Michael - The Great Album Debate

Except there is not one scrap of evidence that Michael ever recorded these songs, just the word of those who got paid. They all sound identical to a known impersonator who has shown a clear motive by his past behaviour. And there is no known processing technique that changes a voice, including pronounciation, to that extent as a by product. If there is, then I would like someone to take any of Michael's demos or moments where he is singing while out and about (LWMJ) and give it the Cascio vibrato, accent and pronounciation. And why are you prepared to believe a hack like Friedman over the numerous people who have spoken out about the tracks?

Ok, well if it's so obious and absolutely certain the songs are fake, when is that lawsuit going to be filed by you and your friends? You guys stand to make a lot of (ethical) money, become legends with fans worldwide, and maybe even get 15 minutes of fame! Let's do this, and I want in!
 
Why doesn't Katherine or Michaels family do anything about the release of "false" Michael songs? The Jackson family as a whole supports the MJ estate that allowed these songs release.
 
What if:

The Cascio's and Porte wrote songs, wanted MJ to do them. He never did, so they got JM in to record them. They then concluded the tracks were recorded from a time when they could 100% say he was at their house, and bingo, You have 'Michael Jackson' songs. It fits.

Yeah. Except then, it would be a criminal conspiracy, the likes of which can never be pulled off, and can certainly never resist the passage of time, especially when people -- yourselves, and all of the other celebrity doubters -- are on to it. It would also imply that all of the co-conspirators are both both criminals and bastards, two attributes we have no reason to pin on them. Oh, and it would also imply that Eddie Cascio was -- in addition to a criminal and a bastard -- an idiot, because there were tons of other, easier, less risky, non criminal ways for him to make money off Jackson's association with him.

And let's not forget Eddie Cascio, by trying this stunt, would risk his entire future career as a credible songwriter, if he were to be found out.
 
Except there is not one scrap of evidence that Michael ever recorded these songs

According to you. According to the US Copyright Office the songbook contains vocals from Mr. Michael Joe Jackson, vocals that were registered two days after his death. There's no room for an "oh, it's just copy-pasted ad-libs"-theory.


Korgnex said:
The songs were registered on 27th June 2009. However some people get this wrong. On that day the registration was NOT in the bag. At that date it was just an application for the moment, not yet a registration in the bag. As Michael Jackson was no longer with us and as with his untimely death no person was legally authorized to represent him but the not yet constituted MJ Estate with its two heads that couldn't take office at that time, the registration was provisionally invalid (more exact: Eddie and James' work was protected rightfully but not yet Michael's contribution to the songs). It only became valid when John McClain and John Branca took offices and attended to the registration.
Legally there's no need to change the date of registration because the OK from the MJ Estate applies ex post facto (retroactive).

Effective Date Of Copyright Registration
Copyright registration is effective on the day the US Copyright Office receives the appropriate form, copy or copies of the work, and the filing fee from you, until your claim is either refused or accepted.



The registration date (as well as the creation date which is often just a placeholder - as can be seen with many registrations of other songs from MJ where it just says 2009 because the MJ Estate didn't have more concrete data at hand about when a song was actually recorded when they registered the songs) thus doesn't tell much about when the registration was in the bag. It just says that everything they handed in was documented on that day (27th June 2009). There's no way they could fool the MJ Estate because in order to get their approval they had to show everything they wanted to register rightfully on the date of the application.

Applications and fees received without appropriate copies, phonorecords, or identifying material will not be processed by the Copyright Office and are not returned.


As you can see Michael's vocals that were later tested positive had to be included.
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Otherwise they would have to fill another application if that material didn't include "appropriate copies, ... identifying material" for what they claimed it to be (Remember, their application lists MJ with this:
Authorship: sound recording, performance, production, compilation, LYRICS.


Btw, registration with the US Copyright Office usually takes some time, especially when a deceased artist's estate is involved.
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So, basically people don't understand that procedure at all. It's impossible to have a rightful registration within 2 days. The 27th June 2009 is NOTHING but the day of the application FOR the registration. And the MJ Estate which is needed for a rightful registration didn't exist until later.
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I hope more people would understand this...


The registration's part that is associated to Michael Jackson is not valid until the MJ Estate think it is. They have to approve it. The requester cannot register sound recordings as Michael Jackson without the MJ Estate's approval. Until there's no approval that part is provisonally invalid.

Try registering sth as from Michael Jackson and you'll see that your application will be rejected or have you ever seen entries in the US copyright office database that have nothing to do with Michael Jackson, yet list him? Nope...

The Michael Jackson Estate certainly cannot be unaware of it as the US Copyright office demands confirmation from all involved copyright contenders, so they automatically contacted the MJ Estate once it existed. We don't know when exactly the registration was in the bag. It certainly took several months.

As has been explained several times here: Both co-executors of the MJ Estate have full power together and one can't do anything without the other (e.g. compliance, permission, contestation, acquiescence etc.). So that story about one of them trying his best not to publish them (as claimed by Taryll) can't be true as they wouldn't have to prove the songs would be fake, it would have been sufficient if there wouldn't be any confirmation for their authenticity.
 
@Calisto: We were talking at cross purposes. I didn't pay attention to your key feature of "negative talk", I was talking about direct accusations all the time.

Then you need to read what people say more carefully. Again, taking your own advice.

Korgnex said:
Your list will always remain exaggerated as long as people like John McClain or the kids don't actually say anything about the songs.

It's not an exaggeration when I tell you from the get-go that a portion of the list is based off secondhand reports. And to be clear, numerous sources (from both sides of the debate) have said the same thing about John McClain and Michael Jackson's two eldest children being against the Cascio tracks.

Korgnex said:
So far it's just 5 people who have made direct accusations and that was my point.

And along with them, many other people who have said the songs don't sound like Michael Jackson, which was my point.

Korgnex said:
Trying to have a rational discussion with me is hopeless? Very nice words.

Before seeing your recent post, I went ahead and removed the "hopeless" comment, as I feel it wasn't appropriate in retrospect.

Korgnex said:
Funny, when people like me explain things about US Copyright Office registrations, where is the rational discussion then? It's missing as this is a sore spot for all of the conspiracy theories due to the fact you always have to come up with ideas how they could have cheated their way through the legal obligation to produce proof and that it's somehow a "perfect crime" that no-one can disclose but everyone of you knows all about it.

Hey, Kreen and me had that discussion! Feel free to check out our posts regarding the "Song Book" and "ASON" registrations here, here, and here.

Korgnex said:
P.S. I cannot be wrong about McClain as long as he never talks about the songs. If you want to believe in hearsay, than this is up to you. And to just give you an example: The Twitter account of Paris Jackson was supposed to be fake for a long time because she said "Hollywood Tonigt" would not be her dad. Until the confirmation that the account is real this claim was hearsay only. And that's still the case with everything about John McClain's alleged opinion on the Cascio recordings.

You were wrong when you said "the Jackson" was the only person claiming McClain was against the songs.
 
Sorry but "Let me let go" vs "Monster" and "Keep your head up" vs "Room 2 breath" ... said it all.

There is no doubt that the voice of those Cascio's tracks is the young/goating/yelping/snorting voice of Jason "dude" Malachi.

Too many comparison, i think more than 100 or 200, shows the reality... none for MJ vs Cascios.

And there is none because it is imposible to compare the real voice of Master MJ with a young amateur singer named Edward Cupeta.

Some fans needed so hard new Mj tracks and they took those songs like water on a desert.

But, sorry, too many tracks with the young/goating/yelping/snorting voice of JM, with the same structures of his own songs (Let me let go/R2B) , same style (B2nite vs Mamacita) or (All i need vs All that you need is in you), same use of a BAD spanish (Stay/B2N vs Mamacita) and with the same guy trying to be the new MJ.

That it is my opinion since day 1 and 4ever.
 
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Posts to say such and such wins this debate does not contribute to the conversation at all and does nothing else but rile up members. Please, don't post things like that.

Please let each side continue to contribute to the thread in a meaningful way.

Thanks all of you! :)
 
You're confused, Korgnex. That's not the "list of enemies." This is:

John McClain
Cory Rooney
Rodney Jerkins
Anthony Curtis
Jennifer Batten
Charles Klapow
Karen Faye
Taj Jackson
Taryll Jackson
TJ Jackson
Jackie Jackson
Randy Jackson
Jermaine Jackson
La Toya Jackson
Katherine Jackson
Prince Jackson
Paris Jackson
Numerous Michael Jackson fans (Including Damien Shields, of course.)

You see, according to "conspiracy theorists," the Jason Malachi vocal tracks were actually recorded by Michael Jackson (even though there's no evidence of it), and all the above people are simply out to get the Cascio family because of "jealously."

Hilarious, right?

Wow my name is not on the list, some must be seeing the facts at last,

Ok maybe not based on some bloggers load of clap trap that was posted a few days ago. lol
 
I almost feel that this debate should be on hold until we find more information... this "I hear you hear" thing wont get far when we don't agree we hear the same things...


But I keep getting sucked in! lol
 
What if:

The Cascio's and Porte wrote songs, wanted MJ to do them. He never did, so they got JM in to record them. They then concluded the tracks were recorded from a time when they could 100% say he was at their house, and bingo, You have 'Michael Jackson' songs. It fits.

the songs registered 2 days after michael's death as a sound recording - so there was audio file and a "Michael Jackson" that can be credited with "performance".

so you either need to suggest that they recorded the songs with JM (after Michael left Jersey and before he died) and hold on to them hoping that Michael would die and they would make millions by releasing them after his death

or they recorded 12 songs within 2 days after Michael's death.

because even though we can't see the audio file submitted with that registration, MJ Estate - who owns partial credit due to MJ and Sony - who bought the rights can get the audio file and compare them to see if any vocals changed etc.
 
because even though we can't see the audio file submitted with that registration, MJ Estate - who owns partial credit due to MJ and Sony - who bought the rights can get the audio file and compare them to see if any vocals changed etc.

And don't you think since that "MJ songbook" content seems to be so significant the estate would have mention it in their statement that they had checked it and there's perfect match between the mentioned content and questioned songs if they checked it in the first place of course? It wouldn't surprised me if they didn't know it existed.
 
What I don't get is this:


[youtube]E82qNa0EWbA[/youtube]

Jason Malachi himself, in person, appears on youtube and says:

Hey, what's going on? This is Jason Malachi, just to clear up all the doubt, this is my song -Don't Walk Away- (which is) gonna be realeased on my debut album, April 2008.



So, when a small minority of people considered Jason's Mamacita and Let Me Let Go as Michael Jackson's songs, Jason shows up himself to clear the doubt up and even sings acappella to prove that the voice timbre we hear in the above mentioned songs is indeed his.

Now, that we have a whole MJ fan base divided, he either doesn't give a damn or is afraid that his statement "it is not me on the Cascio songs" could backfire into his face. Either way, he chose to remain silent one year after the release of Michael and I just wonder why he doesn't appear again himself to clear all the doubt up?

Jason, where are you now? Stop hiding.
 
^ WOW! That guy sounds an awful like the singer in Breaking News! It's almost as if....
 
And don't you think since that "MJ songbook" content seems to be so significant the estate would have mention it in their statement that they had checked it and there's perfect match between the mentioned content and questioned songs if they checked it in the first place of course? It wouldn't surprised me if they didn't know it existed.

so now Branca who happens to be a lawyer and employs a lot of lawyers to cover copyright issues can't think about / doesn't know to go to copyright website and type "michael jackson" and see everything they have copyright ownership? Is that even remotely realistic?

and I don't think Estate and their lawyers would be big on conspiracy and think to mention such thing on a statement. In order to say "we checked it with the copyright submission, vocals aren't changed", they need to be able to think that someone will come up with that theory and believe Cascio's had songs by an impersonator & was waiting for Michael to die to pull a scam or recorded in 2 days. It's not really a rational train of thought. also estate statement came 2 days after the streaming I'm sure they couldn't foresee all the theories that would have been written in the next year.
 
I have a great question for all of you....Do you know the working tittle of the album that Eddie and Porte wanted to release before the MJ death?.Do you know they had a complete album and they were waiting for a record deal to release it?.Tic, tac, tic, tac...By the way, on 2009 they only registered LYRICS, they created some of the song long before, 2008, and i think there is a previous register with them on that date.I think they added MJ name after his death. I think Malachi included some of his ideas after the first register on 2009 and after "This is it" movie. This info was all over the net, but was erased when the Cascio´s debate started.
 
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a question to everyone:

when you listen to the above video - and forget timbre / vibrato etc - do you think he sounds like Michael?

Enough to fool some people, yes.

Counter question, do you know anyone who sounds closer to Michael's voice and who can actually sing?
 
question 2:

listen to Malachi don't walk away album version - you can easily find it on youtube

again just focus on "sounding like Michael" criteria

- are the live versus album sound the same? does one sound more like Michael then the other?
 
Ok, i know you think it sounds "like" michael jackson. everything is going to sound "like" michael jackson. My question is, of these 2 comparisons:
http://www.box.com/s/x5ptznfnfhxte6b198b7
http://www.box.com/s/3n6t8v0lejsu307r8i4i

in which one do the 2 voices sounds MORE SIMILAR to each other? i'm not asking which ones sound the most like michael, or which one has backing by James Porte, or which one is melodyned, or ANY of that. i'm saying each comparison is comparing 2 tracks. in which comparison do the singers on the 2 tracks sound most like each other? the first one or the second one?

pretend you've never heard michael OR jason, and you're just listening to it for the first time. What would you honestly think?
To me it sounds more like Michael Jackson.

Please respect my opinion.
 
Soldier Boy was registered in copyright I believe before 2007, so how did 'MJ' record it if it was registered before 'he' recorded the songs? I'm confused.
Many artists like R.Kelly have recorded songs that were for Michael Jackson so they register them before just to be sure no legals problems happen and then if the artist like Michael Jackson like them it get's re registered with the new vocalist.
 
question 2:

listen to Malachi don't walk away album version - you can easily find it on youtube

again just focus on "sounding like Michael" criteria

- are the live versus album sound the same? does one sound more like Michael then the other?
I honestly don't think he sounds like Michael Jackson AT ALL. I've tried to listen and compare, but it doesn't work for me, lol.
 
and I don't think Estate and their lawyers would be big on conspiracy and think to mention such thing on a statement. In order to say "we checked it with the copyright submission, vocals aren't changed", they need to be able to think that someone will come up with that theory and believe Cascio's had songs by an impersonator & was waiting for Michael to die to pull a scam or recorded in 2 days. It's not really a rational train of thought. also estate statement came 2 days after the streaming I'm sure they couldn't foresee all the theories that would have been written in the next year.

What I mean is that according to the estate they have done several things to investigate the authenticity issue, like the listening sessions, musicologist expertise, calling Malachi's manager. Wouldn't one of those things that are easy and natural to do be checking it with the copyright submission. I think it would be a great argument for them that these vocals definitely existed two days after Micheal's death. Or maybe they did check it but it didn't match, no point in mentioning it then.
 
Or maybe they did check it but it didn't match, no point in mentioning it then.

that would make them knowing and willing participant and add additional lying to that they would be in huge trouble.
 
I think Frank Dileo fooled one member of the Estate/Sony and also FrankDileo helped Porte and Eddie to include the name of Mj on lyrics register on 2009, be4 Estate heard about them, for the old Porte songs registered on 2008. I think the Estate then realized frank fooled them and left him alone and out of what he was doing till those days.. I think he had powers and he was like a help for them in their new Estate of Mj but later they saw he was not good.I blame DiLeo, Friedman and Eddie/Frank. The rest were fooled. I think they will not make more mistakes on future. ;)
 
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I've never really thought that Jason resemble Michael that much. While he undoubtably sounds a bit similar to Mike, I feel like it's always easy to tell the difference. That's why I really didn't understand how people could be fooled by Mamacita in 2007. To me, it was just a random song by some average singer, that I in no way could confuse with the greatest vocalist of all time. I'm not saying this to prove anything, I just found it hard to believe how those bland and quite boring vocals could me mistaken for Michael Jackson. That's why the premiere of Breaking News last year seemed like something of a déjà vu to me. I still do not understand how anyone can believe that Breaking News is sung by Michael Jackson. Not to mention songs like Fall In Love.
 
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