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Michael - The Great Album Debate

love is magical said:
. . . I can't say for sure whether I'll buy the next album. I'm not trying to blackmail them. But, if the song Soldier Boy is to be included, then count me out. This is how much I cannot stand the song . . .
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That is a choice that you have to make but when would you expect any type of release of Michael's music if everyone took such an attitude.

I remember how much smack Michael took when people were unable to classify his sound as totally R&B. Of course, everyone has a favorite and some that they don't like. I'm thinking about the time that a radio personality stated that he didn't like or really care for the song Off the Wall (this is a huge Michael fan) and everyone else in the studio could not believe it. But, guess what? He didn't feel the need to write off an entire album. Heck, I've got my pick of songs that I think are the best of all times and the not my favorites. But, that is okay. I can simply talk about what I like and don't like without the drama of the statements (sorry about the word drama but I can't think of a better term). This is the type of extreme statements that I am talking about. Fans complain about how the media treats everything with Michael's name on it from one extreme to the next but I'm not so sure if we shouldn't start looking closer to home in terms of fixing that problem.

I know based on Michael's on words that he was such a perfectionist. But, at this point, I have to wonder how much of that was internal and how much was from people setting these impossible lines for him and now for the Estate that everything has to be 100% perfect for all. While people may say that is not what they intend or mean personally, it is what it is shaping up to be (maybe on some subconscious level).

Michael left some wonderful work that still hasn't been shared. At what point do people just enjoy it whether it is destined to be a favorite or not.

People don't know what all Michael did or did not record. So people can talk about their gut feelings and whatever else but at this point there is no undisputed fact that Michael did not record anything with the Cascios. And as in our court of law, it really is up to those making the accusations to shoulder the burden of proof and not those being accused (in response to all those saying where is the Estate's proof or the Cascios' proof such as a video of Michael recording). I am sure that Michael himself is thankful for that position when it comes to accusations.
 
In "Take me away", you can feel the fan's love for MJ.
In the Cascio tracks, you can feel... umm... doubt.
 
^^ Exactly, Bumper....Even the animation is pretty cool and way better than the official videos that have been released postumously lol

awww...I love seeing the debate between Bumper and Ivy...it's been awhile lol
 
ivy said:
@Bumper

add to that search "public figure". you'll see that any defamation of public figure would require "actual malice". in this example it would require these people to know that the vocals are Michael's but yet go around saying they are fake.

Unless that's is present there wouldn't be any grounds for any slander lawsuit. So I'm still standing by my opinion and say that there's no possibility for any slander lawsuit against anyone.
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People just don't sue for slander that easily, it attracts negative publicity. Nonetheless, no one seems to be willing to take the risk, otherwise how else do you explain all this heavy silence?
 
Arklove said:
. . . Which is great because the less people know about these songs, the better...Lack of promotion on Sony's part have strongly to do with this as well, obviously lol
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Part of the problem is simply the fickle buying population at this time. No matter how wonderful and talented some are, they are only going to get so much sales and promotion in this current market and that is not limited to Michael; that is really what seems to be an industry problem in my opinion. While Beyonce has the number 1 album, so far the singles haven't burned up the chart in the flash that they have in the past with her. And that isn't because of lack of promotion. With Michael, it will always be difficult for the type of promotion that I think some are looking for because he is not here to do it himself. Michael was a package deal with his music. As much as people loved that music, there was something about the fact that he was right there with it. That is not going to happen now--sadly.
 
classic said:
Part of the problem is simply the fickle buying population at this time. No matter how wonderful and talented some are, they are only going to get so much sales and promotion in this current market and that is not limited to Michael; that is really what seems to be an industry problem in my opinion. While Beyonce has the number 1 album, so far the singles haven't burned up the chart in the flash that they have in the past with her. And that isn't because of lack of promotion. With Michael, it will always be difficult for the type of promotion that I think some are looking for because he is not here to do it himself. Michael was a package deal with his music. As much as people loved that music, there was something about the fact that he was right there with it. That is not going to happen now--sadly.
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Well, yeah, I can agree with you here...However, you have to admit that Sony were lazy with promotion; it's like they didn't even try! You'd think that with Michael being gone, they'd step up the promotion to the max, 'cuz, well, Michael's not here anymore to promote...Why wasn't the album as promoted as say, TII? That was promoted to the hilt, yet the album gets the shaft? I just don't get it..Either way, like I said, the less the album was promoted, the better...the less people will know and hear these songs...
 
Arklove said:
Well, yeah, I can agree with you here...However, you have to admit that Sony were lazy with promotion; it's like they didn't even try! You'd think that with Michael being gone, they'd step up the promotion to the max, 'cuz, well, Michael's not here anymore to promote...Why wasn't the album as promoted as say, TII? That was promoted to the hilt, yet the album gets the shaft? I just don't get it..Either way, like I said, the less the album was promoted, the better...the less people will know and hear these songs...
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:D I would be willing to admit such with the album promotion (because you are right they promoted the heck out of TII!--not any complaints on my part, though) if you give that probably, at least in my opinion, Michael's huge promotions in the past had everything to do with Michael himself and his vision versus Sony's.
 
classic said:
:D I would be willing to admit such with the album promotion (because you are right they promoted the heck out of TII!--not any complaints on my part, though) if you give that probably, at least in my opinion, Michael's huge promotions in the past had everything to do with Michael himself and his vision versus Sony's.
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Well, of course...I mean, I (and likely others) don't expect Michael Jackson-style promotion...That's just reality and I understand that...But, why the shabby promotion for the album, and great promotion for TII? I guess they can be quite useless if they choose to be lol
 
classic said:
That is a choice that you have to make but when would you expect any type of release of Michael's music if everyone took such an attitude.
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Yes, that's a choice I made. And, I didn't force my opinion to others. I stand by it. If Soldier Boy is the type of posthumous release that they are going to release in the future, then I would rather having no posthumous release. I'm perfectly content with the catalogue Michael approved and released in his life time.

classic said:
I remember how much smack Michael took when people were unable to classify his sound as totally R&B. Of course, everyone has a favorite and some that they don't like. I'm thinking about the time that a radio personality stated that he didn't like or really care for the song Off the Wall (this is a huge Michael fan) and everyone else in the studio could not believe it. But, guess what? He didn't feel the need to write off an entire album. Heck, I've got my pick of songs that I think are the best of all times and the not my favorites. But, that is okay. I can simply talk about what I like and don't like without the drama of the statements (sorry about the word drama but I can't think of a better term). This is the type of extreme statements that I am talking about. Fans complain about how the media treats everything with Michael's name on it from one extreme to the next but I'm not so sure if we shouldn't start looking closer to home in terms of fixing that problem.
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So, if I'm not going to buy a future Michael Jackson product, I'm a drama queen who is comparable to the biased media critics?

I don't know how many times I said that before. I understand how different people have different perspectives. To me, I cannot support misrepresentation or mistreatment of Michael's artistic legacy. I would rather buy another copy of Invincible than buying a copy of posthumous release with songs that I deem sub-par. I don't want to send a signal to Sony that fans would buy anything with the name Michael Jackson attached to it.

I don't judge the people who believe the songs are genuine. I appreciate the same courtesy back.


classic said:
I know based on Michael's on words that he was such a perfectionist. But, at this point, I have to wonder how much of that was internal and how much was from people setting these impossible lines for him and now for the Estate that everything has to be 100% perfect for all. While people may say that is not what they intend or mean personally, it is what it is shaping up to be (maybe on some subconscious level).
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Let's agree to disagree. People are not demanding perfection from the Estate. Far from it. If so, people would not support HMH, Hollywood Tonight or Another Day. Many here realize Michael is gone. No future release is going to be perfect. All we are asking are songs that can be upheld to the musical integrity that Michael built.

classic said:
Michael left some wonderful work that still hasn't been shared. At what point do people just enjoy it whether it is destined to be a favorite or not.
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Not every work of Michael has to be shared. Some people justify their desire for "new" music by saying having pieces of Michael is better than no Michael at all. I'm of the opinion that some works should stay in the vault. Who can say who's right and who's wrong? Again, it's different perspectives. Different people have different way of honoring such unprecedented legacy. It's a very tricky situation and one that should be handled with upmost care and respect.

classic said:
People don't know what all Michael did or did not record. So people can talk about their gut feelings and whatever else but at this point there is no undisputed fact that Michael did not record anything with the Cascios. And as in our court of law, it really is up to those making the accusations to shoulder the burden of proof and not those being accused (in response to all those saying where is the Estate's proof or the Cascios' proof such as a video of Michael recording). I am sure that Michael himself is thankful for that position when it comes to accusations.
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Okay, I can't speak for others. I can only speak for myself. I have never ever accused the Cascios of any fraud. Look through my posting history and find a post from me that I made such accusation. I have doubts, but I don't wrongfully accuse others. So, please don't think all doubters are casting stones at Eddie Cascio.

Raising question and looking for more transparency are not the same as accusing people.

Even if the Cascio tracks are 100% genuine, I do not support such over-processing and manipulation of Michael's demos.
 
Arklove said:
^^ Exactly, Bumper....Even the animation is pretty cool and way better than the official videos that have been released postumously lol

awww...I love seeing the debate between Bumper and Ivy...it's been awhile lol
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I know. I miss those exchanges. :shifty:

It's actually very stimulating to see two very intelligent people debating with each other with mutual respect. People with different opinions can get along. And, neither one of them has been condescending to other.

Love you Bumpy. :wub:

Love you Ivy. :wub:
 
Mystery behind the "best" musicologists, why they were hired and who they are makes me think of:

[youtube]OXRi28W-ENY[/youtube]
 
love is magical said:
I know. I miss those exchanges. :shifty:

It's actually very stimulating to see two very intelligent people debating with each other with mutual respect. People with different opinions can get along. And, neither one of them has been condescending to other.

Love you Bumpy. :wub:

Love you Ivy. :wub:
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Thanks Love Is Magical, it's flattering, but I am not intelligent, I am stupid. I can't even answer the question why after billions of years after Big Bang I am here typing on my laptop. What for? lol
 
Who's in the mood for some Jason Malachi pretending to be Michael Jackson?

Eh?

Eh?

Anyone?

Anyone?

...

No?

Okay...
 
Ahhhhhh Jason Malachi's pictures of him with that evil glare-looking face and his arm stretched out. It gives me the creeps every time. :lol:

He could be smiling and looking like a nice decent guy instead of like he wants to suck out your soul, just sayin'.

62808481.png


OH GOD!!!

Hide yo kids! Hide yo wife!

The King of Jean Material, Jason Malachi.
 
Aniram said:
Ahhhhhh Jason Malachi's pictures of him with that evil glare-looking face and his arm stretched out. It gives me the creeps every time. :lol:

He could be smiling and looking like a nice decent guy instead of like he wants to suck out your soul, just sayin'.

62808481.png


OH GOD!!!

Hide yo kids! Hide yo wife!

The King of Jean Material, Jason Malachi.
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He looks like a fatter version of Enrique Iglesias...



:naughty:
 
What a fashion faux pas, Jason...You don't wear a jean jacket AND a pair of jeans at the same time (unless of course, it's 1987)..:nono: especially with that look on your face :D
 
The photo actually seems like he's threatening us. If anyone is too offended by his image I will do all I can to remove it.
 
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