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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Umm, in case you didn't know, a language IS music/singing!

Now how is it related to biology or psychology has nothing to do with the voice timbre.
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Obviously you dont know anything about bio/psych, ok heres a little lesson, Speech and speech recognition is taken care of in Brocas and Wernickes areas in the left Temporal/Frontal (depending on the research) lobes, however, Musical harmonies, pitch and timbre are all part of the Right temporal lobe. Why is this significant? well firstly having a job such as yours in LANGUAGE does not make you any better at discerning the similarities and differences in a singing voice than anyone else here, and secondly EVERYONES brain is structured differently, so signals from the Primary Auditory Cortex that are sent off by the Cascio tracks, WILL sound different to everyone who hears it, and that is why we are not qualified to state whether or not it is him by comparing moderate quality over processed marking vocals to high quality full vocals
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

TPIMaster said:
Cute, but wrong. I'll upload this again:

http://soundcloud.com/tpimaster/keeping-a-line-2-1

Exact same vibrato. Yet the Jason Malachi song (an outtake from his first album) was recorded and done before Melodyne's feature of changing individual notes existed. (It dates between 2000-2004 and Melodyne Direct Note Access was first available in Melodyne Editor/Studio released on November 16, 2009, according to Wikipedia.) So definitely no Melodyne on that. Now, how come they match when Melodyne didn't exist?

Explain to me aswell why they would intentionally fuck up the vibrato. Teddy tried brushing off the vibrato as some sort of side-effect from "moving the voice up" or something. If you work with Melodyne, you should know that changing the pitch of a note does not change the vibrato. Now why would Teddy say this then? Or was he lying, trying to find another excuse that would make the average fan go "oh I don't know that technical jargon, so he's probably right". I've seen tons of people on comment sections on YouTube videos or elsewhere defending the vocals because "Teddy said he used Melodyne on them".
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Ok, computer Vibratos were done for years before Melodyne, just Melodyne is able to make it sound less computerised, and you forget, Teddy did not Melodyne the Cascio tracks, the Cascios did, and the acapella is that very edited track, unfortunatly they dont have the raw unedited ones, possibly because Michael may have not expressed an interest in recording them anymore
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

larry141094 said:
Obviously you dont know anything about bio/psych, ok heres a little lesson, Speech and speech recognition is taken care of in Brocas and Wernickes areas in the left Temporal/Frontal (depending on the research) lobes, however, Musical harmonies, pitch and timbre are all part of the Right temporal lobe. Why is this significant? well firstly having a job such as yours in LANGUAGE does not make you any better at discerning the similarities and differences in a singing voice than anyone else here, and secondly EVERYONES brain is structured differently, so signals from the Primary Auditory Cortex that are sent off by the Cascio tracks, WILL sound different to everyone who hears it, and that is why we are not qualified to state whether or not it is him by comparing moderate quality over processed marking vocals to high quality full vocals
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Thank you, you just said that you --with the little lesson of neurolinguistics-- are unqualified to determine whether it is MJ's voice or not.

And how is that related to the fact that you concluded it is Michael singing?

Let me remind you that every fan easily recognizes Michael on poor recordings. The only vocals where they don't recognize him are on the Cascio tracks.

By the way you also missed my point. Every language has a specific frequency. Even American and British, despite being the same language, have completely different frequencies (are sung/voiced differently). A qualified person with trained ears can detect those frequencies. Some people cannot, because after puberty their brain has already been shaped in such a way that they are unable to properly hear some sounds or frequencies if not trained before, during and after puberty. Those people have generally dificulties to acquire the accent of the newly learned language, hence heavy foreign accent.
996.gif

As you can see, a Russian speaker will have less difficulties to hear sounds and learn a language than for example a French speaker.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Thank you, you just said that you --with the little lesson of neurolinguistics-- are unqualified to determine whether it is MJ's voice or not.

And how is that related to the fact that you concluded it is Michael singing?

Let me remind you that every fan easily recognizes Michael on poor recordings. The only vocals where they don't recognize him are on the Cascio tracks.

By the way you also missed my point. Every language has a specific frequency. Even American and British, despite being the same language, have completely different frequencies (are sung/voiced differently). A qualified person with trained ears can detect those frequencies. Some people cannot, because after puberty their brain has already been shaped in such a way that they are unable to properly hear some sounds or frequencies if not trained before, during and after puberty. Those people have generally dificulties to acquire the accent of the newly learned language, hence heavy foreign accent.
996.gif

As you can see, a Russian speaker will have less difficulties to hear sounds and learn a language than for example a French speaker.
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No i got the point, problem is you specialise in LANGUAGE, so yeah that is actually different, One thing from leaked demos we have already heard, is that they were recorded in a studio, they were well into Michael recording albums, and hence his voice was up to scratch and the demos were virtually left untouched, i stated in my posts why i think its michael, and it has nothing to do with what i hear (as i am unable to make a fair judgment that way)
 
larry141094;3384461 said:
Ok, computer Vibratos were done for years before Melodyne, just Melodyne is able to make it sound less computerised, and you forget, Teddy did not Melodyne the Cascio tracks, the Cascios did, and the acapella is that very edited track, unfortunatly they dont have the raw unedited ones, possibly because Michael may have not expressed an interest in recording them anymore
Click to expand...

So now you're saying that they both used software to screw the vibrato. Okay. And no, the Cascios did NOT use Melodyne on it, Teddy did. Here's a direct quote from Teddy:

“But because he’s not with us he cannot give us new vocals. What we did was utilize the Melodyne (technology) to get him in key,” Riley says. “With the Melodyne we actually move the stuff up, which is the reason why some of the vibrato sounds a little off or processed, over-processed. We truly apologize for that happening, but you are still hearing the true Michael Jackson.”
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

larry141094 said:
No i got the point, problem is you specialise in LANGUAGE, so yeah that is actually different, One thing from leaked demos we have already heard, is that they were recorded in a studio, they were well into Michael recording albums, and hence his voice was up to scratch and the demos were virtually left untouched, i stated in my posts why i think its michael, and it has nothing to do with what i hear (as i am unable to make a fair judgment that way)
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Your ears MUST tell you if you hear usual Michael or not. Now, are you going to trust what your ears instinctively tell you or are you going to trust what officials tell you without providing a slightest documented proof is a personal thing.

If you however do hear usual Michael, then automatically your ears would tell you that he sounds exactly the same as in this or that song, which means that you would be able to point out which parts of other songs sound the same waht you hear on the Cascio tracks. Point it out, I'll record it and put side aside and we'll judge if it sounds same or different.
 
TPIMaster;3384472 said:
So now you're saying that they both used software to screw the vibrato. Okay. And no, the Cascios did NOT use Melodyne on it, Teddy did. Here's a direct quote from Teddy:

“But because he’s not with us he cannot give us new vocals. What we did was utilize the Melodyne (technology) to get him in key,” Riley says. “With the Melodyne we actually move the stuff up, which is the reason why some of the vibrato sounds a little off or processed, over-processed. We truly apologize for that happening, but you are still hearing the true Michael Jackson.”
Click to expand...
So, eh, I wonder why Teddy didn't use his "vibrato melodyning" on HT?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

God Ive missed this thread. Bumper, you continue to make me laugh and nod in agreement!


Love your sig! Cascio Tracks= DA FUCK?!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Well yesterday i looked at some comparisions between the Casico Tracks and Jason Malachi, and i finally have a REASONABLE DOUBT that michael is on the tracks. I no longer hear him on the tracks. What puzzles me is why would they make up non-Michael tracks on a MJ ALBUM?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Your ears MUST tell you if you hear usual Michael or not. Now, are you going to trust what your ears instinctually tell you or are you going to trust what officials tell you without providing a slightest documented proof is a personal thing.

If you however do hear usual Michael, then automatically your ears would tell you that he sounds exactly the same as in this or that song, which means that you would be able to point out which parts of other songs sound the same waht you hear on the Cascio tracks. Point it out, I'll record it and put side aside and we'll judge if it sounds same or different.
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Fixed that for you.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Billyjeanplxiv said:
Well yesterday i looked at some comparisions between the Casico Tracks and Jason Malachi, and i finally have a REASONABLE DOUBT that michael is on the tracks. I no longer hear him on the tracks. What puzzles me is why would they make up non-Michael tracks on a MJ ALBUM?
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Different possible answers.

The most probable that I see is an attempt to sell us similar vocals in the future (easily recordable by an imposter) which ultimately can bring money ad vitam aeternam.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Ok, my instincts, as far as i can HEAR, BN and Monster don't sound like him, KYHU does though, but to be honest with you, im happy with Teddy's explanation because it makes sense, unless there's proof otherwise, the songs are him.

Thats just how i am
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

larry141094 said:
Ok, my instincts, as far as i can HEAR, BN and Monster don't sound like him, KYHU does though, but to be honest with you, im happy with Teddy's explanation because it makes sense, unless there's proof otherwise, the songs are him.

Thats just how i am
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Ok, I appreciate your honesty.

And I'll be honest with you saying that to my ears KYHU sounds very similar to Michael. I already stated that before. However, when compared with some Jason's songs, KYHU sounds more like Jason than MJ. And from a logical point of view, it is always easier to imitater a slower song than a faster one. I already posted an imitator of George Michael's "Jesus to a child", which is a slow song and the imitator amazingly sounded the same as George Michael put side aside.

Here is Jesus to a child, listen and tell me if it isn't amazing how the imitator (singing live without any studio effect!) sounds almost exactly as George Michael. However I doubt that this same imitator would be able to sound exactly the same as George Michael on a faster song such as "Monkey"

[youtube]ULkD7ckrhUc[/youtube]
[youtube]7Nl-wVXB3Fg[/youtube]
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Ok, I appreciate your honesty.

And I'll be honest with you saying that to my ears KYHU sounds very similar to Michael. I already stated that before. However, when compared with some Jason's songs, KYHU sounds more like Jason than MJ. And from a logical point of view, it is always easier to imitater a slower song than a faster one. I already posted an imitator of George Michael's "Jesus to a child", which is a slow song and the imitator amazingly sounded the same as George Michael put side aside.

Here is Jesus to a child, listen and tell me if it isn't amazing how the imitator (singing live without any studio effect!) sounds almost exactly as George Michael. However I doubt that this same imitator would be able to sound exactly the same as George Michael on a faster song such as "Monkey"

[youtube]ULkD7ckrhUc[/youtube]
[youtube]7Nl-wVXB3Fg[/youtube]
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Its funny, because both sound nothing like Georgie boy to me, but thats probably because i only really know 2 george michael songs
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

double post
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

larry141094 said:
Its funny, because both sound nothing like Georgie boy to me, but thats probably because i only really know 2 george michael songs
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Umm the second song IS a genuine song and official remix by Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

larry141094 said:
Ok, my instincts, as far as i can HEAR, BN and Monster don't sound like him, KYHU does though, but to be honest with you, im happy with Teddy's explanation because it makes sense, unless there's proof otherwise, the songs are him.

Thats just how i am
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But it doesn't make sense. "Moving stuff up" doesn't change the vibrato. Teddy claims it does.

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Controversy)?p=3370793&viewfull=1#post3370793
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@Mundy, you are a singer aren't you? And a Michael's fan. Do you detect MJ's voice at all in my last link or is it completely alien to your ears?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Last link doesn't work, Bumpy.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I though it was just me. A lot of the soundcloud links posted here don't work for me. Can you upload it again?
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

How come it works with me?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Ouch, honestly it's very hard for me to tell. But I can sort of hear a raspier husk Michael is more known for when he says "me". Not to say it's him, but I think this is one of the better moments or it could be Michael, I don't know.

I'd have to hear a comparison side by side again because isolated like that it's difficult for me to tell. Just being honest, my ears are slightly confused and feel assaulted hearing that.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram , this is the part that tells me that it is not MJ's voice at all. I isolated this little phrase on purpose, because not only the husk, but neither the intonation nor the timbre are Michael's at all. This was one of my huuuge WTF moment when I first heard the song!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'll admit it sounds very awkward to me, very strained. Gives me a headache, Monster does that to me. The vocal just makes you feel the struggle in the effort to sing it and it hurts your head.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Aniram said:
I'll admit it sounds very awkward to me, very strained. Gives me a headache, Monster does that to me. The vocal just makes you feel the struggle in the effort to sing it and it hurts your head.
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Set aside the timbre and the weird intonation which are completely different from Michael's, this husk is all but effortless. It gives impression that the guy is not sitting in the shower as suggested by the Cascios, but in the toilet and singing while sh*tting.
 
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