Angelikson is the name of the production company and Jab Me is the publishing company. It's just like MJJ Productions and MIJAC.
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Angelikson is the name of the production company and Jab Me is the publishing company. It's just like MJJ Productions and MIJAC.
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
I have a question. Does anyone know who is the best team of forensic musicologists in the USA and who is the second best team of forensic musicologists?
love is magical
Proud Member
I don't. I've been asking the question for seven months now. The Estate feels they don't need to tell us.
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
I know they don't need to tell us, I am not asking them. But when one claims they hired the best that there is and the second best that there is, it should be a piece of cake to find those best musicologists, but apparently it is not. So how do we actually know who are the best and based on what criteria?
love is magical
Proud Member
We just don't know. Actually, I was told that a reputable musicologist usually doesnt make the type of definitive statement claimed by the estate.
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
That's why I am intrigued. You can never be THAT sure, yet they claim they are. On top of that if I want to hire their services, I can't because I don't know who they are.
love is magical
Proud Member
The best statement a musicologist can make is "these songs sound like Michael Jackson's previous recordings."
A musicologist cannot assure the songs are sung by Michael Jackson.
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
I'd actually hire audio forensics for the voice recognition rather than a musicologist. Or both. I wouldn't hire one without another.
Which is why we'll never know who the musicologists were ..
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
JMie
Guests
Frank Dileo said in his interview that people from FBI were involved. if I remember correctly.
azsummergirl
Proud Member
I believe the crack team of musicologists sony/estate hired were part of the renowned organization: "Let's Rip Off Michael's Fans, INC."
Like the people waiting for video evidence that michael sang these songs, you might have a hard time finding those musicologists--because they quite simply do not exist.
Like the people waiting for video evidence that michael sang these songs, you might have a hard time finding those musicologists--because they quite simply do not exist.
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
People from FBI? If they are forensic surely they work for the FBI as well. But working for FBI doesn't mean you are the best.
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
They probably exist, but I am afraid that those musicologists are not a third party. Why their identity is hidden if they're forensics. It is as if Tom Mesereau refused to give his name.
JMie
Guests
I didn't mean they were the best. I just thought that it could help to narrow the search
I know fans tried to contact him. I personally emailed him after this mess began begging him to communicate with the fans on this issue but he never responded.
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
Lol, I don't think it would be that easy though. We'd have to convince the Estate
As far as I am concerned, I have contacted him, but still haven't gotten any reply. I guess he doesn't want to get involved in this issue. I suppose that if such a name as Seth Riggs said anything against the Estate's and SONY's joint report, it would be considered as a slander or a libel and could end up in the court. I don't know, just a wild guess.
On the other hand, if he says anything in favor of those tracks, his reputation among some MJ's fans could also get tarnished, just as Teddy's did to the point that he got mad on his twitter, not to mention the tracks resulting in becoming infamous and not ending up as singles.
I didn't mean they were the best. I just thought that it could help to narrow the search
I understood that well. Maybe I wasn't very clear. What I meant is that from the moment you are a forensic, you are expected to work for the law enforcement, among which FBI, thus it doesn't really narrow the search on the one hand, nor does it indicate that the forensics are actually that good on the other. So, even if I narrow my research to forensics working for FBI, I doubt that there is only one team of forensics. Further on, even if I asked the FBI who is their best musicologist forensic team, I really doubt they will create competition among their civil collaborators stating who's the best.
Finally, we actually even don't know if those musicologists ever worked for FBI.
All in all, I am still confused why the Estate did not mention the names of the musicologists involved. How do we know that those musicologists had never worked before for SONY's interests, and now the Estate's?
Without the names, we will never know.
Now imagine if there is a trial and their musicologists claim it is MJ, and we hire other musicologists and our's claim it is not Michael. It would be just a neverending legal battle in which those who shout louder (or who have more money) would win the case unfortunately.
Anyway, those tests aren't 100% sure, so that's why I am curious to know who they are and kindly request from them to see the report of their findings. After all, aren't we all concerned when it comes to Michael Jackson's music, so why would they refuse to show the report. I mean, even if there are some confidential info, they could just hide those parts as confidential, but the whole report? It is too fishy IMO.
no. anyone can say "I don't think this is MJ singing". It's an opinion and protected by freedom of speech.
you know that if they did such people would be contacted, harassed and even slandered for their saying of "it's mj".
love is magical
Proud Member
love is magical
Proud Member
Make sure you guys record the duet through a PVC pipe in a shower. Oh... don't forget to press the big "it's Michael" button...
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
Seth Riggs's freedom of speech is much more compromising than fans'. These latter are not regarded as experts, despite the fact tha there are some among us. On the other hand, Seth Rigg's is much more famous than us random fans. His opinion against the musicologists' could be much more damaging to SONY/Estate and they would have grounds to sue him for slander or at least to demand him to prove what they already had "proven".
Look at Aaron's opinion and the journalist's freedom of speech when she published the interview. Now imagine Seth Rigg's vs SONY/Estate.
They would? And? What difference would that make with all others who have been contacted and harrassed? Working for the law, they are probably used to that by now. They can ignore the harrassements just like the Estate or SONY does. By the way, their contact is supposed to be known by the public, they work for the public interest, not for a private company even though a private company hired them. How do I do if I want to hire them?
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
p.s. Here are some of the forensic musicologists, as you can see their contact is nothing unusual and can easily be contacted:
Now, SONY/Estate, why is it so difficult to point out the ones who worked for you?
Forensic Musicology
For Further Information
As a public service, the AMS keeps contact information for people who offer forensic and legal services concerned with music (including appraisals and copyright infringement). The list given here is not exhaustive and not ranked; let the user beware. Names marked with an asterisk (*) are members of the American Musicological Society. In an effort to respect musicologists' privacy, e-mail addresses and telephone numbers are not given; you may contact the AMS office for further information if you like. (If you would like to be included in this list, send a note to the AMS accordingly.)
J. Marshall Bevil, Ph.D.
home.earthlink.net/~llywarch/forns.html.htm
*Kevin Byrnes
841 Stratford Ave., Elmhurst, Il 60126
Joanna Demers
Department of Music History and Literature, University of Southern California
Los Angeles, CA 90089-0851
*Murray Dineen
Department of Music, University of Ottawa
*Lawrence Ferrara, Ph.D.
Department of Music and Performing Arts, New York University
*Robert Fink
Department of Musicology, UCLA Herb Alpert School of Music, rfink@ucla.edu
*Denise Gallo, Ph.D.
Washington DC
Kent Gibson
www.forensicaudio.org
323-851-9900, Mobile 213-300-0400
3251 Oakley Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90068
kent@kentgibson.com
Arthur Gottschalk, DMA
Rice University, Houston TX
Richard King
University of Maryland
*Kim H. Kowalke
Scottsville, NY
Prof. Adam Krims
Nottingham, UK
Fredric Lieberman
Professor of Music, University of California, Santa Cruz
Santa Cruz, CA 95064
Ofc: 831-459-2309
Res: 831-425-5014
Mobile: 831-588-6072
email: gagaku@ucsc.edu
alternate email: fred.lieberman@gmail.com
website: http://artsites.ucsc.edu/faculty/lieberman/
*Melanie Lowe
Blair School of Music, Vanderbilt University, Nashville, TN
Gayle Murchison
Department of Music, Ewell Hall Room 267 PO Box 8795, Williamsburg, VA 23187-8795
Paul Nixon
Cambridge (UK)
Hank Reynolds
www.musicanalyst.com
*Eleanor Selfridge-Field
Consulting Professor, Music & Symbolic Systems, CCARH, Braun Music Center #129
541 Lasuen, M.S. 3076, Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305-3076
Steve Smolian
Frederick, MD (appraisals expert)
Alexander Stewart, Ph.D.
Music Department, University of Vermont
Tim Taylor
Department of Music, Columbia University, New York, NY 10027
*Stephen Valdez, Ph.D.
Chair, Dept. of Musicology/Ethnomusicology, School of Music, University of Georgia
250 River Road, Athens Ga 30602
*Robert Walser
Dept. of Musicology, UCLA, Los Angeles, CA 90095-1623
Now, SONY/Estate, why is it so difficult to point out the ones who worked for you?
Forensic Musicology
For Further Information
As a public service, the AMS keeps contact information for people who offer forensic and legal services concerned with music (including appraisals and copyright infringement). The list given here is not exhaustive and not ranked; let the user beware. Names marked with an asterisk (*) are members of the American Musicological Society. In an effort to respect musicologists' privacy, e-mail addresses and telephone numbers are not given; you may contact the AMS office for further information if you like. (If you would like to be included in this list, send a note to the AMS accordingly.)
J. Marshall Bevil, Ph.D.
home.earthlink.net/~llywarch/forns.html.htm
*Kevin Byrnes
841 Stratford Ave., Elmhurst, Il 60126
Joanna Demers
Department of Music History and Literature, University of Southern California
Los Angeles, CA 90089-0851
*Murray Dineen
Department of Music, University of Ottawa
*Lawrence Ferrara, Ph.D.
Department of Music and Performing Arts, New York University
*Robert Fink
Department of Musicology, UCLA Herb Alpert School of Music, rfink@ucla.edu
*Denise Gallo, Ph.D.
Washington DC
Kent Gibson
www.forensicaudio.org
323-851-9900, Mobile 213-300-0400
3251 Oakley Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90068
kent@kentgibson.com
Arthur Gottschalk, DMA
Rice University, Houston TX
Richard King
University of Maryland
*Kim H. Kowalke
Scottsville, NY
Prof. Adam Krims
Nottingham, UK
Fredric Lieberman
Professor of Music, University of California, Santa Cruz
Santa Cruz, CA 95064
Ofc: 831-459-2309
Res: 831-425-5014
Mobile: 831-588-6072
email: gagaku@ucsc.edu
alternate email: fred.lieberman@gmail.com
website: http://artsites.ucsc.edu/faculty/lieberman/
*Melanie Lowe
Blair School of Music, Vanderbilt University, Nashville, TN
Gayle Murchison
Department of Music, Ewell Hall Room 267 PO Box 8795, Williamsburg, VA 23187-8795
Paul Nixon
Cambridge (UK)
Hank Reynolds
www.musicanalyst.com
*Eleanor Selfridge-Field
Consulting Professor, Music & Symbolic Systems, CCARH, Braun Music Center #129
541 Lasuen, M.S. 3076, Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305-3076
Steve Smolian
Frederick, MD (appraisals expert)
Alexander Stewart, Ph.D.
Music Department, University of Vermont
Tim Taylor
Department of Music, Columbia University, New York, NY 10027
*Stephen Valdez, Ph.D.
Chair, Dept. of Musicology/Ethnomusicology, School of Music, University of Georgia
250 River Road, Athens Ga 30602
*Robert Walser
Dept. of Musicology, UCLA, Los Angeles, CA 90095-1623
Graf
Proud Member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2009
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- 3,981
- Points
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Then why did they reveal Bruce Swieden and the other names of people who supposedly said it's Michael? Wouldn't these people worried about things like that?
They mentioned plenty of specific names in the statement but they chose not to reveal the 'top' musicologists name..Whether that was the decision by the executors or a request of the musicologist, it's an odd thing to do IMO. If they think it's 100% Michael then why be afraid of being 'harassed and slandered'? ...To me, that may indicate that this reaction by fans was expected then..Yet another odd aspect of insisting to include these songs.
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
I am also bothered by the fact that musicologists usually deal with the copyright infringement rather than with voice recognition. So, as I said earlier an audio recognition forensic would be probably more useful in our case.
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
love is magical
Proud Member
True. A musicologist simply cannot tell for sure whether it's MJ singing or not. If the musicologist's statement is convincing enough to make the Estate believe the songs are genuine, then I really want to know how the musicologists based their conclusions on.
What methods they use?
Have they listened to all of Michael's prior recordings? Where can they find the similarities?
love is magical
Proud Member
Isn't that the case? :rofl:
love is magical;3432914 said:
that could be true for you but let's not act like everyone acts like that.
On this thread we have seen parody videos some tasteful and some not. and I have seen Teddy being cursed out on twitter, Cascio's being called every name under the sun. Even I was harassed in multiple places due to my opinion. so let's not act like everyone is being respectful and trying to learn.
and knowing who they were probably wouldn't make any difference. they would be hired by sony and estate and their reports would have been proprietorial information that they wouldn't be able to indulge on without the authorization of sony and estate.
BUMPER SNIPPET;3432927 said:
every human has the same freedom of speech and him being an expert doesn't say that he can't have an opinion. Many musicians gave their opinion one way or another. Seth Riggs could do the same as well. And he couldn't be sued for slander for his opinion. Being an expert, or his opinion being "damaging" wouldn't give them any grounds for slander. Has any of the Jackson's sued for slander? Has any of the musicians that said they don't think it's Michael is sued for slander? Has any one of you being sued for slander? No. Like I said there was nothing stopping Seth Riggs to give an opinion one way or another.
Tsukiji;3432940 said:
it means that those people have agreed to put their names on the statement. some didn't see this part "The Cascio tracks were also played for two very prominent persons in the music industry who played crucial roles in Michael’s career." who these 2 people are is also never mentioned. so it seems like these 2 people didn't want their names to be out in the public.
one thing that you are forgetting is or was the possibility of the lawsuit and how those musicologists would become the expert witnesses. Protecting their names could be due to not show their hand and to also protect that these witnesses aren't tampered with (for example with attacks and threats)