence of Michael singing the Cascio tracks and its a very acurate look alike?
 
As I'm gathering data for my video I just found out a very small but interesting little thing. This is a bit conspiracy like stuff, so believers: please don't bother.

Monster has insanely fast vibrato speeds. We know the released version is about 6% faster than the demo. But slowing it down from 106 to 100% doesn't quite cut it. Still faster vibrato than on any other Cascio track. So I decided to slow it even further, from 117,5 to 100% (meaning, I assume the released Monster is 17,5% faster than the original concept). This way, we have pretty much the same fast vibrato speeds as on every other Cascio track. But the new Monster's tempo is exactly the same as ......... Privacy.


Note: Value could easily also be 17 or 16.5%, and then the suspected original Monster speed would be slightly faster than Privacy. That's not the point. The point is, Privacy is a pretty slow song. That's the reason I personally don't like it. Monster, also telling a story about paparazzi, could have been designed based on its predecessor's tempo.


So according to the vibrato speed found on Monster, it was probably supposed to be a slow song like Privacy.
 
Grent said:
As I'm gathering data for my video I just found out a very small but interesting little thing. This is a bit conspiracy like stuff, so believers: please don't bother.

Monster has insanely fast vibrato speeds. We know the released version is about 6% faster than the demo. But slowing it down from 106 to 100% doesn't quite cut it. Still faster vibrato than on any other Cascio track. So I decided to slow it even further, from 117,5 to 100% (meaning, I assume the released Monster is 17,5% faster than the original concept). This way, we have pretty much the same fast vibrato speeds as on every other Cascio track. But the new Monster's tempo is exactly the same as ......... Privacy.


Note: Value could easily also be 17 or 16.5%, and then the suspected original Monster speed would be slightly faster than Privacy. That's not the point. The point is, Privacy is a pretty slow song. That's the reason I personally don't like it. Monster, also telling a story about paparazzi, could have been designed based on its predecessor's tempo.


So according to the vibrato speed found on Monster, it was probably supposed to be a slow song like Privacy.
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Its the stuff like this that interets me about the Cascio tracks. :) Thanks
 
Mod hat on

What part of "play nice" and stop conversation between 2 members isn't understood? Next time I'll be giving out infractions.
 
One thing I gotta say, Jason Malachi has worked on his vibrato:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmDn8BNNxjY
Still falls back into old vibrato habits from time to time though. Especially, if he tries too hard or tries to sound like Michael Jackson.

All his older stuff is full of fast vibrato.
On this song, however, it seems, he doesn't try so hard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PFyzsJOUSM
Funny: at this song he sounds the least like Michael Jackson. How come? ;)
 
Grent said:
One thing I gotta say, Jason Malachi has worked on his vibrato:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmDn8BNNxjY
Still falls back into old vibrato habits from time to time though. Especially, if he tries too hard or tries to sound like Michael Jackson.

All his older stuff is full of fast vibrato.
On this song, however, it seems, he doesn't try so hard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PFyzsJOUSM
Funny: at this song he sounds the least like Michael Jackson. How come? ;)
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All That You Need Is In You is an old song.

[youtube]9UiGEaJkMfc[/youtube]
 
I know that video. It's not on his album Critical. So I assume it's newer.
Or is it older? Do you know, what time the video is from?

At least it surfaced in 2011.
Same goes for the studio recording (or was it already there before and got deleted?).

Ok, you're right:
http://www.myspace.com/video/gerard...chi-performance-at-unity-awards-2008/45454313

The video is from 2008.

I really don't know, why he's exaggerating the vibrato so much if he clearly can do better.
 
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